It Is Important to Have Legendary-Only Content
- Thread starter Drachmor
- Start date
FaceDancer
Olde Wurm
I was never excited by the fact that critters are just scaled up for epic and legendary content.
If I were designer for a day... there would be a whole range of creature levels in epic and legendary content.
Traveling through a forest area and getting assaulted by wolves should be a nuisance, not a threat to higher level parties. Better yet institute a morale check for creatures that are a much lower level (or something akin to that like a fear check) and have them react appropriately to a party that gives off an aura of power (cower and/or skitter off). Wolves should only be heroic unless it's a VERY special wolf...
Epic and legendary quest versions should have additional level appropriate encounters (not scaled) that appear, and even better, additional content added to them (locked areas not accessible until you are level appropriate).
Epic Gianthold at least threw in some dragons appearing in the wilderness which I thought was great.
If I were designer for a day... there would be a whole range of creature levels in epic and legendary content.
Traveling through a forest area and getting assaulted by wolves should be a nuisance, not a threat to higher level parties. Better yet institute a morale check for creatures that are a much lower level (or something akin to that like a fear check) and have them react appropriately to a party that gives off an aura of power (cower and/or skitter off). Wolves should only be heroic unless it's a VERY special wolf...
Epic and legendary quest versions should have additional level appropriate encounters (not scaled) that appear, and even better, additional content added to them (locked areas not accessible until you are level appropriate).
Epic Gianthold at least threw in some dragons appearing in the wilderness which I thought was great.
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Owlbear
Well-known member
SSG can't do Legendary only content. It's too expensive to only design new quest content for a small group that stays at cap. DDO is designed for the TR train and to make more players happy they need to make quests available for more level ranges. Most DDO players are in Heroic content. The more players that can play the new content is more sales. SSG needs more sales to keep development going. Legendary only content is just not financially responsible.
Phaedra
Well-known member
Counterpoint: Nothing we have done after level 20 has been more Epic or Legendary than Shroud and Shavarath/ToD.
For me the feeling is found in the VoN chain, for some reason :3 perfectly Epic, anyway.
Couldn't resist.
Anyways Owlbear, SSG by this time has already addressed this long before raising the cap. IMO YES they will have Epic/Legendary only content. Maybe not this year, but it;s in the works, I'd bank on it
Owlbear
Well-known member
Might do like some raids or single quests Legendary only but I doubt it will happend for most content packs. Might see some Epic + Legendary content though. But don't expect much Legendary only content besides raids.
DDO is just not an MMO where most players stay at cap for endgame.
Phaedra
Well-known member
I think it's because of the build-up/payoff (Also if you were playing DDO in 2006, and VoN was the endgame).
kmoustakas
Scourge of Xaos
I'm so tired of fighting legendary rats.
At the very least, they should make quests heroic level 20 legendary level 38
paddymaxson
Deliberately obtuse
I don't see the issue really....if you feel like "this content is too epic for heroic content" then just don't do the heroic version, DDO's not a particularly immersive game, I'm not sure how having an option you have no use for it immersion breaking.
DDO's expansions are already kind of sparse on content so I don't really want to also have said content only have 1 version
I wouldn't be against having epic/legendary rather than heroic/legendary as it'd be nice to have more epic levelling options but I assume there's technical snags to that due to the quest entry window always having heroic in 1 tab and Epic or legendary in the other.
I'd also like to see more changes between heroic and legendary though, like Three Barrel Cove where they're massively different quests
DDO's expansions are already kind of sparse on content so I don't really want to also have said content only have 1 version
I wouldn't be against having epic/legendary rather than heroic/legendary as it'd be nice to have more epic levelling options but I assume there's technical snags to that due to the quest entry window always having heroic in 1 tab and Epic or legendary in the other.
I'd also like to see more changes between heroic and legendary though, like Three Barrel Cove where they're massively different quests
Phaedra
Well-known member
It's exclusively the opposite problem. "This content is in no way epic."
We're fighting rats, street thugs, the occasional crazed cultist, etc. with characters who should be setting up domains of control in the outer planes, or facing demigods on even footing. Throwing down with a Red Wizard should be a roflstomp in the PC's favor by level 25, let alone 34. We're working with power levels equivalent to the Sorcerer Kings, or at least the settings' named mages (Tenser, Mordenkainen, Otiluke, Bigby, Evard, Elmnister). Vecna's official 3.5 level is 20wiz/20clr/divine rank 10, so barring deific ascension (and DDO's scuffed ruleset) we should be closing in on that level of power.
The point is, Legendary characters should be contending with Legendary threats, or pursuing their own ascension or domain, not killing rats in a university basement.
Sarlona Raiding
Well-known member
What you are describing is the Illithid Invasion.
I would think SSG has data on how frequently those quests are run and if they are more/less popular.
I would think SSG has data on how frequently those quests are run and if they are more/less popular.
Phaedra
Well-known member
The Illithid Invasion, minus the throwaway "Special Event" nature of the story.
Even if we get 14 quests out of an expansion, when they aren't tied to anything we care about as players, let alone anything our characters care about, there's no real impact. Maybe nothing feels epic after the 100th time you run it, but SSG isn't even trying.
That's literally the design of the game. If you don't like reincarnation, you don't have to do it, but what else is there to do, but repeat things you've already done?
Owlbear
Well-known member
The problem with this is you can't fill a whole quest and zone with only Legendary enemy monsters. That would turn any Legendary or iconic monster into just one of the many mobs. And it is very hard to fill a quest that is designed to have certain enemies that fit into the world lore wise to give it a total makeover with different types of enemies who maybe not even naturally/lore-wise live in those area's. I hate it when DND games just have random monsters on maps that aren't even their natural environment. It takes you out of the immersion of being in that world when you run into things that don't belong there.
I agree though that a lot of Epic/Legendary versions of Heroic quests could use some more variety with more Epic/Legendary monsters in stead of the same rats and guards all over again. Would be nice if they felt a bit more Epic.
voenixa121
Well-known member
Menace of the Underdark did this very well for epic. Should be possible for legendary as well.
Also could take a step away from the huge blobs of enemies. Larmodia felt silly with thousands of graverobbers and an asylum with more orderlies than patients. Every one of them level 40 or higher.
You have an interesting point about the immersion not really mattering. I could see that - just run legendary-feeling stuff in heroic, or vice-versa.
Personally, I don’t think it should be like that, but even if it is… another problem imo is simply the fact of the entire Legendary quest range just being repeats of heroic quests. So it’s a statement on variety in addition to just tone for me.
