Kali's Dark Apostate/ Enlightened Spirit HYBRID SWF Melee/Caster build

[Kalibano]

Weapon critical profile section updated to include:

> breakdowns of the threat range and multiplier​

> average additional base damage %​

- for weapon crit profile (after feats/compentence bonuses applied)​

- for crit profile boosts (e.g. on 19-20 rolls)​

Hope this extra info is helpful.

 

[Frantik]

There's a number of variations to this theme, because it's DDO! I like [chaotic neutral] Shadar-Kai (rogue 1) 18 Dark Apostate 1 FvS; bags you trapping skills, chains and displacement (and debuff) from race. 18 AP into SDK for 2nd chain and Assassin's Mark, 12 AP (min) into Falconry for WIS to hit/dmg, 4 into War Soul for Trance, leaving (basic) 46 AP left (plus any extras) which I spend most into War Priest (but at least 8 into DA for the imbue +1). Coupled with Sun Domain it provides a nice platform for a solid support build. If you have a number of racial AP then splasing at least 11 AP into Feywark is very nice (EDIT or spend more into Falconry etc).

 

[Kalibano]

There's a number of variations to this theme, because it's DDO! I like [chaotic neutral] Shadar-Kai (rogue 1) 18 Dark Apostate 1 FvS; bags you trapping skills, chains and displacement (and debuff) from race. 18 AP into SDK for 2nd chain and Assassin's Mark, 12 AP (min) into Falconry for WIS to hit/dmg, 4 into War Soul for Trance, leaving (basic) 46 AP left (plus any extras) which I spend most into War Priest (but at least 8 into DA for the imbue +1). Coupled with Sun Domain it provides a nice platform for a solid support build. If you have a number of racial AP then splasing at least 11 AP into Feywark is very nice.

Sounds like an awesome build, thanks a bunch for sharing it here!

 

[Kalibano]

U66 changes (updated in the forums and DDOBuilder file)
No major changes required for this build.

> The key active changes I made were:

• Primal Avatar:
  • as of U66, the Primal Avatar T2 spell 'Reborn in Fire' no longer has the T1 Epic Strike as a pre-requisite
  • as this build only uses the Divine Crusader epic strike, I swapped the PA T1 epic strike for T1 Rejuvenation Cocoon

> Swapped Machrotecnic's T3 Doublestrike (1 rank) for Primal Avatar's T3 'At its Core'​

• Since this build uses Reborn in Fire frequently (both for dealing damage and support healing the frontline), this change doubles the damage output of the spell, while giving short bursts of defensiveness (25% uncapped dodge for 4 secs, every 20 secs), which is valuable for a frontline melee build like this.
• Machrotech's Doublestrike is the next on the list to acquire, once more ED points become available.

> The key passive changes were all positive:

• Divine Crusader
  • Core Abilities now grant +25 Hit Points.
  • Core 4 damage now correctly scales with Melee/Ranged Power.

• Machrotechnic
  • Rune Arm Use now allows you to use highest of INT/WIS/CHA for Rune Arm DCs

With the small changes above, the build remains good to go as is Enjoy!
.

 

[Kalibano]

Update: Magic of Myth Drannor Ultimate Bundle
An additional racial tome has been added to the build, bringing the total number of heroic action points to 84.
Images updated: Heroic trees + My preferred Quickbar layout

• Tainted Scholar (+1 point spent, new total 1):
  • C1: Tainted Spellcasting

What I would have liked to get with this was...​

> Dark Apostate: T4 'Enhanced Curse' (2 APs)​

OR​

> Warpriest: T5 'Divine Intervention' (2 APs)​

​

... but either option requires 2 extra APs, so in the meantime, the best choices seemed either...​

> Tainted Scholar: C1 'Tainted Spellcasting', for extra spell power​

OR​

> Dark Apostate: T4 'Dark Judgement', for extra survivability via temp hit points​

... I went with the former.​

---

This seems the perfect opportunity to migrate my DDOBuilder files from version 1 to the new version 2, because:

• I will have to update every single build in my repository to include 1 extra racial action point
• Maetrim has indicated in this thread he is planning to discontinue support for V1 in the near future.

Links for this build updated in the original post (also below for ease of access).

*DDOBuilder (v2) file for this build. You can find and download Maetrim's DDOBuilder (v2) here.
* I've found some errors with v2, so keeping the v1 file ? for a bit longer, even though it seems to be lagging behind the live game.
DDOBuilder (v1) file for this build. You can find and download Maetrim's DDOBuilder (v1) here.

Enjoy!
.

 

[deem of many]

Kali, could you please confirm the attack speed with single weapon style and rune arms?

I was expecting to use it to get the full boosts from

feat line +
attk speed drive from mtech +
attk speed boost +

ran it on the v2 builder, but it does not seem to stack once you go runearm. not sure it that’s a bug or a reality in game.

if it’s a bug, would it also stack with monk air instance on top of all three mentioned above?

 

[Kalibano]

Kali, could you please confirm the attack speed with single weapon style and rune arms?

I was expecting to use it to get the full boosts from

feat line +
attk speed drive from mtech +
attk speed boost +

ran it on the v2 builder, but it does not seem to stack once you go runearm. not sure it that’s a bug or a reality in game.

if it’s a bug, would it also stack with monk air instance on top of all three mentioned above?

Hey there Happy to help with this, as stacking bonuses can be quite confusing.

For the sake of clarity, and to help those who might be new to the game and who might come to read this, I'll try to cover some basics too:

---

feat line +

So the Single Weapon Fighting feats grant a combat style bonus to attack speed: max +30% with Greater Single Weapon Fighting feat
Single Weapon Fighting requires fighting with a single one-handed weapon, and wielding only an orb, runearm, or nothing in your off hand, so just to confirm this combat style bonus above will apply.

---

attk speed drive from mtech +
attk speed boost +

The bonuses you listed here ? are all action boost bonuses to attack speed, so they should NOT stack with each other. Only the highest amount normally counts:

The Machrotecnic tree grants:
T5 Armor of Legends: Speed Drive = +5%. This stays active while the Epic Mage Armor buff is on (and it has a long duration)
T5 Epic Moment (Maximum Overdrive) grants a short temporary +30%.

So in the scenario where you go Machrotecnic T5 and take the Haste Boost from somewhere (e.g. Vistani T2), you'd have:

• 5% action boost speed on all the time while you have Epic Mage armor cast on you
• this would increase to 30% every time you use the haste boost (and you can have quite a few charges of that with the right investment)
• this would increase to 30% when you use the Epic Moment Maximum overdrive, and even if you use a Haste Boost at the same time, it would NOT stack up to 60%

That's based on my general experience and knowledge of this. I have not tried using the Epic Moment + haste boost myself, so can't confirm with full certainty based on doing it in game.

So far, combat style bonus (30%) + action boost bonus (+30%) = +60% achievable attack speed

---

if it’s a bug, would it also stack with monk air instance on top of all three mentioned above?

The bonus granted by the monk air stance is an enhancement bonus to attack speed = 15%.
This type of bonus is the same that is granted through other popular sources (e.g. haste spell, Speed items and Topaz of speed augment). Once again, they should NOT stack with each other, only the highest amount counts.

Personally speaking, for a bonus type that is so easily acquired elsewhere, I don't find all the investment needed to get the air stance worth the effort :

• at least 1 monk level, which involves multiclassing and, as a minimum, losing the capstone core
• since the stance only works while centered, being restricted to using only cloth armor and monk-centered weapons
• spending 3 feat slots to acquire the Grandmaster of Forms feat

So far, combat style bonus (30%) + action boost bonus (+30%) + enhancement bonus (+15%)
= +75% achievable attack speed (45% all the time, and an extra 30% while under the effect of an action boost)

---

I am fairly certain the only way to currently push this speed further is by going Vistani 41 to get the capstone (C6) which currently grants +5% attack speed when using melee and throwing weapons: this stacks with everything, and is currently NOT restricted to daggers/kukris, so all weapon types apply. This stacking bonus is one of the key reasons (amongst other aspects such as doubletrike and haste boost) the Vistani 41 option seems popular with some min-maxers/ 'meta' players out there.

Though it is possible to go C6 in Vistani and T5 in another tree, this is:

• a very significant investment
  • at least 41 to get Vistani C6
  • min 30 APs to be able to spend points in T5 of another tree
  • let's say around 5 APs to spend in T5 (otherwise, why go to T5?)
  • that's a commitment of around 76 action points
• and is a bit restrictive (especially if you do not have a ton of past lives), since the you'd be restricted to mostly 2 trees

So in this scenario, combat style bonus (30%) + action boost bonus (+30%) + enhancement bonus (+15%) + 5% Vistani C6 boost
= +80% achievable attack speed (50% all the time, and an extra 30% while under the effect of an action boost).

---

Apologies if the response was a bit lengthy, hope it was helpful.

I will work on a response to the questions you sent in the other threads soon: I got to get back to work

 

[Varikes]

Hello once again Kali, just wondering thoughts on an alternative build path for a strength based version and also if you can explain cha over str to me, thank you.

So following a slightly different build path,

I went Fallen Aasimar (+1 Str)(I have 6 racial points) Grabbing Heal Amp, Str+1 and divine purpose for a bonus to str n DS during a boss fight.

I followed up enlightened spirit exactly the same

I followed up Warpriest very similarly but opted out of inflame instead for radiant flourish and I think another bonus to str, and taking divine power, not only for the unique str bonus but for out BaB to be raised for additional damage and hp

I also really really wanted a haste boost, it was important to me to still be able to prove more dps to my group and Haste boost is very important to that.

This meant taking points out of DA, i opted out of the SLAs (except prayer) for health, I still get the evil damage on prayer (no save) and the imbue dice, just losing out on curse undead bane, and 5 incorp

But this meant in Vistani I could get deflect arrows, Evil absorb, and haste boost

I was curious on thoughts on a slight deviation? looking at gear atm but stat wise im curious on what I lose not only that but Ontars forge, and Blood of Vol have much better actives then ever watchful. Yes i cant use BSword as favored weapon until 23, but CC Daggers (gold cursed) and even some warhammers, should get me to that point.

DC wise eldritch aura is the only one with fortitude om the fire part, Force and double light are still good, and eldritvh burst is still good and divine vessel is still good. The evil damage on prayer also is not dc based

Is there something im missing or do you think this is a nice alternative?

Edit: We also dont need BSword prof from PDK because war domain gives it to us its just a delay on yhe favored weapon part.

 

[Frantik]

Hello once again Kali, just wondering thoughts on an alternative build path for a strength based version and also if you can explain cha over str to me, thank you.

Hi, Kali went the CHA route bc (i) they chose Purple Dragon Knight which gets CHA to hit and damage for some swords (tier 1) as well as 1/3 CHA mod score for tactical feats, (ii) War Priest bags you CHA-based Trance, and, possibly, (iii) the Warlock eldritch pact damage has a CHA save.

 

[Kalibano]

... also if you can explain cha over str to me, thank you.

Hey there, happy to share some thoughts

In sum:

• hit + dmg + tactical DCs (PDK) with bastard swords
• CHA trance (Warpriest)
• Smite Evil (Divine Crusader)

It might seem very little, but the synergy of the choices, as the design went along, made it all fit nicely.

---

The design concepts ref CHA in more detail (feel free to skip if this seems a bit much):

• Bastard Sword, as a weapon choice, was an initial deciding factor for me personally, since each of my alts specialises in one specific weapon (sometimes weapon type), but I can see how this might not be a factor for others
• From there, I personally wanted to benefit both from the speed of SWF and strikethrough (which became possible with the addition of the 'Combat style Speciality' feats at level 31)
• PDK then was strongly in the back of my mind, since it offers a couple of very desirable effects:
  • with Bastard Swords, CHA to hit & damage + 1/3 of its modifier to tactical DCs (stacks with everything, including trances)
  • all this for just 3 action points
• I've always wanted a 'battle priest-style' character, that did frontline support heals mostly passively while dealing damage mostly via melee combat, but had not been able to achieve this to my satisfaction with non-archetype clerics before
• When Dark Apostate came out, it became attractive for its melee/caster hybrid potential, simply via spell power investment, without needing to invest in spell DCs at all
• No spell DCs naturally led to the conclusion WIS would not be needed at all (despite DA being a WIS-based class), so CHA became even more attractive because of what I outlined from PDK + Warpriest having a CHA trance
• Evil damage was all over the DA tree, so Enlightened Spirit came to mind fairly quickly, being a tree with strong potential for being hybrid because of the aura and its defensiveness, and also for boosting evil damage
• I then started noticing how much imbue die would become available (Warpriest + Dark Apostate + Enlightened Spirit), and the uniqueness of the ES imbue for allowing eldritch blasts/aura to proc the imbue dmg, scaling with spellpower. And it was evil dmg. So lots of synergy so far, and evil being the sole focus at this point
• So the aura pretty much dishes out free imbue dmg + whatever other procs, like Dripping with Magma, while I'd be free to do
  • melee combat at 45% attack speed + strikethrough, dealing evil imbue dmg scaling w spell power
  • cast some no-save de-buffs from DA, which dish evil dmg at the same time, so spell power boosting metamagics became desirable too
• Warpriest would give the core of the melee aspect, and it focuses on fire spell power, so I looked at possible synergies with that too
• I then focused on the healing aspect of the battle priest concept:
  • Warpriest's Ameliorating Strike was a perfect initial candidate for healing others while doing dmg: When you strike an enemy with Smite Foe, you and your nearby allies are healed by 1d3 per character level, and benefit from the effects of the Lesser Restoration spell. (The heal from Ameliorating Strike is affected by your Positive Spell Power)
  • Divine Crusader seemed perfect for a CHA build, since it offered Smite Evil (which is based on CHA)
  • Smite Evil also grant you and nearby allies 1d2 Positive Healing per Character Level when they hit an enemy
  • Consecration: While standing on consecrated ground you and your allies (these include hirelings) are healed every 3 seconds for 1 point of positive energy per character level. This is affected by your Positive Spell Power
  • Primal Avatar certainly came to mind as a strong option, because of its healing while dealing dmg aspect:
  • Mantle Heart: Your Healing spells have a chance to apply a copy of Rejuvenation Cocoon to your target. Your Fire, Light and Alignment spells have a chance to blast of that damage type for an extra 1d6/1d6+3/1d6+6 damage per Character Level. All effects scale with 100% Spell Power. Each element can only strike once every 5 seconds, tracked separately
  • Reborn in Fire A swirl of fire surrounds you dealing 1d6 fire damage per Character Level to enemies, who take half damage on a successful Reflex save (DC: 20 + Highest of INT/WIS/CHA mod + Evocation Bonuses), and healing allies for 1d6 Hit Points per Character Level (max caster level 20). Even at half-dmg, since there's no significant investment in evocation DCs, this is very useful and used very frequently. Its T3 upgrade supports melee combat too: Doubles the damage (and healing) of Reborn in Fire. Reborn in Fire now also grants +25% uncapped Dodge for 4 seconds on use
• The fire spell power aspect still in mind:
  • Crusade: Consecration now burns enemies that step inside. Enemies take 1d6 damage split between Fire and Light damage per Character Level, with both damage types scaling with your Fire spell power.
• Things that do both fire and light/alignment dmg, scalling w spell power:
  • Warpriest's Divine vessel AoE cleave attack: Each affected enemy is hit by a meteor, taking 1 to 4 Fire and 1 to 4 Light Damage per character level. Damage from the meteor is affected by Fire and Light Spellpower.
• Imbue die was always in mind too, so on top of what had the heroic trees (Warpriest + Dark Apostate + Enlightened Spirit) were offering the Epic Destinies were chosen to synergise with this too: Divine Crusader and Primal Avatar.
  • SFW allows the use of orbs and rune-arms, so Machrotecnic came to mind because:
    • extra imbue die
    • free rune arm dmg
    • Caster level with Rune Arms is now based on the higher of half of your Character Level versus your Artificer Level and you use the highest of INT/WIS/CHA to calculate its DCs
    • Your Rune Arms now benefit from the Maximize Spell, Empower Spell and Intensify Spell metamagics (this build has all these)
• CC is something I always like to have on all my melees, hence the choice of PDK early on (since Feydark tree could give cha hit + dmg). Divine Crusader gives that via Consecration and its multi-purpose: CC, dmg buff to all alies, fire dmg to enemies, healing

Well, I'm sure there are more synergies, but these are the ones that came to mind as I was writing these down.

It all stemmed from the choice of bastard swords, and then CHA becoming very appealing for reasons that started popping up along the way. Sorry for the long response, I was kinda trying to demonstrate that lol.

 

[Varikes]

Hey there, happy to share some thoughts

In sum:

• hit + dmg + tactical DCs (PDK) with bastard swords
• CHA trance (Warpriest)
• Smite Evil (Divine Crusader)

It might seem very little, but the synergy of the choices, as the design went along, made it all fit nicely.

---

The design concepts ref CHA in more detail (feel free to skip if this seems a bit much):

• Bastard Sword, as a weapon choice, was an initial deciding factor for me personally, since each of my alts specialises in one specific weapon (sometimes weapon type), but I can see how this might not be a factor for others
• From there, I personally wanted to benefit both from the speed of SWF and strikethrough (which became possible with the addition of the 'Combat style Speciality' feats at level 31)
• PDK then was strongly in the back of my mind, since it offers a couple of very desirable effects:
  • with Bastard Swords, CHA to hit, to damage and 1/3 of its modifier to tactical DCs (stacks with everything, including trances)
  • all this for just 3 action points
• I've always wanted a 'battle priest-style' character, that practically healed passively while dealing damage mostly via melee combat, but had not been able to achieve this to my satisfaction with non-archetype clerics before
• When Dark Apostate came out, it became attractive for its melee/caster hybrid potential, simply via spell power investment, without needing to invest in spell DCs at all
• No spell DCs naturally led to the conclusion WIS would not be needed at all (despite DA being a WIS-based class), so CHA became even more attractive because of what I outlined from PDK + Warpriest having a CHA trance
• Evil damage was all over the DA tree, so Enlightened Spirit came to mind fairly quickly, being a tree with strong potential for being hybrid because of the aura and its defensiveness, and also for boosting evil damage
• I then started noticing how much imbue die would become available (Warpriest + Dark Apostate + Enlightened Spirit), and the uniqueness of the ES imbue for allowing eldritch blasts/aura to proc the imbue dmg, scaling with spellpower. And it was evil dmg. So lots of synergy so far, and evil being the sole focus at this point
• So the aura pretty much dishes out free imbue dmg + whatever other procs like Dripping with Magma + Arcane Warrior, while I'd be free to do
  • melee combat at 45% attack speed + strikethrough, dealing evil imbue dmg scaling w spell power
  • cast some no-save de-buffs from DA, which dish evil dmg at the same time, so spell power boosting metamagics became desirable too
• Warpriest would give the core of the melee aspect, and it focuses on fire spell power, so I looked at possible synergies with that too
• I then focused on the healing aspect of the battle priest concept:
  • Warpriest's Ameliorating Strike was a perfect initial candidate for healing others while doing dmg: When you strike an enemy with Smite Foe, you and your nearby allies are healed by 1d3 per character level, and benefit from the effects of the Lesser Restoration spell. (The heal from Ameliorating Strike is affected by your Positive Spell Power)
  • Divine Crusader seemed perfect for a CHA build, since it offered Smite Evil (which is based on CHA)
  • Smite Evil also grant you and nearby allies 1d2 Positive Healing per Character Level when they hit an enemy
  • Consecration: While standing on consecrated ground you and your allies (these include hirelings) are healed every 3 seconds for 1 point of positive energy per character level. This is affected by your Positive Spell Power
  • Primal Avatar certainly came to mind as a strong option, because of its healing while dealing dmg aspect:
  • Mantle Heart: Your Healing spells have a chance to apply a copy of Rejuvenation Cocoon to your target. Your Fire, Light and Alignment spells have a chance to blast of that damage type for an extra 1d6/1d6+3/1d6+6 damage per Character Level. All effects scale with 100% Spell Power. Each element can only strike once every 5 seconds, tracked separately
  • Reborn in Fire A swirl of fire surrounds you dealing 1d6 fire damage per Character Level to enemies, who take half damage on a successful Reflex save (DC: 20 + Highest of INT/WIS/CHA mod + Evocation Bonuses), and healing allies for 1d6 Hit Points per Character Level (max caster level 20). Even at half-dmg, since there's no significant investment in evocation DCs, this is very useful and used very frequently. Its T3 upgrade supports melee combat too: Doubles the damage (and healing) of Reborn in Fire. Reborn in Fire now also grants +25% uncapped Dodge for 4 seconds on use
• The fire spell power aspect still in mind:
  • Crusade: Consecration now burns enemies that step inside. Enemies take 1d6 damage split between Fire and Light damage per Character Level, with both damage types scaling with your Fire spell power.
• Things that do both fire and light/alignment dmg, scalling w spell power:
  • Warpriest's Divine vessel AoE cleave attack: Each affected enemy is hit by a meteor, taking 1 to 4 Fire and 1 to 4 Light Damage per character level. Damage from the meteor is affected by Fire and Light Spellpower.
• Imbue die was always in mind too, so on top of what had the heroic trees (Warpriest + Dark Apostate + Enlightened Spirit) were offering the Epic Destinies were chosen to synergise with this too: Divine Crusader and Primal Avatar.
  • SFW allows the use of orbs and rune-arms, so Machrotecnic came to mind because:
    • extra imbue die
    • free rune arm dmg
    • Caster level with Rune Arms is now based on the higher of half of your Character Level versus your Artificer Level and you use the highest of INT/WIS/CHA to calculate its DCs
    • Your Rune Arms now benefit from the Maximize Spell, Empower Spell and Intensify Spell metamagics (this build has all these)
• CC is something I always like to have on all my melees, hence the choice of PDK early on (since Feydark tree could give cha hit + dmg). Divine Crusader gives that via Consecration and its multi-purpose: CC, dmg buff to all alies, fire dmg to enemies, healing

Well, I'm sure there are more synergies, but these are the ones that came to mind as I was writing these down.

It all stemmed from the choice of bastard swords, and then CHA becoming very appealing for reasons that started popping up along the way. Sorry for the long response, I was kinda trying to demonstrate that lol.

I appreciate the long response, talking about builds and coming up with different ideas is one of the best parts of this game and I Love going indepth on these things.

- I much perfer bastard swords, because of the ability to do strikethrough, so I use them if I am doing SWF
- The Charisma choice makes sense, and I see the synergy, would it also not be easy to do Strength however and get the same results? Because of the unique Strength Bonus, full Ability modifier to tactical, and a cha augment to help with trance buff?
- I agree with the battle-priest and was also something I looked at for a long time, but could only really see on FvS. Until DA, but never had a chance to really look at (dropped out of DDO for a bit)
- The only thing I really see being a charisma reason is Smite Evil and I think that something im missing for sure, and maybe Rune Arm DC. But I think in overall DPS Str may be a better option while Cha offers more utility.
- I agree with almost everything else, I give up some debuffs and smite strength for Haste boost which is important to me, but i the battle priest part is still a fun thing that I am hoping to achieve with this

May just be different desire from the build even though they are very similar thats just some insight on how I view Strength for my version of the build

Thanks again for explaining everything so well and indepth, I am about to test this build so will know for certain how it is, may do a PDK build to see the difference as well but thank you again. I hope to talk to you more about builds in the future lol

 

[Kalibano]

So following a slightly different build path,

I went Fallen Aasimar (+1 Str)(I have 6 racial points) Grabbing Heal Amp, Str+1 and divine purpose for a bonus to str n DS during a boss fight.

I followed up enlightened spirit exactly the same

I followed up Warpriest very similarly but opted out of inflame instead for radiant flourish and I think another bonus to str, and taking divine power, not only for the unique str bonus but for out BaB to be raised for additional damage and hp

I also really really wanted a haste boost, it was important to me to still be able to prove more dps to my group and Haste boost is very important to that.

This meant taking points out of DA, i opted out of the SLAs (except prayer) for health, I still get the evil damage on prayer (no save) and the imbue dice, just losing out on curse undead bane, and 5 incorp

But this meant in Vistani I could get deflect arrows, Evil absorb, and haste boost

I was curious on thoughts on a slight deviation?

Now, specific to your variation of this build:

• if bastard swords are not part of your aim, then PDK becomes less desirable
• even if BSwords are your aim, you could choose not to focus on CC/tactical DCs at all: this would also remove PDK as a desirable choice
• STR is a strong option for sure
  • you can boost it via Aasimar: fallen
  • Warpriest T5 sacred bonus to STR
  • tensers scrolls become desirable too (and they also grant the BAB bonus), and so do psionic clickies, rage potions, etc.
• I totally get why you'd go for haste boost: it's a solid choice, and Vistani is a great place to get it from
• I don't particularly find Radiant Flourish worth the cost, especially considering the number of buttons available to use during combat. I'd much rather have inflame and its upgrade (or even without its upgrade)

... stat wise im curious on what I lose not only that but Ontars forge, and Blood of Vol have much better actives then ever watchful. Yes i cant use BSword as favored weapon until 23, but CC Daggers (gold cursed) and even some warhammers, should get me to that point.

• ref the faith active ability:
  • my choice is kinda restricted by my race
  • within the choices available, I went for maces, mostly in the event I find myself needing to swap quickly to a blunt weapon, since there are very nice boosts to favoured weapons (especially warpriest, but also divine crusader)
• ref what choice you could make:
  • it will depend on weapon, if you still want all the favoured weapon benefits (e.g. Warpriest's T5 Wrathful weapons: When you score a Vorpal Hit with your religion's favored weapon, you gain +3 bonus Imbue dice for the next 12 seconds
  • sometimes the weapon choice is a deciding factor for me
  • sometimes just the bonuses it grants, especially if I already have my main weapons covered as favored weapons

DC wise eldritch aura is the only one with fortitude om the fire part, Force and double light are still good, and eldritvh burst is still good and divine vessel is still good. The evil damage on prayer also is not dc based

• I don't invest in DCs at all, so the only item from your list above where there is a loss is the pact dmg (fire), which will deal half dmg. However:
  • the number of pact die doesn't really progress high enough to be significant,
  • but it does scale with fire spell power, which this bild invests heavily in
  • all in all, I personally see it as an added extra 'free' bit of dmg via the aura
• The force dmg of the eldritch aura doesn't have a save, but,
  • similarly to the pact die, it doesn't really progress high enough to be significant,
  • it's a bit tight gearing for force SP too (and due to this ?, not worth it)
  • again, I see it as as an added extra 'free' bit of dmg
• Don't forget that Eldritch Burst, prayer and your rune arm damage can all benefit from Maximise, Empower and Intensify metamagics.

Is there something im missing or do you think this is a nice alternative?

The thing that sticks ut the most for me is the loss of the PDK tactical DCs. I find the CC via Consecration (causes helplessness) so nice.
CC is highly desirable for solo play, less so if you group frequently with others who have mass CC.

Apart from that, based on what you detailed from your build, this seems ok

 

[Kalibano]

I appreciate the long response, talking about builds and coming up with different ideas is one of the best parts of this game and I Love going indepth on these things.

- The Charisma choice makes sense, and I see the synergy, would it also not be easy to do Strength however and get the same results? Because of the unique Strength Bonus, full Ability modifier to tactical, and a cha augment to help with trance buff?

• full STR modifier to the base tactical formula is the case for the regular tactical feats (e.g. trip, stun, sunder). I can definitely see how desirable they become on a build that uses strikethrough, so they become kind of AoE.
• Consecration makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC: 20 + highest Ability Score mod + Sunder DCs) or become Cowered for 4 seconds, so it's not like the basic tactical feats that only use STR.
• I have not done the maths to see if the difference between what STR and CHA abilities can achieve (divided by half, since it's the modifier) will provide a bonus that ends up being higher than the 1/3 unique-stackable-with-everything-else bonus PKD gives:
  • STR mod + cha trance + gear bonuses (enhancement + quality + profane + artifact)
  • vs
  • CHA mod + cha trance + gear bonuses (enhancement + quality + profane + artifact) + 1/3 cha mod

---

I keep thinking of the STR trance via Dragon Lord, but that requires at least 3 levels DL. It would grant haste boost as well, and the extra tactical DCs could possibly make up the difference and/or surpass what PDK can give. It would change some important things on the build, though, since you need to be level 14 to get holy sword.
Just thought I'd mention it, not really saying this should be the direction to go.

Thanks again for explaining everything so well and indepth, I am about to test this build so will know for certain how it is, may do a PDK build to see the difference as well but thank you again. I hope to talk to you more about builds in the future lol

Friendly and constructive discussions like this are fantastic, I also love it.
It certainly feels like a rare thing on the forums, but certainly worth it when players like you show up. It's a pleasure to exchange ideas like this.

Hope your build goes well: if you get a chance, I'd be keen to find out some details, if you don't mind sharing here ofc

 

[Varikes]

• This would be the case for the regular tactical feats (e.g. trip, stun, sunder). I can definitely see how desirable they become on a build that uses strikethrough, so they become kind of AoE.
• Consecration makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC: 20 + highest Ability Score mod + Sunder DCs) or become Cowered for 4 seconds, so it's not like the basic tactical feats that only use STR.
• I have not done the maths to see if the difference between what STR and CHA abilities can achieve (divided by half, since it's the modifier) will provide a bonus that ends up being higher than the 1/3 unique-stackable with everything else bonus PKD gives:
  • STR mod + cha trance + gear bonuses (enhancement + quality + profane + artifact)
  • vs
  • CHA mod + cha trance + gear bonuses (enhancement + quality + profane + artifact) + 1/3 cha mod

---

I keep thinking of the STR trance via Dragon Lord, but that requires at least 3 levels DL. It does grant haste boost, and the extra tactical DCs could possibly make up the difference and/or surpass what PDK can give. It would change some important things on the build, though, since you need to be level 14 to get holy sword.
Just thought I'd mention it, not really saying this should be the direction to go.


Friendly and constructive discussions like this are fantastic, I also love it.
It certainly feels like a rare thing on the forums, but certainly worth it when players like you show up. It's a pleasure to exchange ideas like this.

Hope your build goes well: if you get a chance, I'd be keen to find out some details, if you don't mind sharing here ofc

I gladly will, I have some gear to grab before I reincarnate but will definitely report back.

Thanks again for all your help

 

[Frantik]

iirc, i read sometime ago Radiant Flourish doesn't crit (maybe Strimtom vid?). Also, I prefer to go Wall of Steel and Magical Backlash for extra defense rather than inflame (which is defense, but the others are permanent without need to press key; i may be lazy). Always a pleasure to read Kali's detailed posts!

 

[Varikes]

Hey Kali,

Little update, I messed up, I forgot that you cant be in Bond of the Fallen and have Fiend Pact active at the same time. However the build was strong where im at (Planning to hit 20 tonight to do a quick reincarnate)

I am instead going to go Tiefling, since I still want to go strength i was looking at other ways to buff my trance. I also forgot the Hellish Rebuke and Obscuring Darkness (After this reincarnation ill have 7 racial points) so I am thinking of grabbing those and the blind with no save for some extra Utility.

Will update when I get this version up

 

[Kalibano]

Hey Kali,

Little update, I messed up, I forgot that you cant be in Bond of the Fallen and have Fiend Pact active at the same time. However the build was strong where im at (Planning to hit 20 tonight to do a quick reincarnate)

I am instead going to go Tiefling, since I still want to go strength i was looking at other ways to buff my trance.

Will update when I get this version up

Oh that's annoying. Never done an Aasimar Warlock myself, so off the top of my head I didn't pick up on that to warn you.
I've had a few mess ups with Warlocks too, mainly due to alignment restriction, including when I re-specced this Dark Apostate build to add Warlock levels. A word of warning: you can't use the alignment change item while in the area where you re-level up after a lesser reincarnation. Also leaned that the hard way...

I also forgot the Hellish Rebuke and Obscuring Darkness (After this reincarnation ill have 7 racial points) so I am thinking of grabbing those and the blind with no save for some extra Utility.

Personally speaking, I haven't really had a good experience with Obscuring Darkness. I find the game too fast paced in general for static abilities like that to be really meaningful. My feedback to the Devs, when this hit Lama, was to make it some kind of aura/swirl of darkness that follows you around, instead.

I will often suggest trying things for yourself to see if it does suit your playstyle: it's easy/cheap enough to re-spec out of it in case you end up not liking it either. Hope it goes well now.

 

[Varikes]

Oh that's annoying. Never done an Aasimar Warlock myself, so off the top of my head I didn't pick up on that to warn you.
I've had a few mess ups with Warlocks too, mainly due to alignment restriction, including when I re-specced this Dark Apostate build to add Warlock levels. A word of warning: you can't use the alignment change item while in the area where you re-level up after a lesser reincarnation. Also leaned that the hard way...


Personally speaking, I haven't really had a good experience with Obscuring Darkness. I find the game too fast paced in general for static abilities like that to be really meaningful. My feedback to the Devs, when this hit Lama, was to make it some kind of aura/swirl of darkness that follows you around, instead.

I will often suggest trying things for yourself to see if it does suit your playstyle: it's easy/cheap enough to re-spec out of it in case you end up not liking it either. Hope it goes well now.

Alright Kali, I was able to get to 34. did some tests with my version and here what I found

I did not have all the gear proper so this comes with a grain of salt.

Love the build and did exactly what I wanted it to do. The strength version definitely does a little more base damage but lacks in the tactical department. It was very close but Cha def beats it out when it comes to that. R3 I could still stun things with consecrate but not much higher. The build is incredible tanky while doing good damage and I thought it was great as a multipurpose solo build. Hellish Rebuke was nice but obscuring darkness was def to slow.

In raiding with my group i really did feel the lack of DPS but still was able to hold my own when i was split apart and keep frontline with me.

I am about to reincarnate to try another build I have been wanting to try. But I rate this one a solid 8.7 for me personally just from lack of DPS and sometimes there was to much to cast so I wouldn't (Mass inflict, and Divine Punishment mainly and to much SP imo). This would probably go up if I had any set at all or actual gear. But as a baseline class to do for solo playthroughs on Reaper mIssions I highly recommend it
Great Job Kali, I love it

I will add more when I get the chance, but for now This is my quickest review. Oh and I loved the Battle Cleric Vibe i got from it

 

[Kalibano]

Alright Kali, I was able to get to 34. did some tests with my version and here what I found

I did not have all the gear proper so this comes with a grain of salt.

Love the build and did exactly what I wanted it to do. The strength version definitely does a little more base damage but lacks in the tactical department. It was very close but Cha def beats it out when it comes to that. R3 I could still stun things with consecrate but not much higher. The build is incredible tanky while doing good damage and I thought it was great as a multipurpose solo build. Hellish Rebuke was nice but obscuring darkness was def to slow.

In raiding with my group i really did feel the lack of DPS but still was able to hold my own when i was split apart and keep frontline with me.

I am about to reincarnate to try another build I have been wanting to try. But I rate this one a solid 8.7 for me personally just from lack of DPS and sometimes there was to much to cast so I wouldn't (Mass inflict, and Divine Punishment mainly and to much SP imo). This would probably go up if I had any set at all or actual gear. But as a baseline class to do for solo playthroughs on Reaper mIssions I highly recommend it
Great Job Kali, I love it

I will add more when I get the chance, but for now This is my quickest review. Oh and I loved the Battle Cleric Vibe i got from it

Hey Varikes,

Thanks for sharing this, and for going into detail about the variations you made, what worked and not worked so well. This type of contribution is much appreciated!

I find that gear, particularly set bonuses and filigrees, make a massive difference towards achieving the aims of any of my builds, so I get what you mean when you say 'with a grain of salt'. I also fully understand that it's a massive investment going all the way with gear + filigrees, especially when the aim might be to just grab a quick life and TR again.

---

...sometimes there was to much to cast so I wouldn't (Mass inflict, and Divine Punishment mainly and to much SP imo).

Some quick comments on my spell casting, since I don't go into much detail in the main post.

The key spells I cast are in the top line of the left column in the image below (with the exception of Divine Punishment, which I only use on longer fights/bosses)

• Consecration and Reborn in fire are ED spells, so they are like SLAs. Very low cost, all metamagics applied, and they deal dmg + heal, so I cast a lot. Consecration is the main form of CC, and grants a unique dmg buff to the party while standing in it.
• Bane / Prayer / Bestow Curse are all SLAs, so they cost very little and I get to apply all the metamagics to them
  • 'Prey for Mercy [T3]' makes Bane, Prayer and Bless deal evil dmg (on top of the de-buffs they normally apply). Bless is not an SLA, so I don't use as often
  • This damage is doubled vs enemies that are cursed, so I cast Bestow Curse a lot too
  • [C4] transforms Bane, Bestow Curse and Doom (not SLA) into no-save spells, which are perfect for a build that has zero investment in WIS and spell DCs
• Other no-save spells on the second line on the left column (e.g. Searing Light, Nimbus of Light) are rarely cast, but are there if/when needed. Searing Light is particularly nice vs undead
• The spells on the top line of the right column are self-heals: because the majority are melee range, they end up doing half their damage potential to enemies around, but I see this more as a 'bonus' rather than their main aims. I don't find myself casting them regularly at all.

I'm aware I have the rings of spell storingx3, but overall, the spell choices I regularly make ensure I rarely struggle with spell points.

---

Thanks again for your honest assessment and for taking the time to share this here. Glad you like the build, and that you got a nice Battle Cleric vibe!

 

[Kalibano]

Update: Magic of Myth Drannor level cap raise to 34
The newest level cap increase has brought a series of changes, including:

• +8 Destiny Points to spend in Epic Destinies
• +1 Epic feat (@ lvl 33)
• +1 Epic Destiny feat (@ lvl 34)
• New gear options
• The new Sun/Moon augments, granting artefact/profane bonuses (they do not count as a 'set bonus', and therefore, 3-piece augment sets can be slotted in items that have Sun/Moon augment slots too)

I'm working towards updating all my builds. As people will hopefully appreciate, this is quite time-consuming, so it will take a while.
I'm aiming to make small changes, and post them bit by bit, rather than wait until all changes are ready to share.

---

Planning new gear for all builds is a much larger project, for the much longer-term, as gear tetris is always tricky, especially the way I do it (to be shared and used by several alts).

Sun and Moon Augments / Set Bonuses:
In Update 69, there are no traditional Set Bonuses. Instead, items in this pack (both Heroic and Legendary) have Sun and Moon Augment Slots!

• One Sun Augment Slot appears on Armor, Helm, Cloak, Goggle, and Trinket slot items.
• One Moon Augment Slot appears on Glove, Bracer, Belt, Necklace, and Boot slot items.
  • Sun and Moon Augment Slots do not appear on Ring, Rune Arm, Quiver, Ammunition, or Weapon/Shield slot items, and we intend to keep it that way in future updates.

Sun and Moon Augments work exactly like Chromatic (Red, Blue, Colorless, etc) Augments. They are slotted the same way, removed with Jeweler's Toolkits, and can be replaced by slotting a new Sun or Moon Augment in an existing one's place. Sun Augment Slots only accept Sun Augments, and Moon Augment Slots only accept Moon Augments. The Sun and Moon Augments in this pack are currently intended to be unbound, though this may change before release. Sun and Moon Augment Slots can (and do!) appear on items in addition to the expected number/type of Chromatic Augment Slots (so an item may have Yellow, Green and Sun slots simultaneously).

• Sun Augments replace Primary sets in this pack, meaning their Effect Bonus Type is usually Artifact.
• Moon Augments replace Secondary sets in this pack, meaning their Effect Bonus Type is usually Profane.

Considering most values granted by the artifact and profane types of bonus have not increased, the current gear sets will make do just fine in the meantime. At the moment, I foresee my alts potentially wearing:

• a 3-piece artifact 'set bonus' from one of the previous packs
  • possibly Sharn's Part of the Family, since it uses necklace and gloves, as a way to 'stretch' my gain of artifact bonuses to two slots that would otherwise have Moon slots (profane bonuses), and get extra options of Sun artifact bonuses on the helm and cloak?
• a 5-piece profane 'set bonus' from one of the previous packs
  • very likely to use weapon, off-hand and one ring slot, since those slots will not be getting any Sun/Moon augments
  • possibly Dread, since the Dino weapons are very strong
• maybe a Minor Artefact from Myth Drannor (I heard they have 5 filigree slots, not fully sure at this point)
  • most likely a ring, since rings don't get Sun/Moon augments
• all other gear slots hopefully from Myth Drannor, so they can each have a Sun/Moon augment in them
  • 3+5+1 above = 9 gear slots used, out of a possible 13/14 (w off-hand)
  • so 4/5 extra Myth Drannor slots would mean the option of slotting one 3-piece augment set in 3 of those items, since they won't supress the Sun/Moon augments (as confirmed by Steelstar, they don't count as a 'set bonus', just an augment that gives the bonus)

Once I get started on the gear tetris this plan could change completely: these are just some general plans based on what I've had a chance to read/learn about the new loot.
.