Kali's Stormsinger Warchanter/Dragon Lord HYBRID THF CHA Melee/Caster build

[WolfsGoRawr]

I use Energy Vortex for 3 main reasons:

1. It deals damage every 3 seconds for 15 seconds passively, which means I get to do melee attacks interweaved with other spell casting while this dmg is being dealt by itself. I personally find this highly synergistic with hybrid builds
2. Being a cold spell, it triggers the Stormsinger Lightning Strike proc. I would say this is the main combo, rather than the paralyse effect
3. There's the added bonus of having a 25% chance to paralyze enemies caught within the Energy Vortex with fear for 6 seconds with no save (and this can only affect each monster once).

Does it proc on every trick or just the initial one?
If it procs on every tick, that is kind of neat then.

Although pending points for 2 different epic damage strikes still seems so curious to me. So many buttons too press too, I need more fingers hehe

 

[Kalibano]

Does it proc on every trick or just the initial one?
If it procs on every tick, that is kind of neat then.

Although pending points for 2 different epic damage strikes still seems so curious to me. So many buttons too press too, I need more fingers hehe

I am not entirely sure if it procs on every tick, not done systematic testing on that. Combat can be quite fast paced, and lots of mobs around and lots of spells going make it hard to be sure of it.
I'd hazard a guess that it does, based on how some effects like alchemical attunement, seem to proc on every tick, but you know DDO, it might as easily be that it doesn't proc on every tick just because...

---

Ref 2 epic strikes:
The Fatesinger epic strike is a pre-requisite to the AoE SLA spell 'Echoes of Discord' in T2, which is what I really want to have.
'Echoes of Discord is a fast spell, benefits from metamagics for free, so to me, seem worth the 2 points spent to get it.
Being sonic dmg, it's another option for casting, in between weapon swings, to trigger a Lightning Strike proc.

Just to clarify: I do not use the Fatesinger epic strike at all. I don't find it stronger than Energy Vortex, and even if it is, the fact that I would have to constantly keep clicking to cast it would make it less ideal to me, since there is already so much to click and do. I would still prefer one click that automatically dishes out dmg afterwards (every 3 seconds for 15 seconds) without the need to re-click it every few seconds.

---

The way I approach builds like this (and my Blight caster hybrid), that have lots of buttons to press is:
- select your 'core' options that you want to press first because they are the strongest and/or the one that suit your playstyle the most

- I personally avoid suggesting specific orders for rotations because that can be quite rigid/prescriptive, but just as an example, I tend to use Energy Vortex pretty early on, sort of a couple of seconds prior to entering combat, and depending on who I am fighting, and if there is dedicated CC in the group or not, I pick my other choices​

- if you don't get to press everything because things are dead: well, they are dead, you win they were not needed for that encounter, that's all
- if an encounter lasts long enough to require using these 'extra options', then that's why they are there, especially considering cooldown on the 'core' options in your rotation
- if you find yourself never using something you selected from an epic destiny or enhancement tree, then re-spec and try something else

All in all, I personally feel the worst scenarios are finding myself without anything to press because things are all on cooldown.

Hybrids, in the sense of doing both melee dmg and some spellcasting, can be tricky in terms of reaching a balance.
- too much melee and rarely casting spells: it might be worth using a pure melee build instead
- too much casting, and rarely finding time to swing your weapon: it might be worth using a pure caster build instead

Just quoting myself from my Blight caster hybrid forum thread, where I commented on this too, to save me time typing it again:

Hi Synthetic, thanks for the message and your suggestions!

I suppose 'hybrid' is not a fully straightforward concept. To me in DDO, it sort of means part caster, part melee/ranged, complementing each other. To me, druid has always been one of the best for making hybrids (EK is great too): Out of all the hybrids I have posted builds for, this seems to be the most synergistic one in game-play, at least to me.

This build kinda uses the caster side mostly for CC and insta-kills, and dishes out dmg mostly via melee combat (not only by hitting things physically, but also having passive things dishing out damage while doing physical damage, expounded below). I don't see a 'shift in direction' with the epics to be honest: The PA mantle helps dish out extra damage via both melee and spellcasting. The imbue dice (usable via melee only) requires investment in spell power to amplify its damage, so again another synergistic aspect of the build. And Vortex for melee characters is super awesome!

True, there's also a lot of damage being dished out by spells, but it's mostly passively via CC, lingering DoTs (e.g. Storm Vengenace, Acid Rain, Creeping Doom, Black Dragon bolt, etc..), Shard Storm, Energy Vortex, while doing melee. If there's too much active spell casting, melee becomes rarely used: then going more Blight Caster would make total sense, as would dropping the melee side of the build in favor of being a pure caster. It's not the direction I feel I would like to take, though. I really enjoy the melee aspect of the build, personally.

Hybrids are tricky because they perform 2 roles, but cannot 'max everything' for both roles (so you gotta invest on some key aspects in both roles). Shifter makes the caster DC aspect work, while Falconry makes the melee aspect viable. Taking away from those would make the build poor in one of those 2 aspects.

Hope these thoughts are somewhat helpful

 

[WolfsGoRawr]

I am not entirely sure if it procs on every tick, not done systematic testing on that. Combat can be quite fast paced, and lots of mobs around and lots of spells going make it hard to be sure of it.
I'd hazard a guess that it does, based on how some effects like alchemical attunement, seem to proc on every tick, but you know DDO, it might as easily be that it doesn't proc on every tick just because...

---

Ref 2 epic strikes:
The Fatesinger epic strike is a pre-requisite to the AoE SLA spell 'Echoes of Discord' in T2, which is what I really want to have.
'Echoes of Discord is a fast spell, benefits from metamagics for free, so to me, seem worth the 2 points spent to get it.
Being sonic dmg, it's another option for casting, in between weapon swings, to trigger a Lightning Strike proc.

Just to clarify: I do not use the Fatesinger epic strike at all. I don't find it stronger than Energy Vortex, and even if it is, the fact that I would have to constantly keep clicking to cast it would make it less ideal to me, since there is already so much to click and do. I would still prefer one click that automatically dishes out dmg afterwards (every 3 seconds for 15 seconds) without the need to re-click it every few seconds.

---

The way I approach builds like this (and my Blight caster hybrid), that have lots of buttons to press is:
- select your 'core' options that you want to press first because they are the strongest and/or the one that suit your playstyle the most

- I personally avoid giving specific orders for rotations because that can be quite rigid/prescriptive, but just as an example, I tend to use Energy Vortex pretty early on, sort of a couple of seconds prior to entering combat, and depending on who I am fighting, and if there is dedicated CC in the group or not, I pick my other choices​

- if you don't get to press everything because things are dead: well, they are dead, you win they were not needed for that encounter, that's all
- if an encounter lasts long enough to require using these 'extra options', then that's why they are there, especially considering cooldown on the 'core' options in your rotation
- if you find yourself never using something you selected from an epic destiny or enhancement tree, then re-spec and try something else

All in all, I personally feel the worst scenarios are finding myself without anything to press because things are all on cooldown.

Hybrids, in the sense of doing both melee dmg and some spellcasting, can be tricky in terms of reaching a balance.
- too much melee and rarely casting spells: it might be worth using a pure melee build instead
- too much casting, and rarely finding time to swing your weapon: it might be worth using a pure caster build instead

Just quoting myself from my Blight caster hybrid forum thread, where I commented on this too, to save me time typing it again:


Hope these thoughts are somewhat helpful

They were, cheers!

 

[WolfsGoRawr]

Another question (sorry)
I see you have taken the double range meta magic in fate singer, is that just QOL or any specific reason for that?
to me it just seems like a travel node since it does not increase AOE sadly.

 

[Kalibano]

Another question (sorry)
I see you have taken the double range meta magic in fate singer, is that just QOL or any specific reason for that?
to me it just seems like a travel node since it does not increase AOE sadly.

No worries, happy to share thoughts

Enlarge spell metamagic allows you to cast spells 100% further (doubling distance). It does work on AoE spells, in the sense you can cast Otto's Sphere and Sleet Storm from quite far away.
At a quick glance it does seem redundant for a build that operates at melee range most of the time, but I personally find it useful on a quite a few occasions, especially being free to cast:

• it makes Otto's Irresistible dance far better to use: being a no-save CC spell, I tend to use it a lot
• I tend to start combat with Crushing Despair, and this allows me to cast that from a great distance prior to engaging in combat
  • this also means more time to cast other spells while running to the frontline (e.g. Energy Vortex just prior to start combat)
• it allows me to throw Otto's Spheres, Mind Fogs, Slee Storms, etc prior to engaging in melee combat

That's off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more uses

 

[WolfsGoRawr]

I've been testing the dragon breath vortex adjustment and I can't seem to trigger the lightning proc's from it, it does trigger the fatesinger mantle, but never the lightning other than maybe the initial hit. Maybe your experience is different with this

 

[Kalibano]

I've been testing the dragon breath vortex adjustment and I can't seem to trigger the lightning proc's from it, it does trigger the fatesinger mantle, but never the lightning other than maybe the initial hit. Maybe your experience is different with this

Not sure if I mentioned it to you here, but I am on an extended break from DDO, so I am not currently active to test this, sorry. I've been trying to pop in and answer messages when I can just to try to be helpful really.

This build first started using Dragon Breath Vortex in the days when it was the strongest epic strike for casters by a long mile: it was very overpowered. Back then Dragon Breath did not always trigger certain effects properly/reliably (e.g. Dripping with Magma, at least not with the fire version, as the breath DoT and Drip DoT overwrote each other and/or were on the same 'channel' or something along those lines).

Then Epic Destinies got revamped and there were some fixes, but I don't particularly recall now if the lightning proc definitely has a chance to trigger on each tick. For my personal circumstances, it was hard to test because

• it's not 100% chance to proc
• I use a lot of effects that have a chance to proc lightning, inc melee attacks
• I often have a ton of things happening at the same time in combat to notice
• I did not have time to do systematic testing out of combat for all similar things for all my builds/alts
• RL super busy, limited gaming time, and updating forum builds has always been very time-consuming

Apologies to disappoint, but I can't confirm this for certain, and it's been a while in game, so don't recall from gaming experience.

 

[WolfsGoRawr]

Not sure if I mentioned it to you here, but I am on an extended break from DDO, so I am not currently active to test this, sorry. I've been trying to pop in and answer messages when I can just to try to be helpful really.

This build first started using Dragon Breath Vortex in the days when it was the strongest epic strike for casters by a long mile: it was very overpowered. Back then Dragon Breath did not always trigger certain effects properly/reliably (e.g. Dripping with Magma, at least not with the fire version, as the breath DoT and Drip DoT overwrote each other and/or were on the same 'channel' or something along those lines).

Then Epic Destinies got revamped and there were some fixes, but I don't particularly recall now if the lightning proc definitely has a chance to trigger on each tick. For my personal circumstances, it was hard to test because

• it's not 100% chance to proc
• I use a lot of effects that have a chance to proc lightning, inc melee attacks
• I often have a ton of things happening at the same time in combat to notice
• I did not have time to do systematic testing out of combat for all similar things for all my builds/alts
• RL super busy, limited gaming time, and updating forum builds has always been very time-consuming

Apologies to disappoint, but I can't confirm this for certain, and it's been a while in game, so don't recall from gaming experience.

Fair, life gets in the way, I was thinking about dropping draconic as a result for something else since it doesn't seem to work at all, but Ill keep testing for now. Cheers!

 

[Kalibano]

Fair, life gets in the way, I was thinking about dropping draconic as a result for something else since it doesn't seem to work at all, but Ill keep testing for now. Cheers!

I considered a few times changing the epic strike too, and even went with a melee option for a while (think I went Fury of the Wild) to test. I ended up bk with Vortex, it just felt more synergistic and hybrid-y:

• cold spellpower being a key reason, since it synergises with imbue die and cold spells proccing lightning strike
• the fact I cast/click it once, and it hits 5 times passively during 15 secs, rather than have to click it 5 times with other strikes: on a 'click-heavy' build, I personally find lingering dmg abilities this is priceless
  • adrenaline required constant clicking, and it took away from a lot of the spellcasting I wanted to be doing to be more hybrid
• even if it procs lighting strike once only, it's AoE, and it's one extra channel to proc it while I am free to do other things
• back when I crunched the numbers, it was hitting 800+ cold spellpower, which is not an insignificant amount, and by this I mean Vortex hits 5 times AoE with 40% cold spell chance to crit, so it does do dmg, and if things are immune to cold, the fatesinger mantle does sonic dmg often too
  • ref numbers: quite likely to be higher with the new gear available now: prior to taking a break, I had regeared 6 alts or so with Myth Drannor gear sets and S/M augments, and was able to squeeze more set bonuses and achieve higher numbers on all.

In the end, I'd recommend going with what suits your playstyle the best really. Trying different Epic Destinies + Strikes sounds like a good way forward for sure.

---

Just thought I'd share a couple of 'not-very-obvious-nor-well-known' bits from this build:

• Sleet Storm counts as a cold spell for the purposes of proc-ing lightning strikes while mobs are in there
  • I'd be mindful of this spell though, some people hate it because it blocks visibility, but also because they might not have a way to cast FoM on themselves. I personally always ask in chat if everyone is ok with me using it, and always buff everyone with FoM if I do use it.
• I carry Ice Storm scrolls, and they also cause the lightning proc
• can't say I do this a lot in groups, probably more on in solo play, but it's nice to cast Otto's Disco, Sleet Storm and a scroll of Ice Storm inside of it
• if you get hold of a weapon with the 'Salt' effect, equip it quickly, cast a lingering cloud effect (e.g. Sleet Storm, or even an Ice Storm scroll on main hand with the weapon off-hand) and swap back to your main weapon: the cloud will apply the salt effect (i.e. 'snapshotting') on all mobs that enter it, and keep re-applying while they are inside, and slow them (extra slow if used with Ice Storm)
• level 1 spell 'Sonic Blast': might seem useless because it used to be AoE and now is single target, but at least before I went on a break, it still works AoE for breakables, and it inherently has a double range, so you can break stuff from far without having to bother running to it and using your melee weapon

 

[WolfsGoRawr]

I considered a few times changing the epic strike too, and even went with a melee option for a while (think I went Fury of the Wild) to test. I ended up bk with Vortex, it just felt more synergistic and hybrid-y:

• cold spellpower being a key reason, since it synergises with imbue die and cold spells proccing lightning strike
• the fact I cast/click it once, and it hits 5 times passively during 15 secs, rather than have to click it 5 times with other strikes: on a 'click-heavy' build, I personally find lingering dmg abilities this is priceless
  • adrenaline required constant clicking, and it took away from a lot of the spellcasting I wanted to be doing to be more hybrid
• even if it procs lighting strike once only, it's AoE, and it's one extra channel to proc it while I am free to do other things
• back when I crunched the numbers, it was hitting 800+ cold spellpower, which is not an insignificant amount, and by this I mean Vortex hits 5 times AoE with 40% cold spell chance to crit, so it does do dmg, and if things are immune to cold, the fatesinger mantle does sonic dmg often too
  • ref numbers: quite likely to be higher with the new gear available now: prior to taking a break, I had regeared 6 alts or so with Myth Drannor gear sets and S/M augments, and was able to squeeze more set bonuses and achieve higher numbers on all.

In the end, I'd recommend going with what suits your playstyle the best really. Trying different Epic Destinies + Strikes sounds like a good way forward for sure.

---

Just thought I'd share a couple of 'not-very-obvious-nor-well-known' bits from this build:

• Sleet Storm counts as a cold spell for the purposes of proc-ing lightning strikes while mobs are in there
  • I'd be mindful of this spell though, some people hate it because it blocks visibility, but also because they might not have a way to cast FoM on themselves. I personally always ask in chat if everyone is ok with me using it, and always buff everyone with FoM if I do use it.
• I carry Ice Storm scrolls, and they also cause the lightning proc
• can't say I do this a lot in groups, probably more on in solo play, but it's nice to cast Otto's Disco, Sleet Storm and a scroll of Ice Storm inside of it
• if you get hold of a weapon with the 'Salt' effect, equip it quickly, cast a lingering cloud effect (e.g. Sleet Storm, or even an Ice Storm scroll on main hand with the weapon off-hand) and swap back to your main weapon: the cloud will apply the salt effect (i.e. 'snapshotting') on all mobs that enter it, and keep re-applying while they are inside, and slow them (extra slow if used with Ice Storm)
• level 1 spell 'Sonic Blast': might seem useless because it used to be AoE and now is single target, but at least before I went on a break, it still works AoE for breakables, and it inherently has a double range, so you can break stuff from far without having to bother running to it and using your melee weapon

I did some more testing and found that vortex doesn't seem to trigger anything other than the mantle from fate singer. None of the lightning procs, it doesn't even trigger the paralyze anymore. I wonder if it ever did because that would have been so much better.

Burst works fine on all acounts though.

 

[Kalibano]

I did some more testing and found that vortex doesn't seem to trigger anything other than the mantle from fate singer. None of the lightning procs, it doesn't even trigger the paralyze anymore. I wonder if it ever did because that would have been so much better.

Burst works fine on all acounts though.

That is a shame indeed. I do recall reporting this specific issue to Tonquin when the Draconic Destiny was being revamped.
After the revamp, it definitely seemed to be working though, as I do recall both the Daunting Roar paralysis and the Lightning proc happening with Vortex. I definitely never properly tested if the proc happened on each tick, though. Maybe down the line something broke Vortex again?

If not working, maybe another epic strike might be better after all?
Another appealing aspect of Vortex was that each tick would apply/re-apply DoTs from gear, like alchemical attunement and the Dripping Magma-style DoTs, as well other Leg Greesteel type effects like salt, affirmation etc.
Of course clicking 5 times an alternative epic strike would still apply/re-apply these effects, but that takes 5 clicks, rather than just 1 click to achieve the same total dmg of 5 clicks + 4 clicks of other dmg things on top of this happening passively.