Kali's U72 Vile Chemist/Dragon Disciple HYBRID SWF Melee/Caster build

Kalibano · Sep 18, 2024

Magic of Myth Drannor changes
New Epic feat + Epic Destiny feat
I have not yet levelled every alt to 34, so this is what I am aiming to try-and-test.

Epic Spell Focus: Transmutation (lvl 33)
- +1 Transmutation DCs
~~Arcane Actions (level 34)~~
- ~~whenever you use an Action Boost~~ ~~{for 20s every 40s}~~:
  - ~~+50 competence bonus to Universal Spell Power~~
  - ~~+2 imbue die, bringing the total to~~ 22
- ~~Alchemists get action boosts as spells~~ ~~{for 20s every 40s}, so their use is NOT limited by charges~~

The image below was updated in the main post (also here for ease of access):

The sections/effect values that were affected have been updated accordingly.
The DDOBuilder (v2) file has been updated with these changes.

Enjoy!

.

Warned · Sep 19, 2024

I might be mistaken, but from reading the reports during the Lam period, I thought Alch Action Boosts didn't proc Arcane Actions.
Was that changed? Or am I mistaken entirely (always entirely possible)

Kalibano · Sep 19, 2024

Warned said:
I might be mistaken, but from reading the reports during the Lam period, I thought Alch Action Boosts didn't proc Arcane Actions.
Was that changed? Or am I mistaken entirely (always entirely possible)

Thanks for mentioning this: I was not aware of it at all.

I have not yet tested this myself, as I haven't yet reached lvl 34 on this specific character. I might have to re-think my choice then, if this info proves correct.

Kalibano · Sep 20, 2024

I've made some changes to heroic enhancements:

The original plan was to get the INT trance from the Harper tree, so 4 APs had been spent there.
Though I could potentially buy the Vecna universal tome, its +1 bonus would still not be enough to get at least 1 rank in the trance.

So 3 APs were removed from the Harper tree

(1 must still be spent there, since I have the universal tome from Sharn)...

... and spent in the following trees

, for the following gains:

> Deepwood Stalker (1 AP)

> +1 Sneak Attack dice

> +10 Positive Spell Power

> Henshin Mystic (1 AP)

> +1 imbue dice

> +3 Melee Power

> +3 PRR

> +2 Fire resistance

> enemies have -2 resistance vs fire spells (e.g. Gold Breath)

> Shadar-kai (+1 AP, new total = 4)

> Bleed damage {33% chance upon using Shadar-kai Spiked Chain}

> DoT every 2s, for 15s, scales with Melee Power

The original post and DDOBuilder file have updated to reflect these.

Note: in future, should I acquire enough extra universal tree action points, I am likely to revert those changes back to spend the points for the INT trance, since the insightful bonus to damage would be significant.

Kalibano · Sep 20, 2024

Magic of Myth Drannor changes
Epic Destiny feat

I have made a change based on a comment shared earlier in this thread:

Warned said:
I might be mistaken, but from reading the reports during the Lam period, I thought Alch Action Boosts didn't proc Arcane Actions.
Was that changed? Or am I mistaken entirely (always entirely possible)

seems to strongly indicate Arcane Actions won't work with the spell Action Boosts, since it seems there was some testing/discussion during the Lamania to preview/test the new feats. In addition to that:

I'm not yet at level 34 with this character to test it out by myself
I don't really want to incur the cost of swapping the feat out. Though it's only an Exceptional Siberys Shard, I have an army of alts, so these get used super fast, and they are not easy to acquire (it takes thousands of shards to crunch into one) nor cheap in the action house
I haven't managed to find any certain confirmation/negation of this
the alternative feat I selected (Spell Speciality: Conjuration) will support the spell dmg aspect of the build (inc Dragon Breath), so I am happy with it

Note on Dragon breath: though there is a discrepancy in game ref the spell school for the Poison breath (it basically mentions both transmutation and conjuration

), it seems likely the school already is/would likely be fixed to be Conjuration.
Being an Epic Strike that is used very often by this build, Conj DCs are indeed desirable, and therfore, worth the investment.

New feat choice:

Spell Speciality: Conjuration (level 34)
- +3 Conjuration DCs

The image below was updated in the main post (also here for ease of access):

Kalibano · Sep 20, 2024

Magic of Myth Drannor changes
Epic Destiny points (+8)

The following additions/changes were made to Epic Destinies:

+2 Draconic Incarnation
- [T3] +2 Conjuration DCs
+6 Shadowdancer
- [T1] +2 Reflex saves; bringing the total to 106+
- [T1] +4 Search, Spot, Disable Device & Open Lock skills
- [C2] +5 Melee & Ranged power
- [C2] +5 Universal Spell Power
- [C2] +15 Hit Points
- [C2] +25 Spell Points
- [C2] SLA: Dimension Door
- [C2] +1 Sneak Attack dice
- [T2] +1 Sneak Attack dice, bringing the total to 5 SA die

The images below were updated in the main post (also here for ease of access):
Epic Destinies: 73 = 69 + 1 (Tome of Fate +3) + 2 (Fey & Dread tomes) + 1 (Historic tome)

Vile-Chemist-Melee-hybrid-Epic-Destinies-Myth-Drannor.jpg

Prior to Myth Drannor's level cap raise (total 65 Destiny Points)

The sections/effect values that were affected have been updated accordingly.
The DDOBuilder (v2) file has been updated with these changes.

Enjoy!

.

Kalibano · Sep 20, 2024

Gear changes

I am indeed planning to update the gear for this build, and hopeful to add some MD items + Sun/Moon augments too.

Planning new gear for all builds is a much larger project, for the much longer-term, as gear tetris is always tricky, especially the way I do it (to be shared and used by several alts).

I'm working towards updating all my builds. As people will hopefully appreciate, this is quite time-consuming, so it will take a while.
I'm aiming to make small changes, and post them bit by bit, rather than wait until all changes are ready to share.

Kalibano · Sep 20, 2024

Breakdowns for the main spell DCs and main casting ability have just been added to the main post (and below for ease of access, though be advised that this specific post is not likely to get updated, only the main post).
I plan to do the same for all casters + hybrids that use spell DCs.

Just thought it could be useful to place a reminder that the vast majority of the numbers in my builds are for characters with no/minimun past lives, without most (if any at all) rare bonuses, and not in reaper mode. So this is the 'core', the 'foundations' to be build upon.
There's definitely scope to improve some of the bonuses from gear, for example, and I am planning to cover that with the new gear tetris that will potentially include Myth Drannor items + Sun/Moon augments.

J. Spell DCs:
N.B. The values below are NOT inclusive of the de-buffs outlined in section 3 of the main build.

> Transmutation = 104+

Breakdown:

A saving throw against most standard spells has a DC of :

10 + (the level of the spell) + (your bonus for the relevant Ability) + (any relevant items and or buffs)

10 + 6* + 43 + 45 = 104

* Alchemists cast max level 6 spells, and heighten makes spells of lower levels count as level 6 spells.

{Spellcasting ability modifier}

+43 (INT modifier)

{Transmutation bonuses}

+45

Feats {+9}

> +1: 'Spell Focus: Transmutation'

> +1: 'Greater Spell Focus: Transmutation'

> +1: 'Epic Spell Focus: Transmutation'

> +4: 'Scion of the Plane of Earth'

> +2: 'Embolden Spell' (metamagic)

Epic Destinies {+10}

> +4 Epic bonus: Primal Avatar cores [1-4]

> +3: Primal Avatar [T3]

> +3: Primal Avatar's 'Ancient Wisdom' [T5]

Gear bonuses (inc Set bonuses) {+19}

> +3 artifact bonus (set bonus)

> +2 profane bonus

> +6 equipment bonus

> +2 insightful bonus

> +2 quality bonus

> +2 sacred bonus

> +2 enhancement bonus (Gianthold augment)

Filigrees (inc Set bonuses) {+6}

> +2: 'Eye of the Beholder' (4-piece set)

> +2: 'Otto's Irrevocable Power' (4-piece set)

> +2: 'The Serpent' (4-piece set)

Airship Buffs {+1}

> +1: 'Archwizard'

Note: Some ED spells reach higher DCs (e.g. Mass Frog: 20 + Highest of INT/WIS/CHA modifier + Transmutation bonuses = 108)

> Conjuration = 101+

Breakdown:

A saving throw against most standard spells has a DC of :

10 + (the level of the spell) + (your bonus for the relevant Ability) + (any relevant items and or buffs)

10 + 6* + 43 + 42 = 101

* Alchemists cast max level 6 spells, and heighten makes spells of lower levels count as level 6 spells.

{Spellcasting ability modifier}

+43 (INT modifier)

{Conjuration bonuses}

+42

Feats {+9}

> +3: 'Spell Speciality: Conjuration'

> +4: 'Scion of the Plane of Earth'

> +2: 'Embolden Spell' (metamagic)

Epic Destinies {+9}

> +4 Epic bonus: Primal Avatar cores [1-4]

> +2: Draconic Incarnation [T3]

> +3: Primal Avatar's 'Ancient Wisdom' [T5]

Gear bonuses (inc Set bonuses) {+17}

> +3 artifact bonus (set bonus)

> +2 profane bonus

> +4 equipment bonus

> +2 insightful bonus

> +2 quality bonus

> +2 sacred bonus

> +2 enhancement bonus (Gianthold augment)

Filigrees (inc Set bonuses) {+6}

> +2: 'Eye of the Beholder' (4-piece set)

> +2: 'Otto's Irrevocable Power' (4-piece set)

> +2: 'The Serpent' (4-piece set)

Airship Buffs {+1}

> +1: 'Archwizard'

> Casting ability: Intelligence = 97/43+

INT breakdown:

Base

> +18 (character creation)

Level up

> +8 (+1 @ lvls 4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28 and 32)

Tome

> +8 inherent bonus

Heroic

> +2: Vistani [T3+4]

> +2: Vistani 'Blade Master [C6]'

> +2: Vile Chemist [T3+4]

Racial

> +1: Shadar-Kai [C2]

Epic Destinies

> +2 primal bonus: Primal Avatar's 'Spirit Boon: Mind [T2]'

Gear bonuses (inc Set bonuses)

> +3 artifact bonus (set bonus)

> +2 profane bonus (Augment)

> +15 enhancement bonus

> +5 insightful bonus (Augment)

> +3 quality bonus

> +2 festive bonus (Augment)

> +2 exceptional bonus (Dino weapon)

Filigrees (inc Set bonuses)

> +4: 'Raid: Zarigan's Arcane Enlightenment/Voltaic Experiment' (single filigree x2: weapon + Minor artifact)

> +4: 'Raid: Eye of the Beholder/The Inevitable Grave' (single filigree x2: weapon + Minor artifact)

> +2: 'Eye of the Beholder' (single filigree x2: weapon + Minor artifact)

> +2: 'Otto's Irrevocable Power' (single filigree x2: weapon + Minor artifact)

> +1: 'The Serpent' (single filigree)

Spells/Potions/Scrolls

> +4 Alchemical bonus: 'Greater Evolution - Fox' (lvl 5 Alchemist spell)

> +2: 'Yugoloth: Essence of Cunning' (potion)

Airship Buffs

> +2: 'Paradoxical Puzzle Box'

Reaper bonus

> +1: Dire Thaumaturge tree 'Reaper's Arcanum III [C3]' {this works out of reaper mode too}

Note: it takes 11 reaper points to acquire this. I am mindful this is not something everyone will have access to, but I listed it since it seems like a goal that can potentially be achieved in the short term.

Total = 97/43+

> buffable to 99/44+

Spells/Potions/Scrolls

> +2: 'Lasting Elixir of ability' (potion) {I personally use on high reapers only}

Some comments on 'Spell DCs: hybrids vs pure casters' in this post.

Enjoy!

Warned · Sep 24, 2024

@Kalibano Correcting my earlier statement after a reddit thread had someone confirm Arcane Actions works for him right now, will probably get to testing it myself in the next few days

Edit: Just tested it. Can confirm it works, but is a bit laggy so you get MAYBE 3-4 seconds with it. usually get 1-2 casts at best.

Kalibano · Sep 24, 2024

Warned said:
@Kalibano Correcting my earlier statement after a reddit thread had someone confirm Arcane Actions works for him right now, will probably get to testing it myself in the next few days

Edit: Just tested it. Can confirm it works, but is a bit laggy so you get MAYBE 3-4 seconds with it. usually get 1-2 casts at best.

That's great to know, thanks for posting back to share this.

I'm quite set on keeping the extra Spell DCs, but Arcane Actions remains a strong option for those who perhaps have more past lives and other rare bonuses to afford missing out on the Spell Speciality feat and/or wish to focus a bit more on spell power at the cost of some DCs.

Thanks again!

Kalibano · Sep 26, 2024

Extra info and breakdowns added to this

section of the main post (also added below for ease of access):

M. Survivability & Defenses (after all, soul stones do zero dps):

> Both images above

include:

> +8 CON Tome

> Rage potion

> Temporary HPs: Dino weapon Brighthorn 'Affirmation'

> Values @ lvl 32, out of reaper mode

> Additionally, the bottom image above

includes:

> extra temporary HPs: Primal Avatar's 'Shard Storm [T2]' upgraded by 'At Its Core: Thorn [T3]'

> % Hit Points bonus = +25-30%:

Competence bonus

> +15%: Vile Chemist's 'Chemical Body [T5]'

Legendary bonus

> +10%: set bonus

Insightful bonus

> +5%: Primal Avatar [T4] (*after using a shrine)

> Damage Avoidance

> Dodge chance = 42% {capped @43%}

Feats

> +2%: Monk's 'Flurry of Blows' {2% at monk levels 1, 2, and 4}

> +12%: Monk's 'Ultimate Ocean Stance'

Heroic

> +8%: Vile Chemist [C2-5, 2% each] {while in Orchidium Reaction}

Gear bonuses (inc Set bonuses)

> +14%: enhancement bonus

> +6%: insightful bonus

> Dodge Cap = 43%

Base

> 25%

Feats

> +8%: Monk's 'Ultimate Ocean Stance'

Heroic

> +8%: Vile Chemist [C2-5, 2% each] {while in Orchidium Reaction}

Airship buffs

> +2%: 'Fencing Master'

> Incorporeality = 10%

Augments (inc Set bonuses)

> +10: 'Legendary Wraithborn Emerald'

> Concealment = 50%

> Alchemist's 'Displacement Draught' (spell)

Some info on how incorporeality (e.g. Ghostly) and concealment (e.g. Blur and Displacement) are reduced in reaper mode.
My understanding is that this info is based on player testing, not officially from the Devs. Info below (inc link) from the DDO Wiki:

> Deflect Arrows (1 projectile every 6s):

> Vistani's 'Knife Jugler [C2]'

> Damage Reduction

> PRR = 213 {68.05% less dmg from slashing, bludgeoning and piercing attacks}

Breakdown:

Armor

> +0: Cloth armor PRR

Feats

> +36: 'Orchidium Reaction' (passively granted @ lvl 1, +2 PRR per Alchemist level}

> +20: 'Scion of the Plane of Earth' (taken @ lvl 30)

> +3: 'Embodiment of Law' (taken @ lvl 31)

Heroic Enhancements

Alchemist - Vile Chemist

> +20: Cores 2-5 (Core 1 states: Each Core Ability you take in this tree beyond the first grants +5 Physical Resistance Rating)

> +8: 'Unbreakable Ambition [T4]' {while in Orchidium Reaction}

Vistani Knife Fighter

> +12: 'Mist Stalker [T1-4]'

> +10: 'Vistani Fortune [C5]'

Monk - Henshin Mystic

> +3: 'Riddle of Fire [C1]'

Spells

> +6 Deflection bonus: Alchemist's 'Augment Armor' (lvl 2 spell)

Gear bonuses (inc Set bonuses)

> +30 artifact bonus (set bonus)

> +0 profane bonus

> +33 enhancement bonus

> +16 insightful bonus

> +8 quality bonus

Filigrees

> +3: 'Otto's Irrevocable Power' (single filigree)

Sub-total 1 = 208

Gear: Mythic bonuses

> +1 necklace

> +1 bracers

> +1 boots

> +2 armor

Sub-total 2 = 213 (as per current live game)

> buffable to 295:

[+82: Orchidium reaction 'spike' {for 12s, PRR bonus equal to (10 + (Alchemist Level x 4)}

> MRR = 50 (capped)

> Defensive Roll (feat): when below 20% HP, each time you are struck with an attack there is a percentage chance equal to your Reflex save that the attack does half main damage, and its special effects are negated (as if you were blocking)

> Vile Chemist's 'Brushed Aside [T5]'

> Reflex Saves = 107+

> Physical damage absorption:

> Draconic Incarnation's 'Scales of the Dragon [T3]'

> Alchemist's 'Goldskin Potion' + 'Stoneskin Potion (spells)

> Elemental resistance/protection

> +15 alchemical bonus: Alchemist's 'Elemental skin' (spell)

> +30 enhancement bonus: Wands of Resist Energy (11th)

> +325 protection from Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid and Sonic

> Scrolls of Mass Protection from Elements (Caster level 13), buffed by:

> Primal Avatar's 'Weathering the Elements [C3]': Your Protection from Energy spells now apply 25 points of Energy Protection per Caster Level

> Energy Absorption

Epic Destinies

> +15% {Fire, Cold, Acid, Electric and Poison}

> Primal Avatar's 'Weathering the Elements [C3]' {permanent}

Airship buffs

> +15% {Fire}: 'Sign of the Silver Flame' {permanent}

> +15% {Acid & Cold}: 'Shrine to the Devourer' {permanent}

> +15% {Electric & Sonic}: 'Stormreaver Memorial' {permanent}

> Immunities:

> Fear Immunity: Vistani's 'Mist Stalker III [T3]'

> Energy Drain Immunity: Vistani's 'Mist Stalker IV [T4]'

I share some strategies for general defensiveness and survival in this thread. Come visit if you feel it could be useful to you!

Kalibano · Nov 13, 2024

Aims of the Build
The sub-sections within have been updated for several builds (inc this one):

The sub-sections within have been updated for several builds (inc this one):

extra info has been included (particularly for spell casting):
- the specific save throw for each spell (e.g. Necromancy {vs Will Save})
  - I've tried to make spells with NO Save a bit more visible and easy to identify
- crowd control spells: a brief description of the specific crowd control each spell/ability/effect does
  - though I have relied on the wiki + my personal knowledge/experience for this, I have tried to make it more visible and easier to identify spells that cause helplessness (of the type that causes enemies to take extra damage).
- I am still refraining from providing specific damage numbers, since these are prone to being adjusted frequently, and would take a very long time to keep up-to-date. So spells will say 'does negative damage per caster level', rather then specific numbers and dice.

similar info has been collated together and displayed under one heading
- dmg spells are are organised
  1. firstly by damage type
  2. then by AoE and Single-target sub-sections
  3. then by the spell School
    - within each spell school section, spells were further organised by being grouped together under headings for the specific save throw vs their DC
- non-damage spells were organised as above from item 2 onwards

I hope this proves useful to anyone who uses my builds.

Below

is a sample of what I described above from my Wizard Necromancer build (NOT from this build):

Primary aim(s):
1. Insta-kill enemies (9 spells)

> AoE (3):

Necromancy {vs Reflex, followed by Fort Save}

> Wizard spell

> 'Circle of Death'

Necromancy {vs Fort Save}

> Wizard spell

> 'Wail of the Banshee'

Necromancy {vs Will Save}

> Wizard spell

> vs undead: 'Undeath to death'

> Single target (6):

NO Save

> Wizard spell

> 'Power Word: Kill'

Illusion {vs Will, followed by Fort Saves}

> Wizard spell

> 'Phantasmal Killer' x3 on separate cooldowns!

Necromancy {vs Fort Save}

> Wizard spell

> 'Finger of Death'

Conjuration {vs Will Save}

> Wizard spell

> 'Trap the Soul'

Secondary aim(s):
2. Crowd Control:

> AoE:

NO Save

> Magus of Eclipse:

> 'Dark Light of the Moon: Starlight [T3]' {slows the movement of non-boss enemies that enter it by 20%}

> 'Dark Moonlight: Nightwind [C4]' {enemies who take dmg inside your Dark Light zone have a 5% chance to be Frozen for 10s}

> 'Time Stop [T5]' {enemies in a small area are paralyzed and helpless with no save for 10s}

> Dino crafting:

> 'Salt effect' {attacks and offensive spells have a chance to significantly slow your enemies}

Illusion {vs Will Save}

> Deep Gnome:

> 'Greater Color Spray [T2]' {{enemies are sprayed with illusions of color to be Dazed, Blinded, and/or Silenced. Dazed effect by this spell won't be removed by damage, and causes helplessness. Saving throw for each effect}

Necromancy {vs Will Save}

> Wizard spell:

> vs undead: 'Hault undead' {renders undead targets in range immobile for 6s per caster level}

Note: NO Save vs non-intelligent Undead

Enchantment {vs Will Save}

> Wizard spells:

> 'Mass Hold Monster' {multiple enemies become held in place, causing helplessness, for a max of 6s per caster level}

> 'Otto's Dance Sphere' {A magical sphere that compels all enemies who enter it to dance}

> 'Symbol of Stunning' {All targets entering the area of effect are Stunned for 6d6s or until the symbol expires}

Conjuration {vs Reflex Save, followed by a Strength check every 2s}

> Wizard spell:

> 'Web' {creates a many-layered mass of strong, sticky strands that entangle targets within them}

> Single-target:

Necromancy {vs Will Save}

> Magus of Eclipse:

> 'Gloomspear: Greater Beams [T4]' {paralyzes for 12 seconds}

Enchantment {vs Will Save}

> Wizard spells:

> 'Otto's Irresistible Dance' {a single enemy feels an undeniable urge to dance}

> 'Dominate Person' {controls the actions of any humanoid creature through a telepathic link that you establish with the subject’s mind. The creature will follow you throughout the dungeon}

Transmutation {vs Fort Save}

> Wizard spell:

> 'Flesh to Stone' {turns a single fleshy target into a mindless, inert statue in a Petrified condition, causing helplessness}

3. Enemy de-buffs (all NO save}:

NO save

> Strip undead target's Negative energy immunity (for 20s):

> Pale Master's 'Unholy Avatar [T4]'

> Reduce Spell Resistance:

> Magus of the Eclipse:

> 'Gloomspear [T1]' {3 stacks of shattermantle}

> 'Flash of the Eclipse [T2]' {chance to apply 1 stack of shattermantle, can only strike once every 5 secs}

> 'Nullmagic strike [T3]' {-4 Spell Resistance: 15% chance on offensive spellcast}

> Inflict stacks of Vulnerability:

> Magus' 'Gloomspear: Lunar Imbuement [T3]' {5 stacks}

4. Moderate offensive casting: Mainly Negative + Acid + Force (some Cold):

> Negative damage:

> AoE spells/abilities/effects:

NO Save

> Magus of the Eclipse:

> 'Dark Light of the Moon [T2]' {while inside the zone, every 2s for 10s, 25s cooldown}

> 'Dark Light of the Moon: Starlight [T3]' {on expiration, the zone explodes, dealing damage per Caster Level to enemies within}

> Destiny Mantle upgraded by 'Flash of the Eclipse [T2]' {Negative spells have a chance to blast your target for additional negative damage per Character Level. Can only strike once every 5s, tracked separately from the Cold spell proc}

Necromancy {vs Fort Save}

> Pale Master:

> 'Necrotic Blast [T5]'

> Wizard spell:

> 'Negative Energy Burst'

> Greater + 'regular' + Lesser: 'Death Auras'

> Single-target spells/abilities/effects:

NO Save

> Wizard Damage over Time (DoT) spells:

> 'Rend the Soul'

> 'Enervation'

> Magus of the Eclipse:

> Destiny Mantle upgraded by 'Flash of the Eclipse [T2]' {Negative spells have a chance to blast your target for additional Negative damage per Character Level. Can only strike once every 5s, tracked separately from the Cold spell proc}

Necromancy {vs Reflex Save}

> Magus of the Eclipse:

> 'Moon's Shadow [T5]'

Necromancy {vs Will Save}

> Magus of the Eclipse:

> 'Gloomspear [T1]' {damage is increased significantly vs enemies with 0 or less Spell Resistance}

Necromancy {vs Fort Save}

> Pale Master:

> 'Necrotic Bolt [T3]'

> 'Necrotic Touch [T1]'

> Wizard spell:

> 'Necrotic Ray'

> Acid damage:

> AoE spells/abilities/effects:

NO Save

> Primal Avatar

> 'Shard Storm [T2]' [Acid + Poison]

Conjuration {vs Fort Save}

> Wizard spells:

> 'Acid Well'

> 'Cloudkill'

> Force damage:

> AoE spells/abilities/effects:

Evocation {vs Reflex Save}

> Wizard spell:

> 'Arcane Tempest'

> Single-target spells/abilities/effects:

NO Save

> Epic feat:

> 'Arcane Pulse' upgraded by Magus of the Eclipse 'Unholy Pulse [T4]' to stack up to 7 times

> Past Life feat (purchased):

> 'Arcane Initiate' {Magic Missile spell, 10 charges, no spell point cost}

Necromancy {vs Reflex Save}

> Archmage:

> 'Arcane Bolt [T3]' {this spell benefits from the highest of your spell schools to determine its DC}

> Cold damage:

> Single-target spells/abilities/effects:

NO Save

> Wizard spells:

> 'Polar Ray'

> 'Niac's Biting Cold'

> Magus of the Eclipse:

> Destiny Mantle upgraded by 'Flash of the Eclipse [T2]' {Cold spells have a chance to blast your target for additional Cold damage per Character Level. Can only strike once every 5s, tracked separately from the Negative spell proc}

Enjoy!

Frantik · Dec 4, 2024

Hey Kalibano,

Read this build last week and it got me thinking (danger of overheating as always!). I really like SDK. A few questions if you don't mind...
Why did you decide to go Dragonbreath epic strike over PA's Carrion Swarm? I think CS is better DPS. Perhaps a larger immediate effect on a less tanky build?
With both PA mantle/Ever Green and DI's Wellspring buff, so lots of temp spell points, did you not consider opting for T5 in Draconic? Ruins and synergy with Venom Concentration...

And finally your thoughts on this... was thinking of a more tanky version for Cormyr first lifer and would love your feedback (AP is very tight)...
SDK 15 Artificer 3 Alchemist 2 Rogue (INT based) - poison imbue tanky trapper (but not a tank!)
This is the best build I can think of with 84 AP:

T5 Renegade (34 AP) dropping 1 INT and cure crit wounds SLA
Harper KtA (7 AP) KtA duration 1 min
Vile Chemist (11 AP) for imbue, melee and SLA poison strippers
Assassin (8 AP) for +3 imbue
SDK (18 AP)
VKF (6 AP) for Deflect Arrows

The 1 min KtA is a pita and the max CD Wave of Poison SLA too, but what can you do. Or I could drop Deflect Arrows and max out KtA and Wave of Poison instead. Oh what to do!?

Epics (first thoughts):

PA 22 AP (4 cores, mantle, epic strike)
DI 35 AP (everything except Venom Concentration duh)
MT 13

All 3 EDs would bag me +3 imbue
+9 EDs
+2 from Harbinger
+3 from Legendary feat (Earth)
imbue +1 from Vile Chemist 2nd core and lvl 3 Alch
+3 from Assassin
+3 set bonus
+2 Arti spell
total +23

Maybe +1 from Epic Destiny feat and 1 or 2 more from Filigrees.

Heroic Feats: Shieldx3, Contruct Essencex2, Quicken/Max/Empower, Imp Crit, Precision
Epic Feats: Wellspring of Power, Perma haste, Ruin, Gruin + another (construct exemplar or intensify?)
Destiny Feats: +1 Imbue, Doublestrike, Epic Spell Power Acid/Poison, Perfect Shield Mastery
Legendary: Scion of the Plane of Earth

Also thinking of going large shield over SWF for legendary +15% health bonus and +10 doublestrike for chains.
Main (only?) cc will be Tactical Detonation.

Thanks.

Kalibano · Dec 4, 2024

Frantik said:
Hey Kalibano,

Read this build last week and it got me thinking (danger of overheating as always!). I really like SDK. A few questions if you don't mind...
...

Thanks.

Hey Frantik

Happy to share some thoughts:

Why did you decide to go Dragonbreath epic strike over PA's Carrion Swarm? I think CS is better DPS. Perhaps a larger immediate effect on a less tanky build?

Ref Carrion Sworm vs Dragon breath:

Dragon breath: Energy Vortex:
- [wiki, since game is down now]: 1d6+5 POISON damage per Character level, every 3 seconds for 15 seconds
- 25% chance to paralyze enemies caught within them with fear for 6 seconds with no save (Daunting roar): this procs very frequently, and is super useful
  - side note: Daunting Roar is a key reason why I also use poison breath and gold breath (chance to paralyse)
Carrion Swarm
- [wiki, since game is down now]: 1d6+1 Acid and 1d6+1 Poison damage per 2 character levels (stacks 3 times), every 2 seconds for 8 seconds
- the dmg is per 2 character levels: I have not done the math for this, but it seems to indicate less dmg due to difference per char lvl and since only half dmg output deals poison dmg (where heavy investment was made)
- the need to build up stacks to deal high damage is perhaps the most off-putting to me personally, because it requires too much clicking
- in the event I don't get to top-up the stack, it lasts nearly half the time Dragon Breath does. To me personally, the longer a spell lasts doing dmg passively for me, the better overall, cause I can focus on poking things with my daggers

Further notes on my hybrid playstyle:
The way I personally like to play melee/caster hybrids is doing lots of melee attacking while casting some passively reccuring damaging spells.
There is a real danger of ending up casting too many spells and feeling like melee dmg is 'getting on the way' or 'an annoyance'. In this case, it's better to simply go pure caster.

So melee dmg is the basic bread and butter, with high spell power for the imbue die and the extra procs from the PA mantle (both via melee attacks and spellcasting).

High spell power (as per above, already there for the imbues + PA mantle), naturally leads to some spellcasting.
The key spells that are quick to cast and keep doing damage for me passively while I use the daggers are:
Dragon Breath Vortex {every 3 seconds for 15 seconds}
Shard Storm {6 strikes over 6 seconds}
Greater Wave of Poison {every 2 seconds for 16 seconds}
Wave of Poison {every 2 seconds for 12 seconds}

That's lots of clicks to do in between melee fighting, but I personally find them worth clicking.

With both PA mantle/Ever Green and DI's Wellspring buff, so lots of temp spell points, did you not consider opting for T5 in Draconic? Ruins and synergy with Venom Concentration...

Ref Primal Avatar T5 vs Draconic Incarnation T5

I find Draconic Incarnation T5 really 'meh' overall, but it would be hard to deny this is a strong tree for a pure nuker.
However, this is a melee hybrid, so going DI would end up adding 2 very costly extra single-target clicks (without dmg metamagics, since I can only fit DC metas), at the detriment of melee attacking. And there are a lot of clicks already: in addition to the damage spells listed above, I cast pretty frequently:
Mass Frog
Single Frog
Glue Bomb
Flash Freeze
Vistani's 'Fan of Knives'

I love PA T5, and would not give up Mass Frog for the Ruins. The PA Epic moment is really cool on a melee character as it does dmg passively in an aura while you get on with melee fighting. The T5 Thorn Walker summon, benefitting from the shared mantle, does some decent dmg, and though it does not move with you, the summon cooldown is super short, so u can cast more than once per encounter.

Hope these helped understand the choices I've made

And finally your thoughts on this... was thinking of a more tanky version for Cormyr first lifer and would love your feedback (AP is very tight)...
SDK 15 Artificer 3 Alchemist 2 Rogue (INT based) - poison imbue tanky trapper (but not a tank!)
This is the best build I can think of with 84 AP:

T5 Renegade (34 AP) dropping 1 INT and cure crit wounds SLA
Harper KtA (7 AP) KtA duration 1 min
Vile Chemist (11 AP) for imbue, melee and SLA poison strippers
Assassin (8 AP) for +3 imbue
SDK (18 AP)
VKF (6 AP) for Deflect Arrows

The 1 min KtA is a pita and the max CD Wave of Poison SLA too, but what can you do. Or I could drop Deflect Arrows and max out KtA and Wave of Poison instead. Oh what to do!?

Epics (first thoughts):

PA 22 AP (4 cores)
DI 35 AP (everything except Venom Concentration duh)
MT 13

All 3 EDs would bag me +3 imbue
+9 EDs
+2 from Harbinger
+3 from Legendary feat
imbue +1 from Alch
+3 from Assassin
+3 set bonus
total +21

Maybe +1 from Epic Destiny feat and 1 or 2 more from Filigrees.

Also thinking of going more shield than SWF for legendary health bonus +15/20% and +10 doublestrike for chains.
Main (only?) cc will be Tactical Detonation.

Click to expand...

Ref the build you shared:

I don't normally play Hard Core (and despite being VIP, have not gone to Cormyr). Whenever I did hardcore (I got the bloody footprints), I have always gone more tanky, like you are aiming for. My choice has always been pure paladin, because you can be super tanky and do v nice DPS going T5 Vanguard, around T3 KotC and a bunch in Sacred Defender. Bastard sword being a nice option, especially with PDK, or Dwarven Axes with the dwarf race: both for strikethrough, while also doing shield bashes and benefitting from shield feats.

I am a bit rusty with building for hard-core style play, but I am happy to share some first impression thoughts. Likely I will end up thinking too much about the viability at endgame, but I can't help myself there: I always build with the endgame in mind, as I don't subscribe to the TR hamster wheel

Hope it ends up being somewhat helpful:

I always start from the main aim for the build. From your description, I wasn't able to be certain of what your main aim will be:
- to be a tank in quests/raids? Or a tanky melee DPS character ( and a secondary stretch aim of trapping skills)?
- You mentioned Tactical detonation for CC, which implies the need for heavy investment in spell DCs. This would entail a hybrid character, and hybrids are quite hard to build
- my sincere feeling is that you might be trying to cram a bit too much in there with tanky, melee dps and viable casting. It might end up working, especially if heroic levelling is the main aim, testing it in game would be the best way to be sure ofc

melee/caster hybrids need a strong melee dps tree and lots and lots of investment in spell DCs
- on my melee/caster hybrids, I tend to go with a strong melee tree as the main tree
- you might find renegade Mastermaker as your main tree a bit lackluster in the melee DPS aspect, and I'm not sure if 11 Vile Chemist APs would be enough to grant that strong boost to the melee DPS aspect
- Chains have strong DPS, but I have not found them strong enough to not need to invest in DPS focused tree. I am speaking mostly of endgame, where I play the vast majority of the time. For levelling purposes, quite possible it would be sufficient

The second thing I tend to think about is weapon type, which normally leads to a synergistic combat style
- you mention wanting to use chains: SWF seems the best combat style because the super fast attack speed is used by the chains, and you'll do imbue dmg each time it hits
- it wasn't clear what weapon you are planning to use. If you do decide to go SWF, you could perhaps consider bastard swords for the extra dmg via strikethrough (you could take spell spec: two-handed fighting at level 31)
- I'd personally go for rune arms, as it adds some really nice dmg (not only the blasts, but it also imbues your weapon with extra dmg that scales with spell power), and this would synergise strongly with MT destiny AND RM, which grants defensive tanky boosts while wearing rune arms
- there's always the option of using a raid augment for the 10% Leg HPs. Again, I am speaking of endgame, sorry,

I am very curious as to why go poison with this build? So many things are immune/resistant to it, and I am not certain you would have enough immunity bypass with only 11 APs in Vile Chemist (considering cooldowns). It might mean waiting on the cooldown of the 'Poisoned Strike' and 'Wave of Poison'
- Poison: I don't personally feel a strong synergy with the artificer class.
- You'd probably do better with electric, since artis have elec imbue, and you have support for that in PA too
- Battle engineer is an awesome tree, and could work as your main DPS tree (instead of RM as your main tree)?
- your investment in Vile Chemist could go into RM instead?

Hope this was somewhat useful!

Frantik · Dec 4, 2024

Thank you for such a detailed reply, Kalibano... and yes, it has helped as you detail and explain things extremely well

I'll detail the reasons behind my choices and explain how your reply has helped me.

Why Artificer Renegade Mastermaker and not, for example, Battle Engineer for a hybrid melee/caster?
Survivability: +6 CON, +90 health from cores, +30% (approx) health, Regenerate SLA, self-repair "HoT" and a cleave (i don't go for the INT based abilities from the RM tree). For a chain build, I don't see much synergy from BE to be perfectly honest.

DCs... I cannot agree more with what you wrote, and your explanations above in this thread are extremely clear and detailed. And here comes the first point where your reply has seriously helped me; Carrion Swarm does not do more damage than Dragonbreath and I miscalculated it in my head... just ran the numbers in a spreadsheet and DB is about +20/25% more damage depending on which reference you take (DB or CS). I also take on board the utility of the Daunting Roar 25% paralyze ability which coupled with a 3 second CD vortex around player must be very good. For info, does Energy Vortex still fail if initial tick has not targetted an enemy? Must keep that in mind! Also, and here I forgot, Carrion Swarm now has a hugely disappointing save which as my build's DCs will struggle, wouldn't be optimal. You have convinced me to change epic strikes! IIRC (and that doesn't happen every week) Shard Storm has no save? I'm also now thinking of dropping Tactical Detonation and taking Deadly Weapons instead. Ugh!

The reason I would (and am planning to) go T5 Draconic Incarnation is for the non save Ruin and Gruin spells; sure they are expensive at 75 and 150 spell points a pop, even before meta's are added (65 extra with all 4 metas) but that's where not spamming them unless totally needed and with extra 340 temp spell points for 1 min from improved Wellspring plus the frequent +100 temporary spell points from Ever Green come in very handy. Coupled with DI's cores, a few EDP invested into meta cost reduction, it is easily manageable, i find.

My (so far) revised build is 15 arti 4 Alch 1 Rogue (I built this one in my head and started with 2 rogue for evasion and totally forgot about losing access from RM T4 extra CON/MRR ability). 4 Alch provides an extra feat which i may copy your approach and take Battalion Brew as a cheap (AP) option

I realise that your build has far more cc, and for good reason as you have clearly explained earlier in this thread) but I think mine will be fine in terms of melee DPS with the imbues and the 2 chain attacks.

What you did however make me sit up and take notice was the choice of going down the shield mastery path... i reread your OP and ofc you underline the reasons why you used a +1 Heart of Wood for level 1 feat choice (what's worse is that deep down I already knew this) by swapping out rogue from SDK. I thunk about this, then rethunk more, and i may be leaning towards SWF and ofc taking a rune arm for the extra weapon damage mostly. I also have read on other threads the benefit of taking SWF with a chain build but tbh I don't understand why. Do the 3 attacks occur slightly faster and therefore slightly reducing the cycle CD respectively? Please explain as you would to a slow child. Thanks!

So, my version will be a "tanky" toon, but not a tank. My role will be a trapper with immunities (similar to yours) excellent self repair, good health pool for a first lifer, displacement and 2 chain attacks oozing with poison imbues. WIll probably need to spam Tensor's Transformation. I quickly reshuffled my heroic AP spend on the train back home and now I'm going to spew it out here:

RM 36 (+2 INT)
VKF 13 (+1 INT)
SDK 18 (+1 INT)
VC 17 (+1 INT)

I will lose 3 imbue die from Assassin and the Harper Agent Trance (boo).
I have abandonned all thoughts of needing high DCs (i woke up!).
I have changed my feat selection:
Heroic (11): Quicken/Max/Emp, 2 constructs, BB, SWFx3, Precision, Improved Critical
Epic: Wellspring, Intensify, Ruin, Gruin, Blinding Speed (as before)
Destiny: Perfect SWF, Doublestrike, Harbinger of Chaos, Titan's Blood +1 (now thinking about Arcane Warrior!).

Thanks again for your help.

Kalibano · Dec 4, 2024

Frantik said:
Thank you for such a detailed reply, Kalibano... and yes, it has helped as you detail and explain things extremely well

I'll detail the reasons behind my choices and explain how your reply has helped me.

Why Artificer Renegade Mastermaker and not, for example, Battle Engineer for a hybrid melee/caster?
Survivability: +6 CON, +90 health from cores, +30% (approx) health, Regenerate SLA, self-repair "HoT" and a cleave (i don't go for the INT based abilities from the RM tree). For a chain build, I don't see much synergy from BE to be perfectly honest.

DCs... I cannot agree more with what you wrote, and your explanations above in this thread are extremely clear and detailed. And here comes the first point where your reply has seriously helped me; Carrion Swarm does not do more damage than Dragonbreath and I miscalculated it in my head... just ran the numbers in a spreadsheet and DB is about +20/25% more damage depending on which reference you take (DB or CS). I also take on board the utility of the Daunting Roar 25% paralyze ability which coupled with a 3 second CD vortex around player must be very good. For info, does Energy Vortex still fail if initial tick has not targetted an enemy? Must keep that in mind! Also, and here I forgot, Carrion Swarm now has a hugely disappointing save which as my build's DCs will struggle, wouldn't be optimal. You have convinced me to change epic strikes! IIRC (and that doesn't happen every week) Shard Storm has no save? I'm also now thinking of dropping Tactical Detonation and taking Deadly Weapons instead. Ugh!

The reason I would (and am planning to) go T5 Draconic Incarnation is for the non save Ruin and Gruin spells; sure they are expensive at 75 and 150 spell points a pop, even before meta's are added (65 extra with all 4 metas) but that's where not spamming them unless totally needed and with extra 340 temp spell points for 1 min from improved Wellspring plus the frequent +100 temporary spell points from Ever Green come in very handy. Coupled with DI's cores, a few EDP invested into meta cost reduction, it is easily manageable, i find.

My (so far) revised build is 15 arti 4 Alch 1 Rogue (I built this one in my head and started with 2 rogue for evasion and totally forgot about losing access from RM T4 extra CON/MRR ability). 4 Alch provides an extra feat which i may copy your approach and take Battalion Brew as a cheap (AP) option

I realise that your build has far more cc, and for good reason as you have clearly explained earlier in this thread) but I think mine will be fine in terms of melee DPS with the imbues and the 2 chain attacks.

What you did however make me sit up and take notice was the choice of going down the shield mastery path... i reread your OP and ofc you underline the reasons why you used a +1 Heart of Wood for level 1 feat choice (what's worse is that deep down I already knew this) by swapping out rogue from SDK. I thunk about this, then rethunk more, and i may be leaning towards SWF and ofc taking a rune arm for the extra weapon damage mostly. I also have read on other threads the benefit of taking SWF with a chain build but tbh I don't understand why. Do the 3 attacks occur slightly faster and therefore slightly reducing the cycle CD respectively? Please explain as you would to a slow child. Thanks!

So, my version will be a "tanky" toon, but not a tank. My role will be a trapper with immunities (similar to yours) excellent self repair, good health pool for a first lifer, displacement and 2 chain attacks oozing with poison imbues. WIll probably need to spam Tensor's Transformation. I quickly reshuffled my heroic AP spend on the train back home and now I'm going to spew it out here:

RM 36 (+2 INT)
VKF 13 (+1 INT)
SDK 18 (+1 INT)
VC 17 (+1 INT)

I will lose 3 imbue die from Assassin and the Harper Agent Trance (boo).
I have abandonned all thoughts of needing high DCs (i woke up!).
I have changed my feat selection:
Heroic (11): Quicken/Max/Emp, 2 constructs, BB, SWFx3, Precision, Improved Critical
Epic: Wellspring, Intensify, Ruin, Gruin, Blinding Speed (as before)
Destiny: Perfect SWF, Doublestrike, Harbinger of Chaos, Titan's Blood +1 (now thinking about Arcane Warrior!).

Thanks again for your help.

Hi Frantik,

You do seem to be thinking things through in a lot of detail, which is a great thing, so there is definitely good potential for your build to work the way you are envisioning it, to fit your playstyle too.

I find the best way to fine-tune builds is to take them into the game world and go to endgame with them

Then tweak as necessary, either with lesser TRs, or a full TR (if drastic changes like a different race seems better).

In the event this

proves helpful, even if only for some inspiration:
I have an arti build I am working on at the moment. I planned and started it upon the release of Machrotecnic, but I parked him at level 15 to farm heroic Myth Drannor gear on reaper mode. He's likely to stay there for a while, as I am now working on my Warlock that got TRed into a Carceri build. It's how it goes with someone like me, who has his hands on too many pies: I jump from one focus to another depending on what gets released in the game (or on my personal interests).

I don't normally share builds in the forums that I haven't fully tried-and-tested (by this I mean run all the way to end game, tweak until it fulfils its aims and I am happy with it in my playstyle). It's just that the way you describe what you are trying to achieve seems kinda similar to what I had in mind for mine, at least in some respects. So, against my best judgement, I'll share the DDOBuilder file here in the forums (count it as a sneak-peak

). It was planned until level 32 only, so not with Myth Drannor extra feats and Epic Destiny points.

It's a pure arti melee/caster hybrid. Some comments:

hybrid in the sense that it's aim is melee DPS, but it doesn't max this aspect to the detriment of min defenses and using spells just for buffs. It invests heavily in spell DCs, mainly for CCs, and since the CCs are based on evocation, there is the benefit of doing some spell dmg too (since the mobs won't save for half dmg, but there won't be room to boost them with dmg metas). The more you cast, the more melee power you gain via Arcane Warrior, and vice-versa (the more melee attacks, the more spellpower you gain)
Electric spellpower for all things that scale with it: imbue, rune arm imbue dmg, PA mantle, epic strike, arti spells, etc.
I went with Warhammers/Morningstars because I have a bunch of them and needed a build that would support them nicely. I would suggest going with bastard swords instead, and taking the Spec: THF feat for the strikethrough bonuses
I went Bladeforged (requires LR+1) for triple Reconstruct spells (but it's easy enough to use SDK instead)
- SLA T2 bladeforged
- SLA T4 RM
- Regular arti spell
it is quite tanky, as I do go quite a bit into RM and MT (RM's Mighty Slam + Battlefist and Kinetic Discharge are really cool)
all in all, the aspects where I thought were similar to what you seem to be aiming for:
- melee/caster hybrid (with a wide range of spells being used due to investment in DCs)
- imbue dmg
- some 'tankiness', but not to be a full tank
- trapping

Some screenshots:

Note: highly likely I will be swapping Divine Crusader out. Off the top of my head, some candidates are Leg Dreadnought and Shadowdancer.

Hope this gives some inspiration!

Kalibano · Dec 4, 2024

Frantik said:
....

I also have read on other threads the benefit of taking SWF with a chain build but tbh I don't understand why. Do the 3 attacks occur slightly faster and therefore slightly reducing the cycle CD respectively? Please explain as you would to a slow child. Thanks!

Thanks again for your help.

Nearly forgot to comment on this

So my understanding is that the chain attack animation was made to benefit/be affected from/by melee attack speed when SDK was revamped.
In the past it did not (much like the cleave feat), so every time you used it, it would slow you down (while the chain attack animation was taking place) in comparison to the attack speed you could reach with you regular attacks. This meant it was not very widely used.

The SWF style makes the chain attack animation happen up to 75% faster (while action boost is active), just like your regular melee attacks in this style:

+ 30% combat style bonus with SWF
+ 15% enhancement bonus (haste)
+ 30% action boost bonus (Haste Boost)

Non-SWF builds can normally only reach a max of 45% faster (while action boost is active):

+15% enhancement bonus (haste)
+ 30% action boost bonus (Haste Boost)

So you dish out a SUPER FAST cleave style attack that hits 3 times, and then the second chain attack SUPER fast, and then you can get on with regular melee attacks and/or spells.

The more effects you have that proc upon doing damage (e.g. Dripping with Magma, imbue toggle, rune arm weapon imbue, etc.) the more this fast chain becomes powerful, since you proc them 3 times per chain, and the attack animation is super fast, letting you use the second chain, and then do other things, all in very quick succession.

I believe each of the 3 hits of the chain attack can doublestrike, but I am not fully certain.

Hope this makes sense

Kalibano · Dec 21, 2024

Build update

In the recent Black Friday Sales, I got an excellent deal upgrading from Standard edition to the Vecna Ultimate Fan bundle ...

... so I now have a Universal tome (Morgrave) for all my characters. Well worth the wait for this price, and I got to enjoy the content/gear all long!

The following changes/additions

were made to this build:

+1 Tempest (new total = 1 AP):
- [C1] Shield of Whirling Steel: Morale bonus to Melee Power gained upon killing enemies now stacks 4 times

Heroic enhancements: 85 = 80 + 3 (Racial tomes) + 2 (Universal tome)

The sections/effect values/images that were affected have been updated accordingly in the original post.
The DDOBuilder (v2) file has also been updated with these changes.

The plan is still to spend at least 6 APs in the Harper tree to get the INT trance (rank 1), as per below

:

Kalibano said:
I've made some changes to heroic enhancements:

The original plan was to get the INT trance from the Harper tree, so 4 APs had been spent there.
Though I could potentially buy the Vecna universal tome, its +1 bonus would still not be enough to get at least 1 rank in the trance.

So 3 APs were removed from the Harper tree (1 must still be spent there, since I have the universal tome from Sharn)...

... and spent in the following trees , for the following gains:

> Deepwood Stalker (1 AP)
> +1 Sneak Attack dice
> +10 Positive Spell Power

> Henshin Mystic (1 AP)
> +1 imbue dice
> +3 Melee Power
> +3 PRR
> +2 Fire resistance
> enemies have -2 resistance vs fire spells (e.g. Gold Breath)

> Shadar-kai (+1 AP, new total = 4)
> Bleed damage {33% chance upon using Shadar-kai Spiked Chain}
> DoT every 2s, for 15s, scales with Melee Power

The original post and DDOBuilder file have updated to reflect these.

Note: in future, should I acquire enough extra universal tree action points, I am likely to revert those changes back to spend the points for the INT trance, since the insightful bonus to damage would be significant.

With the Morgrave Universal tome, there are now 5 APs left over, so still 1 short of the amount needed to get at least rank 1 in the trance.
In the meantime, the 5 APs have been temporarily spent:

01 Deepwood Stalker: +1 SA dice
01 Henshin Mystic: +3 MPw & PRR; +1 Imbue dice; +3 Fire resist
01 Shadar-Kai: Chain upgrade [33% to apply bleed DoT, every 2s for 15s, scales 200% melee power]
01 Tempest: +2 Sheltering & AC while dual-wielding
01 Harper: +1 hit & dmg, +1 hit vs evil; +1 USPw (needs to be spent, as this is a Universal [Sharn] tome)

Enjoy!

.

eartheyes · Jan 12, 2025

i have been wanting to try swf deep gnome vile chemist...looks like some inspiration to look through here

Kalibano · Mar 10, 2025

Major Build Update

With U72's Dragon Disciple allowing orbs to be used while centered, I am updating the build to use the SWF style with orbs.

The new SWF build is fully ready in the DDOBuilder file and already can be used.

The main post is now fully updated too (11 March 2025)
However, the main post of this thread is now under construction, so I can update the sections and images accordingly. Please don't use any info from the main post in this thread until the update is completed, as text and images will be changing frequently and without notice.

The previous TWF version of this build was last updated pre-U72 (March/2025), and will no longer be updated. The post with images and info about the build is being preserved in post #4 of this thread.

In case it proves useful, the build (inc gear set) is still available in the DDOBuilder file, under the tab 'Builds': (Life 2) B3: L34 - Shadar-Kai - 18 Alchemist, 1 Dark Hunter, 1 Monk, E10, L4

Vile-Chemist-melee-hybrid-DDOBuilder-previous-TWF-build.jpg

> The main changes that were made in comparison to the U72 build in the main post:

U72 and Dragon Disciple made it possible to be centered while using orbs
- orbs can potentially help support the caster aspect of the build more strongly
- orbs can be used in conjunction with the SWF style, creating some strong synergies:
  - SWF extra attack speed would be preferable for a build that has a good amount of imbue die: more hits due to faster attacks = more imbue damage
  - PSWF increases the vorpal threat range, which is also quite desirable
  - shadar-kai chain attack synergises strongly with the SWF style
  - Vistani's 'Single Dagger [T4]' grants a +20 Melee power bonus when fighting with a single dagger (rather than a bonus to simply increase chance to hit with the offhand)
    - hits with a TWF character's offhand weapon only receive half of the applicable Ability bonus to damage (Tempest Rangers are the only ones who can do full damage, with heavy investment @ tier 5), so SWF seems more synergistic overall
  - Vile Chemist's 'Stone of the Subliminal [T2]' grants +5% Doublestrike + Dbshot and perma Blur when wielding orbs
extra Dragon Disciple levels means I get evasion for free at DD level 2
- this freed up one feat slot (bonus alchemist feat Liquid Luck, which granted evasion), and with some feats moved around a bit, this became a feat to support the melee aspect of the build = Precision
- ideally I would have liked to pick up Overwhelming Critical at Epic levels instead, but the pre-reqs of the feats I take from level 9 onwards make it hard to move any of them earlier, to make room for an epic feat. Precision will do just fine for now
3 levels of Dragon Disciple (vs 1 monk level in the previous build below) grants an extra feat slot, and with some manouvering of the Greater Spell Focus feat to be taken earlier, it freed up a slot to take the Patience feat
- patience grants a very strong critical multiplier bonus, at the cost of attack speed penalty
  - the attack speed penalty is greatly mitigated by both
    - the +30% SWF combat style bonus to attack speed
    - and the +5% Vistani C6 attack speed bonus
There's the potential, if more universal tree tomes are released in the future, to grab:
- a bit more from the Dragon Disciple [e.g. Discipleship I [T2] = +1 imbue dice (1 AP)],
- or Ninja Spy (e.g. SA dice [T1-2], Dodge [T1], Max Dodge Cap [T2])
- or Shintao (e.g. Doublestrike [T1])

> The key losses with 2 less levels of Alchemist were:

-1 level 4 spell
- Hypnotic Combination: it's a shame to lose this, as apart from the highly synergist poison dmg, being a breath spell, there was an extra chance to proc the Draconic Incarnation's 'Daunting Roar [T3]' CC effect.
-1 level 5 spell
- Poison breath: it's a shame to lose this spell, as it
  - dealt AoE poison dmg,
  - applied the effect 'Contaminated'
  - being a breath spell, granted an extra chance to proc the Draconic Incarnation's 'Daunting Roar [T3]' CC effect.
- Nevertheless, the other level 5 spells to me felt much more significant to give up:
  - Turn to Frog,
  - Mass Flash to Gold,
  - AB: Haste,
  - Greater Evolution: Intelligence
-2 level 6 spells
- Goldskin Potion & Gold breath. losing these did not feel as bad: gold breath was mostly used as an extra chance to proc Daunting Roar, the dmg type was not fully synergistic. Goldskin is nice, but in higher difficulties, that kind of damage ablation is not always very successful in preventing death.
Vile Chemist's core 5 bonuses:
- -3 Doublestrike
- -5 Universal Spell Power
- -1 Imbue Dice
- While in Orchidium:
  - -5 Poison Spell power
  - -2 Dodge and Dodge Cap
-1 imbue dice (C2 grants +1 imbue die @Alch 6, 9, 12, 15 and 18)

Note about the new SWF build (still to be updated in the main post of this thread): annoyingly, Dark Hunter @ level 1, rather than Rogue, is required to achieve all the feats listed, so the new version of the build will need a +1 Lesser Reincarnation. From level 9 onwards, the feats can't be moved to earlier slots because of min level and/or BAB requirements. Having said so, LR+1 is definitely an improvement from the previous TWF build, which required a +3 LR, and since this is a character I keep permanently at endgame, to me personally, it's a cost worth paying.

Having said so, for those not willing to fork the cost of a LR+1, it should be possible to go with the first rogue level (since it's a requirement from the Shadar-Kai iconic race), by moving each mainstream feat from level 9-18 to a later slot, and

taking a new feat @ level 9
giving up one feat from level 21 upwards (to accommodate all feats moving upwards from level 9): perhaps the Grandmaster of Flowers feat @ level 21?

Kali's U72 Vile Chemist/Dragon Disciple HYBRID SWF Melee/Caster build

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!

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Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!

Active member

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!

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Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!

Well-known member

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!

outerspacetruth

Build Designer. Having fun since 2006!