L Dust vs SD debuff vs Dino

G

Graceunderpressure

Well-known member
I always assumed these were the same debuff, -PRR/MRR.

So when l got the Dino LS on my Pally, l switched out my SD thinking l didn’t need it anymore.

Now l’m looking at Myth LS with Magma and can add L Dust so thinking the same thing, it will replace that debuff again.

Am l understanding this correctly? Or would/ can these all actually stack with each other?

Thanks 😃
 
rabidfox

rabidfox

The People's Champion
Dino's debuffs are LGS debuffs (so dino's version of dust is just dust by a different name, same with ash, ooze, etc.); so those don't stack as it's the same thing. Shadow dancers debuff is a different debuff and stacks.
 
rabidfox

rabidfox

The People's Champion
Here's a giant list of different debuffs that a raid/party could be applying (vulnerability from multiple sources applies the stacks faster but don't increase the total number of stacks- not all vuln sources are listed here). There's also a few things missing from this list:

LGS(dino & raid weapons):
Dust -35 PRR / -100 HAMP (5 stacks of -7/-20)
Ash -21 mrr / 60 USP (3 stacks of -7/-20)
Ooze -10 prr/mrr
vulnerability 20% more damage (1% damage, 20% max stacks)


Filigrees:
Shattered device:
4 Pieces: Your Melee and Ranged attacks have a chance to reduce enemy PRR and MRR by 10 for 10 seconds.
5 pieces: Your Melee and Ranged attacks have a chance to reduce enemy Melee Power and Ranged Power by 10 for 10 seconds.

One Against Many:
4 Pieces: Melee attacks have a 30% chance to debuff enemies melee and ranged power by 20 for 10 seconds.


Epic destiny:
EA mantle -5 prr/mrr
EA shadows upon you -5 prr/mrr

SD darkness -9 prr/mrr (-3 prr/mrr stacks 3 times)
SD shadowloss -5 prr/mrr/spell resist (lasts 5 minutes)

Fatesinger Harmonic Resonance: 10% vulnerability to Sonic damage & -5 AC (stacks up to 3 times)


Classes:
Warlock:
Consume -10 prr/mrr/spell resist (-2 per stack, stacks 5 times)
Devour the Soul -20 PRR and MRR for 6 seconds, 15 second cooldown (doesn't need to land DCs, equivelent to -8 prr/mrr sustatained)
stricken -20 MP/RP/spellpower
stricken vuln stacks (1% damage, 20% max stacks)
taint the blood -4 fort save
Mindwrack: -4 Will saving (AotS archetype)

Monk:
Jade Strike Increases Physical Vulnerability by 10% and reduces fortification by 25%

Alch:
Melt Armor -4 PRR / -4 AC
Caustic Overload -5 PRR
Voltaic Burst -5 MRR


Various sources of fortification reduction:
Assassin's Trick (25%)
Cracking Attack (up to 20%)
Destruction (enchantment) (up to 15%), for example via Deconstructor
Expose Weakness (50%)
Improved Sunder feat (25%)
Insult (10%)
Mark of the Hunted active use (25%)
Shattering Strike (15%)
Shield of Condemnation (up to 50%)
Sunder feat (25%)
Touch of Despair (dark, dark, dark monk finisher) (25%)



Rogue https://ddowiki.com/page/Mechanic_enhancements
Ooze Flask:
reduces the Armor Class and PRR of your opponent by 2/4/8 for 30 seconds


https://ddowiki.com/page/Ameliorate is another. But it's bugged right now and only works on undead despite it's description to debuff all mobs (does debuff undead that it doesn't insta-kill correctly)
 
A

Abiding Dude

Well-known member
how does 20% vuln compare to -37PRR?

according to PRR table first 37PRR reduce damage by about 27%. But since PRR has an asymptotic curve, that could be less useful against enemies with high PRR. Does that exist somewhere? I know you ideally want both vuln and PRR, but if I'm just thinking about what I can carry myself for r10s or whatever...
 
rabidfox

rabidfox

The People's Champion
Abiding Dude said:
how does 20% vuln compare to -37PRR?

according to PRR table first 37PRR reduce damage by about 27%. But since PRR has an asymptotic curve, that could be less useful against enemies with high PRR. Does that exist somewhere? I know you ideally want both vuln and PRR, but if I'm just thinking about what I can carry myself for r10s or whatever...
Click to expand...
Mobs have 0 MRR & PRR to start with and each -1 is 1% more damage; so -37prr would be 37% more physical damage. With just one or the other, it would be 20% more damage vs 37% more physical damage.
 
S

Sarlona Raiding

Well-known member
rabidfox said:
Filigrees:
Shattered device:
4 Pieces: Your Melee and Ranged attacks have a chance to reduce enemy PRR and MRR by 10 for 10 seconds.
5 pieces: Your Melee and Ranged attacks have a chance to reduce enemy Melee Power and Ranged Power by 10 for 10 seconds.

One Against Many:
4 Pieces: Melee attacks have a 30% chance to debuff enemies melee and ranged power by 20 for 10 seconds.
Click to expand...

I would caution the OP that the melee and ranged power debuffs generally don't yield a good result as enemy melee and ranged power #s tend to be very high at legendary levels compared to PRR/MRR which is often 0 or much lower compared to melee/ranged power.

So you get a significant result from prr/mrr debuffs and vulnerability which a straight %, but the results of lowering enemy Melee and Ranged Power is often so small it's generally not worth taking.
 
D

Drachmor

Well-known member
rabidfox said:
Here's a giant list of different debuffs that a raid/party could be applying (vulnerability from multiple sources applies the stacks faster but don't increase the total number of stacks- not all vuln sources are listed here). There's also a few things missing from this list:

LGS(dino & raid weapons):
Dust -35 PRR / -100 HAMP (5 stacks of -7/-20)
Ash -21 mrr / 60 USP (3 stacks of -7/-20)
Ooze -10 prr/mrr
vulnerability 20% more damage (1% damage, 20% max stacks)


Filigrees:
Shattered device:
4 Pieces: Your Melee and Ranged attacks have a chance to reduce enemy PRR and MRR by 10 for 10 seconds.
5 pieces: Your Melee and Ranged attacks have a chance to reduce enemy Melee Power and Ranged Power by 10 for 10 seconds.

One Against Many:
4 Pieces: Melee attacks have a 30% chance to debuff enemies melee and ranged power by 20 for 10 seconds.


Epic destiny:
EA mantle -5 prr/mrr
EA shadows upon you -5 prr/mrr

SD darkness -9 prr/mrr (-3 prr/mrr stacks 3 times)
SD shadowloss -5 prr/mrr/spell resist (lasts 5 minutes)

Fatesinger Harmonic Resonance: 10% vulnerability to Sonic damage & -5 AC (stacks up to 3 times)


Classes:
Warlock:
Consume -10 prr/mrr/spell resist (-2 per stack, stacks 5 times)
Devour the Soul -20 PRR and MRR for 6 seconds, 15 second cooldown (doesn't need to land DCs, equivelent to -8 prr/mrr sustatained)
stricken -20 MP/RP/spellpower
stricken vuln stacks (1% damage, 20% max stacks)
taint the blood -4 fort save
Mindwrack: -4 Will saving (AotS archetype)

Monk:
Jade Strike Increases Physical Vulnerability by 10% and reduces fortification by 25%

Alch:
Melt Armor -4 PRR / -4 AC
Caustic Overload -5 PRR
Voltaic Burst -5 MRR


Various sources of fortification reduction:
Assassin's Trick (25%)
Cracking Attack (up to 20%)
Destruction (enchantment) (up to 15%), for example via Deconstructor
Expose Weakness (50%)
Improved Sunder feat (25%)
Insult (10%)
Mark of the Hunted active use (25%)
Shattering Strike (15%)
Shield of Condemnation (up to 50%)
Sunder feat (25%)
Touch of Despair (dark, dark, dark monk finisher) (25%)



Rogue https://ddowiki.com/page/Mechanic_enhancements
Ooze Flask:
reduces the Armor Class and PRR of your opponent by 2/4/8 for 30 seconds


https://ddowiki.com/page/Ameliorate is another. But it's bugged right now and only works on undead despite it's description to debuff all mobs (does debuff undead that it doesn't insta-kill correctly)
Click to expand...
There is also Divine Sundering from the final core in DC, which buffs improved sunder to an additional -25% fort, -10% AC, -3 saving throws
 
droid327

droid327

Hardcore casual soloist
Abiding Dude said:
how does 20% vuln compare to -37PRR?

according to PRR table first 37PRR reduce damage by about 27%. But since PRR has an asymptotic curve, that could be less useful against enemies with high PRR.
Click to expand...

Negative PRR is linear, not inverse. So -37% PRR just means +37% damage

rabidfox said:
Mobs have 0 MRR & PRR to start with and each -1 is 1% more damage; so -37prr would be 37% more physical damage. With just one or the other, it would be 20% more damage vs 37% more physical damage.
Click to expand...

But I think Vuln multiplies with -PRR/MRR, so if you had both that'd be 1.37 * 1.2 = 1.644 = 64.4% bonus damage

So the effective value is dependent
 
V

Vertigo

Well-known member
rabidfox said:
Here's a giant list of different debuffs that a raid/party could be applying (vulnerability from multiple sources applies the stacks faster but don't increase the total number of stacks- not all vuln sources are listed here). There's also a few things missing from this list:

LGS(dino & raid weapons):
Dust -35 PRR / -100 HAMP (5 stacks of -7/-20)
Ash -21 mrr / 60 USP (3 stacks of -7/-20)
Ooze -10 prr/mrr
vulnerability 20% more damage (1% damage, 20% max stacks)
Click to expand...

Isn´t there also Contricting Nightmare / Shadow Horn? I think it stacks with everything but itself and got its own icon in debuffs when applied. 10 prr/10 mrr
 
rabidfox

rabidfox

The People's Champion
Vertigo said:
Isn´t there also Contricting Nightmare / Shadow Horn? I think it stacks with everything but itself and got its own icon in debuffs when applied. 10 prr/10 mrr
Click to expand...
Contricting Nightmare is the same debuff as LGS ooze, but that version only applies via weapon hits (spell casts can't trigger it). Just like Mind Tear is ash (but doesn't get applied by spell cast). So they're the same debuff applied, but reduce methods to proc it.

Shadowhorn is LGS ooze minus the ooze summons. So same debuff, but no oozes running around; which can be nice for raids where agro from an ooze could be a problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top