Lamannia Preview - Adventure Pass

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all the voices in my head are my own
maybe the intent is to make it difficult to understand so folks go VIP to avoid the oddity of it all.

or maybe the intent is simply to add value to VIP, "free to VIP" was listed 5 times in original post, this is maybe marketing technique to all the folks who read this thread.
 

Matuse

Join Date: February 2006
I can easily see this pass thing completely flopping, but a few people buy 1 or 2 adventures out of the pack, and then the passes go away so those people end up having to pay full price for the entire pack to get the rest even though they already own some.

That's SSG marketing in action.

I see no upside to this plan. Who would want to buy 1 dungeon out of a pack? What's the point?
 

Icebeast

Active member
Maybe this is preparing us for the next expansion pack!
$140 pre pay and we will get one new quest a month for a year! And cosmetics of course.
 

Terranigma

Well-known member
I understand the marketing rational to goad people into pre-purchasing and simultaneously lessen the boon of the "Choose your own 30% item discount", and I assume this is being thrust onto DDO against their will, but I find this unnecessary. The cost of 40 DDO Points for a single quest's guest pass is also an odd price point when for comparison there is Catacombs for 40 DDO Points (which is a similar quest level range with 8 quests instead of 1) or Feywild for 100 DDO Points (which is a similar quest range, but will probably make full use of the 3 hours that a guest pass lasts unlike the 5-15 minutes these single quest guest passes will really need).

It does make me think I need to continue the process of determining if I like quests on Lamannia preview before I make a purchase (of which, full disclosure, I have yet to buy Myth Drannor because they just didn't feel worth it to me after doing a full run of them on Lamannia's last preview).
 

Stellsbelles

Well-known member
I understand the marketing rational to goad people into pre-purchasing and simultaneously lessen the boon of the "Choose your own 30% item discount", and I assume this is being thrust onto DDO against their will, but I find this unnecessary. The cost of 40 DDO Points for a single quest's guest pass is also an odd price point when for comparison there is Catacombs for 40 DDO Points (which is a similar quest level range with 8 quests instead of 1) or Feywild for 100 DDO Points (which is a similar quest range, but will probably make full use of the 3 hours that a guest pass lasts unlike the 5-15 minutes these single quest guest passes will really need).

It does make me think I need to continue the process of determining if I like quests on Lamannia preview before I make a purchase (of which, full disclosure, I have yet to buy Myth Drannor because they just didn't feel worth it to me after doing a full run of them on Lamannia's last preview).
This is the reasoning behind me saying its going to crash and burn, they are stuck in an old fashioned marketing strategy in a new market.. Now they are trying to catchup to current standards but cant due to how DDO is so out of wack with pricing on everything besides not having a new source of income to offset fixing old broken system.. just look at how well the new things they have released in last couple years have turned out. I have a feeling that when this all comes to bite them in the butt, maybe they will actually start listening to the people that keep the bills paid..
 

Felsyn

Pretty Normal Weird Guy
is this the plan to add more value to VIP? Instead of going towards a sane system where most content up to MD is free, we are starting to sell individual quests. I sure hoped progressive dungeons on the roadmap meant literally anything besides this.
 

Stellsbelles

Well-known member
is this the plan to add more value to VIP? Instead of going towards a sane system where most content up to MD is free, we are starting to sell individual quests. I sure hoped progressive dungeons on the roadmap meant literally anything besides this.
It seems so, but to just say as a reminder they did state they wanted to tryout a few new ways to do this and they know it may not work.. Telero I believe was who said it....
It won't work though with the old system
 

Felsyn

Pretty Normal Weird Guy
It seems so, but to just say as a reminder they did state they wanted to tryout a few new ways to do this and they know it may not work.. Telero I believe was who said it....
It won't work though with the old system
They could just sell a coffer for each quest pack and add the quests for free to VIP. People will pick 1 or so of these quests that work for them loot wise and ditch the rest vs buying the quest pack for the 1 quest they want.

edit - I am VIP and will remain VIP so the structure does not really matter to me. My opinion of this Adventure Pack might change slightly when we see the next year of VIP rewards as well.
 
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Alternative

Sarcasm elemental
There will be several individual quests rolling out this spring, and 3 of them are paid quests for 175 DDO Points each (each dungeon is free to VIPs).

We're introducing a new Store item called an "Adventure Pass". It works just like an Adventure Pack, adding access to the quests for your account, the only difference being that you're able to add the access ahead of when the quests release (slight discount over getting them one at a time, the Adventure Pass price is in line with a typical Adventure Pack).

If the price is in line with other adventure packs, whats the point of this? Or maybe I don't understand due to obfuscatory wording.
 

Elfishski

Well-known member
There will be several individual quests rolling out this spring, and 3 of them are paid quests for 175 DDO Points each (each dungeon is free to VIPs).

We're introducing a new Store item called an "Adventure Pass". It works just like an Adventure Pack, adding access to the quests for your account, the only difference being that you're able to add the access ahead of when the quests release (slight discount over getting them one at a time, the Adventure Pass price is in line with a typical Adventure Pack).

Here are the prices for the paid quests that will be coming out this spring:

"Sleeping with the Fishes" - 175 DDO Points (Guest Pass 40) (free for VIPs)
"Covered Culvert" - 175 DDO Points (Guest Pass 40) (free for VIPs)
"Toil and Trouble" - 175 DDO Points (Guest Pass 40) (free for VIPs)

"Tavern Tales" Adventure Pass - 475 DDO Points (Guest Pass 100) (also free for VIPs by virtue of them having access to the three individual quests by default)

We hit an issue with the Questgiver on Lamannia today, so we're going ahead and adding the two individual quests to the Store, but we're also going to go ahead and add the Adventure Pass to the Store today rather than during next week's preview (when we expect to preview Sleeping with the Fishes next, along with a separate new free dungeon).

Extremely confusing. This is introducing a new friction point for people to give up on trying to figure out what they have to buy and whether they're being fleeced to do so. No benefit to the player or to the financial sustainability of the game that I (or anyone else by the looks of comments) can see. There are bound to be a lot more support tickets as a result of the overlap and player confusion.

If selling an adventure pack of cohesive quests: sell as an adventure pack and it's okay if some are released "not later than XX date" for presale of adventure pack. If they're just individual quests just sell them individually. Keep it as simple as possible.
 

Taleisin

Well-known member
Before I purchase ANY further content from the game I want to know if said content is using the "rare loot" mechanic. I do NOT want to spend points on something that is only going to aggravate me.
Chasing unicorns in quests is bumming me out. Make the rare items BTCoE maybe so they are tradable. Could help build the in-game economy as well.
 

Putti

Well-known member
I'm not really bothered by the whole "pre-order" quests thing and it's nice to have the option to buy quests individually, but I agree that naming this a different thing is just confusing. It took me a bit to even figure out what the difference was. I don't see why it can't continue being named Adventure Pack. I guess there's some legal reason why pre-orders need to clearly defined.

Personally, knowing that the full pack is less expensive than the individual pieces means I will never consider buying the individual pieces. That's how my frugal mind works anyway.

It's also a great way to manipulate the customer into thinking they're getting a bargain by buying them as a pack while the pack is most likely the standard with the individual ones having a jacked up price.
 
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Eoin-1

Mage Hand: Eye Poke
Well, on the brighterish side, at least Dinosaur Crisis is free.

Stepping out into the Xendrik jungle proper, the roar of dinosaurs projects from every direction. The swarm is nearby!
>> Xen'drik
With the larger dinosaurs defeated, a more humanoid roar than you'd expect for a dinosaur echos through the clearing.
>> echoes (I suppose you could consider echos valid)
After the Ettin's dual gasps of shock as it is defeated, the jungle remains quited for the fist time since your arrival. Speak with the scout Regina and report your success.
>> quieted first
Regina thanks you for your service to Stormreach and offers your reward. The Ettin and his dinosaur swarm will cause no more havok.
Regina thanks you for your service to Stormreach and offers your reward. The Ettin's dinosaurs warm will cause no more havok.
>> havoc
Good job defeating the swarm and it's master!
>> its
Swarming Polecanthus[mn]
>> Polacanthus
 

Celestrata Bloodsong

Alignment: Probable Evil
Heya everyone! I've been keeping an eye on what everyone's been writing here and sitting with it. I wanted to hear everyone's honest reactions before diving too deeply into the intent behind the "Pass" idea, and I feel like there's a pretty solid consensus at this point. Also, just to say it out loud, the Pass here is one of my ideas and I'm still actively working with it. This feedback is actually super important.

So let me start by confirming something another person said in the thread: "Tolero said it's okay if this doesn't work." That's very true and by-design. If this pass idea really doesn't fly after it's tried, that's okay and it's not something that has to come back. Adventure Packs aren't going anywhere.

That said, Leo actually found my original intent, almost word-for-word when I put the idea together.
I do like the idea of quests coming out one at a time over a longer span of time; it's like week-to-week TV instead of a whole season being dropped at once; the former allows people to enjoy the individual pieces, talk to each other about them, and build up excitement for the next piece, rather than binging them all at once and being done.
Seasons of television was the inspiration for the Pass. To be able to tell a story over a longer period of time and potentially have things happen in-between is the deeper, further future intent here. What you're seeing here in Tavern Tales is a small-scale step towards that much larger, much more complex idea. This is simply an introduction to see if this concept can fit and be fun, or if it's an idea that doesn't fit here.

It's not being done for pricing reasons or to make things more complicated. We have a great content team that comes up with some amazing ideas, and I'd love to be able to give them more options to work with when it comes to their art. Equally, I'd want y'all to be able to see and experience new things in DDO in addition to the stuff that's already enjoyed.

When it comes to price, the separated prices are in the normal range for a quest pack of this size and type of content. I picked the target price for the group of them first, then split that price across the quests. The grouping of them together is discounted based on those separated prices, so it is a true discount.

And finally, the name. "Adventure Pass" is a name that we went with but it's not a name we're all excited about. The main reason it's called "Pass" and not "Pack" is to make sure folks understand that this is content that comes out over time. Was worried that if it was called a "Pack" that people would expect to get access to all the quests immediately.

The "Pass" moniker is to distinguish it from "Pack." But if it's feeling cumbersome and confusing, then it's running counter to the goal here. The goal is to make sure it's clear to folks picking this group of quests up that they will come out over time and not be all available at once. Could use another type of indicator here, or could make sure the store copy makes it very clear how the purchase works.

And thank you to everyone who's given feedback so far - this is all very helpful and good to hear, and I appreciate y'alls time in writing it.
 

Dunspartacus

Well-known member
Heya everyone! I've been keeping an eye on what everyone's been writing here and sitting with it. I wanted to hear everyone's honest reactions before diving too deeply into the intent behind the "Pass" idea, and I feel like there's a pretty solid consensus at this point. Also, just to say it out loud, the Pass here is one of my ideas and I'm still actively working with it. This feedback is actually super important.

So let me start by confirming something another person said in the thread: "Tolero said it's okay if this doesn't work." That's very true and by-design. If this pass idea really doesn't fly after it's tried, that's okay and it's not something that has to come back. Adventure Packs aren't going anywhere.

That said, Leo actually found my original intent, almost word-for-word when I put the idea together.

Seasons of television was the inspiration for the Pass. To be able to tell a story over a longer period of time and potentially have things happen in-between is the deeper, further future intent here. What you're seeing here in Tavern Tales is a small-scale step towards that much larger, much more complex idea. This is simply an introduction to see if this concept can fit and be fun, or if it's an idea that doesn't fit here.

It's not being done for pricing reasons or to make things more complicated. We have a great content team that comes up with some amazing ideas, and I'd love to be able to give them more options to work with when it comes to their art. Equally, I'd want y'all to be able to see and experience new things in DDO in addition to the stuff that's already enjoyed.

When it comes to price, the separated prices are in the normal range for a quest pack of this size and type of content. I picked the target price for the group of them first, then split that price across the quests. The grouping of them together is discounted based on those separated prices, so it is a true discount.

And finally, the name. "Adventure Pass" is a name that we went with but it's not a name we're all excited about. The main reason it's called "Pass" and not "Pack" is to make sure folks understand that this is content that comes out over time. Was worried that if it was called a "Pack" that people would expect to get access to all the quests immediately.

The "Pass" moniker is to distinguish it from "Pack." But if it's feeling cumbersome and confusing, then it's running counter to the goal here. The goal is to make sure it's clear to folks picking this group of quests up that they will come out over time and not be all available at once. Could use another type of indicator here, or could make sure the store copy makes it very clear how the purchase works.

And thank you to everyone who's given feedback so far - this is all very helpful and good to hear, and I appreciate y'alls time in writing it.
Let me first say how refreshing it is to get a response from the dev behind the idea, it means a lot in terms of helping to understand it.

Thank you for explaining it, I think I understand a little better about what you were going for, and I get where your coming from on the expectations of having something immediately when a pack is purchased. That said I'm still kind of on the hill of this will add unnecessary confusion unless it's given a good explanation in game, as not everyone reads the forums/main site/twitter/ect.
 

Epicsoul

Lava Divers Assistant to the Regional Manager
Let me first say how refreshing it is to get a response from the dev behind the idea, it means a lot in terms of helping to understand it.
Ain't it great? +1 to Celestrata. I'm all for trying new ways to bring content to the players, and communicating intent is helpful.

Welcome to the forums. Bring your rubber boots.
 
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