Lamannia Preview - Adventure Pass

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erethizon1

Well-known member
then, it can't work in ddo because the game lacked more features for too long. ddo was developed as a single-player game with multiplayer options. it is not a mmo. turbine was totally oblivious to the potential an officially-branded dnd game had. it has zero features, there is no world\landscape, no housing, no this and not that, there is literally nothing except instanced questing. guilds were created with a group of 6 in mind, how insane was that. it totally lacks the concept of a wider lively world, it does not even have a general chat, and the player base grew on this model. and you have no new players because the game was never modernized nor advertised, cause the servers were never able to deal with a decent mmo population. they were at the beginning, before it became complex as it is nowdays, and before devs had to dev on a game with house-baked code with non-existent documentation.
DDO was designed to mimic a pen and paper campaign. You have a computer DM and a small group of up to 6 people playing the adventure. Whether this was a good decision or not is another matter, but it really wasn't made as a single-player game. The dungeons were way too hard to solo and we used to fill up groups before we even started the quest (as was common in older MMO's).

I personally found the instanced nature of the game to be very disappointing. There were two reason I left DDO during the beta test (I got into the second wave of alpha testing for the game). I found spell point instead of spell slots to ruin the one feature that made D&D unique. And I strongly disliked instanced content. Stormreach felt like a prison you couldn't leave. You could walk into rooms (dungeons) but never leave the prison.

So while it neither felt like D&D nor an MMO to me, it did serve its purpose of being a pen and paper campaign game where a small group of adventurers go on an adventure together. The change in the industry to allow people to solo (something people almost never did in MMO's back when the game was made) resulted in DDO eventually making soloing possible so now it does feel a bit more like a single-player game with multiplayer options (as you put it).
 

Frieling Slyhand

Well-known member
It sounds like loot tables haven’t changed? If I understand correctly, garbage weapons still drop on same loot roll as useful gear and there are still rares for basic loot. If I understand correctly, then I won’t be buying. This will be a hard no going forward. It is an insult to player base after all the feedback we provided with MD to continue this.
 
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Bricks

Halfling Backstab
This only works if the quests are very very good and quite long, and the loot is good/unique...

It doesn't work if the quests are run down a blank hall to mob pack, kill mobs, pick up crest open door X3 it's not going to make you want the next quest much.

Also the loot has to be actually good, not like the loot from this pack.

For instance take Gianthold main quests and raid.

Week One - Madstone Crater
Week Two - Prison of the Planes
Week Three - The Crucible
Week Four - Gianthold Tor
Week Five - Reavers Fate

If the quests are long and engaging like the quests above then it could work as something that happens as a special event once a year or something
 

erethizon1

Well-known member
This only works if the quests are very very good and quite long, and the loot is good/unique...

It doesn't work if the quests are run down a blank hall to mob pack, kill mobs, pick up crest open door X3 it's not going to make you want the next quest much.

Also the loot has to be actually good, not like the loot from this pack.

For instance take Gianthold main quests and raid.

Week One - Madstone Crater
Week Two - Prison of the Planes
Week Three - The Crucible
Week Four - Gianthold Tor
Week Five - Reavers Fate

If the quests are long and engaging like the quests above then it could work as something that happens as a special event once a year or something
Long and engaging means it needs multiplied named loot chests, perhaps with different loot in each chest to make it easier to find what you want in a particular chest, or else loot farming will be more horrific than ever, especially with rare loot.
 
Ah, a lot of thoughts here. Let me try to take this piece by piece, while also offering some additional background here that may help clarify my intents.

One of the personal development philosophies I've held to over the years is a sentence: "Play with an open hand." I've long believed that great development is always a collaboration and the best way to collaborate is to be open about what's going on and why. That way everyone is making decisions based on the same information, rather than making decisions based on guesswork or personal backgrounds.

It's also helpful for anyone who wants to get into development themselves, because I know a lot of us always want to make games in addition to play them. That's especially true here, as I'm sure many of us do tabletop roleplaying. That means there's Game Masters in these parts. Game Masters sometimes have to make design decisions for their own groups and campaigns. Talking about development helps everyone understand it better, because otherwise it's a black box back here.

With that in mind, I should explain my role on the team: It's Product Management. That's a fancy way of saying that yes, I am the store lady. Pricing, sales, and marketing are within my role's area of responsibility, sure, but my role does not end there. I'm not just "the store lady."

My role also spills over into "the experience of using & playing the product that's being made." It's also my responsibility to help the team format how you experience the whole game from top to bottom. To understand that, I spend a lot of time analyzing the psychology of play at large as well as reviewing the play data from both LOTRO and DDO. I did three main things in college: learned how to be a psychological researcher, made alternate reality games for fun on the internet, and played a lot of MMOs. Only one of them was the reason I was in college in the first place, lol.

But, I made alternate reality games because they folded together my three core passions as an artist: roleplaying & acting, illusion design, and mass shared storytelling. I don't think a lot of people always realize that the design of stage illusions actually has a lot of cross-over with game development. Both are practices of creating experiences for others to immerse themselves in and both sometimes rely on the same core tools to achieve that goal.

I'm also not the only magician to express that sentiment or have that interest. I've briefly crossed paths before with another illusion designer who's work I respect - Curtis Hickman. He also likes games for some weird reason. Couldn't have the foggiest idea why. <she says loudly while waiting for someone to recognize Curtis's last name and go "Wait a minute...">

But that's how my background informs my approach to my job. I don't always come at things because of business reasons, or marketing reasons, or even genre reasons; I sometimes come at them from the direction of experience design.

So why pick TV as an inspiration?

I think that may be where some of us are looking in different directions. I hear all of you on TV being a dumb idea and perhaps not the best fit for the game, but why is it dumb? Is it dumb because of the type of storytelling they do, and we don't feel as though that would fit here? Is it dumb because you'd rather play everything on your own schedule, like getting a whole season from Netflix? I know I saw that latter comparison being made a few times, and it's definitely a fair one. Convenience matters. Either way, it's important to me to know why something is dumb, which is why I'm asking.

But the reason TV was the inspiration was not for the above reasons. The reason I had my eye on was the period of storytelling. Typical, long format tabletop games meet weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly. TV shows do weekly storytelling. That's the connection: How do you keep it interesting and engaging on a recurring cadence? How should it potentially be split up? What feels both fair and fun? Can quests/dungeons even do that in DDO? I'm actually bringing it back to how the MMO can best represent the tabletop experience while still taking advantages of abilities we have in our medium.

So, sorry to throw any water on dreams of Guest GMs Chandler & Joey. This isn't about the hype of prestige television or something like that, it's well more boring but still important questions to ask from time to time.

What about the prices? Are they going up?

The other part of this is seeing if this feels better for people to buy into, because it's lower price point and it breaks up the cost of the adventure pack. The individual prices of each quest are the cost of the pack divided up. If you buy the "bundle" of them up front, then there's a 10% discount, so the "pack version" is a lower price while the individual quests are at the normal pack price.

Separating the dungeons also means separating the guest passes, so each of these quests can also operate on a guest pass that just goes into one, but there is also a guest pass for the full pack, like normal. And, of course, VIPs still get access to these quests as they normally do, there's no change there.

So what about the name?

We discussed the feedback from this thread this week and we're landing on a new name: Quest Bundle. We don't want to cause confusion with Adventure Packs, but we also don't want this to be understood as a "connected series of quests." The overall theme of the Tavern Tales Quest Bundle is that they are separate one-off stories that could be told in a tavern.

We're also going to be making it very clear in the description of the bundle that each of these quests can be purchased separately and purchasing the bundle is pre-purchasing access. When all of the quests are out, the pre-order text will go away and the group will be called a "Quest Bundle." At that point, it will function exactly as an adventure pack, except it has the 10% discount for buying the bundle together.

But what about THE LOOT?

Sadly I'm store lady and not loot lady. The loot rates are outside of my sphere of work so I can't provide answers there. The best I can say is that each of the dungeons is designed to stand alone, so each does have separate loot. I did see that question got asked, so I wanted to at least answer that.

Will the store filter out the quests? How will the store display them?

Yeah, the store will be set to filter offers based on what you own, so if you buy the Quest Bundle then the individual purchases will be filtered out. You can always bring them back by using the filter toggle in the upper-right hand of the store.

To also keep things tidy, the quests will be available in a separate category, together. That way when you look at the category, you see all of the options along with a quick explanation of how it works. They will also share search tags, so searching for the wider pack will also return the individual quests in search results, and vice-versa. We want to set it up so the filters don't keep things too separate, but there will be at least one area where this will happen: the quest pack page. As the quests are at different levels, yeah, they will be split up there.
 

Christhemiss

Maker of Builds
Ah, a lot of thoughts here. Let me try to take this piece by piece, while also offering some additional background here that may help clarify my intents.

One of the personal development philosophies I've held to over the years is a sentence: "Play with an open hand." I've long believed that great development is always a collaboration and the best way to collaborate is to be open about what's going on and why. That way everyone is making decisions based on the same information, rather than making decisions based on guesswork or personal backgrounds.

It's also helpful for anyone who wants to get into development themselves, because I know a lot of us always want to make games in addition to play them. That's especially true here, as I'm sure many of us do tabletop roleplaying. That means there's Game Masters in these parts. Game Masters sometimes have to make design decisions for their own groups and campaigns. Talking about development helps everyone understand it better, because otherwise it's a black box back here.

With that in mind, I should explain my role on the team: It's Product Management. That's a fancy way of saying that yes, I am the store lady. Pricing, sales, and marketing are within my role's area of responsibility, sure, but my role does not end there. I'm not just "the store lady."

My role also spills over into "the experience of using & playing the product that's being made." It's also my responsibility to help the team format how you experience the whole game from top to bottom. To understand that, I spend a lot of time analyzing the psychology of play at large as well as reviewing the play data from both LOTRO and DDO. I did three main things in college: learned how to be a psychological researcher, made alternate reality games for fun on the internet, and played a lot of MMOs. Only one of them was the reason I was in college in the first place, lol.

But, I made alternate reality games because they folded together my three core passions as an artist: roleplaying & acting, illusion design, and mass shared storytelling. I don't think a lot of people always realize that the design of stage illusions actually has a lot of cross-over with game development. Both are practices of creating experiences for others to immerse themselves in and both sometimes rely on the same core tools to achieve that goal.

I'm also not the only magician to express that sentiment or have that interest. I've briefly crossed paths before with another illusion designer who's work I respect - Curtis Hickman. He also likes games for some weird reason. Couldn't have the foggiest idea why. <she says loudly while waiting for someone to recognize Curtis's last name and go "Wait a minute...">

But that's how my background informs my approach to my job. I don't always come at things because of business reasons, or marketing reasons, or even genre reasons; I sometimes come at them from the direction of experience design.

So why pick TV as an inspiration?

I think that may be where some of us are looking in different directions. I hear all of you on TV being a dumb idea and perhaps not the best fit for the game, but why is it dumb? Is it dumb because of the type of storytelling they do, and we don't feel as though that would fit here? Is it dumb because you'd rather play everything on your own schedule, like getting a whole season from Netflix? I know I saw that latter comparison being made a few times, and it's definitely a fair one. Convenience matters. Either way, it's important to me to know why something is dumb, which is why I'm asking.

But the reason TV was the inspiration was not for the above reasons. The reason I had my eye on was the period of storytelling. Typical, long format tabletop games meet weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly. TV shows do weekly storytelling. That's the connection: How do you keep it interesting and engaging on a recurring cadence? How should it potentially be split up? What feels both fair and fun? Can quests/dungeons even do that in DDO? I'm actually bringing it back to how the MMO can best represent the tabletop experience while still taking advantages of abilities we have in our medium.

So, sorry to throw any water on dreams of Guest GMs Chandler & Joey. This isn't about the hype of prestige television or something like that, it's well more boring but still important questions to ask from time to time.

What about the prices? Are they going up?

The other part of this is seeing if this feels better for people to buy into, because it's lower price point and it breaks up the cost of the adventure pack. The individual prices of each quest are the cost of the pack divided up. If you buy the "bundle" of them up front, then there's a 10% discount, so the "pack version" is a lower price while the individual quests are at the normal pack price.

Separating the dungeons also means separating the guest passes, so each of these quests can also operate on a guest pass that just goes into one, but there is also a guest pass for the full pack, like normal. And, of course, VIPs still get access to these quests as they normally do, there's no change there.

So what about the name?

We discussed the feedback from this thread this week and we're landing on a new name: Quest Bundle. We don't want to cause confusion with Adventure Packs, but we also don't want this to be understood as a "connected series of quests." The overall theme of the Tavern Tales Quest Bundle is that they are separate one-off stories that could be told in a tavern.

We're also going to be making it very clear in the description of the bundle that each of these quests can be purchased separately and purchasing the bundle is pre-purchasing access. When all of the quests are out, the pre-order text will go away and the group will be called a "Quest Bundle." At that point, it will function exactly as an adventure pack, except it has the 10% discount for buying the bundle together.

But what about THE LOOT?

Sadly I'm store lady and not loot lady. The loot rates are outside of my sphere of work so I can't provide answers there. The best I can say is that each of the dungeons is designed to stand alone, so each does have separate loot. I did see that question got asked, so I wanted to at least answer that.

Will the store filter out the quests? How will the store display them?

Yeah, the store will be set to filter offers based on what you own, so if you buy the Quest Bundle then the individual purchases will be filtered out. You can always bring them back by using the filter toggle in the upper-right hand of the store.

To also keep things tidy, the quests will be available in a separate category, together. That way when you look at the category, you see all of the options along with a quick explanation of how it works. They will also share search tags, so searching for the wider pack will also return the individual quests in search results, and vice-versa. We want to set it up so the filters don't keep things too separate, but there will be at least one area where this will happen: the quest pack page. As the quests are at different levels, yeah, they will be split up there.
care to explain whats up with the DDO store sales this year being 15-20% instead of usual 25-30%? do you do the coupons and if so, how do you decide on the coupons?
 

Phaedra

Well-known member
Yeah, the store will be set to filter offers based on what you own, so if you buy the Quest Bundle then the individual purchases will be filtered out. You can always bring them back by using the filter toggle in the upper-right hand of the store.
You are aware that the "filter applicable items" toggle does not, and to my knowledge has never worked for items that a character doesn't specifically own? Like characters who have a +8 supreme tome or Greater tome of Learning applied still see all lesser tomes. This is why "will the quests appear in the store if we buy the pack?" Is a question.
 

ACJ97F

Well-known member
So why pick TV as an inspiration?
If these come out staggered like the above mentioned series, there's zero chance of getting that. Not going to start paying for something
in the hopes it will maintain any quality. SSG has no bridges left, you filled the little wiggle-room you had with bug folders, poor changes,
and bloat the likes of which a dead whale has yet to achieve.

The period of storytelling? Here?? SSG goes in more directions than trailers in a tornado, and doen't fix stuff we already paid for. If a DM
was that unorganized in PnP we'd withhold his pizza, and bring Nerf Claymores to the table.
 
care to explain whats up with the DDO store sales this year being 15-20% instead of usual 25-30%? do you do the coupons and if so, how do you decide on the coupons?
This is a bit separate from the theme of the thread, but yeah, you ask the right thing to the right person. The weekly sales range isn't just 25-30%, it's technically 10-30%. When I came back into the role last year, I inherited the prior documentation, and this is what was set up. As we had so many powerful sales for the holiday, when we came back from the year I dropped it back down to the bottom of the range as a contrast.

That said, the feedback that 10-20% sucks also got passed my way a few weeks ago by Cordovan, who sent y'alls posts over. That did two things: One, I adjusted the schedule I set up to angle back away from such a low percentage, especially when reviewing the sales discount history prior to me. Two, we started talking about potential ideas for refreshing the weekly sales to try some new things.

This week's sale is 20%, and that's the low end for a while. As to refreshing the sales, that's gonna take a bit longer, I have a bunch of stuff on my schedule to visit.
You are aware that the "filter applicable items" toggle does not, and to my knowledge has never worked for items that a character doesn't specifically own? Like characters who have a +8 supreme tome or Greater tome of Learning applied still see all lesser tomes. This is why "will the quests appear in the store if we buy the pack?" Is a question.
Nay, I did not realize it has that exact behavior with account level items. That throws a small wrench in, for sure. The purchase filtering, however, definitely does work and will be on, so if there's an issue there please let me know.

For the switch, I have an outstanding pile of tickets for the team that engineers the store (it's not the DDO team, the store is a separate group), so I'll add that to the list to see if there's something we can address about it.
The period of storytelling? Here?? SSG goes in more directions than trailers in a tornado, and doen't fix stuff we already paid for. If a DM
was that unorganized in PnP we'd withhold his pizza, and bring Nerf Claymores to the table.
...but... I already bring a claymore... do we not all bring claymores?
 

Christhemiss

Maker of Builds
This is a bit separate from the theme of the thread, but yeah, you ask the right thing to the right person. The weekly sales range isn't just 25-30%, it's technically 10-30%. When I came back into the role last year, I inherited the prior documentation, and this is what was set up. As we had so many powerful sales for the holiday, when we came back from the year I dropped it back down to the bottom of the range as a contrast.

That said, the feedback that 10-20% sucks also got passed my way a few weeks ago by Cordovan, who sent y'alls posts over. That did two things: One, I adjusted the schedule I set up to angle back away from such a low percentage, especially when reviewing the sales discount history prior to me. Two, we started talking about potential ideas for refreshing the weekly sales to try some new things.

This week's sale is 20%, and that's the low end for a while. As to refreshing the sales, that's gonna take a bit longer, I have a bunch of stuff on my schedule to visit.
this makes a lot of sense and thank you for listening to feedback! this is exactly what i was hoping for! 😍
 

FaceDancer

Olde Wurm
But that's how my background informs my approach to my job. I don't always come at things because of business reasons, or marketing reasons, or even genre reasons; I sometimes come at them from the direction of experience design.

Will the store filter out the quests? How will the store display them?
"Please Stop Her From Talking About Horror Literature If You Value Your Time Lady." I hope your sig influences story-time in DDO! 😈

Quest Bundle is clean and concise. (y)

You are the lady of the store! I think I tormented Cordovan for a spell (he's pretty good @ ignoring me), but augments were supposed to go on sale and never did. Is this you?
Link to sale that never happened (well the augment part at least): https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/sales-february-27th-march-6th.17219/


Help me Obi-Celestrata Bloodsong! You're my only hope (aka can we have this sooner than later since it never happened?!?)

Do you have any pull with cleaning up the store? There seems to be a lot of dead wood in there. :confused:

Thanks for talking with us! 🥰
 

cdbd3rd

Well-known member
This is a bit separate from the theme of the thread, but yeah, you ask the right thing to the right person. The weekly sales range isn't just 25-30%, it's technically 10-30%. When I came back into the role last year, I inherited the prior documentation, and this is what was set up. As we had so many powerful sales for the holiday, when we came back from the year I dropped it back down to the bottom of the range as a contrast.

That said, the feedback that 10-20% sucks also got passed my way a few weeks ago by Cordovan, who sent y'alls posts over. That did two things: One, I adjusted the schedule I set up to angle back away from such a low percentage, especially when reviewing the sales discount history prior to me. Two, we started talking about potential ideas for refreshing the weekly sales to try some new things.

This week's sale is 20%, and that's the low end for a while. As to refreshing the sales, that's gonna take a bit longer, I have a bunch of stuff on my schedule to visit.

A few words that say "That's my gig and I've heard you" goes a crazy long ways towards building good will with folks.

I'd like to pose that 20% be forever the low end of that range because anything less is absolutely not really considered a 'sale'. (Some include 20% in that descriptor, but giving a little to get a little.)

[edit: forgot this was an off-thread-topic comment. ]
 
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Kritikal

......
Ah, a lot of thoughts here. Let me try to take this piece by piece, while also offering some additional background here that may help clarify my intents.

One of the personal development philosophies I've held to over the years is a sentence: "Play with an open hand." I've long believed that great development is always a collaboration and the best way to collaborate is to be open about what's going on and why. That way everyone is making decisions based on the same information, rather than making decisions based on guesswork or personal backgrounds.

It's also helpful for anyone who wants to get into development themselves, because I know a lot of us always want to make games in addition to play them. That's especially true here, as I'm sure many of us do tabletop roleplaying. That means there's Game Masters in these parts. Game Masters sometimes have to make design decisions for their own groups and campaigns. Talking about development helps everyone understand it better, because otherwise it's a black box back here.

With that in mind, I should explain my role on the team: It's Product Management. That's a fancy way of saying that yes, I am the store lady. Pricing, sales, and marketing are within my role's area of responsibility, sure, but my role does not end there. I'm not just "the store lady."

My role also spills over into "the experience of using & playing the product that's being made." It's also my responsibility to help the team format how you experience the whole game from top to bottom. To understand that, I spend a lot of time analyzing the psychology of play at large as well as reviewing the play data from both LOTRO and DDO. I did three main things in college: learned how to be a psychological researcher, made alternate reality games for fun on the internet, and played a lot of MMOs. Only one of them was the reason I was in college in the first place, lol.

But, I made alternate reality games because they folded together my three core passions as an artist: roleplaying & acting, illusion design, and mass shared storytelling. I don't think a lot of people always realize that the design of stage illusions actually has a lot of cross-over with game development. Both are practices of creating experiences for others to immerse themselves in and both sometimes rely on the same core tools to achieve that goal.

I'm also not the only magician to express that sentiment or have that interest. I've briefly crossed paths before with another illusion designer who's work I respect - Curtis Hickman. He also likes games for some weird reason. Couldn't have the foggiest idea why. <she says loudly while waiting for someone to recognize Curtis's last name and go "Wait a minute...">

But that's how my background informs my approach to my job. I don't always come at things because of business reasons, or marketing reasons, or even genre reasons; I sometimes come at them from the direction of experience design.

So why pick TV as an inspiration?

I think that may be where some of us are looking in different directions. I hear all of you on TV being a dumb idea and perhaps not the best fit for the game, but why is it dumb? Is it dumb because of the type of storytelling they do, and we don't feel as though that would fit here? Is it dumb because you'd rather play everything on your own schedule, like getting a whole season from Netflix? I know I saw that latter comparison being made a few times, and it's definitely a fair one. Convenience matters. Either way, it's important to me to know why something is dumb, which is why I'm asking.

But the reason TV was the inspiration was not for the above reasons. The reason I had my eye on was the period of storytelling. Typical, long format tabletop games meet weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly. TV shows do weekly storytelling. That's the connection: How do you keep it interesting and engaging on a recurring cadence? How should it potentially be split up? What feels both fair and fun? Can quests/dungeons even do that in DDO? I'm actually bringing it back to how the MMO can best represent the tabletop experience while still taking advantages of abilities we have in our medium.

So, sorry to throw any water on dreams of Guest GMs Chandler & Joey. This isn't about the hype of prestige television or something like that, it's well more boring but still important questions to ask from time to time.

What about the prices? Are they going up?

The other part of this is seeing if this feels better for people to buy into, because it's lower price point and it breaks up the cost of the adventure pack. The individual prices of each quest are the cost of the pack divided up. If you buy the "bundle" of them up front, then there's a 10% discount, so the "pack version" is a lower price while the individual quests are at the normal pack price.

Separating the dungeons also means separating the guest passes, so each of these quests can also operate on a guest pass that just goes into one, but there is also a guest pass for the full pack, like normal. And, of course, VIPs still get access to these quests as they normally do, there's no change there.

So what about the name?

We discussed the feedback from this thread this week and we're landing on a new name: Quest Bundle. We don't want to cause confusion with Adventure Packs, but we also don't want this to be understood as a "connected series of quests." The overall theme of the Tavern Tales Quest Bundle is that they are separate one-off stories that could be told in a tavern.

We're also going to be making it very clear in the description of the bundle that each of these quests can be purchased separately and purchasing the bundle is pre-purchasing access. When all of the quests are out, the pre-order text will go away and the group will be called a "Quest Bundle." At that point, it will function exactly as an adventure pack, except it has the 10% discount for buying the bundle together.

But what about THE LOOT?

Sadly I'm store lady and not loot lady. The loot rates are outside of my sphere of work so I can't provide answers there. The best I can say is that each of the dungeons is designed to stand alone, so each does have separate loot. I did see that question got asked, so I wanted to at least answer that.

Will the store filter out the quests? How will the store display them?

Yeah, the store will be set to filter offers based on what you own, so if you buy the Quest Bundle then the individual purchases will be filtered out. You can always bring them back by using the filter toggle in the upper-right hand of the store.

To also keep things tidy, the quests will be available in a separate category, together. That way when you look at the category, you see all of the options along with a quick explanation of how it works. They will also share search tags, so searching for the wider pack will also return the individual quests in search results, and vice-versa. We want to set it up so the filters don't keep things too separate, but there will be at least one area where this will happen: the quest pack page. As the quests are at different levels, yeah, they will be split up there.
Very nice edict. Thank you.

Here's an answer the question why it is "dumb."

Contrary to the zergers, min-maxers, etc. there are people out there that play your game for the role-play and story aspect, even while they are reincarnating. Using your own TV analogy, if you release a quest one week, it will get played when it comes out. Then, following your "episodic" quest timeline, that character has to wait for the next quest/episode to continue (however long that may be). The end result is the character gets parked (game not being played). Consequently, if you release the pack in one bundle, all quests in that story get completed (at the players convenience), then they'll continue to the next storyline (once again, at the players convenience). Hence, progression continues, i.e. game gets played.
 

LeoLionxxx

Lion of Orien
My role also spills over into "the experience of using & playing the product that's being made." It's also my responsibility to help the team format how you experience the whole game from top to bottom. To understand that, I spend a lot of time analyzing the psychology of play at large as well as reviewing the play data from both LOTRO and DDO. I did three main things in college: learned how to be a psychological researcher, made alternate reality games for fun on the internet, and played a lot of MMOs. Only one of them was the reason I was in college in the first place, lol.
Some good insight! I love this open-communication approach!

"Quest Bundle" is a good clear name - distinct from "Adventure Pack" since the quests aren't connected.
The other part of this is seeing if this feels better for people to buy into, because it's lower price point and it breaks up the cost of the adventure pack. The individual prices of each quest are the cost of the pack divided up. If you buy the "bundle" of them up front, then there's a 10% discount, so the "pack version" is a lower price while the individual quests are at the normal pack price.

The part I'm disliking is that since the Bundle is cheaper, my brain looks at the individuals and says "buying them individually is more expensive". I like freedom of choice, but as someone who's careful about how they spend their resources, it doesn't feel like I have a choice in whether I buy the individual quests, or the bundle - if I buy them individually, I'm wasting money/DDO Points.

If I was in a situation where I had very few DDO points and was earning them slowly, the lower price point of the individual packs would not permit my brain to buy the individuals because I know that unless I buy the FULL version I'm wasting resources.

That's why I'm resistant to this new pricing structure. If the bundle was the exact same price as the sum of the quests, then I'd know I have total freedom to either put my trust up-front in SSG that they'll deliver content I like, or buy the quests one-by-one as they come out.

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Additional feedback for the Shop Lady:

1) I'd love to be able to buy more Regularly Priced Shared Bank Space! The bank space in the coffers feels prohibitively expensive to me.

2) I've love for there to be upgrade paths for the Patron coffers. I bought the Middle Mechanichalized Coffer on sale, but now I can't buy the Large one without feeling like I'm wasting points!
 

ACJ97F

Well-known member
...but... I already bring a claymore... do we not all bring claymores?
Yes, but we don't buy them from SSG anymore, since U37 ammo had a tendency to still not work 8+ years after paying for it. We play
MMOs to get a break from RL and relax... now we're mowing the lawn and painting things just to get a break from SSG.

Oh, and Monks greater hand is still broken after their"class update" and multiple patches, as if those guys haven't suffered enough. 🙄
 
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erethizon1

Well-known member
A few words that say "That's my gig and I've heard you" goes a crazy long ways towards building good will with folks.

I'd like to pose that 20% be forever the low end of that range because anything less is absolutely not really considered a 'sale'. (Some include 20% in that descriptor, but giving a little to get a little.)

[edit: forgot this was an off-thread-topic comment. ]
I'd add, 20% is not a real sale either. If you go into a tangible store and find something "on sale" for 20% off, you don't even consider it. My record for the worst sale ever was jars of baby food that were 1.5 cents off (3 cent discount when buying 2 jars). Clearly someone thought just having a sale tag would increase sales and the customers would all be morons incapable of math.

A sale needs to be enough of a discount to feel like a deal. 15 years ago there was one item that was 75% off and one item that was 50% off each week. That really should return. At the very least, 35% off should be the default rate. If you are worried about losing too much money because some items are useable in infinite quantity (like potions and cakes) then fine, keep those at 20%. But for items that can only be purchased once, have bigger sales.

As a person that owns every race, class, archetype, iconic, and tome in the game (and all the content except the latest two releases with rare loot which I am boycotting) I can tell you, we need bigger sales for these items so that more people can have them. And these bigger sales need to come more than once or twice a year so that we don't go 6 months without any reason to even open the store panel because nothing is ever on a real sale. We are currently in the dry period where I go months without using the store because of the lack of sales. If we didn't have the current problem with Chaosmancer that caused the recent bundle to be released I would have gone many, many months without buying anything.
 
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erethizon1

Well-known member
Some good insight! I love this open-communication approach!

"Quest Bundle" is a good clear name - distinct from "Adventure Pack" since the quests aren't connected.


The part I'm disliking is that since the Bundle is cheaper, my brain looks at the individuals and says "buying them individually is more expensive". I like freedom of choice, but as someone who's careful about how they spend their resources, it doesn't feel like I have a choice in whether I buy the individual quests, or the bundle - if I buy them individually, I'm wasting money/DDO Points.

If I was in a situation where I had very few DDO points and was earning them slowly, the lower price point of the individual packs would not permit my brain to buy the individuals because I know that unless I buy the FULL version I'm wasting resources.

That's why I'm resistant to this new pricing structure. If the bundle was the exact same price as the sum of the quests, then I'd know I have total freedom to either put my trust up-front in SSG that they'll deliver content I like, or buy the quests one-by-one as they come out.

----
Additional feedback for the Shop Lady:

1) I'd love to be able to buy more Regularly Priced Shared Bank Space! The bank space in the coffers feels prohibitively expensive to me.

2) I've love for there to be upgrade paths for the Patron coffers. I bought the Middle Mechanichalized Coffer on sale, but now I can't buy the Large one without feeling like I'm wasting points!
Agreed on all points. Quest bundle is a great name for it.

When it comes to buying the quests individually, I just recognize that the opportunity to buy them one at a time is not for people like us. I think much like you do and I simply cannot wrap my head around people that impulse buy the stuff at the checkout stand. That candy costs X per pound. I can walk right over to isle 5 and buy a larger bag for 0.5X per pound. Why would anyone buy this overpriced stuff? And yet, people do. All the time. I don't. But those items just are not for me. So many people overpay for things constantly because they prefer low individual prices over larger bundles that would cost less per item.

And finally, YES! We need more Shared Bank Space! (and more regular bank space too). And those bank spaces need to be on a decent sale for once! Recently, during that special time of year when we get something at 50% and 75% off (which needs to happen more often) we finally got shared bank space for 35% off which is the cheapest it has ever been. That is pathetic. Shared bank is one of the most grossly overpriced items in the entire game. It costs 100 store point for 1 space. That is outrageous! At the very least you could put it on sale for 50% off once in a while. I have had 170 shared space for over a decade because I have been waiting for a sale that isn't a joke. Clearly I can do without as I have for a decade. So how about you finally have a sale that will part me from my money because being stingy on the sale percentage clearly isn't benefiting either of us.
 
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