Lamannia U73.4 Overview

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Torc

Systems Developer
Hello! Welcome to the Update 73.4 Lamannia, which includes some balance changes to the "ranged meta" and more. We want to use this thread to get direct feedback on these changes as you see them on Lamannia this week. Let's get into it:

Ranged Meta Balance:
  • Attack Speed Modifiers will no longer function for Inquisitive crossbow styles when No Holds Barred and Endless Fusillade are active.
    • We estimate a typical Legendary character displaying a 50% attack speed modifier in the stats+ page after this pass going from a bolt firing every 0.25 seconds to a bolt firing every 0.3 seconds, which will match how these skills operate for other crossbow styles like Repeating Crossbows. The end result is about a 20% adjustment in attack speed. Heroic characters with less attack speed modifiers will feel the impact of this change less. A fire rate of 0.3 seconds for a projectile is probably going to be a bit of a "floor" for us, since the engine starts to reach limits when attack speed gets much faster.
    • Your fire rate outside of when No Holds Barred or Endless Fusillade are active should be unaffected.
    • These changes also touch animation scripts so if you have characters of different races using this style, please do check as many as you can and let us know what you see.
  • Precise Shot now grants all bows (long and short) a 50% stat mod adjustment, much like two handed weapons.
    • Bows will hit harder per projectile and be a little like the 2 handers of the ranged meta.
    • This is a passive function and does not care what toggles you have on.
Cosmetic Feat Reorganizing and lasting through Reincarnation:
  • Cosmetic toggle feats now have their own tab in the feat panel called "Cosmetics", and you should find all of your existing cosmetic feats there now.
  • The Hardcore season cosmetic feats such as Death Follows You and Death Watches You can now be reclaimed at the vendor Mortality. If you reclaim these feats they will go from "temporary" to permanent in the user interface, and will now persist through reincarnation.
Plz try this out! We have not done the permanent claim adjustment yet to other cosmetic rewards in this build, but we will assuming no serious issues are found.

The War on pathing lock ups continue:

Various monster and henchmen AI adjustments have been made to expensive behaviors:
  • Monsters when Feared will now only go up to 15 meters away from the player, and will in general behave in a much more "panicking in place" fashion.
    • Note: If folks can think of places in content where chasing the monsters is really important, maybe double check them.
  • Monsters who would flee when perched also panic in place more instead of trying to find a location far away.
  • This fix really applies to what happens when a fear spell or character ability is used and content typically make monsters run away in dungeons with other methods which are more predictable, but ya never knows.
  • We've fixed or improved several things with the hirelings Teal, Darling, and Rana.
    • This aims to correct "expensive" behaviors during situations when they could not reach their owner.
    • This applies to situations like swimming, ledge jumping, teleporting, or hitting a bad path map. Since this fix focuses on what they are doing when they can't really move, it shouldn't change their behavior in normal game play, but give them a spin.
Known Issues and things not addressed in this patch:
  • Attack Speed Mods are not really working for Repeaters in some cases on their basic fire rate (none fuss/NHB)- We are still working on it. Repeaters are one of those heart break hills behind the curtain with a long history. It's gonna take some time.
  • Hirelings aggro'ing targets through walls: This is a separate issue from pathing and is rather a perception problem against ignoring particular kinds of game geometry. We haven't gotten there yet.

-Torc
 
Last edited:

rabidfox

The People's Champion
  • Cosmetic toggle feats now have their own tab in the feat panel called "Cosmetics", and you should find all of your existing cosmetic feats there now.
  • The Hardcore season cosmetic feats such as Death Follows You and Death Watches You can now be reclaimed at the vendor Mortality. If you reclaim these feats they will go from "temporary" to permanent in the user interface, and will now persist through reincarnation.
Oh nice.
 

Vox

Well-known member
I think you need more love on bows.

The rate of fire just makes them very unfun to level or outside of a raid group at cap.

Could you borrow some bow attacks from DOS2 or PoE2?

Edit - maybe differentiate between shotbow (fastest), longbow (faster than current), and add in greatbow for current attack speed with bigger numbers?
 

Phaaze

Well-known member
  • Precise Shot now grants all bows (long and short) a 50% stat mod adjustment, much like two handed weapons.
    • Bows will hit harder per projectile and be a little like the 2 handers of the ranged meta.
    • This is a passive function and does not care what toggles you have on.
This is really cool. Hope this brings more bow builds to the game.
 

EinarMal

Well-known member
Hello! Welcome to the Update 73.4 Lamannia, which includes some balance changes to the "ranged meta" and more. We want to use this thread to get direct feedback on these changes as you see them on Lamannia this week. Let's get into it:

Ranged Meta Balance:
  • Attack Speed Modifiers will no longer function for Inquisitive crossbow styles when No Holds Barred and Endless Fusillade are active.
    • We estimate a typical Legendary character displaying a 50% attack speed modifier in the stats+ page after this pass going from a bolt firing every 0.25 seconds to a bolt firing every 0.3 seconds, which will match how these skills operate for other crossbow styles like Repeating Crossbows. The end result is about a 20% adjustment in attack speed. Heroic characters with less attack speed modifiers will feel the impact of this change less. A fire rate of 0.3 seconds for a projectile is probably going to be a bit of a "floor" for us, since the engine starts to reach limits when attack speed gets much faster.
    • Your fire rate outside of when No Holds Barred or Endless Fusillade are active should be unaffected.
    • These changes also touch animation scripts so if you have characters of different races using this style, please do check as many as you can and let us know what you see.
  • Precise Shot now grants all bows (long and short) a 50% stat mod adjustment, much like two handed weapons.
    • Bows will hit harder per projectile and be a little like the 2 handers of the ranged meta.
    • This is a passive function and does not care what toggles you have on.
Cosmetic Feat Reorganizing and lasting through Reincarnation:
  • Cosmetic toggle feats now have their own tab in the feat panel called "Cosmetics", and you should find all of your existing cosmetic feats there now.
  • The Hardcore season cosmetic feats such as Death Follows You and Death Watches You can now be reclaimed at the vendor Mortality. If you reclaim these feats they will go from "temporary" to permanent in the user interface, and will now persist through reincarnation.
Plz try this out! We have not done the permanent claim adjustment yet to other cosmetic rewards in this build, but we will assuming no serious issues are found.

The War on pathing lock ups continue:

Various monster and henchmen AI adjustments have been made to expensive behaviors:
  • Monsters when Feared will now only go up to 15 meters away from the player, and will in general behave in a much more "panicking in place" fashion.
    • Note: If folks can think of places in content where chasing the monsters is really important, maybe double check them.
  • Monsters who would flee when perched also panic in place more instead of trying to find a location far away.
  • This fix really applies to what happens when a fear spell or character ability is used and content typically make monsters run away in dungeons with other methods which are more predictable, but ya never knows.
  • We've fixed or improved several things with the hirelings Teal, Darling, and Rana.
    • This aims to correct "expensive" behaviors during situations when they could not reach their owner.
    • This applies to situations like swimming, ledge jumping, teleporting, or hitting a bad path map. Since this fix focuses on what they are doing when they can't really move, it shouldn't change their behavior in normal game play, but give them a spin.
Known Issues and things not addressed in this patch:
  • Attack Speed Mods are not really working for Repeaters in some cases on their basic fire rate (none fuss/NHB)- We are still working on it. Repeaters are one of those heart break hills behind the curtain with a long history. It's gonna take some time.
  • Hirelings aggro'ing targets through walls: This is a separate issue from pathing and is rather a perception problem against ignoring particular kinds of game geometry. We haven't gotten there yet.

-Torc
Known Issues and things not addressed in this patch:
  • Abysmal caster DPS in R10 due to R10 penalty on spells not being reversed
 

Abramax

Emerald Archer
Precise Shot now grants all bows (long and short) a 50% stat mod adjustment, much like two handed weapons.
  • Bows will hit harder per projectile and be a little like the 2 handers of the ranged meta.
  • This is a passive function and does not care what toggles you have on.
That is a really good start and I appreciate it !
But what do we have for improved precise shot ? can we have a 50% attack speed bonus (with the 20% damage penality) to help imbue builds ?
 

FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted

If you read my posts you have already lost
That is a really good start and I appreciate it !
But what do we have for improved precise shot ? can we have a 50% attack speed bonus (with the 20% damage penality) to help imbue builds ?
precise shot is the feat, archers focus is the toggle, so I believe this means the passive feat will give the bonus and not the toggle (hopefully that is the case)
 

Frostwulf

Member
Can we finally get permanent reaper wings and eyes? You have failed horribly at making them platinum sinks... Even though Platinum is nigh on worthless, blowing a quarter of plat cap on wings for a life that might last 3 days is just... Not even remotely worth it. lol
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
That works nicely. I hope reaper wings/eyes get offered as a perma thing too.

6BDO2LO.jpeg
 

plantpower

Well-known member
  • Precise Shot now grants all bows (long and short) a 50% stat mod adjustment, much like two handed weapons.
    • Bows will hit harder per projectile and be a little like the 2 handers of the ranged meta.
    • This is a passive function and does not care what toggles you have on.
Well this is certainly nice for my arcane archer. If I may be a bit greedy, I'll ask that the Arcane Archer capstone be a multiselector for +4 dex or wis. My arcane archer has the lowest stat mod of all my builds, making it harder to get full use of this change, and my capstone boosting the wrong stat is definitely one of the reasons why. It's clear that when the AA capstone was designed, wis to hit/damage didn't exist yet and players were expected to invest in both dex for damage and wis for imbues, but that time is long past now...
 

Yamani

Tyrannical Overlord
  • Precise Shot now grants all bows (long and short) a 50% stat mod adjustment, much like two handed weapons.
    • Bows will hit harder per projectile and be a little like the 2 handers of the ranged meta.
    • This is a passive function and does not care what toggles you have on.
If you want some other small balance changes I'd suggest:
1. Manyshot and Rapid shot scale to character level 1.5x instead of BAB 1.5x. This just changes it back to the original design before the BAB cap was put in, with a slight buff overall.
2. Bows and GXbows should be treated as 2 handed weapons in terms of weapon dice. So 1d8+4/2d8+4 for non raid, and 1d8+6/2d8+6 for raid. This will be about another ~25ish base damage.
3. Horizon walker should get an imbue, I'd suggest combining take the opening into Opening shot and replacing it with a 1d4 Force damage imbue scaled to 200%, that applies twice if the target is marked. As we keep going in increasing mob hp fights are getting longer and bows slower speed really doesn't let them utilize the take the opening enhancement very well. Especially in raids with raid bosses having 60+ mil hp.
4. Hunts end for all ranged should not auto-miss on a 1. Or it should continue into the next attack again just like Adrenaline does.

Suggested by someone else:
1: Manyshot should scale to 2x doubleshot.
2: Risk and Reward play: While in the original 15 meters of point-blank shot (no extensions for this) bow attacks scale to 1.25x ranged power.


  • Monsters when Feared will now only go up to 15 meters away from the player, and will in general behave in a much more "panicking in place" fashion.

In the other thread this is worded as "running in circles". So... are they panicking in place or running in circles because one could cause issues with attacks connecting for ranged if they are running in circles, since tracking isn't much of a thing.
 

Wizard

Well-known member
We've fixed or improved several things with the hirelings Teal, Darling, and Rana.

Could you please also fix the hireling AI for other supports and healers? (Fvs, Cleric, Bard). They charge into melee and die immediately, instead of standing back and healing. Giving them a ranged weapon could be the easiest way to fix their AI, if they work similar to Rana then.
 
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