Lamannia U73.4 Overview

[Greiskoradon]

Longbow/shortbow lack critical threat range at end game. Maybe adjust by 1 in Epics so 16-20 or make comparable to other weapons 15-20, etc. Some Imbue dice in Horizon Walker tree would help...say add 3-6 dice. Also no sneak dice in Horizon Walker tree...say add 2-6. Maybe 5% doubleshot in a couple Cores would help.

Thanks

 

[Bjond]

I hope reaper wings/eyes get offered as a perma thing too.

I'd second this one. I'd likely continue to never use them, but if they were permanent, I'd at least buy every color and thus brief drain a little plat out of the game.

many xbow shots continue to get lost in the aether, so at least remove the wind up.

YES! EF/NHB were fun and smooth with great use-flow when they were instant. They feel inept and clunky with the ugly wind-up.

 

[Oliphant]

Would be nice if bow threat range were increased at this point.

 

[Jasparius]

From my testing on lam. Seems like it's a lot stronger than haste boost for me. What are your numbers?

Inquis (based off lam 73.4 changes) for bolts fired:
Light:
20s 42 (2.1 per second)
20s haste 46 (2.3 per second)
18s NHB 64 (3.2 per second)

Heavy:
20s 40 (2 per second)
20s haste 42 (2.1 per second)
18s NHB 64 (3.2 per second)

LD Carry On 10% action boost haste made no difference in numbers seen.

Overall wbat sort of change to Inquis DPS do you think this means ?

 

[Bjond]

Overall wbat sort of change to Inquis DPS do you think this means ?

Burst and Epic Moment burst will drop by ~6%. Live NHB is ~68 bolts, Lam is ~64. So, maybe an overall reduction of about 3~4%?

Generally, it takes a shift of at least 10% for people to "feel" a change and it doesn't feel significant until 15~20%.

So, from a "can I feel the nerf" standpoint, the answer would be NOPE. No change at all.

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IMHO, they badly need to rework xbows for "fake" doubleshot as was done for all other styles. That they fire multiple real bolts is what is preventing them from tuning it without making it feel so slow and clunky that it becomes not-fun to play.

They've said doing fake-double for xbows is hard. So what? Piling hack on hack is what is ruining the game.

 

[Jasparius]

Burst and Epic Moment burst will drop by ~6%. Live NHB is ~68 bolts, Lam is ~64. So, maybe an overall reduction of about 3~4%?

Generally, it takes a shift of at least 10% for people to "feel" a change and it doesn't feel significant until 15~20%.

So, from a "can I feel the nerf" standpoint, the answer would be NOPE. No change at all.

---

IMHO, they badly need to rework xbows for "fake" doubleshot as was done for all other styles. That they fire multiple real bolts is what is preventing them from tuning it without making it feel so slow and clunky that it becomes not-fun to play.

They've said doing fake-double for xbows is hard. So what? Piling hack on hack is what is ruining the game.

So the talk of everyone jumping to repeaters is not going to hold true.

If they do make no rune arm allowed if dual wielding then that would be another few % I assume. And there is also the ability to dial NHB back a bit more.

 

[Bjond]

So the talk of everyone jumping to repeaters is not going to hold true

That would be v.hard to predict. People decide on emotion. Just announcing a nerf could chase them away from INQ even if the reality was no change at all.

Also, I didn't try it myself on Lam. I don't know what the new NHB "feels" like. Repeater EF on live right now is insanely clunky. The overhead numbers scroll at the usual rate, but the anims and sound skip, jump, and pause all the time. It feels horrifically broken.

If NHB ends up feeling like that, yeah, I can see people dumping INQ. They won't find any joy in the feel of a Repeater build, though. Repeater DPS is as good or better than INQ, but the feel is "omg bad".

 

[rabidfox]

So the talk of everyone jumping to repeaters is not going to hold true.

It'll close the damage gap a bunch between the two, but inquis gives a lot of choice for heroic builds while repeaters pretty much limits one to 12+ arti levels. If you don't want to play an arti, you'll use inquis (or other ranged options).

If they do make no rune arm allowed if dual wielding then that would be another few % I assume.

Yeah, that's not gonna happen. Removing rune arm usage would be silly. It would limit heroic mutliclass builds and make machrotechnic worse than it is.

 

[Jasparius]

It'll close the damage gap a bunch between the two, but inquis gives a lot of choice for heroic builds while repeaters pretty much limits one to 12+ arti levels. If you don't want to play an arti, you'll use inquis (or other ranged options).


Yeah, that's not gonna happen. Removing rune arm usage would be silly. It would limit heroic mutliclass builds and make machrotechnic worse than it is.

Macrotechnic would still be for Artifer though?
Ive ever looked at the tree as I dont own it.

 

[Mindos]

Repeater EF on live right now is insanely clunky. The overhead numbers scroll at the usual rate, but the anims and sound skip, jump, and pause all the time. It feels horrifically broken.

Has it been the same Dev working on repeater animation timing rate of fire etc this whole time (years)? Maybe another Dev could give it a shot? I mean, how long does the quality of the work or breadth of ideas have to be subpar before you admit that maybe someone else might be able to improve?

Making something visually and audibly and mechanically unappealing to actually use, plus having to time the rolling over do nothing animation, cannot be defined as "fun". I am tired of being locked into mediocrity and hubris.

 

[Daedricz-1]

Precise Shot now grants all bows (long and short) a 50% stat mod adjustment, much like two handed weapons.

• Bows will hit harder per projectile and be a little like the 2 handers of the ranged meta.
• This is a passive function and does not care what toggles you have on.

As others have said Great Crossbows should be added to this as well.

Also, to make Legendary Aim different from Eerie Aim and dry firing less of an annoyance, can you add you no longer miss on a roll of 1?

 

[Anurakh]

It'll close the damage gap a bunch between the two, but inquis gives a lot of choice for heroic builds while repeaters pretty much limits one to 12+ arti levels. If you don't want to play an arti, you'll use inquis (or other ranged options).


Yeah, that's not gonna happen. Removing rune arm usage would be silly. It would limit heroic mutliclass builds and make machrotechnic worse than it is.

I've never understood why Extra Clip requires Artificer levels. It should be available to anyone with proficiency with the repeater; it's logical. What is the point of limiting the repeater to artificer? The advantage of arti should be in its enhancements and spells.

 

[Abax11]

As others have said Great Crossbows should be added to this as well.

Also, to make Legendary Aim different from Eerie Aim and dry firing less of an annoyance, can you add you no longer miss on a roll of 1?

i'd be happy if they add that to Hunter's end, would be great on feat but i'm not greedy

 

[GrizzlyOso]

Has it been the same Dev working on repeater animation timing rate of fire etc this whole time (years)? Maybe another Dev could give it a shot? I mean, how long does the quality of the work or breadth of ideas have to be subpar before you admit that maybe someone else might be able to improve?

Making something visually and audibly and mechanically unappealing to actually use, plus having to time the rolling over do nothing animation, cannot be defined as "fun". I am tired of being locked into mediocrity and hubris.

I can’t imagine anyone has been “working on” it at all.

I think it’s a wider issue related to the general engine, melee sounds desync quite a lot and same with damage numbers. It’s very jarring.

Maybe the 64bit promised land will solve all.

 

[LurkingVeteran]

Tested the Inquisitive changes on Lamannia tonight, however I cannot compare live to lamannia right now because I just TR'd.

NHB has been tuned back so much that it is getting pretty close to a wash if you use NHB or Haste Boost from Vistani. I am still killing the boss kobold faster with NHB but the wind-up animation and the 18 sec up-time vs. 20 sec on Haste boost puts haste boost in a pretty similar position. It is hard to test perfectly because of the randomness of doubleshots.

Could we finally remove the windup animation from NHB? Please?

I don't like windup either but isn't the overall power level reasonable considering that Inq's are a universal ranged tree? Why should their action boost be better than dedicated martial class trees?

This also makes T5 a tiny bit less obligatory on an Inq build. T5 is still very strong considering the other good stuff there.

 

[droid327]

The stat bonus for bows is definitely a step in the right direction but keep in mind thf gets like 3.5x stat to dmg with all the thf feat line. Not that Precise Shot should do that by itself, but you could sprinkle in a few more +0.5xs in with SotR and Combat Archery. PBS-PS-RS is already effectively the "feat line" for bows, and Combat Archery is "perfect bow fighting", but PBS and RS already have bow bonuses so SotR makes sense too, though that'd create 8 feats for full bow support, so gfy silver flame pure pal non human i guess lol

 

[LurkingVeteran]

The stat bonus for bows is definitely a step in the right direction but keep in mind thf gets like 3.5x stat to dmg with all the thf feat line. Not that Precise Shot should do that by itself, but you could sprinkle in a few more +0.5xs in with SotR and Combat Archery. PBS-PS-RS is already effectively the "feat line" for bows, and Combat Archery is "perfect bow fighting", but PBS and RS already have bow bonuses so SotR makes sense too, though that'd create 8 feats for full bow support, so gfy silver flame pure pal non human i guess lol

Bow gets a bunch of crit and RP bonuses that melee cannot get though. If they give bow 3.5x stat they need to balance the entire package, but this might be a more consistent way of doing it tbh.

 

[droid327]

Bow gets a bunch of crit and RP bonuses that melee cannot get though. If they give bow 3.5x stat they need to balance the entire package, but this might be a more consistent way of doing it tbh.

Bows need more because their effective attack speed is less than swf twf and other ranged, and they lack the innate multi hit of thf

If they're being assigned the role of slow, heavy hitting single target damage (ignoring aoe strikes, just looking at the weapon style itself) then that justifies giving them all the mods to stack. That's what will make up for their disadvantage leveraging imbue and sneak dice and on hit procs like magma.

Also bows are locked into 20/x3 weapons. The crit bonuses baked into feats offset that Inherent disadvantage, where melee can use falchion or kukri or longsword

 

[Phaedra]

Also bows are locked into 20/x3 weapons. The crit bonuses baked into feats offset that Inherent disadvantage, where melee can use falchion or kukri or longsword

It does seem a bit counterintuitive that they got rid of all the expanded crit profile bows at the same time as they made virtually every other weapon (other than picks and hand wraps) an 18-20 x3 with enhancements.

 

[Nothingmore-1]

Writing a little late hoping that my idea gets seen, but like others have said, I would love to see great crossbow get some love here as well. If longbows are seen as the great weapons of the ranged world, then great crossbows are chopped liver. I've had this idea to fix the whole class for years, hoping someone sees it and praying it makes it to live, lol:

20 Rogue Mechanic T6 Core Ability: Give us an endless fusilade here. Make it so you have to have a great crossbow equipped to be able to activate it, and furthermore make it so that you must have 20 rogue levels and 40 mechanic points spent. In my opinion, this would fix great crossbows without doing a stat buff/nerf to it. The big reason for which most don't use it anymore as I understand it is simply because of this, so it would fix it. Feel free to make fun of me, or if there's someone smarter out there that thinks I'm wrong, happy to hear why. Just hope someone will give me the time of day, haha.