Lamannia U76 - Balance Pass

[Thira]

The nerfs to inquis and very slight nerf to vistani do not go far enough.

 

[Lotoc]

The nerfs to inquis and very slight nerf to vistani do not go far enough.

I'd say the nerf to vistani is absolutely fine if they give capstones that are too weak right now extra melee/ranged power. The 5% attack speed that stacks with everything was just too universally strong while also the other sources of attack speed are very style restricted (wolf form, quarterstaves) or typed bonuses.
Inquisitive's nerf is hardly impactful and seems a nerf that isn't so much an issue of balance as much as it is that inquisitive is severely overrepresented.

 

[Tyrbeorn]

Want to share my thoughts:

1. Despite being a light weapon now, Scimitars do not benefit from the new Weapon finesse feat
2. The Mechanic traps are all Painfully slow, which is unfortunate as they are cool options to have!
3. Shintaos Reed in the Wind should receive the same option as Kensai, would be a great fit for a tankier monk.
4. If other Melee strikes are getting large damage buffs, Slaughter in Ravager should get a bump as well.
5. I would love to see Trip & Improved Trip at least get the to hit bonus, if not the damage.
6. Eldritch Ball needs a bump to be similar damage to the wave, even with point reductions it's really hard to pass up the crit in Soul Eater
7. If we're doing point reductions, Sacred Fist is a VERY expensive tree.
8. Vanguard T5 could be bumped up to 20 MP. Even with the bumps, it's still hard to choose it over KotC T5s.

 

[Abax11]

Any thought on either giving archers more Manyshot charges or simply removing charges of it all together and just letting it fire whenever off cooldown? Compare to the other ranged builds the damage "feels" right as long as you have manyshot charges, but they run out quick.

Yeah "feelings," I'll let somebody else do the math.

would love that or even not having charges shared with scattershot to make it a little more viable (the latter really needs some love being t4).

 

[Elfishski]

6. Vanguard (fighter/paladin)
i. Follow up now grants 5/10/15 melee power and lasts 30 seconds.
ii. Shield Smash damage now scales as 25/50/75% instead of 10/20/30 and it's MRR/PRR buff is replaced by a new buff called Battle Guard
Battle Guard: Lasts 12 seconds and stacks 5 times, 10 MRR/PRR per stack. Blocking for more than 3 seconds removes all stacks.
iii. Shield Charge now applies a knock down to targets in area for 2 seconds. DC(10 + highest ability modifier + character level + tripping bonuses), cooldown 25/20/15.
iv. Armor Strength melee power bonus increased from 10 to 15.

Oh, and while vanguard getting some love is nice, I don't think these buffs are well targeted - they add a LOT of power to the low hanging fruit that was already really good, but other than +5 melee power don't make T5 any better. The best vanguard is still Kensei/KOTC T5 - even more so.
- Put that shield smash "battle guard" buff as an extra effect applied to shield smash only after you take shield specialization 5. Now it's still a handy active attack at low levels, it's not an easy +50 prr/mrr to everyone, but T5 vanguard is a very appealing alternative to T5 kensei.

 

[Abramax]

Good, I like balance and updates
When will we have the Arcane Archer Full rework ?

 

[Shall]

My thoughts on crusade is it really shouldn't be the epic strike of a melee combat focused tree as it is right now
It's a full on healing/support ability with some mild fire/light damage.
But it scales entirely with spellpower in a tree that has none, if it was an after effect of a melee/ranged epic strike attack that'd also consecrate the ground beneath you it'd make sense but for now most divine crusader builds tend to skip it and go for Mighty Crusade in t5.
Which is actually another issue - t5 Divine Crusader basically invalidates it's own epic strike choice.

Maybe they could bring back strike down from the old version of the divine crusader tree, tie the cower before me upgrade to it and then merge consecrate in with it's crusade upgrade. Although it's original effect was really similar to holy retribution from the current kotc tree with the light damage, 360 degree aoe, and chance to destroy evil targets.

 

[Kyrr]

The inquisitive nerfs are a good START.

They unfortunately are not enough. They lose 3.5-4% damage, and repeaters just absolutely are better.

 

[GramercyRiff]

Really dislike the change to Death Ward. I remember being hit by neg energy in high skulls when I forgot to have DW up. I suppose neg absorption is extra mandatory now. If I ever play the game with any regularity again, I bet I'll get over this change.

Does thf dps need a buff? I'm not sure how far behind it is relative to other melee. We know aoe isn't a problem of non-thf melee. So strikethrough doesn't even really matter that much except on trips and stuns (10 sec stun cd is a good start). Either give THF some totally overpowered CC or buff their dps, assuming it's lagging far behind. Or do both It's fun to be Hercules or The Incredible Hulk.

Bring back Meld into Shadows

speaking of that why the hell did Inquisitive get Improved Uncanny Dodge? Why was this tree so freaking good for like a decade lmao? Covid counted as like 5 years. Nerf Inq more. Why does this fantasy game not have bows as best ranged weapon?

You really do need to buff casters. I really disliked the constant buffs casters got years ago as they were insanely busted in r10 (alcs and cold druids were comedy), but the nerfs did go too far didn't they. If casters get to dominate r10 kills so their egos can be massaged it's whatever. Worse though is how they are ostracized from raids. That's gotta be the worst design in the game. Excluding people from content is absolute nonsense.

Yeah...let THF be the hard CC masters and let casters knock em all down. That'll be a different meta.

 

[droid327]

Does thf dps need a buff? I'm not sure how far behind it is relative to other melee. We know aoe isn't a problem of non-thf melee. So strikethrough doesn't even really matter that much except on trips and stuns (10 sec stun cd is a good start). Either give THF some totally overpowered CC or buff their dps, assuming it's lagging far behind. Or do both It's fun to be Hercules or The Incredible Hulk.

Don't forget thf gets a proxy buff whenever cooldown attacks get a buff, because they maximize the impact of +% damage attacks with higher stat to dmg multiplier. Especially ones that don't respect offhand attacks, like whirlwind, so twf doesn't get to double dip. The lower attack speed of thf doesn't matter when they're limited by cooldown anyway

A lot of cd attacks got buffed hugely in these updates, so that benefits thf. The QC nerf probably won't matter as much either since most thf i imagine are already deep in fotw

 

[Vladimir]

I am not sure why they hate inquisitive builds. Last time around they took away ranged speed and this time around they are taking ranged power. Every update to inquisitive they have done has been a direct drop to the DPS of those builds. It seems they will not be happy until everyone stops playing inquisitive.

It seems most every other change is a buff to the class. My vanguard is going to love it

Universal enhancement trees that dominate build choices because they are inherently better than class enhancements should be rebalanced. Should encourage diversity with builds by removing the incentive to only build around a Universal enhancement.

 

[Rull]

Don't forget thf gets a proxy buff whenever cooldown attacks get a buff, because they maximize the impact of +% damage attacks with higher stat to dmg multiplier. Especially ones that don't respect offhand attacks, like whirlwind, so twf doesn't get to double dip. The lower attack speed of thf doesn't matter when they're limited by cooldown anyway

A lot of cd attacks got buffed hugely in these updates, so that benefits thf. The QC nerf probably won't matter as much either since most thf i imagine are already deep in fotw

On the contrary; SWF is the one benefitting from all these cleaves. THF already has strikethrough, there's not much point using Cleave instead of some other active attack that also hits multiple targets.
SWF on the other hand comes out on top when they are practically AoE now as well, but with 39% more speed.

We're at a point where THF can't even use all their active attack anyway, so giving them more active attacks doesn't do anything. After a QC, Whirlwind, Boulder's Might, Rally and say Exalted Smite and Holy Retribution (similar for other classes) rotation, the first is already off cooldown, so you can't squeeze in cleave/gCleave anyway.
SWF however, performs these 30% faster so they *can* execute all of them in that time window and squeeze in a couple more.

 

[seph1roth5]

They need to stop; it isn't even the best ranged DPS in game right now. The forum hate on Inquisitive is over the top. Sorry that it allows people with less developed characters to participate, I guess (the only really great thing about it).

Yeah, it has a lower bar to run at cap, it is not currently higher DPS than top end melee/other ranged builds.

I think inquis gets a lot of hate, but they haven't been the best for some time now. I think people just play them because they're easier, and it's a smoother leveling build. It's a popular build for doing multiple lives, since it can go with any class. So devs probably see it being used a lot and think it's OP still.

 

[woq]

I think inquis gets a lot of hate, but they haven't been the best for some time now. I think people just play them because they're easier, and it's a smoother leveling build. It's a popular build for doing multiple lives, since it can go with any class. So devs probably see it being used a lot and think it's OP still.

1) Ranged in general overperforms, and inquisitor being an universal tree that is easy to build and play makes almost any non-ranged/melee class able to do better than they normally can via inquisitor which is obviously not kosher. Whether that is because inquisitor is too strong or the normal functions of said other classes are too weak / unsupported...

2) Inquisitor is easy to access, relatively easy to pull off and also scales into endgame; this combined with 1) makes it something that is too common in general. It is easier to whack a mole than fix the larger (balance) issues with the game; and this nerf isn't that crazy. It is also way more fun than repeater due to the slow animations of repeater and isn't restricted to artificer nor to monk like shuriken, which makes it less likely for those to become *too* common compared to inquisitor, despite imo being stronger already.

 

[Torm]

Shield smash changes are great. Shield charge should always have a 12s cool down like other charge attacks or leap abilities. The Battle Guard changes are decent helping hybrid tanks and providing a modest buff of 5 mrr/prr. Magic fang changes feel like a punitive punishment for anyone who had to stop playing nondruid shifters due to whomever let Magic Fang stay broken for 2+ years...And I was one such player. If you want to make amends change the caster level on LGS active slots to level 20.

 

[Torm]

Consider allowing Battle Guard to increase the MRR cap by 10 per stack.

 

[adengu]

No vile chemist changes? :(

 

[Zvdegor]

The following adjustments have been to class balance for this update. These adjustments are being made as we prepare to debut our upcoming "Fey event" and are part of our regular efforts to adjust class balance on a seasonal basis.

Finesse Pass:

1. All weapons that benefit from the Finesse feat now innately use the higher of Dexterity or Strength for to-hit and damage, just like more recent versions of D&D. Scimitar is now a light weapon with a lower off-hand penalty so it is included.
2. Crossbows will now innately use Dexterity for to-hit and damage.
3. Dagger/Dart/Shuriken Thrown Weapons now innately use the higher of Stength or Dexterity.
4. Throwing Axes/Hammers now use Strength for to-hit and damage.
5. The Brutal Throw Feat is changing to +1 damage while using a throwing axe or hammer for every 8 points of Strength. (Starting stat, level increases and tomes here)
6. Changes to the following feats/enhancements that changed Dexterity to-hit and damage....
   
   

7. Feat/enhancement	Notes
   Weapon Finesse	Now grants +2 to hit and 10% Fortification bypass
   Monk Basic Ninja training	Cut text about dex to damage
   Advance Ninja training	Now grants +1 to hit/damage in addition to double shot perk, cut text about dex to damage
   Ranger Tempest Core 2 and 3	Grants dex to hit and damage with all one-handed weapons weapons respectively. Text about turning scimitar to light cut because it is now a light weapon by default.
   Assassin core 1 and 2	Core 1 cut text about dex, still grants kukri feat, core 2 +1 damage 10% fort bypass, cut text about dex to damage
   Rogue Acrobat core 1,2	Unchanged
   Tabaxi (both types)	Base Core 1 has had its description adjusted, Blazer gets quarterstaff compatibility, Improved Instincts is now quarterstaff-only, and the Improved Nimble Cat enhancement has been removed from Tabaxi since it no longer serves a purpose.
   Deepwood Stalker Improved Weapon Finesse	Changes to 15% Fortification bypass, +3 to hit.
   Bard Swash a Buckle - Swift Strikes	Removing It since it no longer serves a purpose. General changes in Swashbuckler text to support changes.
   Wood Elf Forest Finesse	Allows Dexterity for to-hit and damage with all weapons, and no longer has pre-requisites.
   Morning Lord Grace	Unchanged
   Halfling Skillful Thrower	+2 to-hit and damage when using a Thrown Weapon instead of its previous purpose
   Elf Graces	Allows Dexterity for to-hit and damage with all weapons, and no longer has pre-requisites

General Feat Changes

1. Cleave gains a +1 Critical Threat range and +1 Critical Multiplier Bonus.
2. Great Cleave gains a +1 Threat range +2 Critical Multiplier Bonus
3. Sunder gets a +10 to its attack roll.
4. Improved Sunder gets a +20 to its attack roll and gains a +60% damage bonus.
5. Hamstring Cooldown has been reduced from 15 seconds to 6 seconds and now gains a +50% damage bonus. No longer requires a rank of sneak attack.
6. Slicing Blow Cooldown has been reduced from 15 seconds to 6 and now gains a 40% damage bonus.
7. Whirl Attack gains a +1 Critical Treat Range and +1 Critical Multiplier bonus.
8. Stunning Blow and Sap cooldowns have been decreased from 15 to 10 and their base DC increased from 10 to 14. Sap still has no save.
9. Spring Attack gains a 20% damage bonus.
10. Improved Precise Shot now passively increases the Ability Score Modifier bonus to damage for Longbows and Shortbows by +50%, including when the stance is off. This stacks with Precise Shot.

Tree Stuff

1. Razor Claw: Magic Fang now has a max caster level of 20 so it no longer bugs when it hits over level 40 ahead of schedule.
2. Blight Caster's Blighted Charge and Jaws of Doom will use Conjuration instead of necromancy for DCs.
3. Favored Soul's Archon's Fury - Removed spell point cost per blast. Damage increased to 2d6 from 1d6+1 and stack size reduced to 10 (Change Not in this build)
4. Radiant Servant (Cleric/Sacred Fist):
i. Positive energy shield buff - increase temp hp to double healing skill, and x4 of healing skill is target is level 20 or above.
ii. Efficient Empowered Heal costs 1 Ap per rank instead of 2.
iii. Divine healing now scales with 50% positive spell power (only 50% since the duration is so long). Will now have a line of sight check, double spell range (ray range)
iv. Reactive Heal will either scale with spell power or be increased to 2000. (these kinda effects are tricky sometimes)
5. Mechanic
i. Mechanic Bomb spells in tree will now used disable device plus 1d20 random roll for their DC (just like bard fascinate) - (DC is not working correctly in this build)
ii. Mechanic Improve Traps bonus is now a +1/2/3 disable traps bonus instead of the previous specific bomb bonus. DC mod to "rogue traps" unchanged.
iii. Mechanic Bombs now deal:
a> Tanglefoot 4d6 +1 per sneak attack die in acid damage every 2 seconds. CC as before with Disable Trap Skill DC Driver +1d20 roll
b> Thunder Stone now does 4d6 +1d4/6/8 per sneak attack die in damage. CC as before with Disable Trap Skill DC Driver +1d20 roll
c> Ooze Flask now does 4d6 +1d6/8/12 per sneak attack die in damage. Debuff as before with Disable Trap Skill DC Driver +1d20 roll
d> Time bomb will now scale with 200% range power and also used Disable Trap Skill DC +1d20
iv. Leg shot has been replaced with Line Up and Sit Down - Ranged attack. 250% damage mod. Knocks down target for 2 seconds no save. 6 second cooldown.
v. Swap Core 5 Expert Builder with Sniper from T5 (gets crit multiplier accessible by level 12)
6. Vanguard (fighter/paladin)
i. Follow up now grants 5/10/15 melee power and lasts 30 seconds.
ii. Shield Smash damage now scales as 25/50/75% instead of 10/20/30 and it's MRR/PRR buff is replaced by a new buff called Battle Guard
Battle Guard: Lasts 12 seconds and stacks 5 times, 10 MRR/PRR per stack. Blocking for more than 3 seconds removes all stacks.
iii. Shield Charge now applies a knock down to targets in area for 2 seconds. DC(10 + highest ability modifier + character level + tripping bonuses), cooldown 25/20/15.
iv. Armor Strength melee power bonus increased from 10 to 15.
7. Kensai
i. Shattering Strike/Shot Damage increased to 25/50/100% bonus
ii. Reed in the Wind cooldown now 8 seconds. Damage bonus increased to 20/40/60%. Instead of dodge now grants Battle Guard. No longer requires Dodge Feat to take.
Battle Guard: Lasts 12 seconds and stacks 5 times, 10 MRR/PRR per stack. Blocking for more than 3 seconds removes all stacks.
8. Vistani Knife Fighting
i. Core 6 attack speed bonus only applies to when using a dagger or kukri.
9. Inquistive
i. Undaunted (Core 5) no longer grants Ranged Power.
ii. Master Inquisitive (Core 6)'s Ranged Power is reduced from +10 to +5
iii. Inquisitive's Path no longer grants Ranged Power.
10. Archmage
i. Increase School Mastery 2 DC bonus by +1.
ii. Each core now adds +5 Universal Spell Power (on top of the +1 for points spent in tree)
11. Battle Engineer
i. Tactical Mobility now costs 1AP.
12. Enlightened Spirit
i. Beacon now costs 1AP.
ii. Displacement now costs 1AP.
13. Soul Eater
i. Supreme Hunger now costs 1AP
ii. Feed on Magic now costs 1AP
14. Tainted Scholar
i. Spell Focus now costs 2AP.
ii. Planar Focus now costs 1AP.
iii. Eldritch Power costs 1 AP and grants 2 Dice instead of 1

Misc:
i. Death Ward now longer completely negates negative energy damage from inflict/necro spell damage but reduced it by 50%. This is flagged with the shield trait much like Fire Shield/Energy Shield is for Fire damage. A certain raid boss on the isle of dread will now stop stackings neg energy vul stacks, but this will not affect the Temple of the death wyrm raid. This also applies to monsters when they cast death ward so pale masters and shady clerics may rejoice.

ii.Lost Souls In Reaper Raids: The drop rate for lost souls in raids has been greatly increased (Not in this build)

Epic:
i. Fury of the Wild Epic Strike Quick Cutter - Cooldown increased to 8 seconds. Quick and Bleed duration changed to 10 seconds. Bleed damage reduced to 1d6 per character level. Bleed Damage is increased by rank 1 of Spirit of the Beast by 1d6 and Rank 1 of Primal Force for a net total of 3d6 (Change Not in this build)
ii. Unyielding Sentinel - Celestial Mandate now applies Battle Guard per target hit instead of it's previous buff. (if you are using a shield it always applies 1 extra even if you completely miss). Battle Guard: Lasts 12 seconds and stacks 5 times, 10 MRR/PRR per stack. Blocking for more than 3 seconds removes all stacks.

Known Issue Summary: (recap)
1. Mechanic DCs while displaying correctly in their tool tip do not work correctly.
2. Quick Cutter changes are not in this build.
3. Lost Souls drop rate is not in this build

Ideas for next balance patch

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/renegade-mastermaker-rebalance.4169/

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/machrotechic-epic-moment-improvement.12441/

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/suggestion-improved-loot-all-function.10129/

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/open-lock-with-mouse-click.7109/

 

[Driaza]

I am always late to the party ... started an Inquistor TR build on alt and it gets nerfed

Any chance of a boost to Warlock as thats my main ...

 

[J1NG]

Ideas for next balance patch

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/open-lock-with-mouse-click.7109/

This last one here likely never was able to work prior because of the way DDO is.

Right now, you can accidentally click yourself out of a quest almost 10 meters away because the "interactable" part of the exit is that large, which was made that way because if it wasn't you wouldn't be able to hit it, etc. So UI interaction is one issue; last thing you'd want is to attempt to do something but by being close to a trap or locked item begin to do something that might put you in danger by running your character through the animation of disarming/unlocking.

Then there's the "interact" with the mouse likely can be made to auto go for the Open Lock/Disable Device skill, but the likely problem is if it enables it, then if you have the necessary skill levels (but not the class feature to disable/open), then it would still permit you to use it by the mouse UI enabling it in preperation for the mouse click, which would mean you wouldn't need anyone to unlock or any trapper class because if you have enough skills available, it would allow you to do it without having access to the ability that is associated with opening locks/disabling devices. Hence why there was likely no progress on this front.

My guess is this one likely is not viable without extreme levels of changes (near DDO2 request levels) and players should expect this to be one of those "shot in the dark" chances of happening.

J1NG