Lamannia U76 - Balance Pass

[EinarMal]

Obviously, I want the person I responded to to say it.

Ok, so next step, you want them to do the same whatever 100k dps do, and you want them to do it with what spell, DBF?

And you want that to not ruin the game how?

Ok, back to my point, single target needs to be addressed before anything else.

Currently ranged/melee have excellent AOE damage already, is the game ruined? I am not sure why people believe that casters are the only ones doing AOE damage now, there are a ton of good AOE options for crossbow and melee.

The game does not disntinguish between AOE and single target very well. A crossbow user applies the same "single target" damage to multiple targets, as does a melee using quick cutter, WWA, chains, etc... This is true of a caster as well, whether the spell is "single target" or AOE you are going to use your highest damaging spells in the rotation.

If anything, casters have more of a distinction between single target and AOE spells already, with the dice scaling at least of a few spells like Iceberg.

So no casters do not just have a single target damage problem, espeically in R10 they just flat out suck at all forms of damage compared to physical damage.

I will say they do not need to change heroic in my opinon. Whatever they do should be done at cap, the minimum would be removing the ridiculous R10 penalty. It is adding a penalty on spell DPS which is currently about 50% of the damage of phsyical DPS WITHOUT this extra penalty.

 

[GrizzlyOso]

Currently ranged/melee have excellent AOE damage already, is the game ruined? I am not sure why people believe that casters are the only ones doing AOE damage now, there are a ton of good AOE options for crossbow and melee.

The game does not disntinguish between AOE and single target very well. A crossbow user applies the same "single target" damage to multiple targets, as does a melee using quick cutter, WWA, chains, etc... This is true of a caster as well, whether the spell is "single target" or AOE you are going to use your highest damaging spells in the rotation.

If anything, casters have more of a distinction between single target and AOE spells already, with the dice scaling at least of a few spells like Iceberg.

So no casters do not just have a single target damage problem, espeically in R10 they just flat out suck at all forms of damage compared to physical damage.

First, both qc and ranged obviously need to be tuned down. That isn’t the topic of conversation.

Second, melee can't mass hold dbf across a map, nor can qc target nearly as many mobs as spells can.

Third, this was already the state of the game not just a few years ago where casters just obliterated all rooms. Which I know you already know about, and are just conveniently ignoring.

the point is you need to make their single target viable (outside of one spell), then you can adjust the rest as needed.

I just said this is what I would address first (outside of r7 nerf, which obviously should be removed and I said was a dumb band aid at the time) so you actually have more toggles to address balance going forward.

 

[Necrodancer]

Obviously, I want the person I responded to to say it.

Ok, so next step, you want them to do the same whatever 100k dps do, and you want them to do it with what spell, DBF?

And you want that to not ruin the game how?

Ok, back to my point, single target needs to be addressed before anything else.

Almost as if some people (me , I was one of them) warned multiple times against the dangers of overbuffing and releasing overpowered classes, subclasses and whatnot.

Now, where do casters should fall in all of this? How much damage are they supposed to deal before we stop? If some classes can make R10 look like a joke and make no mistake, many people complained about R10 being a metaphorical walk in the park, what do you think will happen when casters are brought up to par?

It's no wonder caster pass is taking this long. SSG is fully aware of the problem but they have no idea on how to fix it and it's all their fault.

 

[Knowbody important]

Obviously, I want the person I responded to to say it.

Ok, so next step, you want them to do the same whatever 100k dps do, and you want them to do it with what spell, DBF?

And you want that to not ruin the game how?

Ok, back to my point, single target needs to be addressed before anyt

Currently ranged/melee have excellent AOE damage already, is the game ruined? I am not sure why people believe that casters are the only ones doing AOE damage now, there are a ton of good AOE options for crossbow and melee.

The game does not disntinguish between AOE and single target very well. A crossbow user applies the same "single target" damage to multiple targets, as does a melee using quick cutter, WWA, chains, etc... This is true of a caster as well, whether the spell is "single target" or AOE you are going to use your highest damaging spells in the rotation.

If anything, casters have more of a distinction between single target and AOE spells already, with the dice scaling at least of a few spells like Iceberg.

So no casters do not just have a single target damage problem, espeically in R10 they just flat out suck at all forms of damage compared to physical damage.

I will say they do not need to change heroic in my opinon. Whatever they do should be done at cap, the minimum would be removing the ridiculous R10 penalty. It is adding a penalty on spell DPS which is currently about 50% of the damage of phsyical DPS WITHOUT this extra penalty.

This, but with the caveat that heroic AND epic are fine. It's not really an issue until running higher level content at 34. There's a legendary scaling issue that needs to be resolved. My suggestion (in the suggestions forum) has been to increase the contribution value of each % of spell power post level 20 or 30, to help resolve the issue. So its not a flat increase, rather a reward for gear farming/good character building.

 

[EinarMal]

First, both qc and ranged obviously need to be tuned down. That isn’t the topic of conversation.

Second, melee can't mass hold dbf across a map, nor can qc target nearly as many mobs as spells can.

Third, this was already the state of the game not just a few years ago where casters just obliterated all rooms. Which I know you already know about, and are just conveniently ignoring.

the point is you need to make their single target viable (outside of one spell), then you can adjust the rest as needed.

I just said this is what I would address first (outside of r7 nerf, which obviously should be removed and I said was a dumb band aid at the time) so you actually have more toggles to address balance going forward.

They already nerfed MCL and Dragon breath, and fixed some other things. So, no I am not ignoring. You cannot do the same amount of damage as you once could, which you are conveniently forgetting. They made that change, but never reverted the R10 nerf.

With wings fast movement it is trivial for a melee to jet across a room, hit Roar, clear pack rinse repeat.

Or the crossbow just blows them all up across the room.

 

[Drachmor]

Please, make sure Whirlwind gets *something* to match the huge buffs cleave and great cleave are receiving, given that it is a three-feat investment. Even if not +1 range and +1 multi - one of those?

 

[LetsGetDangerous]

First, both qc and ranged obviously need to be tuned down. That isn’t the topic of conversation.

Second, melee can't mass hold dbf across a map, nor can qc target nearly as many mobs as spells can.

Third, this was already the state of the game not just a few years ago where casters just obliterated all rooms. Which I know you already know about, and are just conveniently ignoring.

the point is you need to make their single target viable (outside of one spell), then you can adjust the rest as needed.

I just said this is what I would address first (outside of r7 nerf, which obviously should be removed and I said was a dumb band aid at the time) so you actually have more toggles to address balance going forward.

I fully agree. Thank you for articulating.

 

[G.W.]

Please, make sure Whirlwind gets *something* to match the huge buffs cleave and great cleave are receiving, given that it is a three-feat investment. Even if not +1 range and +1 multi - one of those?

7. Whirl Attack gains a +1 Critical Treat Range and +1 Critical Multiplier bonus.

It's there.

 

[WielderofGigantus]

7. Whirl Attack gains a +1 Critical Treat Range and +1 Critical Multiplier bonus.

It's there.

Update 76 Release Notes

Here are the release notes for Update 76: Symphony of the Fey, released on Wednesday, November 19th, 2025.

www.ddo.com

Sorry, I can't find it in the patch notes.

 

[Luckycuss]

My main, an Alchemist caster, is a class and racial completionist with 172 the reaper points, all the epic past lives, and up to date gear.

On R7-10, Alchemist's DPS can not keep up with my three past life, bow using, Ranger with 44 reaper points, three epic past lives, and older, hand me down gear from my Alchemist.

And my ranger get the buff....

Well I guess that's ok, my ranger can't compete with my three past life Monk thrower which is a whole other league of DPS.

Relatively, this update 76 makes my Alchemist even less competitive on high end content.

 

[Buddha5440]

It's not though. It's a summary form this thread of what a subset of vocal forumite players want.

And hopefully the Devs remain smart enough to sort the wheat from the chaff. Gods help the game if they can't!

Responding to those who are the loudest is not a good idea.

 

[seph1roth5]

Currently ranged/melee have excellent AOE damage already, is the game ruined? I am not sure why people believe that casters are the only ones doing AOE damage now, there are a ton of good AOE options for crossbow and melee.

The game does not disntinguish between AOE and single target very well. A crossbow user applies the same "single target" damage to multiple targets, as does a melee using quick cutter, WWA, chains, etc... This is true of a caster as well, whether the spell is "single target" or AOE you are going to use your highest damaging spells in the rotation.

If anything, casters have more of a distinction between single target and AOE spells already, with the dice scaling at least of a few spells like Iceberg.

So no casters do not just have a single target damage problem, espeically in R10 they just flat out suck at all forms of damage compared to physical damage.

I will say they do not need to change heroic in my opinon. Whatever they do should be done at cap, the minimum would be removing the ridiculous R10 penalty. It is adding a penalty on spell DPS which is currently about 50% of the damage of phsyical DPS WITHOUT this extra penalty.

ranged aoe blows. The aoe is way smaller than a normal fireball, and is easily blocked by other enemies. Battle engineer is the only one that isn't crap half the time, because when it DOES hit halfway decently, it can hit 3x.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

You really and truly want balance?

OK then. Prepare for pain...

AOE should be the exclusive domain of casters and THF melee. I love playing ranged compared to melee, it's so easy, but balanced? Hell no!

Giving ranged AOE was a mistake. As was making it so easily accessible to non THF melee. Crowd control too should be tied to AOE. Only applicable to more than one mob at a time if you have AOE. SDK chains were fun while it lasted.

Addressing those would help rebalance in favour of casters and THF.

Melee DPS should be ahead of casters and ranged. Too easy otherwise.

And SWF should be just that. None of this offhand exception nonsense with orbs and stuff. TWF should be the go to if you want versatility extra aug slots and easy set completions. Same with throwers (even mine ) and other ranged.

Something like:
SWF/Wraps +10%
TWF +5%
THF (but AOE)
Sword and Shield
Bows -5%
Throwers/x-bows -10%
Caster (but AOE) -15%
Full Tank -30%

Should be the general order of DPS.

Game will be harder. Nobody happy. See... Balance.

 

[woq]

Nah, AoE is fine and fun. Just gotta give the mobs some tools/defenses/tricks too. Monsters have been left behind in the arms race for too long. Give the reapers some teeth. If players think it's too easy, up the difficulty. The problem is that currently the difficulty doesn't go high enough for non-raid content.

Battle Guard & feat changes going in as planned is a curious choice. This patch - balance wise - basically ****** any melee who doesn't splash bonus feat and battle guard giving classes like ftr/monk/dl with a battering ram.

 

[Lotoc]

Battleguard is specifically in fighter trees that dragonlord doesn't get - Kensei and Vanguard.
But of course it's going to be part of the growing list of reasons people think dragonlord needs nerfs.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Nah, AoE is fine and fun. Just gotta give the mobs some tools/defenses/tricks too. Monsters have been left behind in the arms race for too long. Give the reapers some teeth. If players think it's too easy, up the difficulty. The problem is that currently the difficulty doesn't go high enough for non-raid content.

Battle Guard & feat changes going in as planned is a curious choice. This patch - balance wise - basically ****** any melee who doesn't splash bonus feat and battle guard giving classes like ftr/monk/dl with a battering ram.

This is the problem. Fun<>balance. Fun is also highly subjective. I'm sure it was fun for casters blasting everything in a room back in the day - for them. And it's definitely fun these days taking out a load of mobs having the only thing getting close to me is their Remnant drops at my feet - for me.

If we truly want balance, we're all going to have to take some pain here. Good things seldom come easy.

One of the best passes that's happened in the game IMO was the stat squish a couple of years ago. We're still having fun despite that, and the pain along with it at the time.

The nature of fun is personal. It has to be balanced by the fact our fun may be at the cost of someone else's.

So, fk fun! In this context it's just a construct/an excuse to avoid proper balance. And it will still very much be there in any case.

 

[woq]

Battleguard is specifically in fighter trees that dragonlord doesn't get - Kensei and Vanguard.
But of course it's going to be part of the growing list of reasons people think dragonlord needs nerfs.

its in the monk tree that your dragon lord will splash

Point was that you want to be in one of these three classes because they, by far, make the most out of these changes.

Edit: I assumed reed in the wind in monk also got changed, but was that pulled back? I don't see it in patch notes - if it's no longer (or never was? maybe a fever dream of mine) the case that monks don't get it then this balance patch is a *lot* more reasonable and I stand corrected.

 

[Rull]

Currently ranged/melee have excellent AOE damage already, is the game ruined?

Yeah, kind of.

They should have made two variant for active attacks (feats, enhancements, etc.). One that says 200% damage single target and another that says 100% damage but AoE. Now we have the 'choice' between a 100% single target attack or a 200% AoE attack; that's just not very interesting.

Technically Adrenaline still beats Quick Cutter in terms of single target damage... but in a stroke of stupidity they made them mutually exclusive by making them a multiselector. They had the perfect opportunity to give the players some interesting gameplay in having to choose between max damage on that carnage reaper OR Quick Cutting the whole group for less damage per target but more damage combined... they even had the shared cooldown of epic strikes in place already... and they still missed the shot.

And now they are making Whirlwind the second-best single target attack. I'm not saying DDO is the worst game ever but it has some serious missed potential.

 

[Lazuli]

Patience, ladies and gentlemen. The caster patch will come eventually, this wasn't about them.

It's a shame you need to have 21 lvls and be martially specialized to be able to leverage Patience. Should reroll and use weapons with better threat range.

Two years since we've been in this situation is long enough to wait. I warned them this was going to happen and they didn't listen, so don't ask me for patience.

Because on top of everything else, they keep screwing casters over with every update. This nerf to one of the few decent spells left is a nerf for casters, sorry. And it doesn't help negative casters at all, and then they have the nerve to tell us to be happy. Happy for what?

Fix the state of casters and spells, don't nerf any more spells!

 

[woq]

Two years since we've been in this situation is long enough to wait. I warned them this was going to happen and they didn't listen, so don't ask me for patience.

Because on top of everything else, they keep screwing casters over with every update. This nerf to one of the few decent spells left is a nerf for casters, sorry. And it doesn't help negative casters at all, and then they have the nerve to tell us to be happy. Happy for what?

Fix the state of casters and spells, don't nerf any more spells!

It was a joke ok. The joke was that casters should reroll martial cuz the only patience that is rewarded is the kind where you get more crit multi with weapons.