Lamannia U76 - Balance Pass

[VinoeWhines]

Every Epic Destiny Tree should be the de facto choice for the class that has a focus on it and offer great splashes to things you might not necessarily focus on.
For Melees:
Fury of the Wild was done nicely.
Fatesinger is very nice as well.
Legendary Dreadnaught is pretty solid.
Grand Master of Flowers has some nice defenses and bypasses and kept Everything Is Nothing and a double Elusive Target %.
Shadow Dancer can splash but not Hit as a main tree at the moment.

 

[Shear-buckler]

That is absolutely true....even worse, it's own description, calls it a splash Tree...(how sad)...

So you agree that your notion of damage types defining trees was wrong? Finally.

Next up. If all epic strikes were identical except damage type there would be essentially no meaningful choice between them and choosing different strikes would offer no added varitey. Agreed?

 

[Shear-buckler]

Every Epic Destiny Tree should be the de facto choice for the class that has a focus on it

A completely different topic but I will say that i strongly disagree. I think that sort of railroading only limits choices and build variety.

 

[VinoeWhines]

So you agree that your notion of damage types defining trees was wrong? Finally.

I never said the damage types defining trees was wrong, in fact I'm suggesting expounding on it. FIN.

Next up. If all epic strikes were identical except damage type there would be essentially no meaningful choice between them and choosing different strikes would offer no added varitey. Agreed?

On the docket:
Look up at my suggestions, or here, I can re-quote:

But it "Should" focus on it more, is tied to what I'm suggesting, not the "only thing".
They can bring up the main damage as well. This is where the diversity can come into play.

If your a Barbarian, your recklessness Slashes everything in sight(AOE). What Quick Cutter is.
If your a Bard, you hit your Sound damage Conically.
If your a Stealth/Rogue type you have a way to induce Sneak/Helpless damage.
You know Monks use inner Force to accomplish amazing things. Bring that out in its Strikes.
I never neglected the "damage value" but suggested to improve upon the Archetype of what the Tree is and tie its Damage value to it.
Machrotechnic lets everyone use Rune Arms...

Is this not "variety"?
Are you not entertained(with suggestions)?
What more "meaningful" choices should you dare suggest?

 

[VinoeWhines]

A completely different topic but I will say that i strongly disagree. I think that sort of railroading only limits choices and build variety.

I can see your point and that would be a valid one, for sure, as their are Universal Enhancement Trees and I always welcome them for variety.
I prefer choice. But the devs "have to" railroad the game somewhat based on D&D Wizards of the Coast rules. So the rails can only be spread out so much.

 

[VinoeWhines]

The damage "types" are just the breadcrumbs so that Hansel and Gretel can find their way back to their "house" Trees.

 

[Shear-buckler]

I never said the damage types defining trees was wrong, in fact I'm suggesting expounding on it. FIN.

So you are back to claiming that gmof is the force damage tree? Your flip-flopping makes it hard to follow your posts.

On the docket:
Look up at my suggestions, or here, I can re-quote:


Is this not "variety"?
Are you not entertained(with suggestions)?
What more "meaningful" choices should you dare suggest?

That suggestion doesnt really say anything, it is just vauge descriptions. What you suggested earlier was that all epic strikes were to be made identical with only the damage type differentiating them, motivated by a false notion that damage type is important.

There is an interesting discussion at the core of this; if one epic strike is all about damage then how much more damage can it do compared to CC/buff strikes before it is considered the only real option.
"Damage type" and "tree damage type themes" does not factor in to the interesting part of the discussion in any way. Those things are just flavours added later, they will never be what actually differentiates the abilities.

 

[VinoeWhines]

So you are back to claiming that gmof is the force damage tree? Your flip-flopping makes it hard to follow your posts.

I never left it and am putting the onus on you to "fix it"
Put down numbers on what it should be. Why do you escape it and come back at criticizing a suggestion.
Put down your Epic Strike.

 

[VinoeWhines]

That suggestion doesnt really say anything, it is just vauge descriptions. What you suggested earlier was that all epic strikes were to be made identical with only the damage type differentiating them, motivated by a false notion that damage type is important.

All the Caster Elemental damage does the same dice damage in general. I don't hear Cold casters complaining that Fire Casters are boring because they are casting the same damage but a different element. (The complaint I have seen is more that other elements aren't hitting the same numbers, this could be different now as I don't usually follow casters.)

The Epic Strikes I suggested was to bring up the damage to be equal to Quick Cutters damage. If it was the same "type" then "that would be boring" but the fact that it would be a different "type" wasn't my focus but just a suggestion in making it different. Do I want a completely "different affect/type" of attack? Sure I'm up for a different suggestion. Guess what? You haven't put one down, just complain and said not once what you would put, exactly what number/effect/type at all.

There is no false notion that type is important. DDO classifies that, they say Orange/Red Name Monster = DR, CL and players use that info to attack them. That's one of the reasons that when your in an R10 and you swing and the numbers are 0+0+0, you have to equip or enhance your weapon to do that "type" of damage against a mob. "Type" was just a suggestion, "type" can mean, Cold Iron, Adamantine, Good, Chaotic...etc. I merely put out one of a thousand suggestions. You hate it, fine. Put your mature response on what "You" would suggest it to be.

 

[VinoeWhines]

There is an interesting discussion at the core of this; if one epic strike is all about damage then how much more damage can it do compared to CC/buff strikes before it is considered the only real option.
"Damage type" and "tree damage type themes" does not factor in to the interesting part of the discussion in any way. Those things are just flavours added later, they will never be what actually differentiates the abilities.

Solid. Great. We are now getting you somewhere. This is where you could of expounded upon, then crap on an idea, that was "just" an idea, not a Developers Notes Update.
You want interesting? I'm down for that discussion. What can make this interesting? I'm willing to hear it out. There are others that have previously brought out interesting things but some of them are saddened that they get crapped on for sharing. I don't have a problem with someone not liking what I suggest but at the minimum put out a rebuttal to what they think it should be, than just saying..."that sucks or that's boring."

I would be all for different strategies for each Martial Trees Epic Strike. But that is going to take resources for the devs to do and if they aren't going to focus on that any time soon, well then at least make the Epic Strikes for Martial Trees be on more of an even playing field for now until, the devs can figure out what thematically each Tree should have.
The old Epic Destiny Trees at least had that going and could of been tweaked within their Trees.
Taking away Feats and locking them into Trees, was not such a great idea, from my point of view.

 

[VinoeWhines]

BTW if your suggestion is "better": than I'll agree, but guess what? The suggestion I gave was a minimalist, laziest-least amount of thought, improvement, I could give to at "the very least" bump up the other Martial Epic Destiny Strikes.
If I had a say in the matter, I would go with what are the main Class players strengths and weaknesses and how to improve them with investments and give them buffed abilities on timers and how the devs give "unlocked" abilities as well to different class types, that normally don't have them; like how Machrotechnic gives Rune Arm use. Some might not like that idea but it opens up class builds.

 

[Shear-buckler]

I never left it and am putting the onus on you to "fix it"
Put down numbers on what it should be. Why do you escape it and come back at criticizing a suggestion.
Put down your Epic Strike

Fix what? Your delusion that the defining theme of the gmof destiny is force damage?

 

[VinoeWhines]

Fix what? Your delusion that the defining theme of the gmof destiny is force damage?

Why don't you "fix" the Epic Strike, let's start there.
Your jumping around your complaints. Lets take it line by line. Lets start with Quick Cutter. Put down number. Go!

 

[Shear-buckler]

All the Caster Elemental damage does the same dice damage in general. I don't hear Cold casters complaining that Fire Casters are boring because they are casting the same damage but a different element. (The complaint I have seen is more that other elements aren't hitting the same numbers, this could be different now as I don't usually follow casters.)

The Epic Strikes I suggested was to bring up the damage to be equal to Quick Cutters damage. If it was the same "type" then "that would be boring" but the fact that it would be a different "type" wasn't my focus but just a suggestion in making it different. Do I want a completely "different affect/type" of attack? Sure I'm up for a different suggestion. Guess what? You haven't put one down, just complain and said not once what you would put, exactly what number/effect/type at all.

The epic strikes already are different. Just nerf quick cutter and make dire charge less terrible to use and we are pretty much golden.

As for the caster comment. The parallell to your suggestion would be to offer every spell to every element (every color). That would be the classic example of false variety.

There is no false notion that type is important. DDO classifies that, they say Orange/Red Name Monster = DR, CL and players use that info to attack them. That's one of the reasons that when your in an R10 and you swing and the numbers are 0+0+0, you have to equip or enhance your weapon to do that "type" of damage against a mob. "Type" was just a suggestion, "type" can mean, Cold Iron, Adamantine, Good, Chaotic...etc. I merely put out one of a thousand suggestions. You hate it, fine. Put your mature response on what "You" would suggest it to be.

What are you talking about? Who is saying red named, oranges named = DR?

 

[Shear-buckler]

Why don't you "fix" the Epic Strike, let's start there.
Your jumping around your complaints. Lets take it line by line. Lets start with Quick Cutter. Put down number. Go!

You cant attack me for "jumping around" and completely ignore the content of the post. Can you stop jumping around?
Is the defining theme of gmof force damage? Simple question.

 

[Necrodancer]

What are you talking about? Who is saying red named, oranges named = DR?

Hy, want to place bets when he realize that some monsters have innate DR that scales with difficulty and is entirely dependent on the MATERIAL, ALIGNMENT and TYPE of a weapon? You know, things we already have in game and used to do before overwhelming dps became the go to brain-dead reaction to everything.

I can't wait to deal bludgeoning damage with a longsword, we could even get a Mordschlag (German school of swordsmanship for attacking with a pommel when using a sword) animation XD.

At this point, I think we are farming Vinoe for nonsense xp.

 

[VinoeWhines]

All those responses and not one skin in the game number? Why don't you put down what the Epic Strike numbers should be?

Just nerf quick cutter and make dire charge less terrible to use and we are pretty much golden.

Put down your version not just, make this less, make this better.... why don't you type your Epic Strike actual strike(with number, "effects" and cooldown.

It seems that there needs to be focus as you keep latching on to other things, so instead of introducing more points as a rebuttal, lets just close out the first one. What is your Epic Strike(with numbers and effects and cooldowns for Quick Cutter? We can discuss the other examples after.

 

[VinoeWhines]

Hy, want to place bets when he realize that some monsters have innate DR that scales with difficulty and is entirely dependent on the MATERIAL, ALIGNMENT and TYPE of a weapon? You know, things we already have in game and used to do before overwhelming dps became the go to brain-dead reaction to everything.

Not everyone knows these things as Shear is stuck on "type" as a no go zone. It was a suggestion to stick to the Devs, themed Epic Destiny.
Innate DR on mobs is common knowledge among most Melee players(just because that's brought up in an example about Orange/Red name, doesn't mean all have it), that are in upper content, especially when they're soloing.

I can't wait to deal bludgeoning damage with a longsword, we could even get a Mordschlag (German school of swordsmanship for attacking with a pommel when using a sword) animation XD.

Well the way the devs are furthering the game, you might get your wish as it won't matter if your doing bludgeoning damage with a stiletto.

At this point, I think we are farming Vinoe for nonsense xp.

Another poster that adds nothing to the post. Put your Fix; and tell the Devs how you would balance it.
It's easy to be a magpie and sit on a perch and hail down nonsense from above.

Come down and put down your Epic Strike if it bugs you that much.

 

[Shear-buckler]

All those responses and not one skin in the game number? Why don't you put down what the Epic Strike numbers should be?

Put down your version not just, make this less, make this better.... why don't you type your Epic Strike actual strike(with number, "effects" and cooldown.

It seems that there needs to be focus as you keep latching on to other things, so instead of introducing more points as a rebuttal, lets just close out the first one. What is your Epic Strike(with numbers and effects and cooldowns for Quick Cutter? We can discuss the other examples after.

No I am pretty focused. I am focusing on your suggestion to make all epic strikes identical with different colors.

 

[Shear-buckler]

So that's a no. Got it. Typical softy, will bully a suggestion but when push comes to shove....shrivels away. Got it.

This is page 43 of a months old thread. Making suggestions here is useless. I am trying to make you see why your suggestion is not good so that you dont spam it in the next real thread.

Also, I did give you my suggestion. If you focus more on reading than on writing you would not have missed it.