Lamannia U76 - Balance Pass

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Willsave20

Indie Game Developer
The following adjustments have been to class balance for this update. These adjustments are being made as we prepare to debut our upcoming "Fey event" and are part of our regular efforts to adjust class balance on a seasonal basis.

Finesse Pass:
  1. All weapons that benefit from the Finesse feat now innately use the higher of Dexterity or Strength for to-hit and damage, just like more recent versions of D&D. Scimitar is now a light weapon with a lower off-hand penalty so it is included.
  2. Crossbows will now innately use Dexterity for to-hit and damage.
  3. Dagger/Dart/Shuriken Thrown Weapons now innately use the higher of Stength or Dexterity.
  4. Throwing Axes/Hammers now use Strength for to-hit and damage.
  5. The Brutal Throw Feat is changing to +1 damage while using a throwing axe or hammer for every 8 points of Strength. (Starting stat, level increases and tomes here)
  6. Changes to the following feats/enhancements that changed Dexterity to-hit and damage....

  7. Feat/enhancementNotes
    Weapon FinesseNow grants +2 to hit and 10% Fortification bypass
    Monk Basic Ninja trainingCut text about dex to damage
    Advance Ninja trainingNow grants +1 to hit/damage in addition to double shot perk, cut text about dex to damage
    Ranger Tempest Core 2 and 3Grants dex to hit and damage with all one-handed weapons weapons respectively. Text about turning scimitar to light cut because it is now a light weapon by default.
    Assassin core 1 and 2Core 1 cut text about dex, still grants kukri feat, core 2 +1 damage 10% fort bypass, cut text about dex to damage
    Rogue Acrobat core 1,2Unchanged
    Tabaxi (both types)Base Core 1 has had its description adjusted, Blazer gets quarterstaff compatibility, Improved Instincts is now quarterstaff-only, and the Improved Nimble Cat enhancement has been removed from Tabaxi since it no longer serves a purpose.
    Deepwood Stalker Improved Weapon FinesseChanges to 15% Fortification bypass, +3 to hit.
    Bard Swash a Buckle - Swift StrikesRemoving It since it no longer serves a purpose. General changes in Swashbuckler text to support changes.
    Wood Elf Forest FinesseAllows Dexterity for to-hit and damage with all weapons, and no longer has pre-requisites.
    Morning Lord GraceUnchanged
    Halfling Skillful Thrower+2 to-hit and damage when using a Thrown Weapon instead of its previous purpose
    Elf GracesAllows Dexterity for to-hit and damage with all weapons, and no longer has pre-requisites

General Feat Changes

1. Cleave gains a +1 Critical Threat range and +1 Critical Multiplier Bonus.
2. Great Cleave gains a +1 Threat range +2 Critical Multiplier Bonus
3. Sunder gets a +10 to its attack roll.
4. Improved Sunder gets a +20 to its attack roll and gains a +60% damage bonus.
5. Hamstring Cooldown has been reduced from 15 seconds to 6 seconds and now gains a +50% damage bonus. No longer requires a rank of sneak attack.
6. Slicing Blow Cooldown has been reduced from 15 seconds to 6 and now gains a 40% damage bonus.
7. Whirl Attack gains a +1 Critical Treat Range and +1 Critical Multiplier bonus.
8. Stunning Blow and Sap cooldowns have been decreased from 15 to 10 and their base DC increased from 10 to 14. Sap still has no save.
9. Spring Attack gains a 20% damage bonus.
10. Improved Precise Shot now passively increases the Ability Score Modifier bonus to damage for Longbows and Shortbows by +50%, including when the stance is off. This stacks with Precise Shot.

Tree Stuff

1. Razor Claw:
Magic Fang now has a max caster level of 20 so it no longer bugs when it hits over level 40 ahead of schedule.
2. Blight Caster's Blighted Charge and Jaws of Doom will use Conjuration instead of necromancy for DCs.
3. Favored Soul's Archon's Fury - Removed spell point cost per blast. Damage increased to 2d6 from 1d6+1 and stack size reduced to 10 (Change Not in this build)
4. Radiant Servant (Cleric/Sacred Fist):

i. Positive energy shield buff - increase temp hp to double healing skill, and x4 of healing skill is target is level 20 or above.
ii. Efficient Empowered Heal costs 1 Ap per rank instead of 2.
iii. Divine healing now scales with 50% positive spell power (only 50% since the duration is so long). Will now have a line of sight check, double spell range (ray range)
iv. Reactive Heal will either scale with spell power or be increased to 2000. (these kinda effects are tricky sometimes)
5. Mechanic
i. Mechanic Bomb spells in tree will now used disable device plus 1d20 random roll for their DC (just like bard fascinate) - (DC is not working correctly in this build)
ii. Mechanic Improve Traps bonus is now a +1/2/3 disable traps bonus instead of the previous specific bomb bonus. DC mod to "rogue traps" unchanged.
iii. Mechanic Bombs now deal:
a> Tanglefoot 4d6 +1 per sneak attack die in acid damage every 2 seconds. CC as before with Disable Trap Skill DC Driver +1d20 roll
b> Thunder Stone now does 4d6 +1d4/6/8 per sneak attack die in damage. CC as before with Disable Trap Skill DC Driver +1d20 roll
c> Ooze Flask now does 4d6 +1d6/8/12 per sneak attack die in damage. Debuff as before with Disable Trap Skill DC Driver +1d20 roll
d> Time bomb will now scale with 200% range power and also used Disable Trap Skill DC +1d20
iv. Leg shot has been replaced with Line Up and Sit Down - Ranged attack. 250% damage mod. Knocks down target for 2 seconds no save. 6 second cooldown.
v. Swap Core 5 Expert Builder with Sniper from T5 (gets crit multiplier accessible by level 12)
6. Vanguard (fighter/paladin)
i. Follow up now grants 5/10/15 melee power and lasts 30 seconds.
ii. Shield Smash damage now scales as 25/50/75% instead of 10/20/30 and it's MRR/PRR buff is replaced by a new buff called Battle Guard
Battle Guard: Lasts 12 seconds and stacks 5 times, 10 MRR/PRR per stack. Blocking for more than 3 seconds removes all stacks.
iii. Shield Charge now applies a knock down to targets in area for 2 seconds. DC(10 + highest ability modifier + character level + tripping bonuses), cooldown 25/20/15.
iv. Armor Strength melee power bonus increased from 10 to 15.
7. Kensai
i. Shattering Strike/Shot Damage increased to 25/50/100% bonus
ii. Reed in the Wind cooldown now 8 seconds. Damage bonus increased to 20/40/60%. Instead of dodge now grants Battle Guard. No longer requires Dodge Feat to take.
Battle Guard: Lasts 12 seconds and stacks 5 times, 10 MRR/PRR per stack. Blocking for more than 3 seconds removes all stacks.
8. Vistani Knife Fighting
i. Core 6 attack speed bonus only applies to when using a dagger or kukri.
9. Inquistive
i.
Undaunted (Core 5) no longer grants Ranged Power.
ii. Master Inquisitive (Core 6)'s Ranged Power is reduced from +10 to +5
iii. Inquisitive's Path no longer grants Ranged Power.
10. Archmage
i. Increase School Mastery 2 DC bonus by +1.
ii. Each core now adds +5 Universal Spell Power (on top of the +1 for points spent in tree)
11. Battle Engineer
i. Tactical Mobility now costs 1AP.
12. Enlightened Spirit
i. Beacon now costs 1AP.
ii. Displacement now costs 1AP.
13. Soul Eater
i. Supreme Hunger now costs 1AP
ii. Feed on Magic now costs 1AP
14. Tainted Scholar
i. Spell Focus now costs 2AP.
ii. Planar Focus now costs 1AP.
iii. Eldritch Power costs 1 AP and grants 2 Dice instead of 1

Misc:
i. Death Ward now longer completely negates negative energy damage from inflict/necro spell damage but reduced it by 50%. This is flagged with the shield trait much like Fire Shield/Energy Shield is for Fire damage. A certain raid boss on the isle of dread will now stop stackings neg energy vul stacks, but this will not affect the Temple of the death wyrm raid. This also applies to monsters when they cast death ward so pale masters and shady clerics may rejoice.

ii.Lost Souls In Reaper Raids: The drop rate for lost souls in raids has been greatly increased (Not in this build)

Epic:

i. Fury of the Wild Epic Strike Quick Cutter - Cooldown increased to 8 seconds. Quick and Bleed duration changed to 10 seconds. Bleed damage reduced to 1d6 per character level. Bleed Damage is increased by rank 1 of Spirit of the Beast by 1d6 and Rank 1 of Primal Force for a net total of 3d6 (Change Not in this build)
ii. Unyielding Sentinel - Celestial Mandate now applies Battle Guard per target hit instead of it's previous buff. (if you are using a shield it always applies 1 extra even if you completely miss). Battle Guard: Lasts 12 seconds and stacks 5 times, 10 MRR/PRR per stack. Blocking for more than 3 seconds removes all stacks.

Known Issue Summary: (recap)
1. Mechanic DCs while displaying correctly in their tool tip do not work correctly.
2. Quick Cutter changes are not in this build.
3. Lost Souls drop rate is not in this build
Overall I understand why these changes were made, however only focusing on what appears to be melee/ranged feels like a slap in the face. I'm not so disappointed in the changes that were made versus the changes that needed to be made. Melees have been in a really great spot lately in the game imo, and I'm not really appalled by the changes that were made, they were needed.

This being said, I'd like to see casters brought back to prime in reaper and a larger effort towards that support. Not saying its annoying, but its kinda boring to 12 stack pure melees in a raid that just QC a boss into oblivion. Give casters a QC equivalent attack/bump and help even the playstyles in your game. I havent touched caster in years because they are clearly just ignored.
 

Xgya

Well-known member
Wow. This is pretty awesome.
Absolutely love the proposed changes to Mechanic, and the weapon changes were due a long while ago.
Love the changes to Sunder (and especially giving some *oomph* to the Improved version)

Bows will be buffed until morale improves!

I can understand the nerf to Quick Cutter, given just how prevalent it became.

The change to Death Ward will give a few players a few surprises, but I'm mostly ambivalent about it.
 

Lotoc

Well-known member
We used to have one. it was called dragon breath. it was... nerfed. xD
A single spell ignoring the problem doesn't mean there wasn't a problem, especially considering it left Light and Sonic casters in the gutter.
Dragon Breath got nerfed, the overall floor got raised a bit as far as spell epic strikes go.
The main issue is the floor is still too low and there isn't an overinflated ceiling right now that has people ignoring the overall issue.
 

Neain

Well-known member
I think my issue with DW getting its nerf is that it went from saving me from neg damage in some cases, to now its going to be useless againt the neg energy after enough skulls. half of 10k neg damage is still 5k and plenty to drop most non-tanks.
 

Dazling

Well-known member
I missed these types of balance changes being more frequent - glad to see them return. I have no complaints; feels very well bounded to shuffle things around while bringing up some less-used trees and reducing use of some overperforming things (inquisitives, quick cutter) without being an overcorrection. Nice work.
 

Fisto Mk I

Well-known member
Inexorable advance - this 1 button wonder is way too overtuned, needs to be toned down.
Previous nerf to it was not enough for you?
Repeaters - highest single target dps in the game and it's not even close. - i think dedicated melees should at least be able to match ranged dps, won't even mention casters here.
Lolwut? According to @Ying, Inquisitives is single ranged builds that even can try compete almost as equal with melees (and he consider this as a necessary evil, since some raids include mechanics that prevent comfortable close combat). Almost equal, not overperformed. And with proposal changes in U76 melee be even more powerful, lol.
 

Fhrek

One Badge of Honor achieved
The following adjustments have been to class balance for this update. These adjustments are being made as we prepare to debut our upcoming "Fey event" and are part of our regular efforts to adjust class balance on a seasonal basis.

Finesse Pass:
  1. All weapons that benefit from the Finesse feat now innately use the higher of Dexterity or Strength for to-hit and damage, just like more recent versions of D&D. Scimitar is now a light weapon with a lower off-hand penalty so it is included.
  2. Crossbows will now innately use Dexterity for to-hit and damage.
  3. Dagger/Dart/Shuriken Thrown Weapons now innately use the higher of Stength or Dexterity.
  4. Throwing Axes/Hammers now use Strength for to-hit and damage.
  5. The Brutal Throw Feat is changing to +1 damage while using a throwing axe or hammer for every 8 points of Strength. (Starting stat, level increases and tomes here)
  6. Changes to the following feats/enhancements that changed Dexterity to-hit and damage....

  7. Feat/enhancementNotes
    Weapon FinesseNow grants +2 to hit and 10% Fortification bypass
    Monk Basic Ninja trainingCut text about dex to damage
    Advance Ninja trainingNow grants +1 to hit/damage in addition to double shot perk, cut text about dex to damage
    Ranger Tempest Core 2 and 3Grants dex to hit and damage with all one-handed weapons weapons respectively. Text about turning scimitar to light cut because it is now a light weapon by default.
    Assassin core 1 and 2Core 1 cut text about dex, still grants kukri feat, core 2 +1 damage 10% fort bypass, cut text about dex to damage
    Rogue Acrobat core 1,2Unchanged
    Tabaxi (both types)Base Core 1 has had its description adjusted, Blazer gets quarterstaff compatibility, Improved Instincts is now quarterstaff-only, and the Improved Nimble Cat enhancement has been removed from Tabaxi since it no longer serves a purpose.
    Deepwood Stalker Improved Weapon FinesseChanges to 15% Fortification bypass, +3 to hit.
    Bard Swash a Buckle - Swift StrikesRemoving It since it no longer serves a purpose. General changes in Swashbuckler text to support changes.
    Wood Elf Forest FinesseAllows Dexterity for to-hit and damage with all weapons, and no longer has pre-requisites.
    Morning Lord GraceUnchanged
    Halfling Skillful Thrower+2 to-hit and damage when using a Thrown Weapon instead of its previous purpose
    Elf GracesAllows Dexterity for to-hit and damage with all weapons, and no longer has pre-requisites

General Feat Changes

1. Cleave gains a +1 Critical Threat range and +1 Critical Multiplier Bonus.
2. Great Cleave gains a +1 Threat range +2 Critical Multiplier Bonus
3. Sunder gets a +10 to its attack roll.
4. Improved Sunder gets a +20 to its attack roll and gains a +60% damage bonus.
5. Hamstring Cooldown has been reduced from 15 seconds to 6 seconds and now gains a +50% damage bonus. No longer requires a rank of sneak attack.
6. Slicing Blow Cooldown has been reduced from 15 seconds to 6 and now gains a 40% damage bonus.
7. Whirl Attack gains a +1 Critical Treat Range and +1 Critical Multiplier bonus.
8. Stunning Blow and Sap cooldowns have been decreased from 15 to 10 and their base DC increased from 10 to 14. Sap still has no save.
9. Spring Attack gains a 20% damage bonus.
10. Improved Precise Shot now passively increases the Ability Score Modifier bonus to damage for Longbows and Shortbows by +50%, including when the stance is off. This stacks with Precise Shot.

Tree Stuff

1. Razor Claw:
Magic Fang now has a max caster level of 20 so it no longer bugs when it hits over level 40 ahead of schedule.
2. Blight Caster's Blighted Charge and Jaws of Doom will use Conjuration instead of necromancy for DCs.
3. Favored Soul's Archon's Fury - Removed spell point cost per blast. Damage increased to 2d6 from 1d6+1 and stack size reduced to 10 (Change Not in this build)
4. Radiant Servant (Cleric/Sacred Fist):

i. Positive energy shield buff - increase temp hp to double healing skill, and x4 of healing skill is target is level 20 or above.
ii. Efficient Empowered Heal costs 1 Ap per rank instead of 2.
iii. Divine healing now scales with 50% positive spell power (only 50% since the duration is so long). Will now have a line of sight check, double spell range (ray range)
iv. Reactive Heal will either scale with spell power or be increased to 2000. (these kinda effects are tricky sometimes)
5. Mechanic
i. Mechanic Bomb spells in tree will now used disable device plus 1d20 random roll for their DC (just like bard fascinate) - (DC is not working correctly in this build)
ii. Mechanic Improve Traps bonus is now a +1/2/3 disable traps bonus instead of the previous specific bomb bonus. DC mod to "rogue traps" unchanged.
iii. Mechanic Bombs now deal:
a> Tanglefoot 4d6 +1 per sneak attack die in acid damage every 2 seconds. CC as before with Disable Trap Skill DC Driver +1d20 roll
b> Thunder Stone now does 4d6 +1d4/6/8 per sneak attack die in damage. CC as before with Disable Trap Skill DC Driver +1d20 roll
c> Ooze Flask now does 4d6 +1d6/8/12 per sneak attack die in damage. Debuff as before with Disable Trap Skill DC Driver +1d20 roll
d> Time bomb will now scale with 200% range power and also used Disable Trap Skill DC +1d20
iv. Leg shot has been replaced with Line Up and Sit Down - Ranged attack. 250% damage mod. Knocks down target for 2 seconds no save. 6 second cooldown.
v. Swap Core 5 Expert Builder with Sniper from T5 (gets crit multiplier accessible by level 12)
6. Vanguard (fighter/paladin)
i. Follow up now grants 5/10/15 melee power and lasts 30 seconds.
ii. Shield Smash damage now scales as 25/50/75% instead of 10/20/30 and it's MRR/PRR buff is replaced by a new buff called Battle Guard
Battle Guard: Lasts 12 seconds and stacks 5 times, 10 MRR/PRR per stack. Blocking for more than 3 seconds removes all stacks.
iii. Shield Charge now applies a knock down to targets in area for 2 seconds. DC(10 + highest ability modifier + character level + tripping bonuses), cooldown 25/20/15.
iv. Armor Strength melee power bonus increased from 10 to 15.
7. Kensai
i. Shattering Strike/Shot Damage increased to 25/50/100% bonus
ii. Reed in the Wind cooldown now 8 seconds. Damage bonus increased to 20/40/60%. Instead of dodge now grants Battle Guard. No longer requires Dodge Feat to take.
Battle Guard: Lasts 12 seconds and stacks 5 times, 10 MRR/PRR per stack. Blocking for more than 3 seconds removes all stacks.
8. Vistani Knife Fighting
i. Core 6 attack speed bonus only applies to when using a dagger or kukri.
9. Inquistive
i.
Undaunted (Core 5) no longer grants Ranged Power.
ii. Master Inquisitive (Core 6)'s Ranged Power is reduced from +10 to +5
iii. Inquisitive's Path no longer grants Ranged Power.
10. Archmage
i. Increase School Mastery 2 DC bonus by +1.
ii. Each core now adds +5 Universal Spell Power (on top of the +1 for points spent in tree)
11. Battle Engineer
i. Tactical Mobility now costs 1AP.
12. Enlightened Spirit
i. Beacon now costs 1AP.
ii. Displacement now costs 1AP.
13. Soul Eater
i. Supreme Hunger now costs 1AP
ii. Feed on Magic now costs 1AP
14. Tainted Scholar
i. Spell Focus now costs 2AP.
ii. Planar Focus now costs 1AP.
iii. Eldritch Power costs 1 AP and grants 2 Dice instead of 1

Misc:
i. Death Ward now longer completely negates negative energy damage from inflict/necro spell damage but reduced it by 50%. This is flagged with the shield trait much like Fire Shield/Energy Shield is for Fire damage. A certain raid boss on the isle of dread will now stop stackings neg energy vul stacks, but this will not affect the Temple of the death wyrm raid. This also applies to monsters when they cast death ward so pale masters and shady clerics may rejoice.

ii.Lost Souls In Reaper Raids: The drop rate for lost souls in raids has been greatly increased (Not in this build)

Epic:

i. Fury of the Wild Epic Strike Quick Cutter - Cooldown increased to 8 seconds. Quick and Bleed duration changed to 10 seconds. Bleed damage reduced to 1d6 per character level. Bleed Damage is increased by rank 1 of Spirit of the Beast by 1d6 and Rank 1 of Primal Force for a net total of 3d6 (Change Not in this build)
ii. Unyielding Sentinel - Celestial Mandate now applies Battle Guard per target hit instead of it's previous buff. (if you are using a shield it always applies 1 extra even if you completely miss). Battle Guard: Lasts 12 seconds and stacks 5 times, 10 MRR/PRR per stack. Blocking for more than 3 seconds removes all stacks.

Known Issue Summary: (recap)
1. Mechanic DCs while displaying correctly in their tool tip do not work correctly.
2. Quick Cutter changes are not in this build.
3. Lost Souls drop rate is not in this build
Game Reality -> Abysm -> Dev's proposed "balance pass"

I was hopeful that would have some real balance, but... as expected... some melee tweaks, nerf to inquisitive and more gutting on Casters.

Was really necessary to destroy Death Ward? The spell utterly lost purpose to exist, since any Deathblock item prevents instant kill... the only purpose to use Death Ward was Negative Energy Absortion, now it is HALVED?

And the minor tweaks to Warlocks are good, but lackluster in the great schemes of gameplay reality.
 

Lotoc

Well-known member
Game Reality -> Abysm -> Dev's proposed "balance pass"

I was hopeful that would have some real balance, but... as expected... some melee tweaks, nerf to inquisitive and more gutting on Casters.

Was really necessary to destroy Death Ward? The spell utterly lost porpuse to exist, since any Death Ward item prevents instant kill... the only purpose to use Death Ward was Negative Energy Absortion, now it is HALVED?

And the minor tweaks to Warlocks are good, but lackluster in the great schemes of gameplay reality.
It's still going to negate energy drain effects and means they don't have to keep giving raid enemies like Ghost Flame and Corrupted Unicorns an immunity bypass/death ward strip in order to be threatening.
Like if they have to give an enemy negative immunity strip to deal with death ward you go straight to 0% neg absorb because of how immunity stripping works in this game - with this change when designing a raid boss doing negative energy damage you instead just have 50%+ negative absorb.
 

Anurakh

Little Nixie
Was really necessary to destroy Death Ward? The spell utterly lost purpose to exist, since any Deathblock item prevents instant kill... the only purpose to use Death Ward was Negative Energy Absortion, now it is HALVED?
It was one of the few spells left to ruin, lol. But don't worry! Soon, every martial tree will have immunity to negative energy, while clerics and druids will have to die from negative energy because their spell is useless.

Balanced, yay!
 

Anurakh

Little Nixie
It's still going to negate energy drain effects and means they don't have to keep giving raid enemies like Ghost Flame and Corrupted Unicorns an immunity bypass/death ward strip in order to be threatening.
This is trash, a mutilated spell, while Shadowdancer gives non-dispellable immunity to energy drain to almost every martial character in the game. Now clerics have to switch to ShadowdanceR?

Shameful. I'm sorry, but shameful.

And negative casters are still trash with this change. As if this helps much! Come on, devs, go fight with a negative caster against golems and the many enemies immune to negative. This doesn't fix anything. Half damage and only against deathwarded mobs is trash.

Make DR do something against weapons!
 
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