Lamannia U76 - Balance Pass

[Christhemiss]

bugs:
reed in the wind can be activated when on cooldown. it plays the attack animation and sound, but gives no damage or proc
expert builder in t5 mechanic requires 18 rogue

something is wrong with time bomb. it should not have any damage variance (testing character has 0% crit chance)
line up and sit down plays the aoe crossbow animation (hella giga slow that interrupts animations) but isnt aoe
tanglefoot has an ungodly slow animation. please auto quicken it and the other traps
tangle foot has no initial dot tick

everything else i tried seemed to work, soo good job (didnt test the finesse stuff, and some of the class trees as well as misc and epic changes)

 

[Neain]

It's still going to negate energy drain effects and means they don't have to keep giving raid enemies like Ghost Flame and Corrupted Unicorns an immunity bypass/death ward strip in order to be threatening.
Like if they have to give an enemy negative immunity strip to deal with death ward you go straight to 0% neg absorb because of how immunity stripping works in this game - with this change when designing a raid boss doing negative energy damage you instead just have 50%+ negative absorb.

I dont like that they had the mechanic in the first place. there are so many ways to deal damage, why did it HAVE to be negative? in fact, it would have been better to lower the neg damage a bit and add a secondary so that people could benefit from DW in a positive way instead of just saying "they can ignore the damage??? no!!! we must make them take the exact damage that we want to design around!" (please note that this is very dramaticized and I highly doubt anyone really said anything along thoes lines)

Edit: they still need the bypass for undead when enemy mobs cast negative. if all the did was remove DW as a viable spell (if it wont stack with fire/cold shield since thoes are perm on some items), and they removed the bypass, then you would see undead tanks because they wont need to worry about the neg damage.

 

[Fhrek]

Come on, devs, go fight with a negative caster against golems and the many enemies immune to negative. This doesn't fix anything. Half damage and only against deathwarded mobs is trash.

Yes, as it seems they don't play their own game, they don't care about 90% of the game... is just for the sake of Raids.

Death Ward and Dispell spammers in some quests, IK are useless on Epic and Legendary content. But, lets gut casters a bit more, because TWO FREAKING RAID MOBS.

 

[rabidfox]

The DW change is more mobs my inflict/negative spells will work on. Sure, it's only 50% damage, but that more damage than zero. So it's a good thing for a few of my builds.

As for DW usage on a player, I'm not certain how that'll affect me as I always have DW going and thus have zero clue what kind of incoming damage I'll end up taking at the 50% value.

 

[Solarpower]

This is trash, a mutilated spell, while Shadowdancer gives non-dispellable immunity to energy drain to almost every martial character in the game. Now clerics have to switch to ShadowdanceR?

Now, after you've mentioned that ability, expect it to be nerfed in the next round of "balance" patch...
(It's a shame, it's a useful ability even for Clerics/Druids, since Beholders can still remove buffs, including Death Ward...)

while clerics and druids will have to die from negative energy because their spell is useless.

Don't know about Clerics but now I expect Druids would lost 2/3 of their spells Soon™ to make them

just like more recent versions of D&D.

Honestly, 5ED D&D Druid's spells list is . And it was my favourite class both in PnP and DDO.

 

[Anurakh]

The DW change is more mobs my inflict/negative spells will work on. Sure, it's only 50% damage, but that more damage than zero. So it's a good thing for a few of my builds.

As for DW usage on a player, I'm not certain how that'll affect me as I always have DW going and thus have zero clue what kind of incoming damage I'll end up taking at the 50% value.

No cleric, FVS, or druid should have to increase their negative energy damage by even a single drop just because these devs only know how to ruin spells.

They need to actually help negative casters; this is a joke.

 

[Fhrek]

As for DW usage on a player, I'm not certain how that'll affect me as I always have DW going and thus have zero clue what kind of incoming damage I'll end up taking at the 50% value.

Sometimes I get surprised when a Tower-bound Living Disintegrate on Heroic Tower of Frost hit me with +300 damage using Dust to Dust... After the "balance pass" I will expect some random mob casting Negative Energy will deal +500 damage on a Heroic Lv 9 quest.

 

[Solarpower]

but that more damage than zero.

Oh, please, like you don't have some other spells to deal with those rare situational mobs. Or step aside and let your party members deal with them. It's a group game after all.

Well, yeah, there are a lot of solo players nowadays due to all the power creep. Yet it's just bring us back to "use some other spells" in this situations.

 

[Lotoc]

Sometimes I get surprised when a Tower-bound Living Disintegrate on Heroic Tower of Frost hit me with +300 damage using Dust to Dust... After the "balance pass" I will expect some random mob casting Negative Energy will deal +500 damage on a Heroic Lv 9 quest.

Dust to Dust is what you're hit with when you fail a save vs disintegrate, it is meant to be huge damage.

Anyway if you want to actually know how common negative energy damage is just play an undead build, you get healed pretty often.

 

[rabidfox]

Dust to Dust is what you're hit with when you fail a save vs disintegrate, it is meant to be huge damage.

It's also untyped damage which tends to be extra nasty.

 

[Anurakh]

Oh, please, like you don't have some other spells to deal with those rare situational mobs. Or step aside and let your party members deal with them. It's a group game after all.

Well, yeah, there are a lot of solo players nowadays due to all the power creep. Yet it's just bring us back to "use some other spells" in this situations.

The problem is the hyper-specialization the game currently requires.

You can't change the damage your mantle deals (caster dps is very dependant of the ED mantle), and the equipment only favors having one or at most two elements with good stats, so you always end up screwed against enemies immune to your main element.

Meanwhile, martials have zero problems obliterating everything in their path, and basically all the stats that are a problem for martials in D&D mean nothing in DDO. Damage Reduction? They've been given DR bypass galore. Displacement? All melee characters have true seeing. Etc. Etc. Etc.

All the problems always affect casters without bypass, and in the case of negative damage, it's an element with many immunities.

Using multiple elements, not just one, would be a great solution if the devs supported it, but they don't. On the contrary, they actively penalize everyone who tries.

But half damage against deathwarded enemies is certainly not a solution for negative casters. There are still many mobs against which they are useless, and half damage is still trash.

 

[Fhrek]

It's also untyped damage which tends to be extra nasty.

Which is fine. And was not the point... With random Champions combos, untyped damage and other damage sources not covered by protection buffs on heroic quests... we don't need to worry about the usefulness of Death Ward. Now, we will have to, because one more spell is useless.

 

[ChickenMobile]

Many good changes here!

I made a bow monk build to test and the extra ability score dmg from Precise Shot/Improved seems to work. However Zen Archery is no longer allowing Wisdom to hit. It does still allow being centered with a longbow.

Edit: it does give wis to hit with the feat but not the one auto-granted feat from Flowers it seems

 

[rabidfox]

Which is fine. And was not the point... With random Champions combos, untyped damage and other damage sources not covered by protection buffs on heroic quests... we don't need to worry about the usefulness of Death Ward. Now, we will have to, because one mroe spell is useless.

With DW, we'll have 50% absorb, the same as fire shield. So the question will be how bad is negative damage from mobs vs fire damage. I'll still be using DW non-stop from lvl 3 onwards via clickies/spells. I'm mostly curious if it just means I take a little bit more damage here and there, or if there's some unknown mob combo that'll be brokenly deadly that SSG will need to deal with. I don't think I'll really know until I knock out a life post changes with leveling.

 

[Underflow]

Excellent changes all around! Assuming Death Ward stacks with Fire Shield/Cold Shield/Sheathe, it'll allow more content to use varied damage types, rather than forcing some kind of dumb mechanic like Ravenloft's Death Curse, or just using Untyped damage. I'm all for opening up new avenues for mixed mechanics.

At worst, it'll cause players to get oneshot by mobs they previously dismissed as 'unimportant and ignorable', though I can see Necrotic Ray and Finger of Death being potentially huge chunks of incoming damage that weren't there before.

It was utterly stupid that a zero-investment, party-wide buff available from a level 3 clicky could completely shut down an entire subcategory of enemy casters at 34 (Necromancers).

Do shield/nightshield/magic missile immunity next.

However, I disagree with removing the Dex-To-Hit and Dex-To-Damage grants from Ninja Spy.

Even in-Class, Dragon Disciple can gain Centering with Axes, Picks and Hammers, so I feel like the extra flexibility would be necessary to ensure class cohesion. This is completely disregarding Centered Kensai, which is also affected by these changes.

More than a few trees remain less than useful, but the important thing is that progress is being made.

 

[Fhrek]

With DW, we'll have 50% absorb, the same as fire shield. So the question will be how bad is negative damage from mobs vs fire damage. I'll still be using DW non-stop from lvl 3 onwards via clickies/spells. I'm mostly curious if it just means I take a little bit more damage here and there, or if there's some unknown mob combo that'll be brokenly deadly that SSG will need to deal with. I don't think I'll really know until I knock out a life post changes with leveling.

I'm already on a 3 day cycle to 1-20 -> TR -> repeat and doing with low Lvl quest shenninagans.
The issue is that several mobs just keep spamming Dispel even at lower levels, after the patch, even casting a click or potion of DW will be waste of time... just bulldoze to kill the mob.

 

[Anurakh]

With DW, we'll have 50% absorb, the same as fire shield. So the question will be how bad is negative damage from mobs vs fire damage. I'll still be using DW non-stop from lvl 3 onwards via clickies/spells. I'm mostly curious if it just means I take a little bit more damage here and there, or if there's some unknown mob combo that'll be brokenly deadly that SSG will need to deal with. I don't think I'll really know until I knock out a life post changes with leveling.

I've died many times with Fire Absorption and even as a Fire Elemental with Fire Shield because the damage in this game (especially many enemy DoTs) is absolutely stupid.

No, this is destroying one of the few decent spells left.

But don't worry, they'll give all weapon users immunity soon, because why not? They've done it with every spell they've ruined.

 

[Anurakh]

Excellent changes all around! Assuming Death Ward stacks with Fire Shield/Cold Shield/Sheathe, it'll allow more content to use varied damage types, rather than forcing some kind of dumb mechanic like Ravenloft's Death Curse, or just using Untyped damage. I'm all for opening up new avenues for mixed mechanics.

At worst, it'll cause players to get oneshot by mobs they previously dismissed as 'unimportant and ignorable', though I can see Necrotic Ray and Finger of Death being potentially huge chunks of incoming damage that weren't there before.

It was utterly stupid that a zero-investment, party-wide buff available from a level 3 clicky could completely shut down an entire subcategory of enemy casters at 34 (Necromancers).

Do shield/nightshield/magic missile immunity next.
made.

Damn no! Let spells be useful!

Nerf only clickies and items. Spells should mean something!

Or remove all spells from the game; they're all being destroyed anyway!

 

[Terpilar]

I think my issue with DW getting its nerf is that it went from saving me from neg damage in some cases, to now its going to be useless againt the neg energy after enough skulls. half of 10k neg damage is still 5k and plenty to drop most non-tanks.

Depending on how this stacks, this may make negative energy absorption items relevant at cap again.

 

[Solarpower]

Using multiple elements, not just one, would be a great solution if the devs supported it, but they don't. On the contrary, they actively penalize everyone who tries.

Well, I can't say I disagree with that, but I do want to point out that not every player play on R10+ solo. On the lower difficulties, switching elements to destroy 1-2 specific monsters is totally OK.
While the nerf to defensive part of DW will affect every player.