Lamannia U76 - Balance Pass

[Phern]

Not sure why inquisitive are getting needed again with all the improvements to melee. Seems like range will end up sucking again due to an over correction. I’m curious why you don’t do the finesse and melee changes and then see how it goes. Some of us simply prefer range and would also prefer to not suck.

 

[Drachmor]

I don't really agree with removing the dex to hit and damage with centered weapons from Ninja Spy as currently it allows you to use dex for weapons which don't inherently support it, like Quarterstaves, Battleaxes, Warhammers, Heavy Picks (Dragon Disciple) or weapons made centered through Kensei
It also means that using conjured weapons like Shadowblades and Flameblades as a Ninja Spy dex build will be less functional as these conjured weapons inherently only scale with wisdom.

I seriously hope they can preserve dex to things like quarterstaves at the least here (because cmon), and also specialized weapons that can be centered as you've said.

There are many subtle, interesting interactions between centering in different trees. This takes away a lot of that power if unaddressed

 

[Drachmor]

ii.Lost Souls In Reaper Raids: The drop rate for lost souls in raids has been greatly increased (Not in this build)

Noob question: doesn't this contradict other attempts to minimize persistent (or semi-persistent) entities created in quests?

Should lost souls be changed to apply SP directly to the whole party (or some other way to still allow others to benefit from them besides whoever killed the monster?)

 

[Lotoc]

Some suggestions for casters:
- Change Intensify Spell Metamagic to +5 caster level and max caster level, Passive: +2 pact and blast dice and 140 spellpoints.
Gives it seperate identity to Empower and makes it more relevant in epic/legendary levels where you'll have much more spellpower, the passive pact and blast dice make up for the fact warlock blasts do not benefit from caster levels.

- Add feat Legendary Metamagics for 30+
"Each of your metamagics cost one less and you gain an always active bonus for each these metamagic feats you have
Quicken Spell - Gain 10% spell cooldown reduction.
Empower Spell - Gain 1% spell crit chance.
Maximize Spell - Gain 10% spell crit damage.
Heighten Spell - The maximum caster level of your spells is increased to 20 before all other increases to Maximum Caster Level
Intensify Spell - Gain 10% spell cost reduction.
Embolden Spell - Enemies no longer automatically succeed a save on a 20 against your spells."
Doesn't have to be these effects specifically, just something to help metamagics that feel massively impactful in heroic levels feel a bit more relevant for their feat cost when you're pushing over a thousand spellpower and DCs well over 120.

-Rework the Master of X feats besides Master of Knowledge
A lot of the master of X feats are awful as a consequence of just increasing the maximum caster levels of spells that are bad even with the bonus, hell Master of Poisons is in the running for the worst feat in the game (+10 caster levels to a terrible MCL 20 spell sure does a lot and +5 damage per tick to wave of poison...)
Make these options to give immunity strips to casters through the feat system if they're unfortunate enough to have not been given a strip through class levels or enhancements, make each one an SLA of about 6th level with a 10 second cooldown 20 second duration much alike the Chaosmancer racial SLAs
For example
Master of Death: Blast an area with overwhelming negative energy, all enemies hit lose immunity to negative energy damage if they have it and take d6+6 per caster level in negative energy damage.
It'd also serve to give another spell option for casters who don't feel they have quite enough to build a full rotation.

-Unkill Carrion Swarm
As the the epic strike most designed around sustained damage it's sad that even with maximized DCs there is always at least a 5% chance you'll drop all stacks because a target saved.
Change a saving throw on Carrion Swarm from dropping all stacks to simply negating the damage for a tick.

 

[Kimbere]

LOL - there's a massive amount of whataboutism in this thread. Saying, "I need this because X got Y" isn't really much of a justification and just makes your case look weak.

If you have a good case (and casters certainly do), it can stand on its own merits without needing to drag everyone else down.

Secondly, it's hard to want to support someone's case when they're simultaneously trying to drag down everyone that's not them.

 

[GrizzlyOso]

Are there any divine spells that matter after this change to deathward? Divine spells are now garbage.

Add this to the list of reasons to not play FVS or Cleric any more

You were playing fvs or cleric for … dw ? The thing literally everyone has?

I always have at least one fvs in my stable, this will change my play zero.

Please continue with removing the immunities and making things more like this. Percentages with ways to build for more or less.

The idea that deathward is the thing that has you all off your rockers, bizarre.

 

[droid327]

Boulders Might doesnt work with Qstaff while in Hive Master form - is that WAI? Hive Master isnt part of Natural Fighting so it should...

 

[Jaspar]

Not sure why inquisitive are getting needed again with all the improvements to melee. Seems like range will end up sucking again due to an over correction. I’m curious why you don’t do the finesse and melee changes and then see how it goes. Some of us simply prefer range and would also prefer to not suck.

The game will be a lot easier for the designers and developers if we all just played the same melee build.

The minor nerf to QC was needed but then they went and made all the other melee AOE more powerful.

 

[Abiding Dude]

brutal throw still a joke/not saving hand axes/hammers/darts.

Give it +2 crit multipler

 

[Lotoc]

brutal throw still a joke/not saving hand axes/hammers/darts.

Give it +2 crit multipler

Martial throwers just need a tree to support them and a counterpart to Simple thrown weapon expertise/shuriken expertise.
If you go giving them +2 multiplier than that just means they get left in this bad spot and SSG will be afraid to give them proper support
Like with Heavy Maces being in the state they are because Scourge exists.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Whirlwind takes three feats so that’s a very big investment.

Yes and it is already very strong. I take it on all my characters.

I dont see why it needs a buff when melee AoE burst DPS already is so strong in general. Is the role of every melee supposed to be to jump into the middle of an as large pack of monsters as possible and instantly blow them up wih AoE attacks?

Where is the consideration of how this affects balance within the melee styles and with regards to casters that prevously were balanced around filling the aoe burt damage role?

There is a massive shift going on and people are cheering becuse they see higher numbers, but there are consequences.

 

[ChickenMobile]

brutal throw still a joke/not saving hand axes/hammers/darts.

Give it +2 crit multipler

Martial throwers just need a tree to support them and a counterpart to Simple thrown weapon expertise/shuriken expertise.
If you go giving them +2 multiplier than that just means they get left in this bad spot and SSG will be afraid to give them proper support
Like with Heavy Maces being in the state they are because Scourge exists.

All these changes to throwing/ranged feats. +50% ability damage x2, Str or Dex main stats etc. makes me think the next Archetype might be Throwing Axe/Hammer centered. A throwing barb?

Always thought throwing weapons should work different from Bows/Cbows anyway. Instead of going through enemies with Improved Precise Shot, perhaps a Ricochet Shot (similar to warlock chain)?

 

[Archmage]

"
10. Archmage
i. Increase School Mastery 2 DC bonus by +1.
ii. Each core now adds +5 Universal Spell Power (on top of the +1 for points spent in tree)"

Archmage approves help to Archmage tree.

Archmage thinks Archmage tree can use more buffs. How about increase to crit chance and crit gamage?

 

[Shear-buckler]

What do you mean? Quick cutter costs currently 4 AP to max out - now it's 21 to have the same ability. Yes, many builds go hard on fury anyways... But it doesn't change that now it actually costs something.

It is not much of a cost when you want to spend the points in the tree anyways. It mostly makes the ability less stupid at low epic levels.

The problem is that even with the extra 2 seconds of cooldown it is still by far the strongest melee epic strike and it will still completely define any melee character.
The cooldown needs to be atleast 12-15 seconds.

 

[Jaspar]

It is not much of a cost when you want to spend the points in the tree anyways. It mostly makes the ability less stupid at low epic levels.

The problem is that even with the extra 2 seconds of cooldown it is still by far the strongest melee epic strike and it will still completely define any melee character.
The cooldown needs to be atleast 12-15 seconds.

Or the amount of damage is reduced.

 

[Gemini-Dragon]

4. Radiant Servant (Cleric/Sacred Fist):
i. Positive energy shield buff - increase temp hp to double healing skill, and x4 of healing skill is target is level 20 or above.
ii. Efficient Empowered Heal costs 1 Ap per rank instead of 2.
iii. Divine healing now scales with 50% positive spell power (only 50% since the duration is so long). Will now have a line of sight check, double spell range (ray range)
iv. Reactive Heal will either scale with spell power or be increased to 2000. (these kinda effects are tricky sometimes)

2, 3 and 4 are welcomed changes. I play a healer cleric often. Changes 3 and 4 will make those abilities actually useful. Reactive heal only healing for 250 felt like a waste of time. I can see my self using Divine Healing and Reactive Heal much more often!

However, the positive energy shield buff is pointless. Even with double or quadruple heal skill no one will use it. It is not strong enough or useful enough to warrant expending a turn undead charge. What if the Positive Energy Shield applied to all party members in line of sight? That might be useful! We have a bunch of uses for our Turn Undead charges so maybe consider removing the ability completely and replacing it. A passive like "Positive Energy Shield: When you heal an ally they receive +20 sacred bonus to healing amp for 12 seconds." That's a proper buff for a fifth core!

 

[Lotoc]

It is not much of a cost when you want to spend the points in the tree anyways. It mostly makes the ability less stupid at low epic levels.

The problem is that even with the extra 2 seconds of cooldown it is still by far the strongest melee epic strike and it will still completely define any melee character.
The cooldown needs to be atleast 12-15 seconds.

In my mind Quick Cutter should be doing less damage per use with a 6 second cooldown and stack to a higher point that's ultimately more rewarding on sustained fights but less effective in the short term.

Something along the likes of 1d6 per stack, each rank in quick cutter itself gives 1 max stack for 3 max.
Then Primal Force and Spirit of the Beast would each be +2 max stacks.

Also Drifting Lotus and Orchid Blossom should be brought down to 10 seconds and get the Light or Poison damage that Disciple of Philosophy add to Stunning Blow and Stunning Fist

 

[Lominal]

If we're changing with epic strike CD, crusade is a massive outlier, where the only reason you have to spend 3 ranks in it is to make the CD go
30s->20s. Just make it 15s (or even 12) in line with other epic strikes. You already have to stand in it to get he full duration buff, which doesn't happen in reapers (and most raids you have to move around as well).

 

[mikarddo]

My guess is the major balance changes for the spell casters will be later, since they will likely cover a mini-spell pass, as well as other potential changes.

J1NG

*If* thats the case then the Devs obviously could, should and would have mentioned it in the OP.
But - they didnt - which sadly makes wild guesses like yours worsen the situation rather than give hope.

I have yet to see *any* post from a Dev that acknowledges that casters are in a very bad shape both in high reaper quests and in raids. Before that happens I will unfortunately have to view your guess here as trying to blindside casters into false hope though I am very certain that was not your intention.

High reaper quests. The main issue is not that casters are too weak. The main issue is that martial dps kills packs in mere seconds so there is rarely time to cast more than 2 spells. This does not leave room for making caster play interesting nomatter what kind of buffs they might (or might not) receive. Thus the game needs to slow down a bit to become interesting again - and the simpler solution by far is to give martial damage the same r7+ multiplier that magic enjoys. Buffing casters - no matter how - cannot solve the issue alone.

Raids. Casters need alot better sustained damage AND better burst damage. More so though raids need to be designed with dangerous mobs and encounters that strongly favor casters where today the few mobs that do favor casters are very easily killed by martial dps too.

 

[Lotoc]

If we're changing with epic strike CD, crusade is a massive outlier, where the only reason you have to spend 3 ranks in it is to make the CD go
30s->20s. Just make it 15s (or even 12) in line with other epic strikes. You already have to stand in it to get he full duration buff, which doesn't happen in reapers (and most raids you have to move around as well).

My thoughts on crusade is it really shouldn't be the epic strike of a melee combat focused tree as it is right now
It's a full on healing/support ability with some mild fire/light damage.
But it scales entirely with spellpower in a tree that has none, if it was an after effect of a melee/ranged epic strike attack that'd also consecrate the ground beneath you it'd make sense but for now most divine crusader builds tend to skip it and go for Mighty Crusade in t5.
Which is actually another issue - t5 Divine Crusader basically invalidates it's own epic strike choice.