The Blonde
Catalogues Bugs
Edit: Nevermind, confirmed it doesn't work with either D.axe or B.sword, regardless of whether you have a shield equipped or nothing in your offhand.
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Lamannia Update 66 Preview 2 - Epic Destiny Refresh
- Thread starter Tonquin
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Edit: Nevermind, confirmed it doesn't work with either D.axe or B.sword, regardless of whether you have a shield equipped or nothing in your offhand.
Blightcaster + Dark Hunter + some scattered rogue for the best of both worlds at t5 sd.
WickedSloth
Well-known member
The bulk of these changes are incredibly disheartening. Since the devs seem deadset on some of these changes, here are a few tweaks that would go a long way to salvage some good will.
Add immunity stripping to DB. This would be splashable to help bring up casters without easy access to immunity stripping, and give people an actual reason to use DB going forward. They are giving it to fighters now, why not in an equally thematic ED.
Add a multiselector for the EA mantle to have a version that only heals like before. No damage procs. Make the heals not stack amongst multiple instances. This would fix the problem of melees using them enmasse, but still allow casual use and maintain diversity between mantles.
If that's still too much, maybe have a version that just self heals, or group heals. But perhaps when you cast a heal, it procs an aoe heal tic. That seems dynamic enough to me.
Add immunity stripping to DB. This would be splashable to help bring up casters without easy access to immunity stripping, and give people an actual reason to use DB going forward. They are giving it to fighters now, why not in an equally thematic ED.
Add a multiselector for the EA mantle to have a version that only heals like before. No damage procs. Make the heals not stack amongst multiple instances. This would fix the problem of melees using them enmasse, but still allow casual use and maintain diversity between mantles.
If that's still too much, maybe have a version that just self heals, or group heals. But perhaps when you cast a heal, it procs an aoe heal tic. That seems dynamic enough to me.
The Blonde
Catalogues Bugs
The Fatesinger mantle is named "Mantle of Sound and Fury", while the FotW mantle is named "Mantle of Fury" - any chance one of them could be renamed to something more distinct (preferably the FotW one)?
It's astonishingly bad. The tree will still be mostly a wasteland for rogues. If they aren't going to buff dark imbuement to be even remotely competitive in DPS, the multiselectors should at least get combined with meld. This is something that has been parroted over and over since the ED reworks some years ago. If you have to sacrifice (marginal) DPS in favor of the dodge bonus, it's value drops dramatically. Not to mention it puts other epic strikes on cooldown.
The tree is incredibly frontloaded. for 13 points you get like 6 sneak dice and 5% doublestrike/shot or 10% cooldown reduction, and immunity to energy drain, as well as 30% threat reduction. After that, it's simply not worth investing in which is just a shame. It's borderline mandatory for most DPS toons and yet greatly underperforms as a primary tree.
Nobody in their right mind will take the mantle when you can get +1(W) from DC, LD and GMOF. Even if the argument were that it were more defensive, the issue remains that displacement does not scale well at all in reaper. That is a fundamental issue that renders it useless for any players who play hard content. Rogues are in a weird place and thus you hardly see them in end game content unless they're horizon walkers. My main is a stick build, and it's the splashes that make it relevant. The best option for a quarterstaff is still Staff of Shadows, which came out in like 2017 and is Min Level 28.
The Blonde
Catalogues Bugs
These are great suggestions and I hope they implement them.
Coming back from a BG3 stint and I have been looking for a new build. I was excited to see all the balance-changes to the enhancement trees that happened since I left, but after digging and theory crafting I couldn't find an inspiring build. I then read through 30+ pages of Epic Destiny revamp, looking for inspiration.
I understand the need to shake up the game or we'll get bored. I should be thanking the devs as many of the changes proposed nicely fit into my playstyle, but while this release does have many game-changers, none spark joy or make me want to re-roll.
They real downside here is that enough players are unhappy with these changes and to tip the scales of balance we're leaning too heavy on nerf and not enough on buff.
I understand the need to shake up the game or we'll get bored. I should be thanking the devs as many of the changes proposed nicely fit into my playstyle, but while this release does have many game-changers, none spark joy or make me want to re-roll.
They real downside here is that enough players are unhappy with these changes and to tip the scales of balance we're leaning too heavy on nerf and not enough on buff.
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Crustbucket
Well-known member
If this is true then AA lost its one appeal ... and i just rolled a toon to run something similar to Silverhilt's Knighter focusing on big single target damage .... otherwise id never roll a ranger. Very very disappointed.
To add rangers dont need AOE ... they have it in the form of IPS ... and CC with para arrows. We have plenty thematic options. Casters and melees should have their place and that is their AOE. Rangers main job is picking high priority targets to drop fast. Dont make everything watered down and the same, options in this case that remove multiple builds do not open doors but close them. If only one change revert Hunts end back devs.
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Percentage bypass is an excellent idea. I'm not not sure I agree the stuff you've presented are realistic in being a viable option in the case of bypass being removed.
Orchid and Fan scale of spell power as well (unless they broke orchid with latest update)
High reaper casters usually go into VKF for deflect arrows already.
You are correct. Ruin and GRuin in a vacuum are technically not AoE.
Shout+GShout + instant kills are enough to have a dominate presence in R10 dungeons (link) even only using healing epic strikes before Fatesinger is buffed
Runearms appear to turn out to be really powerful source of whatever interchangeable type of damage a caster wants
Cold/DC sorc would shred skeletons with turn undead from EA + undeath to death (plus cleanup with ruin)
Orchid and Fan scale of spell power as well (unless they broke orchid with latest update)
High reaper casters usually go into VKF for deflect arrows already.
You are correct. Ruin and GRuin in a vacuum are technically not AoE.
Shout+GShout + instant kills are enough to have a dominate presence in R10 dungeons (link) even only using healing epic strikes before Fatesinger is buffed
Runearms appear to turn out to be really powerful source of whatever interchangeable type of damage a caster wants
Cold/DC sorc would shred skeletons with turn undead from EA + undeath to death (plus cleanup with ruin)
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DarthBUNBUN
Active member
I stand corrected on Orchid and Fan, how foolish of me to think that tool tips are a accurate source of information.
You keep mentioning instakills and DC casting which drives home the point that lower dc sorcs (as in not as well geared or not as many PLs) are going to be far more negatively affected by a change to immunity stripping.
I find it somewhat odd that air savant would have many points invested into fate when it doesn't do much for their main element.
There's even less synergy with water savant/EA.
The common point between these two is that it gives the sorc some group healing.
If you have a group to run through the content with monsters with immunities, then there isn't much of an issue to begin with. It's when the sorc is trying to solo that Immunities are going to be an issue.
Alch and druid don't have the same issue. Their enhancement lines cover multiple elements and they can just swap a few spells around if a quest is giving them an issue, even mid-quest at a shrine.
While we can continue to debate the effectiveness of alternatives to a sorc's main element, I think it's realistic to assume that people would more often choose the simpler option of just not playing sorc if they plan to do any significant amounts of soloing.
Sorcs don't have the same flexibility as other caster classes is the main point I wanted to make.
Bard has mostly sonic, but sonic resistance is rare and immunity is almost unheard of.
Wlk are mostly stuck with 2 elements of their choosing but 1 of those is force/evil/piercing.
As a warlock main, I'd like to support the ideas previously mentioned about elemental stripping being in EDs and mantles adjusted to support procs off blast! (And while you are at please please please fix the door barriers immune to blast - feywild and IOD I'm looking at you)
I've given the changes some thought and I'm going to switch away from warlock once I finish racial lives (11 to go!) as a result. While I understand the damage of Dragonbreath was deleting groups its not like casters are in a good place v. melee in high reaper. I agree with @Ying 's previously posted summary of the impact on warlock play and we were already struggling relative to other casters (imho).
I'm not sure what the right decision for SSG here is but my biggest issue that casters level quickly but melee outshines them at endgame in both raids and reaper. So as someone who is on the downhill slope of finishing lives and getting to 156 reaper points this puts me in a tough place but perhaps this trade-off decision is WAI?
I believe at least the previous spell damage reduction at r7-r10 should be removed with U66. With melee damage where it is I'd like to see the caster epic strikes across the board be better (either via base damage or better MCL scaling).
Alternatively create an adrenaline / (old) hunts end equivalent for spells....
I've given the changes some thought and I'm going to switch away from warlock once I finish racial lives (11 to go!) as a result. While I understand the damage of Dragonbreath was deleting groups its not like casters are in a good place v. melee in high reaper. I agree with @Ying 's previously posted summary of the impact on warlock play and we were already struggling relative to other casters (imho).
I'm not sure what the right decision for SSG here is but my biggest issue that casters level quickly but melee outshines them at endgame in both raids and reaper. So as someone who is on the downhill slope of finishing lives and getting to 156 reaper points this puts me in a tough place but perhaps this trade-off decision is WAI?
I believe at least the previous spell damage reduction at r7-r10 should be removed with U66. With melee damage where it is I'd like to see the caster epic strikes across the board be better (either via base damage or better MCL scaling).
Alternatively create an adrenaline / (old) hunts end equivalent for spells....
Rosze
Well-known member
It would also allow for easier buffing too. You could simply give a feat at say lvl 12 you can choose from a selection. In EDs or Legendary you could have where every stack gives % on non immune enemies and on immune enemies it might also give some buffs or only reach 100% at cap
Rosze
Well-known member
Same here love playing my warlock main but I play abyss so I’m useless half the time. I’ve been asking for something to help warlock for past 2 years but apparently they are “too strong” I mean they can cast with no SP so broken ? like SP really means much most the time for well built toons.
Clarise C.
Well-known member
This seems like an unappreciated point so far: this pass doesn't really seem to expand the space of viable options at all, nor significantly alter the path most builds will take except to chase people out of DI.
Is that really what this is supposed to accomplish?
(On a purely personal note, it still irritates me that negative PM/EK has two thematically appropriate EDs, and prefers to take neither of them. Silly!)
And I disagree with that point, because characters only have so much points/gear/etc to invest, so having immunity bypass to not need to spread around points in multiple dps paths frees up sorcs to become more flexible, and invest in other things like tanking, healing, or DC casting.
If you have 1 less spell slot per level, but due to bypass spend 1 less spell slot not getting alterntative dps spells, and also don't have to gear those alternative dps spells out, you can gear out other spells instead, you end up being more flexible.
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This is why as I believe you mentioned sorc is also a lot more common as a choice for DC casters.
DeathTitan
Well-known member
Tier 4 Majesty in Fatesinger destiny tree should make me immune to charisma damage, but Koprus in Isle of Dread quests still bring my charisma to zero making me helpless:
please can you fix this bug with the update 66 "Epic destiny refresh"?
By "epic destiny refresh" I also mean that you should fix epic destiny bugs that you ignored for years (there are many bugs in the current epic destiny system).
Thanks.
please can you fix this bug with the update 66 "Epic destiny refresh"?
By "epic destiny refresh" I also mean that you should fix epic destiny bugs that you ignored for years (there are many bugs in the current epic destiny system).
Thanks.
All bow characters just took a huge hit for END GAME damage.
What ranged characters were given was AOE damage that would make leveling easier, and somehow we are just supposed to accept this as the game being "balanced". I hate that adding a buff to one style of play, means you have to take away from somewhere else.
Building for leveling isn't the same as building for end game. AOE helps the leveler, nerfing HE hurts the end game player.
Being able to take T5 VKF, EK, or Falconry for % hp while still retaining bypass from core6 doesn't hurt either.
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