Lamannia Update 66 Preview 2 - Epic Destiny Refresh

lppmor

Well-known member
The shadow dancer strike has both a ranged and a melee option. From what I can tell so far, only the ranged one is becoming AOE. So if the standard for single target is 1d8+8, they should do that for the melee version and apply the AOE ranged standard to the ranged version.
We are talking about the spell ability, not the ranged/melee ones.
This one: Nightmare Lance (spell): Epic Strike is becoming AoE, thus it can't go 1d8+8.
 

Dergex

Well-known member
We are talking about the spell ability, not the ranged/melee ones.
This one: Nightmare Lance (spell): Epic Strike is becoming AoE, thus it can't go 1d8+8.

The Ranged Strike is also becoming a Ranged AoE attack based on the details in the initial post.

Several people have already pointed out, correctly that the melee one should get a 360 Cleave or at least a 180 Cleave template added onto it.
 

Lotoc

Well-known member
The Ranged Strike is also becoming a Ranged AoE attack based on the details in the initial post.

Several people have already pointed out, correctly that the melee one should get a 360 Cleave or at least a 180 Cleave template added onto it.
melee shadowstrike has been a cleave longer than it'd been anything else at this point?
 

Lopnel

Member
I took some of the most notable changes
  • Dragon Breath now has its intended max caster level of 20 to match the other Epic Strikes. All Epic Strikes should now have a Maximum Caster Level of 20.
  • Shadowstrike (Ranged)'s bonus to Critical Multiplier has been lowered from +3 to +2 (see the AOE Ranged Attacks thread)
  • Adrenaline's cooldown has been adjusted to 9 seconds
  • Hunts End is now a ranged attack that deals +250% damage and automatically crits.

From all these changes where is the balance? Aside from the players clearing out content quickly because of great building skills what do we get in exchange for power loss? A small boost to hit points is not a fair exchange.
 

Jack Jarvis Esquire

Well-known member
I took some of the most notable changes


From all these changes where is the balance? Aside from the players clearing out content quickly because of great building skills what do we get in exchange for power loss? A small boost to hit points is not a fair exchange.
I don't think that's the Devs interpretation of balance mate. 👍
 

saekee

long live ROGUE
Updates and a bug round-up after some more internal tinkering:
  • We have fixed a few targeting bugs with Energy Vortex in Draconic Incarnation that should hopefully make the ability much more reliable. Most notably, you should no longer need to have an enemy targeted during the initial cast of the spell. Note that I am saying "we" here but in reality this was all Torc. Thanks, Torc!
  • We have modified the following Destiny Mantles to work with Eldritch Blast under these circumstances:
    • EA
      • Angelic Form: Fire damage now triggers on Fiend eldritch blasts hitting an enemy
      • Wrathful Form: AoE flames now trigger off Fiend eldritch blasts hitting an enemy
      • Angelic/Wrathful Form: Cinders now trigger off of fiend eldritch blasts hitting an enemy
    • Magus
      • Flash of the Eclipse: Cold damage now triggers off Carceri eldritch blasts hitting an enemy
      • Flash of the Eclipse: Negative damage now triggers off of Abyss eldritch blasts hitting an enemy
      • Flash of the Eclipse: Shattermantle now triggers off of either carceri or abyss warlock blasts hitting an enemy
    • Primal
      • Thorn: Acid damage now triggers off of Great Old One eldritch blasts hitting an enemy
      • Heart: Fire damage now triggers off of Fiend eldritch blasts hitting an enemy
      • Storm: Electric damage now triggers off of celestial eldritch blasts hitting an enemy
      • Storm: Cold damage now triggers off of Carceri eldritch blasts hitting an enemy
      • Storm: Sonic damage now triggers off of Fey eldritch blasts hitting an enemy
  • We've fixed a particularly pernicious bug that prevented melee and ranged attacks with bonus damage from scaling that bonus damage with a doublestrike or doubleshot.
  • We've fixed another particularly pernicious bug where Sneak Attack Dice gained from Rogue or Dark Hunter levels were not counted as "Sneak Attack Dice" for the purposes of abilities that counted how many you had, which will mostly just result in a big boost to Shadowdancer's utility and DPS
  • We have un-broken Turn Undead after breaking it for this Lamannia preview
  • We have made the visual effects for Wrathful Form in Exalted Angel a lot less explodey and loud

Thanks so much for your wonderful feedback, and if you have any further thoughts, questions, or suggestions, let us know!
wow so sneak damage builds will get a nice boost! Is the internal cooldown gone too for SD’s bane damage?
 

Elves United

Well-known member
I took some of the most notable changes


From all these changes where is the balance? Aside from the players clearing out content quickly because of great building skills what do we get in exchange for power loss? A small boost to hit points is not a fair exchange.
I knew from the first that this was going to be a nerf when it appeared on the monthly calendar with no elaboration. I guessed the nerf would be Hunt's End and Adrenaline becoming special attacks so I was only half right. I do think they've made a fair point of dragonbreath being op but do think that is an overnerf. Exalted Angel's healing aura I think is a victim is a of a few people figuring out ways to really exploit it leaving more casual players in the lurch. The current Exalted destiny on lam is very limited. Shadowdancer came out the best in this although its buffs are all in its lower tiers and tier 4 + 5 remain bad. ( unholy feeding performed really poorly when I tested it ) Magus and Fatesinger got a few buffs. But you're right. It's minor buffs and major nerfs.
 

Jack Jarvis Esquire

Well-known member
I knew from the first that this was going to be a nerf when it appeared on the monthly calendar with no elaboration. I guessed the nerf would be Hunt's End and Adrenaline becoming special attacks so I was only half right. I do think they've made a fair point of dragonbreath being op but do think that is an overnerf. Exalted Angel's healing aura I think is a victim is a of a few people figuring out ways to really exploit it leaving more casual players in the lurch. The current Exalted destiny on lam is very limited. Shadowdancer came out the best in this although its buffs are all in its lower tiers and tier 4 + 5 remain bad. ( unholy feeding performed really poorly when I tested it ) Magus and Fatesinger got a few buffs. But you're right. It's minor buffs and major nerfs.
I agree. I was quite relieved Adrenaline got off comparatively lightly with "only" an extended cooldown, but the nerfs to casters and ranged are a bit OTT IMO. Not sure Hunts End needed anything adjusting beyond ensuring it was single target only, along with the addition of AOE elsewhere, and the DB nerf seems like an overshoot to me, but that's how they seem to roll when it comes to nerfs. 👍
 

The Narc

Well-known member
I am still holding my breath to see the final set of revisions that will be implemented, i am goad to see the EA aura go, it would have been different if that ability had a very short term duration and needed to be actively hit often and was focused on self healing only. But it was giving a specialty ability that is available in only a few build types to all build types, it was too much of an easy button for casual gimp style builds/players.
 

Oliphant

Well-known member
EA being for more casual weaker players is why I think its fine as it was. We want back up mechanics that can give anyone at any power level a chance and a job. People seeking more active playstyles or just better toons will go for stuff that makes them more effective. I don't see EA mantle ubiquitously, except maybe as an option on many builds because it only costs 1 EDP so might as well grab the toggle. Having something like that in the back pocket to get through certain situations occurs to me as DnD.
 

Reifee - Orien

Well-known member
I agree. I was quite relieved Adrenaline got off comparatively lightly with "only" an extended cooldown, but the nerfs to casters and ranged are a bit OTT IMO. Not sure Hunts End needed anything adjusting beyond ensuring it was single target only, along with the addition of AOE elsewhere, and the DB nerf seems like an overshoot to me, but that's how they seem to roll when it comes to nerfs. 👍

I think the approach with Adrenaline was correctly done, I don't totally agree that it was needed.

However, adjusting something down slightly (12-15%) to get it inline with what you want, understanding you can adjust it further in the future rather then totally gutting things like they did with DB (70% Nerf) and completely removing EA Healing aura.

If the issue was the aura was causing a bug for solo'rs remove the self heal, or decrease it to a small regen (30-50 hp) and normal for the group.

If it was an issue with raids, decrease its Strength in raids. If it was something to do with The total number of people healed, decrease the amount of healing. There was LOTs of better ideas then the one implimented.

Furthermore, an EXPANSION on the current Destiny points would be great. A single or two per tier would be a good refresh, it would give us more to mix and match, and could change many builds to have a bit more flavor.


Draconic Incarnation
Core 5
Draconic Heritage III
-5% spell point cost on all spells. +25 Spell Power of your Draconic Bloodline element and +25 Universal Spell Power

Tier One​

+5/+10/+15 To your chosen element resists.

Tier Two​

Adds Sonic & Force to Choices of DB
Or
+1 Int, Cha, Wisdom (2 ranks)

Tier Three​

DB Goes from 1d6 +7 to 2D6+10

Tier Four​

3 Ranks of +1 Dice and Level of Spells.

Tier Five​

Add a Second element to your Dragon breath, Also applies all your primary elements to a secondary element.
(Example
Coalescence: You bypass the first 5/10/15 points of Damage Reduction with your spells. Rank 3: +5 Spell Power of your Draconic Bloodline element and +5 Universal Spell Power
would now apply to both Fire and Say Sonic (if you picked them)
 

seph1roth5

Well-known member
We are talking about the spell ability, not the ranged/melee ones.
This one: Nightmare Lance (spell): Epic Strike is becoming AoE, thus it can't go 1d8+8.
It's going to bad/barely aoe. A line is hard enough to line up when using a ranged attack, you think you're going to get much aoe out of something melee w/ enemies constantly shuffling around?
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
......yes, but that's an *added* damage nerf, not a *damage* nerf. Your damage is not reduced by 100% if the added damage is reduced by 100%. Both of those strikes are factually getting buffed if you try out an actual DPS rotation—the sonic damage is huge, and the 100% uptime paranoia is quite big.
No. I don't have fatesinger in my wizard, and the epic strikes of the other EDs represent a loss of dps, sorry. Tested in Lammania,
 

Lazuli

Well-known member
I'm just tired of these arbitrary talking points centered around "epic" vs "heroic". People don't like that DB is getting double nerfed, and I get that. However, getting your most powerful caster abilities at lvl 15+ isn't just the new DB, it's epic SLAs and caster's in general. The sentiment that "epic" abilities must be superior to "heroic" ones isn't the reality of the game and it's one I would disagree with moving forward.
It is not arbitrary. It's how it works in D&D. Epic abilities are epic, that is, more powerful than heroic abilities. Just because the devs have forgotten it doesn't mean we don't know it.

That distinction is as arbitrary as using a d20 for rolls.

If epic EDs are going to be weaker than heroic enhancements, why make a distinction between epic and heroic levels. The same thing happens with legendary levels. I don't feel they are legendary at all; they are the same as epics. The devs have forgotten too many things, sadly.

And the most important thing that they have forgotten is that the game has to be fun. That's why they have so many complaints now. There are a lot of people who thinks they are driving the game in unfun directions between its homogenization, its panic of having different things and its mountain of grind.
 
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Raedier

Well-known member
Shadowstrike needs to be at least 1d8+8 if not higher, primal strikes are still bad, EA strikes and sunbolt suck and macro spells are hardly worth looking at.

I’m not saying everything needs to compete with meteor swarm or iceberg to be effective, just make it at least 80% as strong.
Not the insignificant and disappointing mess we have now.

I know I will get a lot of hate for this but at least make all of the strikes balanced.
Either make everything as strong as adrenaline or nerf adrenaline even more and buff the other strikes a little bit, to meet in the middle.

Also, we need more interesting effects, mrr/prr debuffing, slows, more aoe, dot effects, increase saves when using a strike, increase rundspeed after using a strike, increased DC’s after using X strike, I could go on and on.
Macro strikes seem to go the right way with this but they still feel underwhelming.
Give more strikes the Shadowstrike treatment and turn them into a chain lightning or lightning bolt.

Thunder hammer is a no save spell which is cool and useful for levelling but when cranking up the skulls the damage is so low it is just not even worth using at all.

Epic strikes and spells could be the perfect medium to get accces to immunity stripping for more classes, not just casters, AA could use this as well!

Adding 1d6+3 to fey lights does not make it good. At least make it 1d6+6 and buff the mantle to be worth using for casters.
 
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karthunk

Dooooooom
Ranged AOE is QoL tool for Heroic quests...
Single Target DPS is a must have for Raids and high reapers
We must be playing different games because there are tons of massive packs of NPCs all throughout Elite Reaper, low and high, and in most of the raids.

If we are talking about single target boss DPS or red named reapers it literally doesn't matter. There are so many stacking debuffs that are applied by a prepared group of players that everything, including raid bosses on reaper, melt like butter.
 

Raedier

Well-known member
We must be playing different games because there are tons of massive packs of NPCs all throughout Elite Reaper, low and high, and in most of the raids.

If we are talking about single target boss DPS or red named reapers it literally doesn't matter. There are so many stacking debuffs that are applied by a prepared group of players that everything, including raid bosses on reaper, melt like butter.
They melt like butter because razorclaw exists.
 

DBZ

Well-known member
What with there 2 whole sonic spells on a wizard lol

Wizards aren't bards and AM is still garbage
 
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