Lamannia Update 66 Preview 2 - Epic Destiny Refresh

[nobodynobody1426]

Yay, excellent!

This has been fixed internally, and will be in an upcoming patch. Thank you!

Now that Chain Healing works, there is less reason for everyone to pick Holy Fireball. Can we have it unnerfed back to T5 level usefulness or have it lowered to T3/4 like the other epic tree's additional abilities.

 

[Soulcial]

"Lunar imbuement only apply the 5 vulnerability stacks on the first cast. While the stacks slowly diminish a recast only replenishes/adds 1 vulnerable stack. So you're basically slowly deteriorating back to 0 stacks before you can go up to 5 again."

Via a guildie testing on Lamannia

 

[Soulcial]

Will the new iteration of Hunts end work well with repeaters like apply damage increase to all shots from one click? I think repeaters at level cap still need a bit more power to sit atleast close to where bow users and inquisitives can be.

This is why I am asking for a change to dark imbuement. Volume based attacks do not benefit from epic strikes nearly as much as big dmg builds do. It would be nice if there was some option. Right now, the volume based attackers are still using adrenaline/hunts end. Almost all of the good ones. I think there should be a distinction between burst builds (which can 1 shot enemies but do lower damage vs bosses in an undefined amount of time) VS volume based attacks (which do more single target dps over an undefined amount of time) which do not 1 shot enemies. Consecration + Crusade is an option but only realistically for those with favored weapons and is more of a group buff than representation of these 2 distinct play styles.

 

[Lotoc]

This is why I am asking for a change to dark imbuement. Volume based attacks do not benefit from epic strikes nearly as much as big dmg builds do. It would be nice if there was some option. Right now, the volume based attackers are still using adrenaline/hunts end. Almost all of the good ones. I think there should be a distinction between burst builds (which can 1 shot enemies but do lower damage vs bosses in an undefined amount of time) VS volume based attacks (which do more single target dps over an undefined amount of time) which do not 1 shot enemies. Consecration + Crusade is an option but only realistically for those with favored weapons and is more of a group buff than representation of these 2 distinct play styles.

Fatesinger's strike is pretty much the best option for repeater dps but that's getting nerfed due to Arrow of Discord being made a single shot aoe.

 

[Hobgoblin]

pardon me, but what does this mean? you gain +3 to each Turn Undead stat per Religious Lore feat.

 

[Baahb3]

Exalted Angel

• Holy Presence is now: "While in your Exalted Angel Destiny Mantle, you gain 15% damage absorption to all Elemental (Fire, Cold, Electric, Acid, Poison, Sonic) and Alignment (Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic) damage."

I am only going to ask this once before you get Andy Dufresne'd and I mean many times over. Why was this changed? What is the reasoning why the healing aura was removed? We deserve a reason for this **** decision.

 

[RobShow]

Grand Summoner moves to multiselect with Tier 1 Imperceptible Casting

I dont like this. You need less threat as a summoner.

The worst build in the entire game getting multiple nerfs.
That's because they love diversity. LoL

 

[NightHiker]

Tonquin,

I was very glad to see you listened to feedback from people who actually use summons and hirelings and decided to revert the change to Grand Summoner. I was even considering getting back to the game with the new update.

But now I see that, ironically, you actually made it mutually exclusive with the only other ability on the tree that was specifically useful to the same type of build. What currently makes such builds viable are BOTH Grand Summoner for the buff to hires, PLUS Imperceptible Casting for the reduced threat (often coupled with the discipline feat). Making Grand Summoner a multiselect together with Imperceptible Casting effectivelly keeps it as unaccessible as having it tied to the mantle (I can't really see anyone picking the first in lieu of the second).

I'm gonna consider this an oversight, since replacing a change with another change that would still have pretty much the same result seems both counterintuitive and counterproductive.

Please, again, consider a solution that does not make Grand Summoner and Imperceptible Casting mutually exclusive, if at all possible, or the end result will continue to be the eradication of such builds from DDO. As unpopular as hirelings/summons builds may currently be, I still don't see reason to purposefully eliminate the only way to make them nearly viable in the endgame.

Cheers,
NH

I understand the previous space for Grand Summoner has been taken by Moon-touched, which was changed and moved to T1 (unless it just shares the same name with the current T2 one). If there's no alternative, I'd rather have GS share a multiselect with Impregnable Mind or Moon-Touched than with IC. They are useful, but at least don't make or break the build like IC.

Cheers,
NH

 

[Baahb3]

• Ascendance is now: Epic Moment. For the next 20 seconds, your single-target Cure Wounds spells you cast on any target now instead apply to all allies. These spells cannot crit. For the duration of this ability, Raise Dead and Resurrection also raise your target to full HP like True Resurrection does. Finally, your Turn Undead can now turn any type of creature regardless of genus, can destroy things it turns, and you gain +3 to each Turn Undead stat per Religious Lore feat.

I did not take this before and this change makes even less of an argument to take.

Have you asked yourselves, when was the last time a healer cast a single target 'Cure' spell? Unless Heal works with this? This is worthless. I don't even know if I have a single target Cure spell on my FvS. If I do, it is not on my hot bars. Turning, really, you are still trying to push that aspect of the game when undead in Epic/Legendary levels have 40 or 50+ HD?

Please tell me the person who came up with this is not in charge of anything meaningful.

 

[PraetorPlato]

I did not take this before and this change makes even less of an argument to take.

Have you asked yourselves, when was the last time a healer cast a single target 'Cure' spell? Unless Heal works with this? This is worthless. I don't even know if I have a single target Cure spell on my FvS. If I do, it is not on my hot bars. Turning, really, you are still trying to push that aspect of the game when undead in Epic/Legendary levels have 40 or 50+ HD?

Please tell me the person who came up with this is not in charge of anything meaningful.

This turn ability is immediately, with no other investment, enough to kill *any non-death warded trash in the game* on a turn on a pure cleric. On a well specced turn cleric, it's a 5 target no save instant kill every time you turn when you hit your epic moment.

 

[Elminster]

 

[Shinku]

please fix fast and furious attack in the fury of the wild epic destiny

 

[Melkizadek]

Shiradi Champion
For this tree, a lot's going on. You are probably going to have to check this one out in the game as the abilities have been shuffled considerably.

• Core abilities now grant +15 HP, +25 SP
• Feywild Attunement's Base Attack Bonus now works regardless of weapon type.
• Fey Lights now deals 1d6+3 Force damage per caster level, scaling with Force Spell Power. Selecting an element with your mantle's Stay ability will change this damage to match that type.
• Core 4 is now: "You gain +1 Saves vs Spells, with an additional +1 for every Favored Enemy feat you've acquired. +1 Maximum Manyshot charge."
• Pin is now: "AOE Ranged Attack: Make a Ranged Attack that shatters on impact, hitting all enemies in a small area around where it lands. If a moving enemy is affected, they are slowed for 12 seconds. 15 second cooldown."
• Otto's Whistler's Immobilize and Dance effects when upgrading Pin have been reduced to a 6 second duration (though still with no saving throw) as Pin's ability to lock down groups is now significantly stronger.
• Fey Form mantle upgrade is now Cruelty of the Hunt: You deal +10% damage against the helpless.
• Track now works on harmful spellcasts and reduces saves by 1/stack.
• New Enemy of my Own multiselector: Fey Form: You gain Dr10/Cold Iron, +5 Force and Universal Spell Power, and your main hand weapon becomes an Implement
• New Whirling Wrists multiselector: Flickering Fingers: +1/2/3 Imbue Dice
• New Phase Double multiselector: Fey Presence: +2/4/6% incorporeality
• Hunts End is now a ranged attack that deals +250% damage and automatically crits.
• Greater Beguiling Charm has been cut, and Beguiling Charm now has its upgrade by default
• Hunt's End and Pin have switched places, with Pin becomes the new epic strike. Pin gets upgraded now in Hunt's End's place, and Hunts End is now multiselected with the Beguiling Charm ability and is no longer an Epic Strike.
• Beguiling Charm and the space where Greater Beguiling Charm was move up a tier, to Tier 3 and 4, and Enemy Of My Own goes down to Tier 2
• New Tier 4 where Greater Beguile would have been: Countenance of Queens: -15% threat from all sources
• The second Strike upgrade for Pin is "Overwhelming Force: Pin now applies 10 stacks of Track to enemies struck." The first strike upgrade in tier 3 is Otto's Whistler, which moved in from its previous location in tier 4.
• Pin is now an AOE Ranged Attack
• Otto's Whistler's Immobilize and Dance effects when upgrading Pin have been reduced to a 6 second duration (though still with no saving throw) as Pin's ability to lock down groups is now significantly stronger.

​

Wow... I have so many thoughts about this that I don't know how to explain what is going on in my head. I am going to try to keep this constructive but I want to be honest as well. So here it goes!

PLEASE DO NOT MAKE THE PROPOSED CHANGES TO HUNTS END

There are plenty of people that will be able to explain the severity of this nerf in mathematical terms much better than I ever could, so I am going to try to explain this from a thematic approach.

I almost solely play ranged builds at this point. HE on live is what makes the builds fun for me. Having the prepped shot of HE just makes sense. You take your time, line up a shot, and then bullseye. If I miss, I have to wait line up another shot and try again. Having a single attack that cant be paired with another attack is boring. This shifts the needle from a skill based tree to another boring auto-attack playstyle.

PLEASE share your reasoning for making these changes so that we know how to come up with a better solution. If it has to do with the pairing of the new aoe attacks and HE being too powerful I would just rather can the whole idea of aoe ranged attacks.

 

[Nickodeamous]

So, just wondering, but Quick Cutter seems to be a faster WWA animation than both drifting lotus and WWA itself. I thought these were standardized?

 

[Elves United]

Note: this entire tree's adjusted state is not in this preview! These changes are entirely about the tree's Epic Strikes.

Still no Primal Avatar update? Aw Come on! I was waiting for that one! How many previews is this epic destiny update going to have?

Delayed Judgement DC scaling is now enchantment

With not replacing the Flaming Sphere SLA, and the joke was getting old. I guess you needed a new joke. Not that people were using this ability anyway. Not with its too slow cast time, single target, no metamagics that anyone ever took it. But to switch it to a DC type that characters who go Tier 4 in Exalted Angel are even less likely to have is hilarious.

New Multiselector with Angelic Form: Wrathful Form: "Casting a Fire, Light, Alignment, or Positive Spell causes you to be surrounded by fire and light for 5 seconds, damaging all enemies nearby every 2.5 seconds for 1d6 Fire and 1d6 Light damage per caster level.

TESTED: So replacing the blade barrier with a burning aura that covers the ground and travels with you. In a game where enemies often cast patterns on the ground which warns players that they have to move or take a lot of damage. Are you sure you want something that graphically intensive?

New Whirling Wrists multiselector: Flickering Fingers: +1/2/3 Imbue Dice

You just don't like imbue using throwers? why not just the imbue to it in addition to the throwing speed. If a character doesn't use thrown weapons the thrown speed bonus is meaningless to them anyway and they'll just be taking it for the imbue.

The second Strike upgrade for Pin is "Overwhelming Force: Pin now applies 10 stacks of Track to enemies struck." The first strike upgrade in tier 3 is Otto's Whistler, which moved in from its previous location in tier 4.

TESTED: Pin applies 2 points of tracking not 10. Overwhleming Force is vastly overpriced for what it is currently doing.

New Enemy of my Own multiselector: Fey Form: You gain Dr10/Cold Iron, +5 Force and Universal Spell Power, and your main hand weapon becomes an Implement

Shame since my archer normally took both.

Hunts End is now a ranged attack that deals +250% damage and automatically crits.

Alas, Hunt's End Sniper shot. I shall miss thee.

"Hunt's End and Pin have switched places, with Pin becomes the new epic strike. Pin gets upgraded now in Hunt's End's place, and Hunts End is now multiselected with the Beguiling Charm ability and is no longer an Epic Strike.

Interesting that you've set up that the shadowdancer epic strike in many ways to be far superior than the Shiradi epic strike.
( Cooldown 15 seconds +20% damage +pin/dance abilties, AOE ) vs ( Cooldown: 8 seconds, +25% damage, +3 crit range, +2 crit threat, AOE )

Fey Lights now deals 1d6+3 Force damage per caster level, scaling with Force Spell Power. Selecting an element with your mantle's Stay ability will change this damage to match that type

At its current range and short duration, I do not see this extra damage mattering to many. If a mob is charging you, you either have to wait until they are in melee range and time it just right or content yourself with only stunning the one's in front. I remember my caster trying to use this when the Shiradi mantle was far more caster friendly. Had to stop as I kept getting myself killed trying to use it.

New t5 to replace Greater Shadowform: Unholy Feeding: On kill, you gain 6 temp HP per sneak attack dice. You also gain +10 Force and Universal Spell Power and are immune to Pressure Plates and Bear Traps.

TESTED: Still can not get to work.

 

[HastyPudding]

Warlock's utterdark blast (evil damage) no longer procs either of exalted angel's mantles for the light damage.

 

[Pesh]

i initially thought the change to hunts end would be nice but then i realised how gimped the damage will be now im sad

should be +400% at least

 

[Ahpuch]

Dark Imbuement still says "You deal 1d6 per Sneak Attack Dice in Untyped Damage on hit". It is hard to parse the combat log but it seems that it is not per hit but that there is still a limit on how often it takes effect. If you are not going to remove the limit at least make it clear from the description on how often it can take effect.

 

[rabidfox]

Dark Imbuement still says "You deal 1d6 per Sneak Attack Dice in Untyped Damage on hit". It is hard to parse the combat log but it seems that it is not per hit but that there is still a limit on how often it takes effect. If you are not going to remove the limit at least make it clear from the description on how often it can take effect.

It's an internal cooldown of a second or so. On repeater, 1 bolt out of 4 will get that damage. We've been asking them to remove/reduce it for ages as it makes it meh for fast attacking builds.

 

[zandoe]

I spent the last three weeks on Argo playing my uberpletionist Warlock with 145 reaper points without Dragon Breath to get a feel for the U66 changes. I opted for a more “controlling” version by shifting from T5 Draconic with Greater Ruin to T5 Magus with Burst of Glacial Wrath and Intensify, and utilizing LGS Salt in the offhand. Changing to Magus also prompted shifting my pact from GOO (acid) to Carceri (cold) for obvious reasons. I also shifted my class enhancements to ditch Feydark Illusionist, instead picking up helpless damage in Falconry and Crush Weakness to make up for the damage loss with ditching Ruin and the synergy with BoGW. Overall it’s been a miserable experience due to the mobs with cold immunity in the game (something I rarely encountered with acid).


For example, I was solo farming Legendary R1 Make Believe items for an alt, and the end fight was a complete slog on a character with the absolute best gear in the game you can possibly have because hags are cold immune. Ice Comet and Moon Lance were absolute losers in that situation. Talk about a feels bad situation. And with ditching Ruin, all I had left was the force damage from my Eldritch Blast, the negative aura pulse from the Magus mantle and the pathetic damage from Consume. It was so frustrating that I opted to farm on a melee instead. Don’t get me started on the number of skeletons in the game, which are also cold immune. While heroic leveling, I just grit my teeth and suffered through the cold immune mobs (Delera’s absolutely sucked to get through).


In R10 groups, I was basically relegated to locking down packs of mobs with BoGW, Mass Hold and Evard’s and hitting Time Stop for the endboss for melee to obliterate. It lacked the thrill of blowing up a pack of mobs with a crit Dragon Breath like I used to do.


Without cold immunity bypass, going T5 Magus + Carceri is a huge disappointment. I love the Warlock play style, but Carceri is simply too frustrating without a way to strip cold immunity. But with Dragon Breath damage getting double nerfed between the MCL30->20 and 50% reduction in damage scaling, justifying T5 Draconic Incarnation for Greater Ruin is no longer compelling. Warlock was already disadvantaged from a gearing perspective due to the need to gear for both an element and force spellpower, crit chance and crit damage. And I was lucky enough to win the lottery with a GOMF double set bonus of Shaman’s Fury and Biting Sands to maximize both. If I continue as a nuker in U66, which is highly unlikely, it won’t be as a Warlock.


The nuker meta already favored cold due to the extra crit chance and spellpower from Frozen Wanderer. Sorcs, Druids and Alchemists (all of which autostrip elemental immunity) will continue to use cold and barring disruptive changes in Primal Avatar that haven't been revealed the ED nuker meta firmly shifts to T5 Magus. Every group and raid benefits from Time Stop (assuming it doesn’t “miss” which it is prone to do), and with the overall meta favoring melee it’s quite effective for optimal team performance. Nukers will make up some of the personal damage lost from the DB nerf by pivoting to more helpless damage by incorporating Falconry, Crush Weakness and the Cruel Cut set bonus. Gnome/Deep Gnome Alchemists will come out on top of the nuker meta, having racial access to Greater Color Spray on top of BoGW and their helpless-inducing admixtures. That assumes lag doesn’t keep their reactions from spiking, which has been a frustrating problem to endure. Sorcs will favor instakilling due to their cooldown reduction and acting as a temporary quasi-tank, utilizing T5 Falconry.

Ice warlock in ES is fun flavor build in shiradi on low content. Obv auras and dots to proc shiradi so everything is blinded, paralyzer, frozen. Problem is they nerfed the dps on it way too much back in the day and looks like they will not address that issue even now so shiradi will remain just a flavor alt tree on some silly caster builds