Ever see a naturally awkwardly clumsy elf ?
Lamannia Update 68 Preview 2 - Eladrin
- Thread starter Cordovan
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Ahpuch
Well-known member
It has charges because it is also an "action boost" (though technically not an action boost). You could think of it as Action boost with leap bonus and one could complain that it should be like every other action boost and not include the leap. IOW, to use your idea they would have to get rid of the boost benefit of the Fey Step as that is the real power here of fey step.
seph1roth5
Well-known member
Some good updates, but I think fire shield is still lacking. The problem with it, and long strider, is that they're very easily scrolled. Long strider is extremely rarely useful, and fire shield, while very useful, is also super obvious when it's off.
Nightshield is easily cast from gear/scrolls/whatever as well, but it's harder to tell when it's dispelled, and much more important. You either have immunity to MM or not. Whereas with fire shield you probably have SOME fire absorption already.
What about a tiefling-style scorch that strips fire immunity? Or is that too unique to tiefling? Crown of summer? Does it have to be a clicky? Could just be a stacking fire absorption.
Diversion isnt limited to a max of 5 times per rest though. You could technically Diversion every fight if you were super keen to do so (waited the CD after every fight)
Fisto Mk I
Well-known member
Wait 3 min before each fight? I can imagine group reaction for such demand... ?
Practically it's limited to boss fight, same as Fay Step, so in the end it is 50 sec +9SA dice for 5 AP (free if you have racial PL) vs. 20 sec +5SA dice for 31AP and 18 lvl Monk. It's do Eladrin race practically mandatory for any build used SA.
OP and clearly broken as hell, exactly as say before. 8)
Please consider changing this to a Fire Shield Hot toggle similar to the Level 6 Amaunator religious feat?
I mostly solo /shrug
Solarpower
Well-known member
Sorry, but what exactly should I drink to start seeing elves ? ?
Urine of Unicorns that grazed in strawberry fields
Mary
Well-known member
Someone may have already suggested this but I think there should be some consideration too if the eladrin is made a traditional sorc, fire, air, etc - there should be synergies with their seasons, so a fire sorc in summer etc. Same for druids who align their seasons with their eladrin season, should synergistically boost.
VoodooMike
Active member
Considering the Dark Hunter can feasibly give itself +20 SA dice for 10 seconds every minute, with no limit per rest, a +9 SA dice with per-rest limitations doesn't seem particularly extreme. DDO certainly didn't become Dark Hunters Online.
With the exception of Displacement, these are still all very weak effects for a race's T4 line. Night Shield is not worthwhile at T4.. its a level 1 spell that you can get from a myriad of sources if you want the save bonus, and magic missile immunity without a timer is available from many classes and from feydark illusionist as a T2. Vigor spells in general are not super useful (they could all use a QOL pass).. Fire Shield is mostly useful for short-term cold absorb.
Compare this to things like Tiefling's Scorch (T3) and its immunity stripping at T4.. or Shifter's Howl of Terror and True Hunter... or even Tabaxi's ability to get Evasion.. those are some pretty serious T4 enhancements.
Make the T4 a multiselector with one of the options being immunity stripping for that season's element while attuned to that season. I'd also consider better SLAs across the board, especially in conjunction with the multiselector idea, so that it's a tough choice as to which of the options to choose and T4 is something builds are eager for.
Fisto Mk I
Well-known member
Let's check... 12 lvl DH, 23 AP for 12 SA dice, or full 20 DH for your declared 20, vs. 5 AP (usual free for anyone who have racial PL) for 9 SA dice, available for any class/archetype... seems legit, lol.
Give one OP broken tree as a justification that the other OP broken tee is slightly less broken and OP... very weak proof...
Ughm... what servers you play? I'm play in Orien and Argo, and literally any bowmen in party/raid is DH, almost all time pure DH. I don't even know why this would be so? ?
Usually i'm lazy to TR and prefer to play a capped toon, but after the next TR, my next character will definitely be 2PAL/6Monk/12DH shuri-tosser... and exactly because this SA dice boost. And guess what race he'll be after U68? 8)
Pretty Good Old One
Member
Just adding to the ideas:
For the 10s Fey Step Ability bonus:
Spring: keep the dodge, add half temporary max dodge.
Summer: +1 Crit Multiplier, +1/15 levels (or maybe just crit range)
Autumn: keep the sneak attack as is
Winter: +3 tactics, assassinate, and perform +1/5 levels
For the spells:
Spring: Vigor
Summer: Flame Blade
Autumn: Spike Growth
Winter: Thorn Blade
For the 10s Fey Step Ability bonus:
Spring: keep the dodge, add half temporary max dodge.
Summer: +1 Crit Multiplier, +1/15 levels (or maybe just crit range)
Autumn: keep the sneak attack as is
Winter: +3 tactics, assassinate, and perform +1/5 levels
For the spells:
Spring: Vigor
Summer: Flame Blade
Autumn: Spike Growth
Winter: Thorn Blade
VoodooMike
Active member
There seem to be some folks who exist outside of time, or at least talk like they do. The Eladrin's bonus SA dice are 10 seconds after a fey step, which by default is 2x per rest (upgradable to 5x for 3 more AP), and are level limited - that 9 SA isn't until close to cap. The DH's bonus SA do require 12 levels of DH, but are then 1 per Wilderness Lore, and are 10 seconds once per minute any number of times. At level 12 the Eladrin bonus is 5 SA dice to the DH's 12, with a limit on their usage.
The bonus SA dice from Eladrin aren't going to break the game with any class, and while any new race will be the flavour of the week for a while (especially while everyone works to get racial completionist back) I'm far from convinced that it will take over the game because of limited use bonus SA dice.
Give one OP broken tree as a justification that the other OP broken tee is slightly less broken and OP... very weak proof...
Actually, the point was that DH didn't break the game and hasn't proven to be overpowered in spite of offering far more bonus SA dice. It suggests that the hysterical doomsaying is unnecessary. Shouting that something is broken and OP doesn't make it fact, and the onus is on you to prove it is not on me to prove its not.
Its a good bonus, no doubt, but saying "bowmen are almost always pure DH" is weaker than weak proof of the bonus SA dice being "broken and OP". If it was, you'd be saying "groups are predominantly pure DH bowmen" instead. Is that what you're seeing?
Sounds good... so what are you complaining about, again?
Shear-buckler
Well-known member
If the SA dice is not OP then the other bonuses must be trash as they are far weaker.
Also, it's not just about "breaking the game". Who really want the defining feature of the race to be a short term SA boost? From reading the thread it seems people would much rather the T4 spells be strong enough to define the race and not nigh useless to make room for a really strong SA boost.
I'm not disagreeing with you on the others are weaker; but let's be real. DDO has never managed to balance multiple choice flawlessly.
I'm looking at you my beloved acid spells.
If the SLAs were made worthwhile then at least the other options might get some play. Vigor could easily be bumped to greater vigor (Wood Elf and Tabaxi have other features outside of just a vigor SLA, so I think the bump for eladrin is both thematic but also value). Making the Fire Shield spell a toggle feat like Amaunator solves the issue there. Personally I think passive displacement isn't that big since we just got it in DL but if it needs to stay an SLA for parity, sure.
VoodooMike
Active member
A race doesn't have to be powerful to be useful, but yeah a lot of Eladrin is pretty weak compared to the last few races they've released (imho, of course). I think the best way to look at DDO races is through the lens of a character without dozens of racial past lives, and to ask yourself is there enough benefit to working your way up the tree if it costs you actual AP rather than that pile of free racial AP that such characters would get.
I don't think those two things are mutually exclusive. Regardless of what they do or don't do with the bonuses from Fey Step, the T4 spells really should be something better. The iconic Eladrin setup is a good example - all those T4 spells are AOE attacks that strip immunity. I'm betting people would spent actual AP to snag one of those, especially if their build lacked immunity stripping and happened to be single-element focused.
Overall I think they're just trying to do too much with the basic Eladrin - trying to make it appealing to every possible build in separate ways, but with it ending up feeling like a hodge-podge of oddly-chosen features. The iconic version is much better focused.
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