Lamannia Update 68 Preview 2 - Wild Mage Archetype

[Shao Kahn]

The difference comes from the design direction. You are right as you're inclined to allow various possibilities to people, while I am also inclined to that but not permissive. Player choice, yes, and that only comes when the game allows. You don't take an ability that you don't like but as long as the game allows it. I like the player's freedom of choice as well, but I am not in favour of merging everything into a single solution, I've been saying. This is why I don't like FvS using both of WIS/CHA in spellcasting ability and SP pool (but It's understandable since they were designed to be greedy. Sin of SSG.) But they are not that excessive.

"Must have taken at least 1 level in another spell casting class." might look fine, but it's also weird to me as you can be INT/WIS based spellcaster with only CHA classes, but also I don't like that restriction exists. I feel this is closer to restricting the player's choice.

• [Mine] "You can take it if you like it, but it's only effective when your main stat is CHA."
• [Yours] "You can take it only when you do multiclass with other classes."

It's tricky, isn't it? I wouldn't say every person would feel the same, but for me, I feel my suggestion doesn't have restriction than your suggestion even if mine doesn't open more possibilities than yours. "There is no option existing." over "There is an option but you should do something."


Now, let's talk about "other class feature". Why shouldn't this be outside of WM exclusive? Why can't wizard have this too? Archmage tree having the identical enhancement but as INT alt. Cleric domain "Magic" to alter WIS alt.
If you have read my posts, I am more interested to make multiclassing caster classes more common by allowing caster levels shared without this enhancement, but DC check is another issue.


Note that I also don't like modern designs that every ED spells being INT/WIS/CHA the same, but ED is difficult to design and I can understand it. There should have been something altering spellcasting ability in the game like my suggestion.

So you don't like FvS using WIS or CHA for spellcasting but supposedly understand why it was implemented. Yeah ok. It was implemented for convenience. The same way that Mixed Magics was introduced in WM in the first place.

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?threads/u68-preview-1-wild-mage-sorcerer-archetype.11688/

Design Goals

• Create an archetype that fits with the Wild Magic theme of Myth Drannor
• Strong multiclass support with Warlock, Bard, FvS, Chaos Domain Cleric, and sub-support for Alc and Art

"Mixed Magics: Your Caster Level with spells is now equal to your Character Level instead of individual class levels (max 20). This does not change the caster level of Rune Arms, Wands, Scrolls, or other Items."

By having the spellcasting solely CHA you are pigeonholing builds into focusing on CHA compared to whatever the highest spellcasting stat players choose (INT/WIS/CHA). You still failed to answer why my method is more restricting than yours. I've also never argued why it shouldn't be outside of WM however the fact that it is in WM and that is the vision the devs have just like making FvS spellcasting stat WIS or CHA.

 

[Shao Kahn]

From WM preview 1, to make my suggestion more convincing for SSG.

They said they want to support multiclass with "Chaos Domain Cleric"
Let's assume both of WM and Cleric use Chaos Hammer spell (by the Design Goals he said.)

• 5 Cleric (Chaos domain SLA requirement): uses WIS
• 8 WM (Chaos hammer is 4-level spell): uses CHA

5 Cleric level will be capable of casting Chaos Hammer with 20 CL, but this build is not viable because Cleric uses WIS while WM uses CHA. You should take WIS and CHA, but it is very difficult to take both for a caster. Caster Level isn't an issue. DC is an issue for every offensive spell.
Mixed Magics should alter spellcasting ability of spells into CHA mod if they really want to make this usable.

Yes I spoke about this aswell in my previous posts.
(https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?th...68-preview-2-wild-mage-archetype.11957/page-2)

Which lead to me stating that Mixed Magics should allow the highest spellcasting stat so builds like WM/CLR, etc won't have to try to maximize 2 stats instead of one in order to have DCs with their offensive spells. Mixed Magics doesn't benefit pure WMs whatsoever because being pure their caster levels are unchanged. So why restrict multiclassing with WM to SOLELY use CHA? Especially since you are sacrificing so much anyways due to multiclassing. What good would that do for an Artificer? Or an Alchemist? Or a Druid?

 

[EvilDragon]

Yes I spoke about this aswell in my previous posts.
(https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?th...68-preview-2-wild-mage-archetype.11957/page-2)

Which lead to me stating that Mixed Magics should allow the highest spellcasting stat so builds like WM/CLR, etc won't have to try to maximize 2 stats instead of one in order to have DCs with their offensive spells. Mixed Magics doesn't benefit pure WMs whatsoever because being pure their caster levels are unchanged. So why restrict multiclassing with WM to SOLELY use CHA? Especially since you are sacrificing so much anyways due to multiclassing. What good would that do for an Artificer? Or an Alchemist? Or a Druid?

I told you. It's just the design direction. I am saying I don't like opening more possibilities through that way, and you are saying I should, but why should I? Why should I like that? You don't have to convince me, and SSG eventually decides it.
I understand what you're seeing, but it's not what I am agreeing with, and what I am seeing is what you don't agree with. It's just totally by the design direction. How should I answer "why" to you? It's my answer.


----EDIT
Mainly I see CHA mod is enough in this case. Having INT/WIS mod will be cool for players, but I don't like WM having it, so simple, when especially WM isn't originally a INT/WIS caster. It doesn't make sense. That's it.
WM having INT/WIS mod alt is nothing different from saying like this "Artificers should have [Charismatic Damage/Strikes] or [Wise Damage/Strikes] spells as they have [Insightful Damage/Strike] spells." Yes, we can give them, but why should I like that design? "It opens more possibilities with multiclass." Yes, right, but why should I like this design?
Feydark's Charisma hit/damage enhancement can also be INT/WIS based too to open more possibilites, but why should I like this design?
The core funness of Dungeons and Dragons building (PnP and Online both) comes from coming over the difficulty and error of building, not only making what you want to do with given materials. Just giving players all-in-one-single-solution doesn't always provide a perfect funness according to my personal game development history, and my personal gaming experiences. That's why I am consistently saying CHA mod only is enough, and WIS/INT should be given to somewhere.

That's it. the design direction. It's very up to personal perspective, and that's why you and I say different, but both of us are right as our own.