let me fix all the op class balance problems with 10 words

kmoustakas

Scourge of Xaos
I'm a software developer creating financial software. Our customers knows how things should work. We don't make up nonsense ideas on our own. Our customers are always right, except when they happen to be wrong, but then we need to communicate with them, explain and prove that this is the case. SSG don't do this, they just go ahead with ideas and changes things as if they are in a kinder-garden school.
This. And when they INEVITABLY fail it's always the players' fault. It's almost as if they are doing you a favour.
 

woq

Well-known member
The horror story for me is actions doing obscene damage because the player chose to do specific things in sequence that were not intended to produce that effect.

This game will never be a good group game until the environment is tougher than the players. That's how you get great group play.

Edit: Just editing to say every time I see a meta build blow through a dungeon I think of little Stewie: "Look what I can do!"
Unintended mechanics aside, we are powerful with intended mechanics.

I agree the environment should be tougher than it is currently, but "capping" player power by choosing an arbitrary number to do so for a given action? That is the absolute worst way to go about it because there will be no right answer they can find to that question of "what should this number be?".
 

Asterphen

Well-known member
I have very little hope in the AI of the mobs imrproving to the point that it will ever give some top-tier casters a challenge. In pen and paper dnd, the DM can tailor the dungeon so that the casters will never feel too op because the DM can change circumstances, monster abilities, monster items and spells on the fly. The DDO environment cannot currently do that to us. Given the limitations of the hardware and software we are playing against, casters will always be able to create builds to run through content like hot knives through butter, because the environment will always be predictable. Even if the developers wanted to create dynamic situations that would be more challenging, their only tool seems to be the HP increase hammer. Nerfing R8+ caster damage seems to be a way to combat that so that casters have a bit more challenge. Right now, the state of inquisitive burst damage and some melee damage, maybe un-nerfing caster r8+ damage might not make a difference idk, I am not sure I care too much, maybe worth a shot?

But buffing melee self-heal? I don't have a ton of playing time, but I think I ran about 14 raids this past week. I think maybe half of them had no healer. We had no cleric, fvs, or bard shouting at the party. These were all pugs and all successful. The raid selection makes a huge difference, and I didn't track, but I do know we ran R1 Baba, r1 PN, H THTH, h Dryad, n Hunt (lag), and h VOD without healers. I know that clerics and favored souls do not need to limit themselves to healbots, but why bring a healer to any of these raids if melee self-heals are buffed?
 

Shear-buckler

Well-known member
I have very little hope in the AI of the mobs imrproving to the point that it will ever give some top-tier casters a challenge. In pen and paper dnd, the DM can tailor the dungeon so that the casters will never feel too op because the DM can change circumstances, monster abilities, monster items and spells on the fly. The DDO environment cannot currently do that to us. Given the limitations of the hardware and software we are playing against, casters will always be able to create builds to run through content like hot knives through butter, because the environment will always be predictable. Even if the developers wanted to create dynamic situations that would be more challenging, their only tool seems to be the HP increase hammer. Nerfing R8+ caster damage seems to be a way to combat that so that casters have a bit more challenge. Right now, the state of inquisitive burst damage and some melee damage, maybe un-nerfing caster r8+ damage might not make a difference idk, I am not sure I care too much, maybe worth a shot?

But buffing melee self-heal? I don't have a ton of playing time, but I think I ran about 14 raids this past week. I think maybe half of them had no healer. We had no cleric, fvs, or bard shouting at the party. These were all pugs and all successful. The raid selection makes a huge difference, and I didn't track, but I do know we ran R1 Baba, r1 PN, H THTH, h Dryad, n Hunt (lag), and h VOD without healers. I know that clerics and favored souls do not need to limit themselves to healbots, but why bring a healer to any of these raids if melee self-heals are buffed?
Self healing in no/low reaper is fine. The problem is high reaper.
 

The Nameless One

What can change the nature of a man ?
Too complicated R10 is fine. Just remove the entire Reaper tables, it’ll be at sufficient difficult then, also no lost souls. Revert all caster nerfs, give melee meld back, and ranged… is just fine right about now.
 

Positive thinking

Well-known member
I am happy with both meld and the self healing aura being removed from the game. These abilities werent unique to one or two classes they were available to all and made the game too easy all around. It wasnt a nerf to one class it was a nerf to all and those abilities werent good for the game in my opinion.

Different classes having distinct and unique advantages over other classes is what makes for a great party mix and potentially and fun group synergy. Yes to melee, yes to casters, yes to healers, yes to buffers, yes to range, have fun all!!
 

erethizon1

Well-known member
melee self heal isn't the problem, at all. It's the ability to reliably avoid getting hit by the big bad in push raids and rarely in r10 that is the problem for their survivability.
Then buff their defense. Melee should be able to take a hit in any and all difficulties.
 

erethizon1

Well-known member
Cap character damage output and mitigation per the character's level.

They don't have the human resources or simulators to handle balancing the classes with all of the ability interactions in the game. It would suck hard if they went down that path, but the only other tool in their tool chest is whimsical nerfs from orbit.
Yes. Capped character damage output is the only effective solution. When 1% of a class is overperforming, you don't nerf 100% of the class to get the 1% in line. You nerf the 1%. Simply limit how much damage they can do. There is no point in exploiting a bug in the game if the bug doesn't increase your damage output because you are capped.

And simply make it so that all players on all difficulties can survive hits better. So much of our problem is that higher difficulties are made harder by making the monsters hit so hard that even melee characters can't take a hit. If you are wearing heavy armor, especially with a large or tower shield, you should be difficult to kill with physical attacks, even on R10 (or R15 if that makes it in).
 

Asterphen

Well-known member
Self healing in no/low reaper is fine. The problem is high reaper.
The problem you speak of might be different than the problem the original post seemed to be referencing. The original post seems to want to fix balance. I am curious how more self-healing increases balance.

I know high reaper suppresses self-healing. I was under the impression the original post wanted more balance. If we can complete regular raids without healers, how is this balanced? I am ok being in a pug full of melee and range. I was able to play the build I preferred. No one has to switch to a healer. No one has to worry about a balanced party. No healers is an option if everyone can self-heal well enough. I feel that increasing difficulty and repair levels increases the incentive for a balanced party. Reaper incentives balanced party by increasing importance on more classes like a healer in the party. I want to know how less need for healers increases balance? I feel that my melee characters will increase effectiveness and self-sufficiency with more and better self-heals.

But, to be clear: I am not opposed to buffing self-healing. I am just curious as to how better self healing increases balance and more cleric and favored soul builds. I have a cleric in my limilted rotation of alts very much because I appreciate the healings I get in difficult raids and higher reaper settings. If my melees never need a healer, I am not sure I would feel the need to play a healer except for the past life requirement of heroic completionist.

I have fun playing DDO. The lack of "balance" in the current state is not ruing my game right now. I am ok with more balance, I am also ok with more self-healing, but I just might not be creative enough to see how more self healing increases balance.
 

lilgeek

Active member
Too complicated R10 is fine. Just remove the entire Reaper tables, it’ll be at sufficient difficult then, also no lost souls. Revert all caster nerfs, give melee meld back, and ranged… is just fine right about now.
No ranged is not fine now. Repeating xbows taking 5 seconds or more to switch targets is not "just fine". And whoever thought that having the bad guy ranged get the ability to hit moving targets was a good idea, it wasn't. Send them all to the storm trooper academy to "refine" their marksmanship skills.
 

Smokewolf

Well-known member
unnerf caster, buff melee self heal and put in R15
Player self healing is part of the problem. Other than Clerics, Palies, Druids and F-Souls, no one should be able to. It's the inter-dependency / synergy between the classes that made D&D what it is. Something that our Dev's have ether forgotten or chosen to ignore.
 

Jasparius

Well-known member
Stop both nerfing and buffing, start playing the game to get an actual idea how it's played, ask the top players for advice instead of bad strimmers, shills and yes men.

Top players will never tell the truth about their builds and how they are completing content. And given their competitiveness cannot be trusted.

The problem is no devs know how to play the game so dont know how to fix broken things.
 

Teh_Troll

Well-known member
Top players will never tell the truth about their builds and how they are completing content. And given their competitiveness cannot be trusted.
That's not it, they don't want their stuff nerfed. Most are proud to brag about them discovering an OP combo of stuff. But time and time again, build a better mousetrap and it gets crushed with a hammer.
 

Positive thinking

Well-known member
Top players will never tell the truth about their builds and how they are completing content. And given their competitiveness cannot be trusted.

The problem is no devs know how to play the game so dont know how to fix broken things.
Best builds were shared many moons ago, but it led to heavy nerfs. The people i know wont share build info in the forums, but we have a community within the game that shares woth each other. Its the only way it can be done without heavy nerfs, you can not trust SSG with this info wothout expecting those nerfs.
 

kmoustakas

Scourge of Xaos
Best builds were shared many moons ago, but it led to heavy nerfs. The people i know wont share build info in the forums, but we have a community within the game that shares woth each other. Its the only way it can be done without heavy nerfs, you can not trust SSG with this info wothout expecting those nerfs.
I don't blame them. They thought runearms were overpowered and bugnerfed them for crying out loud
 

Deamon81

Well-known member
As soon as you need an Reaper Mode, the child has fallen already into the well....

Take out overpowerd items, reduce the drop, make "normal" items more usefull again. There was a time where a +5 sword was mighty then they overpowered everything and builded set items... At the end everyone is selling basic items and fills up the inventory and even then gold becomes useless!
 
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