Let True Resurrection Bypass the Reaper Death Timer

[Drakmoon]

Body​

Hello everyone,
With Update 82, Undying Call will no longer bypass the Reaper death timer. I understand the goal of this change: removing an exception that no longer fits the intended design. However, it also leaves a gap. Once Undying Call loses this function, there will be no legitimate way to bypass the Reaper death timer.
In Reaper mode, the death timer increases by six seconds per skull. At high skull levels, that can create a significant amount of downtime, especially in raids, where one player may be forced to wait while the rest of the group continues without them.
I would like to propose a simple solution:

Allow True Resurrection to bypass the Reaper death timer​

True Resurrection is a 9th-level spell available to Clerics and Favored Souls. It is the most powerful resurrection spell in the game, restoring the target to full hit points and preserving their spell points.
The main point of this proposal is not to reduce the spell's cost or extend its range. Those are not the real issues. The issue is that True Resurrection currently lacks a defining advantage in one of the game's most demanding environments.
A 9th-level resurrection spell should feel meaningfully different from lower-level resurrection options. In Reaper mode, allowing True Resurrection to bypass the death timer would give it a clear purpose: it would be the spell that can bring a fallen player back immediately when the group cannot afford to wait.

Why this would be a good fit​

It gives True Resurrection a reason to be a 9th-level spell
True Resurrection should offer more than better healing numbers or a larger resource refund. Bypassing the Reaper death timer would give it a unique function that matches its status as the strongest resurrection spell in the game.
It strengthens the healer role
Clerics and Favored Souls are the classes with native access to True Resurrection. Giving the spell this unique Reaper function would make dedicated healers more valuable in high-skull content, particularly in raids where recovering quickly from a death can determine whether the group keeps going or falls apart.
It creates a meaningful tactical choice
This would not make death irrelevant. The healer would still need to be alive, in range, and able to spend the action and resources to cast the spell. The decision would be about when an immediate resurrection is worth using, rather than simply waiting for the timer to expire.
It fits the spell thematically
True Resurrection is the pinnacle of divine resurrection magic. It makes sense that it would be the one resurrection spell capable of overcoming the Reaper death timer.
It complements the Update 82 changes
Update 82 is already improving the Warpriest and War Soul enhancement trees. Giving True Resurrection a unique role in Reaper mode would support those changes and make Clerics and Favored Souls more appealing as dedicated high-end healers.
No major system rework should be necessary. The spell could keep its current cost, range, and cooldown. The only change would be that, when cast on a player in Reaper mode, True Resurrection bypasses the death timer.
This would not remove the challenge of Reaper mode or prevent groups from being punished for mistakes. It would give dedicated healers a meaningful tool for recovering from a death and make one of the game's highest-level healing spells feel worthy of its place in the spellbook.
I would be interested to hear what the community and the developers think.
Thank you for reading.

 

[rabidfox]

Death timers are game mechanic for the challenge mode; bypassing them removes an entire mechanic. It'd be like asking for Meteor Swarm to bypass reaper damage reductions because it's a pinacle level 9 damage spell.

 

[Smokewolf]

Death timers add a real set of consequences to players who fail to work as a team. Removing it would only encourage more zerg / solo play, at the expense of the games difficulty. Effectively hollowing out a players sense of skill, accomplishment and teamwork.

 

[Gimp]

Im ok with the OPs change but only if we bring back XP debt for deaths.

 

[Drakmoon]

Death timers add a real set of consequences to players who fail to work as a team. Removing it would only encourage more zerg / solo play, at the expense of the games difficulty. Effectively hollowing out a players sense of skill, accomplishment and teamwork.

I get the worry about encouraging zerg/solo play. But a healer still has to be alive, in touch range of the corpse, and spend a significant amount of SP and an action to cast it. It doesn't erase the consequence of death; it gives a coordinated team a high-cost way to recover from a critical mistake. If anything, this encourages teamwork because the group has to protect the healer and position around the fallen player to make it work. It doesn't hollow out the difficulty—it adds a skill-based layer to recovery.

My Main Point
To be honest, my main motivation here is about build diversity. Currently, the popular meta healer builds are heavily focused on survivability, often running 17/3 splits (or similar). In these builds, taking 9th-level spells is rare because those levels are usually splashed for defensive bonuses or other synergies.

By giving True Resurrection a unique, powerful function like bypassing the Reaper death timer, it forces healers to make a real choice: Is it worth sacrificing some survivability or splash levels to get 9th-level spells?

This would make deep Cleric/Favored Soul builds feel more meaningful and give them a distinct identity in high-skull content. Right now, there's little incentive to go deep enough for True Resurrection when a 17/3 split provides better survival. This change would give dedicated healers a reason to reconsider their build and invest in their top-tier spells.

Thanks again for reading and for the discussion.

 

[Arahabaki]

Once Undying Call loses this function, there will be no legitimate way to bypass the Reaper death timer.

There was no LEGITIMATE way to bypass the Reaper death timer in the first place.
It was a bug. An exploit. Illegitimate.
It would be like if you could jump before using your Cursed Blade of Jack Jibbers and have it activate without consuming its charge, the devs seeing people using their Jibbers constantly without using its charge, fixing the Jibbers to correctly use a charge when activated while jumping, and then complaining "There's no legitimate way to use Jibbers Blade multiple times without resting at a shrine anymore, please let it recharge over time."

No.

The exploit was fixed to accurately reflect intended game mechanics. Play the game the way it is intended without exploiting a bug.

 

[Smokewolf]

I get the worry about encouraging zerg/solo play. But a healer still has to be alive, in touch range of the corpse, and spend a significant amount of SP and an action to cast it. It doesn't erase the consequence of death; it gives a coordinated team a high-cost way to recover from a critical mistake. If anything, this encourages teamwork because the group has to protect the healer and position around the fallen player to make it work. It doesn't hollow out the difficulty—it adds a skill-based layer to recovery.

My Main Point
To be honest, my main motivation here is about build diversity. Currently, the popular meta healer builds are heavily focused on survivability, often running 17/3 splits (or similar). In these builds, taking 9th-level spells is rare because those levels are usually splashed for defensive bonuses or other synergies.

By giving True Resurrection a unique, powerful function like bypassing the Reaper death timer, it forces healers to make a real choice: Is it worth sacrificing some survivability or splash levels to get 9th-level spells?

This would make deep Cleric/Favored Soul builds feel more meaningful and give them a distinct identity in high-skull content. Right now, there's little incentive to go deep enough for True Resurrection when a 17/3 split provides better survival. This change would give dedicated healers a reason to reconsider their build and invest in their top-tier spells.

Thanks again for reading and for the discussion.

The whole point of the way the DnD / D&D classes are structured is to force players to work together, not solo-zerg R10's.

Every grace ever given to Martial classes to aid in the games playability has 100% had negative consequences for class interdependencies. If you need a better example of this, just look at the deep nerfs that are proposed for U82 that specifically target all Martials. Granted, this isn't SSG changing coarse so much as it is toning down the power of those special abilities to encourage Martials to form balanced parties for both Raiding and Reaper. Effectively giving DC Casters / DPS / Healers a place in those groups beyond just Heroic play.

So no... I'm firmly against making Reaper easier.

 

[l_remmie]

The death timer serves the intended purpose well. It should not be completely bypassed.

That said, i do think the scaling on the timer could use some adjustments.

On lower reaper it is so low it might as well not be there. Making it a minimum of 20 seconds on r1-3 would solidify it's function.
It might act as a tiny speedbump and a slight bit of risk.

In raids the blanket 2min penalty is often way too long.
It can be a lower depending on the difficulty and other factors in the raid should affect it too.
For example a raid where people have to split up could have a shorter death timer than a raid where all 12 people stay together.

 

[danzig138]

Death timers are game mechanic for the challenge mode; bypassing them removes an entire mechanic. It'd be like asking for Meteor Swarm to bypass reaper damage reductions because it's a pinacle level 9 damage spell.

Sir, I respect the heck out of you, your opinions, and your willingness to help others on these forums with integrity and without snark.

But no, your logic is flawed on this one. Unless one is delving into Dark Sun 10th level spells, or epic spells (as per 3E), 9th level spells are where you see less equity and more variance in spell effects. In this case, the OP makes a darned solid case for the TR spell by-passing the timer, and just throwing any other level 9 spell out there like this does not counter the argument. They are not the same.

OP - since we're stuck with the death timer almost certainly (I would limit all death-reversing spells a lot more than the player base could stand), I think your idea is solid and should be implemented.

 

[woq]

There was no LEGITIMATE way to bypass the Reaper death timer in the first place.
It was a bug. An exploit. Illegitimate.
It would be like if you could jump before using your Cursed Blade of Jack Jibbers and have it activate without consuming its charge, the devs seeing people using their Jibbers constantly without using its charge, fixing the Jibbers to correctly use a charge when activated while jumping, and then complaining "There's no legitimate way to use Jibbers Blade multiple times without resting at a shrine anymore, please let it recharge over time."

No.

The exploit was fixed to accurately reflect intended game mechanics. Play the game the way it is intended without exploiting a bug.

I honestly thought it was a description error and not an unintended function - 10 min cd for a lesser spell than regular resurrection made no sense. We've had inaccurate descriptions before and that was more logical to me as you also had to be on an otherwise inferior race to get it and give up unyielding sovereign as well.

That said normal true resurrection on a lower cd for bypassing timers would be way op. I'd rather see them remove death timers if a quest is completed. 9/10 of my undying call casts were to get someone who died just before boss died up so we can keep going instead of waiting 1min 30 after a raid has ended to get them up and looting.

 

[PersonMan]

How about 20 seconds +10 per skull.

Maybe have resurrections sent during the timer cuts the timer down. -10s Raise Dead, -20s Resurrection, -30s True Resurrection. Also fix it so that if you are being sent multiple raises that you automatically take the biggest one offered.

 

[rabidfox]

I honestly thought it was a description error and not an unintended function - 10 min cd for a lesser spell than regular resurrection made no sense. We've had inaccurate descriptions before and that was more logical to me as you also had to be on an otherwise inferior race to get it and give up unyielding sovereign as well.

It's a raise dead at level 6, where the spell isn't available until level 9. It lets someone have it early on or one can splash to get it on setup that wouldn't have a raise otherwise. It's not great if you've got UMD w/scrolls or once you pick up the spell from leveling, but it does still have perks.

 

[rabidfox]

If you want to make true res feel special, have it res someone without death penalities. That effects all difficulties, so it's not bypassing a reaper only mechanic.

 

[Jaspar]

The only meddling with the timer should be resetting to 0 once the dungeon/raid is complete.

 

[Elkarah]

Let's please then look at the difference between Resurrection (7th) and True resurrection (9th)...one gets you up with 50% HP the other with full HP..OHHHH such an increase in power for 2 spell levels. Either bypass the timer or have it deliver more. People are actively multiclassing and not taking lvl 9th divine spells as there's NOTHING in there if you are a healer, taking out Divine Wrath (a meh healing spell...which might randomly draw aggro).
Cheers
Elk

 

[rabidfox]

People are actively multiclassing and not taking lvl 9th divine spells as there's NOTHING in there if you are a healer

They could just make mass heal not take all day to cast to make 9th level spells more tempting.

 

[woq]

They could just make mass heal not take all day to cast to make 9th level spells more tempting.

That button punishes you for pressing it.

 

[Ying]

Let True Resurrection Bypass the Reaper Death Timer

Hell no. Asking for this simply means you don't understand why Undying Call was changed. The UC change is good for the game.

 

[Lichcrak]

There was no LEGITIMATE way to bypass the Reaper death timer in the first place.
It was a bug. An exploit. Illegitimate.
It would be like if you could jump before using your Cursed Blade of Jack Jibbers and have it activate without consuming its charge, the devs seeing people using their Jibbers constantly without using its charge, fixing the Jibbers to correctly use a charge when activated while jumping, and then complaining "There's no legitimate way to use Jibbers Blade multiple times without resting at a shrine anymore, please let it recharge over time."

No.

The exploit was fixed to accurately reflect intended game mechanics. Play the game the way it is intended without exploiting a bug.

Ever heard of cakes? Literally introduced in korthos.

Main perk of undying was it worked in raids and let the raid train continue on, oh well dead ability now, should get reworked to something interesting.

 

[rabidfox]

Ever heard of cakes? Literally introduced in korthos.

Main perk of undying was it worked in raids and let the raid train continue on, oh well dead ability now, should get reworked to something interesting.

They should stop cakes from bypassing the reaper timer too.