List of Current S-tier builds...

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Was gonna say all my builds are S-Tier, but then I realised the S wasn't meaning what I thought it did... ??

 

[voenixa121]

I have seen it wiith my own eyes, over the years. Yes people do post builds and they do not get nerfed, but i have seen the other side of the coin. In fact i was running a build similar to a streamer before it was nerfed. I didn't complain i just used it as a lesson for future builds i came up with. The best thing about this game is the character creator. I really don't believe there is any other game that has such a great variety of builds. I love coming up wiith new builds,playstyles and optimizing my build. I just don't want to take the risk of posting them, for the chance of them being nerfed.

If that's the case then I don't know what the goal of balancing even is. And I guess it's good some people still post their builds. There is a lot to learn, this game is just so complex.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Except no one forces you to play strong builds. There's a logical fallacy there that people *have* to play OP builds which is only true if the game is balanced around it. Now, it does mean that certain players will run only those builds, but it's not actually a limit on character customization. It does introduce an opportunity cost, but for most builds in DDO, that opportunity cost actually isn't that big- maybe a skull or two on Reaper, if you're soloing. There's this idea that OP builds are must picks but I've never seen anyone give a compelling reason why some of the builds they cite as OP are actually bad for game health because most of them are "I can't do this on *my* build" complaints, which clearly means not everyone is playing the OP builds.

I also suspect that a lot of the people who see a build and call it OP are just missing things entirely- someone could have best in slot items, full heroic, racial and epic completionist, +8 supreme tomes, maxed out guild buffs and all kinds of other power boosts that make that same build not viable for a first life free to play newbie, which means that builds sometimes get targeted not because the build itself is strong but the players running them have both a ton of other buffs and tons of game knowledge.

The problem is that a lot of people will only try builds they think will do well, which could be fixed by making resetting builds more accessible. Even in a pretty optimized grind you're going to be locked into a build for, like, what, a dozen hours at least of leveling if you want to get out to another build via TR/ER? If lesser reincarnations were cheaper, people would fell more freedom to experiment and play with interesting builds.

Now, I can see a context where you're in a toxic raid group that demands you play maxed out specialized OP builds or something, but at that point I'd say you've missed the point of playing a game. If you're not having fun because someone is telling you how to play, that's a problem with who you're playing with, not the builds. But almost all DDO content is pretty easy with most builds or even just veteran characters with tons of past lives and the like. It's entirely how people play the game (maxing out reaper skulls and living for the grind) that limits people to "OP builds" and that's not a design issue with the game, per se, as much as a product of players having strong opinions. I love good builds, don't get me wrong, but I've never seen someone hit higher numbers in a dungeon or clear stuff easily while I'm struggling and say "Welp, guess I shouldn't enjoy this build."

I agree that balance in DDO has mostly always been good enough and there has been enough nerfas to allow for deep character customization, that does however no mean that imbalance if too great will limit customization. There is no fallacy in that.

 

[Kimbere]

Threads about past life grind: past lives doesnt matter, character power comes from having a good build.

Thread about good builds: Builds doesnt matter, its all about playing what you enjoy.

None of those things are mutually exclusive. Also, you're applying binary black and white extremes to something that's generally discussed in varying levels of gray.

Good builds matter. Past lives matter. Enjoying the game matters.

Neither good builds nor past lives are actually required to enjoy the game. Even enjoying the game isn't strictly required, but I would question why someone is playing the game if they aren't enjoying it.

 

[Shear-buckler]

None of those things are mutually exclusive. Also, you're applying binary black and white extremes to something that's generally discussed in varying levels of gray.

Good builds matter. Past lives matter. Enjoying the game matters.

Neither good builds nor past lives are actually required to enjoy the game. Even enjoying the game isn't strictly required, but I would question why someone is playing the game if they aren't enjoying it.

Just calling out what is clearly there for all to see

 

[AMess]

a thread asking for builds quickly devolves into fear of posting OR ego competition. I'm often looking for build ideas & I'm just looking for something to try-out that I haven't thought of & frankly I don't care how the forum judges the tier aspect of the build.

if someone posts the "best" build, I don't have the desire to judge/rate their build...but what I do like is the ideas and methodology behind why they build and how they play it. ultimately, if I like their build, I'll re-interrupt the build for my playstyle anyway.

from my perspective, the devs seems to have slowed nerfs a lot. my recent memory is of various enhancement trees getting buffed, that was very exciting for me and I hope for more of that!

perhaps if we were kinder to each other?

 

[Hobgoblin]

i might suggest the unoffical discord. people seem to be kinder. at least to people that are not me

 

[Kimbere]

Just calling out what is clearly there for all to see

You're calling out what *you* see.

Whether that's accurate or not is debatable. Given that you're resorting to using binary extremes to make the case and completely ignoring the reasonable middle ground on both sides of the center, it is likely not accurate.

It's more accurate to say, past lives and builds matter *sometimes* and sometimes they do not matter much.

For example, when you're doing R10 push raids. You need every tiny advantage you can get so you'd want all the past lives and the best build you can get.

On the flip side of that coin, they do not matter much if you just want to group with friends running elite or low skulls on a regular basis.

 

[Shear-buckler]

You're calling out what *you* see.

Whether that's accurate or not is debatable. Given that you're resorting to using binary extremes to make the case and completely ignoring the reasonable middle ground on both sides of the center, it is likely not accurate.

It's more accurate to say, past lives and builds matter *sometimes* and sometimes they do not matter much.

For example, when you're doing R10 push raids. You need every tiny advantage you can get so you'd want all the past lives and the best build you can get.

On the flip side of that coin, they do not matter much if you just want to group with friends running elite or low skulls on a regular basis.

Yes and when talking about past lives its all about the build and the past lives doesnt really matter and when talking about builds its all about playing whatever you find fun and the build doesnt really matter. The two-facedness of a certain crowd and their inability to see it is hilarious.

My take is that both build and past lives matter for progression rate, failure chance, effort level, contribution potential at all levels of play. You obviously can play whatever you want in whatever content you want and not care about anything, but if you come the forum and ask for advice you clearly care about some aspect.

The notion that the most powerful build is the one you enjoy the most is absolutely inane. You may enjoy mechanics and interactions that are clearly underpowered and building around those will certainly make your build less powerful than building around other, stronger, mechanics and interactions.

 

[rabidfox]

Yes and when talking about past lives its all about the build and the past lives doesnt really matter and when talking about builds its all about playing whatever you find fun and the build doesnt really matter. The two-facedness of a certain crowd and their inability to see it is hilarious.

Both are true. You could put me on certain builds of others that they consider top tier and I'll do badly; because they're not playstyles that mesh with me. I have zero issues admitting there's things in this game I don't enjoy playing and things I don't I play well. One needs a foundation of what works for a player alongside builds/gear rigged up for that. I linked builds for an amazing healer setup, a top tier r10 push raid support artificer, and a 1st lifer support warlock that can push raids. They are solid builds, that do what they need to do very very well, and yet many people will never want to use them because they don't appeal to what some folks find fun. Many people want to see big numbers for damage floating on their screen; and that's fine, it brings them joy... which takes us full circle to the the baseline for any build is what one enjoys and then things are built up from there. How about you post your builds and people can decide if they want to run them?

 

[Shear-buckler]

Both are true. You could put me on certain builds of others that they consider top tier and I'll do badly; because they're not playstyles that mesh with me. I have zero issues admitting there's things in this game I don't enjoy playing and things I don't I play well. One needs a foundation of what works for a player alongside builds/gear rigged up for that. I linked builds for an amazing healer setup, a top tier r10 push raid support artificer, and a 1st lifer support warlock that can push raids. They are solid builds, that do what they need to do very very well, and yet many people will never want to use them because they don't appeal to what some folks find fun. Many people want to see big numbers for damage floating on their screen; and that's fine, it brings them joy... which takes us full circle to the the baseline for any build is what one enjoys and then things are built up from there. How about you post your builds and people can decide if they want to run them?

The problem is that "then things are built up from there" is outside of your circle. If nothing but enjoyment of executing and watching mechanics and interactions matter there is nothing to build up. If there is something to build up then the build does matter, because that is what you build up.

That you should play something you enjoy is trivial and no one needs to be told that.

 

[Discount Gandalf]

Yes and when talking about past lives its all about the build and the past lives doesnt really matter and when talking about builds its all about playing whatever you find fun and the build doesnt really matter. The two-facedness of a certain crowd and their inability to see it is hilarious.

My take is that both build and past lives matter for progression rate, failure chance, effort level, contribution potential at all levels of play. You obviously can play whatever you want in whatever content you want and not care about anything, but if you come the forum and ask for advice you clearly care about some aspect.

The notion that the most powerful build is the one you enjoy the most is absolutely inane. You may enjoy mechanics and interactions that are clearly underpowered and building around those will certainly make your build less powerful than building around other, stronger, mechanics and interactions.

It also matters for even being able to viably participate in community play vs being forced to solo in this low population game. If everyone is running r6+, it hardly matters that underpowered characters aren't meant to be there. That's where they are going to end up if they want to play with others. Good luck rolling up with a "play what you want" build in that scenario. You'll be lucky if you don't get flamed before everyone drops group to reform without you. That is the (third?) side of the coin in that scenario. Past lives don't matter, build matters -> build doesn't matter, play what you want -> break my barrels and be my heal b**** or get out of my group you non-contributing first lifer scrub. It's beyond exasperating watching this community go around in circles on this or take their own subjective experience and assume that everyone else has the exact same situation or opportunities.

 

[Hobgoblin]

It also matters for even being able to viably participate in community play vs being forced to solo in this low population game. If everyone is running r6+, it hardly matters that underpowered characters aren't meant to be there. That's where they are going to end up if they want to play with others. Good luck rolling up with a "play what you want" build in that scenario. You'll be lucky if you don't get flamed before everyone drops group to reform without you. That is the (third?) side of the coin in that scenario. Past lives don't matter, build matters -> build doesn't matter, play what you want -> break my barrels and be my heal b**** or get out of my group you non-contributing first lifer scrub. It's beyond exasperating watching this community go around in circles on this or take their own subjective experience and assume that everyone else has the exact same situation or opportunities.

i dont see that. and if i see someone doing that i kick them or leave group


my lfms say something along the lines of moving fast.

all i require is that you dont go afk when there is a gather point.

anything else is gravy

 

[PraetorPlato]

It also matters for even being able to viably participate in community play vs being forced to solo in this low population game. If everyone is running r6+, it hardly matters that underpowered characters aren't meant to be there. That's where they are going to end up if they want to play with others. Good luck rolling up with a "play what you want" build in that scenario. You'll be lucky if you don't get flamed before everyone drops group to reform without you. That is the (third?) side of the coin in that scenario. Past lives don't matter, build matters -> build doesn't matter, play what you want -> break my barrels and be my heal b**** or get out of my group you non-contributing first lifer scrub. It's beyond exasperating watching this community go around in circles on this or take their own subjective experience and assume that everyone else has the exact same situation or opportunities.

Pick a role you want to play. Ask for specific build advice for that role/get a build for that role. Execute it to the max on a first life toon. You'll get more people thanking you for carrying than wanting to kick you.

 

[rabidfox]

Irony is people complaining about things without posting their own builds. It takes effort and time to post solid builds with gear layouts, but it's much easier to just complain on the forums. If you think things are being held back, post your builds.

 

[Shear-buckler]

Here are two posts from the same poster, the first is from a thread about past lives and the second is from this thread about builds.

Gear and build, gear and build, gear and build... That's how one makes low life characters shine.

The builds you find fun to play are all the good ones. The builds you don't enjoy are all the ones to be avoid. Adjust difficulty setting relative to whatever that build, gear, and one's skill supports and enjoy.

I look forward to reading the gymnastics for this one.

 

[PraetorPlato]

Here are two posts from the same poster, the first is from a thread about past lives and the second is from this thread about builds.

TBF, they're saying that you can knock down the difficulty to make any build work, whereas the first one is presumably saying that for high difficulties, good gear and good build matter.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

i dont see that. and if i see someone doing that i kick them or leave group


my lfms say something along the lines of moving fast.

all i require is that you dont go afk when there is a gather point.

anything else is gravy

Never seen that behaviour either. If someone is a dkhead, they will be avoided. That goes for leaders as well.

Must be nearly 5 years ago now some leader was really obnoxious to a player - wasn't a newbie or anything, just lost her sh with the guy for no reason. I, and others, never grouped with her again.

But I can count on one hand the folks I actively avoid, which isn't too shabby a tally for nigh 14 years in the game.

I reckon most of the drama queens have left by now. Generally everyone is very tolerant these days, and for new players in particular, folks will try to help them out rather than give them the hairdryer treatment.

Bad behaviour cuts both ways, as does courtesy. Folks thinking they can get away with the former without consequence are delusional. It's too small a pop to hide in now, and karma, well karma's a b.... ??

 

[Discount Gandalf]

What did I just say about taking your own subjective experience and assuming everyone else has the same situation or opportunities? I'd never claim someone is a liar but damn you have to be deeply imbedded in your own personal bubble to not see how non-vets get treated around here.

 

[Hobgoblin]

What did I just say about taking your own subjective experience and assuming everyone else has the same situation or opportunities? I'd never claim someone is a liar but damn you have to be deeply imbedded in your own personal bubble to not see how non-vets get treated around here.

im not saying it doesnt happen.

im saying what my response to it has been.