List of Current S-tier builds...

S

Shear-buckler

Master of reactions
rabidfox said:
It's silly to me to talk about "most efficient" builds without context of how one wants to use them; top tier in situation A can easily be bottom tier in situation B.
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Whats so silly about it? People are posting builds and saying in what context they find it S-tier. That seems perfectly reasonable to me.

The silly thing to do is to take the OPs call for the most effective builds and do a sleight of hand and respond with an obviously twisted meaning of what effective is refering to.
 
Bjond

Bjond

Well-known member
I dont Like gimps said:
OH for sure I usually Ottos or boxed my every thrower Life :D
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Newbies may not get this one, lemme translate: throwers have such painfully low dps sub-cap (before end gear) that people will even pay for an instant-leveling XP stone to avoid doing it. And, yes, saying it's bad sub-cap is understatement. It's like leveling a zero-dps tank that can't take a hit.

There is a much cheaper way out of doing that for pretty much any thrower build: level as INQuisitive. It only takes two feat swaps to convert a thrower to/from a decent INQ for very fast leveling: critical-ranged instead of critical-thrown and rapid-shot for one other feat. That second feat varies by build, but it's often lucky or nimble on my throwers.

You get one free feet swap per life and it's usually easy to find a stone for a cheap swap per life, too (or can shard it if impatient).

BTW, the one big "trick" / "tip" for doing this kind of swap is to delay Overwhelming Critical until very late (like L30). Otherwise, the feat-swapping becomes ridiculous, since you need to swap O.Crit out and back to unlock swapping i.Crit. Just be sure to swap before taking your O.Crit level.
 
M

mikarddo

Well-known member
Guntango said:
I think the game is in a great spot. A few builds can be considered for each S-tier Melee, S-tier Ranged, S-tier DC Caster, and S-tier Healer. There's only one missing: Nuker.
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Aye, nukers are in a very bad spot both for raids and for R10s. For R6 and below or for leveling nukers are fine but not at all for endgame.
 
voenixa121

voenixa121

Well-known member
Hobgoblin said:
you cant say that.

you are just elitist exploitive scum if you dont share your builds to get nerfed.....
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Okay let me rephrase what I wrote a bit.
What really irks me about this community is how some people are so secretive aabout things in a game where the most important and most fun aspect is the character building.
Now what are we even talking about when talking about "nerfs"? Because what is missing from the game are just some descriptions and I suspect is that what's not being talked about is when a skill/ability/passive/enchancement doesn't do whats in the description or has an interaction with another skill/ability/etc. that is not apparant from the description. Like how chain blast can trigger the sneak attack damage from Paranoia on every target, ignoring the icd or how tsunami counts as both water and force (or water and cold not sure about it) spell and gets double the cl/mcl increase from Season's Herald enchancements.
I remember when the double scaling bug from orchid blossom was fixed people called it a "nerf" of a "good build".
If that is what we are talking about then I don't get this attitude. Then it's only about protecting your toys and every discussion about balance makes me wonder if this is really about balance or just about protecting these interactions, keeping them secret. Lamannia is usually swarmed with these people that otherwise keep everything secret.
When I experiment with builds and find one of these I usually report it as a bug. For example that tsunami interaction I reported about a year ago I think and it's still not changed even now. So where is this perceived danger of "nerfs" even coming from?
And the community is really suffering from this. Builds are 90% of the game and if it can't even be talked about then whats the point of talking about the game at all? Discussing technical issues? Complaining? That's why I am so thankful to all the people that do actually post builds or discuss game mechanics like Kalibano or Tilomere. Or the people that keep the wiki alive. They are the real champions of the community.
Also, I feel like I need to add, keeping game mechanics a secret is not being part of an elite. But it shows that bad attitude I was talking about.
 
S

Shear-buckler

Master of reactions
voenixa121 said:
Okay let me rephrase what I wrote a bit.
What really irks me about this community is how some people are so secretive aabout things in a game where the most important and most fun aspect is the character building.
Now what are we even talking about when talking about "nerfs"? Because what is missing from the game are just some descriptions and I suspect is that what's not being talked about is when a skill/ability/passive/enchancement doesn't do whats in the description or has an interaction with another skill/ability/etc. that is not apparant from the description. Like how chain blast can trigger the sneak attack damage from Paranoia on every target, ignoring the icd or how tsunami counts as both water and force (or water and cold not sure about it) spell and gets double the cl/mcl increase from Season's Herald enchancements.
I remember when the double scaling bug from orchid blossom was fixed people called it a "nerf" of a "good build".
If that is what we are talking about then I don't get this attitude. Then it's only about protecting your toys and every discussion about balance makes me wonder if this is really about balance or just about protecting these interactions, keeping them secret. Lamannia is usually swarmed with these people that otherwise keep everything secret.
When I experiment with builds and find one of these I usually report it as a bug. For example that tsunami interaction I reported about a year ago I think and it's still not changed even now. So where is this perceived danger of "nerfs" even coming from?
And the community is really suffering from this. Builds are 90% of the game and if it can't even be talked about then whats the point of talking about the game at all? Discussing technical issues? Complaining? That's why I am so thankful to all the people that do actually post builds or discuss game mechanics like Kalibano or Tilomere. Or the people that keep the wiki alive. They are the real champions of the community.
Also, I feel like I need to add, keeping game mechanics a secret is not being part of an elite. But it shows that bad attitude I was talking about.
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Yeah I posted about the VKF tier 1 ability working for all weapon types at one point and got attacked over it. When it was fixed i was attacked further.

Now, without any mention in the description, its a 3xhit cleave attack. A fact that i rarely see mentioned.
 
Spook

Spook

Ghostly Troll
Shear-buckler said:
Yeah I posted about the VKF tier 1 ability working for all weapon types at one point and got attacked over it. When it was fixed i was attacked further.

Now, without any mention in the description, its a 3xhit cleave attack. A fact that i rarely see mentioned.
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So to be clear you are upset that builds don’t get posted publicly anymore but when they are you bug report them to get them nerfed?
 
voenixa121

voenixa121

Well-known member
Spook said:
So to be clear you are upset that builds don’t get posted publicly anymore but when they are you bug report them to get them nerfed?
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How can we even know what is a bug and what is not? The game is just poorly documented. If a bug report doesn't lead to any change it's safe to assume it's intended. A real problem is not knowing what's intended and what's not. Tooltips are a mess. And that's where this fear comes from of things being "nerfed" and this adversarial attitude towards bug reports or posting builds. But what is not intended will be changed eventually anyway. Or worse, if something is kept secret then maybe things will get nerfed that don't actually deserve it. Like how people are talking about how cleric/warlock/wizard casting dps got reduced in r7+. But I am sure some people got to keep their secret toys they are just not talking about.
 
L

Leumas Reyemreggin

Well-known member
Bjond said:
Newbies may not get this one, lemme translate: throwers have such painfully low dps sub-cap (before end gear) that people will even pay for an instant-leveling XP stone to avoid doing it. And, yes, saying it's bad sub-cap is understatement. It's like leveling a zero-dps tank that can't take a hit.

There is a much cheaper way out of doing that for pretty much any thrower build: level as INQuisitive. It only takes two feat swaps to convert a thrower to/from a decent INQ for very fast leveling: critical-ranged instead of critical-thrown and rapid-shot for one other feat. That second feat varies by build, but it's often lucky or nimble on my throwers.

You get one free feet swap per life and it's usually easy to find a stone for a cheap swap per life, too (or can shard it if impatient).

BTW, the one big "trick" / "tip" for doing this kind of swap is to delay Overwhelming Critical until very late (like L30). Otherwise, the feat-swapping becomes ridiculous, since you need to swap O.Crit out and back to unlock swapping i.Crit. Just be sure to swap before taking your O.Crit level.
Click to expand...
Imma be honest I hate leveling as an inquis too D:
 
L

Leumas Reyemreggin

Well-known member
voenixa121 said:
How can we even know what is a bug and what is not? The game is just poorly documented. If a bug report doesn't lead to any change it's safe to assume it's intended. A real problem is not knowing what's intended and what's not. Tooltips are a mess. And that's where this fear comes from of things being "nerfed" and this adversarial attitude towards bug reports or posting builds. But what is not intended will be changed eventually anyway. Or worse, if something is kept secret then maybe things will get nerfed that don't actually deserve it. Like how people are talking about how cleric/warlock/wizard casting dps got reduced in r7+. But I am sure some people got to keep their secret toys they are just not talking about.
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Its Usually very obvious if something is bugged or WAI and in that case isnt spoken about
 
Cmecu

Cmecu

Well-known member
I dont Like gimps said:
Imma be honest I hate leveling as an inquis too D:
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From banging out heroic past lives, I still think Warlock is one of the best for leveling. Just spray spray spray spray to 20. Nothing fancy. Run past everything, let everything group up, spray spray spray, everything is dead.

I remember leveling as a shooter one time. It was painful. But now they changed the ranged and added some aoe attacks. I am not sure what they all are because I havent played a ranged build since probably 8 years ago.
 
Cmecu

Cmecu

Well-known member
Guntango said:
The higher the difficulty, the less this is true.
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True, but that is with any build. Most people dont run around on higher reapers. But it does well even up to Reaper 4. I never feel the need to go higher when playing solo, but in groups we do R10.
Everyones DPS drops.
 
Guntango

Guntango

Well-known member
Cmecu said:
True, but that is with any build. Most people dont run around on higher reapers. But it does well even up to Reaper 4. I never feel the need to go higher when playing solo, but in groups we do R10.
Everyones DPS drops.
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Nah.

Single target, aoe and soloing builds each need to specialize to be more effective in more difficult content. There are specific S-Tier builds for each that would leave a jack of all trades far behind.

RabidFox wisely offered, for some of the most stubborn posters here: lower difficulty content is more forgiving to flavor builds. Your build could be S-Tier for multiple specialties at R2 but D-Tier for any specialty at R7.
 
J

Jaspar

Well-known member
Shear-buckler said:
Yeah I posted about the VKF tier 1 ability working for all weapon types at one point and got attacked over it. When it was fixed i was attacked further.

Now, without any mention in the description, its a 3xhit cleave attack. A fact that i rarely see mentioned.
Click to expand...

I wouldnt worry too much if people who thought they were clever because they could stomp R10 then found out they werent actually able to stomp R10...
 
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