Looking for help optimizing Melee Artificer + Dragonlord

[CrimsonCaiman]

Introduction
Hello! I struggled a lot with melee builds while doing my heroic completionist, but I'm getting a little tired of running Blightcaster/Warlock for my racial lives. I want to try making a melee build that's comfortable for me. I won't be attempting to solo R6+, I won't be touting myself as a DPS for LE/LR raiding, but I might join some higher skull groups or casual raid groups (and would rather not be dead weight).

While I might try and incorporate fully finished sentient weapons and filigrees down the line, I'm not willing to invest in a full filigree setup while testing the build. I'm willing to invest basic augments like +X Stat or +X% HAMP, but I don't have the resources to add augments like Cruel Cut or Dusk Raider.

In a similar vein to the whole "actively avoiding min/maxing to the extreme", I'm not willing to chug 10 different potions at the start of every Quest/Raid. The same thing goes with swapping items to snapshot for trances (hence you'll see in the build I just do DLord STR trance instead of running Rage + Dlord CHA trance).

I genuinely just want something approachable for players while showcasing realistic numbers that don't require the perfect raid gear, augments, and mythic/reaper/fortune boosted gear.

Build Goals

• Level Comfortably (No major hitches)
• Trapping
• Decent DPS
• Decent Durability (Not enough to tank raids, but enough to not die instantly)
• Decent SelfHeal (Maybe enough to solo easier raids on LN or LH, maybe enough to not have to AFK for 10 minutes to self-heal in low Reaper ... looking at you L VoD)

Variants
The two variants I'm tinkering with are:
13/6/1 Artificer/DragonLord/Barbarian (+10% movespeed the entire time, no scrolling required)
12/8 Artificer/DragonLord (Velah's Fury, needs Tensor Scrolls)

I might be missing the reason in the builder, but here are the differences I'm seeing...

• 198 AC vs 193 AC
• 121 Damage vs 126 Damage
• 139 Crit Dmg vs 144 Crit Dmg

The Barbarian split has marginally better AC (Kinetic Charge), runspeed, and the convenience of not needing scrolls, but the Arti/Dlord split has better Damage (Velah's Fury). I'm leaning towards the Barbarian split because the differences seem negligible, and not needing to scroll sounds lovely. Even still, I could be convinced that there's a substantial damage difference that outweighs that convenience.

Help
Based on reading about other builds, there are a few big things that I think could be optimized with this build.

• PRR: I see a lot of other builds sitting at 300+ PRR. I'm not expecting to hit that high, but it makes the 158 I'm at seem extremely low. Without all the filigrees, I'm thinking that a more reasonable spot would be around 225ish (but I don't know how to get there)
• MRR: I see a lot of other builds above 150 MRR. I don't think being at 102 is the end of the world, but getting up to 150 would be a decent bump in damage reduction.
• Doublestrike: I know the goal is always to be near 100%, but I'm sitting at 58%. I don't know how to improve this without making major sacrifices.
• Melee Power: With all the temp boosts and filigrees, I know 400+ is possible, but excluding all those temporary bonuses, I think that aiming for 250ish should be reasonable ... meanwhile, I'm sitting at 198
• Tactical DCs: Usually, I'm seeing 120+. My only real form of CC is Dragon's Roar (which I know tends to be higher than some other DCs), but I'm still only hitting 92 according to the builder. I would assume that I need at least 105-110 to have any amount of consistency.

I think my AC, attack, and damage are in okay spots given the constraints of the build, but I could be wrong.

Spoiler: Enhancements

My 3 Universal Points were Spent in Harper Agent, C1 and Enchant Weapon, +2 Hit/Dmg for my free APs is a good deal imo.

Spoiler: 13 Arti, 6 DLord, 1 Barb

Spoiler: 12 Arti, 8 DLord

Spoiler: Epic Destinies

I'm not sure exactly how many extra points I have relative to a new player, but I don't think it's that many. At that point, I would assume you just take points out of Legendary Dreadnought.

Spoiler: Gear

Equipped Gear Set: Easy Build

Armor	Legendary University Spellshield's Coat	Drops in: Paper Trail, End chest
	Lost Purpose: Legendary Devil's Infernal Dance
Belt	Legendary Belt of the Black Sands	Drops in: Isle of Dread (wilderness), rare encounter chest
	IoD: Accessory: Claw Slot: Claw: Stunning
	The Legendary Dread Isle's Curse
Boots	Legendary Beachcombers	Drops in: Whispers of Return, end chest
	IoD: Accessory: Scale Slot: Scale: +53 False Life
	The Legendary Dread Isle's Curse
Bracers	Legendary Bronzed Bracers	Drops in: Fall of the Forbidden Temple, end chest
	IoD: Accessory: Scale Slot: Scale: Repair Spell Critical Damage
	The Legendary Dread Isle's Curse
Cloak	Legendary University Duelist's Cloak	Drops in: Taken in Hand, End chest
	Lost Purpose: Legendary Devil's Infernal Dance
Gloves	Legendary Greenpine Gauntlets	Drops in: The Curse and the Captive Crustacean, end chest
	IoD: Accessory: Scale Slot: Scale: +14 Strength
	The Legendary Dread Isle's Curse
Goggles	Legendary Precision Lenses	Drops in: White Plume Mountain, End chest, Burket and Snarla's chest
Helmet	Legendary University Champion's Helm	Drops in: Party 101, End chest
	Lost Purpose: Legendary Devil's Infernal Dance
Necklace	Legendary Rust-Laden Pendant	Drops in: Kill Ten Rats, End Chest
Ring1	Legendary Ring of Unbridled Might	Drops in: Astral Ambush, end chest
Ring2	Legendary Illithid Hunter's Signet	Drops in: Stolen Power, end chest
Trinket	Legendary Blue Raptor Feather	Drops in: Trials of the Triceratops, end chest
	IoD: Accessory: Fang Slot: Fang: Repair Amplification +56
	The Legendary Dread Isle's Curse
Weapon1	Dinosaur Bone Warhammer	Drops in: The Isle of Dread, any chest
	IoD: Weapon: Scale Slot: Flamescale
	IoD: Weapon: Fang Slot: Meltfang
	IoD: Weapon: Claw Slot: Flameclaw: Strength
	IoD: Weapon: Horn Slot: Icehorn
Weapon2	Legendary Necronomicannon	Drops in: The Feywild, rare encounters
	Eminence of Winter

Spoiler: THE NUMBERS

Note, these numbers are using the Barbarian variant, but as mentioned above, there are only a handful of differences.

Character name:
Classes: 13 Artificer, 6 Dragon Lord, 1 Barbarian, E10, L4
Race: Aasimar Alignment: Chaotic Neutral

Start Tome Final HP: 3280 Displacement: 50%
Str: 18 8 80 Unc Rng: -360 Incorp: 20%
Dex: 12 8 31 PRR: 159 AC: 198
Con: 16 8 67 MRR: 102 +Healing Amp: 39
Int: 12 8 27 Dodge: 17/25 -Healing Amp: 24
Wis: 12 8 28 Fort: 198% Repair Amp: 250
Cha: 8 8 23 SR: 0 BAB: 21
DR:
Immunities: Sleep, Hold Person, Energy Drain, Nauseated, Exhausted, Paralyzed, Magic Missiles, Fear, Fear, Death Effects

Saves:

Fortitude		62
	vs Poison	62
	vs Disease	62
Will		45
	vs Enchantment	47
	vs Illusion	47
	vs Fear	45
	vs Curse	45
Reflex		46
	vs Traps	48
	vs Spell	57
	vs Magic	46

Marked with a* is no fail on a 1 if required DC met

Energy	Resistance	Absorbance
Acid:	7	1%
Chaos:	0	0%
Cold:	7	1%
Electric:	19	19%
Evil:	0	0%
Fire:	2	1%
Force:	0	24%
Good:	0	0%
Lawful:	0	0%
Light:	0	0%
Negative:	0	36%
Poison:	0	0%
Sonic:	2	10%

Spell Power	Base	Critical Chance	Critical Multiplier
Acid	224	8%	10
Light/Alignment	209	5%	10
Chaos	209	5%	10
Cold	209	8%	10
Electric	244	8%	10
Evil	209	5%	10
Fire	209	8%	10
Force/Untyped	209	5%	10
Negative	213	5%	10
Physical	209	5%	10
Poison	209	5%	10
Positive	236	5%	10
Repair	494	27%	35
Rust	309	27%	35
Sonic	241	8%	10
Untyped	209	5%	10

[/COLOR]
Weapon Damage

---

Melee Power: 198
Doublestrike: 58%
Strikethrough: 20%
Mainhand damage ability multiplier: 1
Offhand damage ability multiplier: 0
Off-Hand attack Chance: 20%
Fortification Bypass: 97%
Dodge Bypass: 5%
Helpless Damage bonus: 65%
Ranged Power: 191
Doubleshot Chance: 26%

Sneak Attack Attack bonus: 0
Sneak Attack Damage: 0d6+1

Main Hand: Dinosaur Bone Warhammer
On Hit 5.20[1d8+2]+119
Critical 17-18 (5.20[1d8+2]+137) * 6
Critical 19-20 (5.20[1d8+2]+137) * 7
DR Bypass: Adamantine, Bludgeon, Cold Iron, Evil, Magic
You bypass Incorporeality miss chance with this weapon

Off Hand: Legendary Necronomicannon
On Hit 0.00[]+41
Critical 20 (0.00[]+59) * 3
Critical 19-20 (0.00[]+59) * 4
DR Bypass: Adamantine, Cold Iron, Evil
You bypass Incorporeality miss chance with this weapon

Tactical DC	Value	Evaluation
Intimidate	10+HD+Wis Mod vs d20 + 16	d20 + Intimidate(21)
Diplomacy	CR+Quest Level vs d20 + 16	d20 + Diplomacy(21)
Bluff	CR+Quest Level vs d20 + 16	d20 + Bluff(21)
Sunder	Fortitude vs 75	10 + Str Mod(35) + Sunder(30)
Trip	Balance vs 73	10 + Str Mod(35) + Trip(28)
Dragon's Roar	Will vs 92	10 + Max Mod(Str(35), Cha(6)) + Stun(43) + Breath Weapon(4)

Rationale
Aasimar Race: This serves two purposes. The first is that Aasimar is next on my list for Racials (finished Human, so I want the +2 Wis for future Blightcasters). The second is that aside from Warforged (which is at the end of my list), it's the only race with permanent bonuses to Melee Power (and doublestrike). The other races have that tied to an action boost.

Imp. Bludgeoning: Dragonlord gives +2 Crit Multiplier, so I wanted to find something that focused on Crit Range. With Knight's Training, I get +2 to Crit Range (and if I ever swap to using Raid Gear, I'm looking at FoM drops and swapping Dread Isle with Forbidden Knowledge).

Delayed Knight's Training: Whirlwind Attack AOE is just so much more useful than the expanded crit range at level 6 IMO. I could be dead wrong (and it's an easy enough swap), but I think WWA will feel a lot better 6-8 than Knight's Training will.

Scion of Mechanus: This was primarily to save 6 APs from Renegade Mastermaker. I don't think I make great use of them, but +2 Att/Dmg and +5% Doublestrike is nice. The +40 Repair spell power (20 Universal + 20 Repair), 15% Repair Crit, 20 Repair Amp, and 10% Fortification Bypass are super nice as well. Going Arborea gives 20 Melee Power, 20 Repair spell power (Universal), and +2 Att/Dmg. 20 Repair Power, 15% Repair Crit, 20 Repair Amp, Fortification Bypass, and Doublestrike seems like a worthwhile trade for just 20 Melee Power IMO. I could be dead wrong, but it seems like a lot to make up for the loss. For someone wanting to replicate this build without any racial points, they would need those 6 APs anyway to get the Ascended Fallen Bond.

Closing Remarks
I need to clean up the level order for the Barbarian variant. The feats don't line up super well (will be tinkering with it after the post), but the feats themselves shouldn't change.
[EDIT] Level 13 Fighter Bonus Feat was the Key: 1 Arti, 2 Barb, 3-4 Dlord, 5-6 Arti, 7-8 Dlord, 9-11 Arti, 12-13 Dlord, 14-20 Arti

If you notice any relatively straightforward optimizations I can make, please let me know!
I'm sure I'm also not explaining details I should, so if you need any clarification to help out, please let me know!

Spoiler: Updates: Last Updated 7/25/25, 12:06 AM CT

I'm genuinely amazed how much of a difference a handful of augments, a sentient weapon, and minimal filigrees make.
For filigrees, 3 slot weapon + 3 slot artifact would allow me to double up on The Long Shadow, Treachery, and Dreadbringer (there are probably others that work as well) for +3 Melee Power Each (6x3 = 18) and three 2-piece set bonuses each granting +5 Melee Power (33 Melee Power). If they're rares, then that's an extra +12 Melee Power.

Between that and a +10 Melee Power augment (purchasable whereas +12 is a drop), I'm getting +43/55 Melee Power bringing me to 241/253 Melee Power (which was my more reasonable expectation). If I also swap to Scion of Arborea, then that's another +20 bringing me to 261/273.

The Legendary Swordcrossed Topaz (not too bad to farm in Isle of Dread) gives me +15% Doublestrike bringing me to 69% (dropped 4% DS to improve dodge cap).

Giving myself a single, relatively easily farmable raid weapon (ATTUNED Dino Bone Weapon) gave myself an extra slot for set bonuses giving me 2-pc Winter. Direbear gave me +17 insightful sheltering, and 2-pc Winter gave me +30 PRR pushing me to 205/118. It's still a bit below what I was hoping to reach, but it's substantially better.

As someone who didn't really want to engage with these endgame mechanics... I can clearly see that that's a massive mistake. Even if I don't wany to fully dive into them, low-effort acknowledgements make massive differences in some of these builds.

 

[Zvdegor]

Hi @CrimsonCaiman

I am a Melee Arti player from my heart. Playing and improving my own Melee Arti build since 2020. ( click here for the build or check this other caster/melee hybryd arti Yuriku's Titan Artificer Build).

I have a very detailed build guide (feats, enhancement and ED trees, leveling gearsets, cap gear set, and much more) from lvl 1 till cap. Check it for ideas and inspiration for your own build. I pretty much tried everything and tested what is working and what isn't for this playstyle.

I'd like to share with you my experience in these topics:

• Leveling
  • As an artificer you heroic level your melee arti as ranged (no ranged feats needed Repeaters are powerful enough without those)
  • I saw you took Construct and Improved Construct Essence feats. That means you will have bad self-heals till you get ICE feat. I normally take CE at lvl 9 and ICE at lvl 13. So that means meleeing under lvl 13 is risky and you can die a lot.
  • If you level up as range with repeater X-bow you dont need heals at all or very seldom. Repeater is very strong at low heroics and from lvl 6-8 depending how you spend your Enhancement points, you have Endless Fusilade which will clear any room, boss etc.
  • So you level up from 1 till lvl 14 as a melee toon but using Repeater X-bow and Battle Enginier tree.
  • At lvl 15 you can swap to melee mode. You have Sharn gear, Reconstruct spell, good stats.
  • I prefer Vistani tree and kukries over any other wepon because VKF gives you bunch of Melee Power, Utility, boosts which complements the Renegade Mastermake tree and Machrotechnic ED tree as well.
  • Big advantage that race doesnt matter. Even iconics can be done with this setup without a +1 heart.
  • Another big advantage is that you can play 2 different playstyles in one life which help you against burnout of meleeing too much.
  • Some crazy a** like @kmoustakas level up as arti caster but he can explain it to you in another comment
  • Summarized: lvl1-14 repeater 15-cap melee
• Reconstruction spell (not the SLA) + Mending Burst from Machrotechnic ED tree are your main source of selfheals. Dont need more.
• DPS: 4 cleave attacks: Rapid Slash/Quick Cutter/WWA/Blessed Blades + if needed Kinetic Discharge with a nice slow eefect + Mighty slam for the mini AOE stun

Hope this helps you a bit. If you have more questins I am happy to answer if I can

Cheers
ZVD

 

[SpartanKiller13]

Nice! I like this sort of build, and you have nice formatting and explanations

I would generally recommend including your ED split, esp since it seems you're going to 30+ (I'd level with RMM's Reconstruct SLA). Also some overall build stats (since you have a builder file). Like if you have 60 Str I'm gonna question it immediately, but if you have 100 Str I'm probably not going to. You "want to showcase realistic numbers" which is a very good goal but only showcase a few of them in the help section XD Are ya cruising around with 500 HP? What Fort Bypass do you have? Etc etc.

I assume Machro T5 w/mantle (and strike option) given Epic Mage Armor, Fury for QC, and uhhh LD/GMoF for stats/stun DC and stats sorta stuff? SD if raiding?

Not scrolling Tenser's is good enough QoL for me lol. If ya need to you can still scroll it before a boss fight or something if there's a cutscene. I don't think the AC/Damage/crit damage are significant enough to push you either way, personally.

A lot of stats come from gearsets (and M/R/curse on them) but also from PL's. There's 36 PRR and 15% Doublestrike available, as easy examples. You can get another 5% DS via VKF for ~9 more racial AP as well on your current split.

For PRR, if you can fit a 2nd Winter piece you'll get +30 Artifact (IoD is profane). Also at an eyeball I don't recognize an item with Ins Sheltering, so that would be another 16ish. Not to say this would be a good option, but Direbear Belt technically covers both.

For MRR, if you're ~100 I'd actually consider running Light armor; it costs you ~15 PRR but you can get +10% Dodge, which is a great tradeoff IMO. Otherwise same sorta stuff, Enhancement/Artifact/Insightful are the main three.

For DS, aiming for 70% is a reasonable backup - this puts you at 100% when Reaper boosting; but yeah it's not always easy esp without lots of PL's. So baseline 3% DL, 5% BE, 5% DS Destiny feat = 13%. Devil's w/Duelist (and presuming a Swordcrossed or some other enh) is 37% DS from gear; Fury + Machro + third tree can get ya 15-20% (depending on EDP) and that's ~65-70%?

For MP, filigree are huge. But I think you don't have Enh MP? So maybe you can chuck on a Topaz of +10 MP for almost free. Purchasable Augments, my most-visited Wiki page...

Do you have an Artifact? At an eyeball I'm not seeing one. Easiest is probably Dino Bone Ring, swap out probs the Hunter's Signet; this frees up a set slot (for eg Winter). Kind of a pain to fill, but can be pretty helpful (free +1 Str by moving the scale from your Gloves over tho). Either way, 3-4 slots for 3-6k feed is a great ROI, and if you do your weapon as well 3-4 slots for 6-10k you can run eg Dreadbringer 4-5 and Treachery 2 (for MP, tactics, bypass, and MP/threat reduction split as needed). That's part of why I wanted to see more stats, Dreadbringer 5 is one of the best sets when your Fort Bypass is mediocre, but it's a bit less impressive if you have 107% before filigree (my usual aim is 100% Fort Bypass, minus any consistent/fast debuffs if I mostly plan on raiding).

Your tactics definitely feel low to me as well; consider swapping your DL aura to Thraxata's Instinct for like +4 (also morale +Attack is a lot more common in groups FWIW). See if you can pick up +3 or +6 via LD/GMoF? Otherwise gearing more stun/tactics, or more Str is often the easiest method.

Hit ya builder, hit the breakdowns, see what you're missing. Try DDOGearPlanner (link) if you haven't yet for a fast eyeball - it's not perfect but it's very fast.

Getting a set-bonus weapon also helps a bunch, but can def be down the line a bit; but it can save you a lot of gear pain (and they're often pretty good lol). Dino Bone runearm (or Demon Engine, etc etc) for exactly the same reason.

 

[kmoustakas]

I used to go pew pew until 6, caster until 14 then melee to 20 but they have changed repeaters and runearms and artificers so much I have no idea what is going on. This also for pure artificer. Also I would be the last person to offer advice on multiclassing.

But the honest question is why artificer? It seems pointless to use artificer as a base on a multiclass MELEE build. Something like dark hunter or even rogue 1 (so 18/1/1) or the 12/6/2 with 2 rogue can give you trapping without taking away from your build or mess your base attack bonus.

 

[CrimsonCaiman]

Nice! I like this sort of build, and you have nice formatting and explanations

I would generally recommend including your ED split, esp since it seems you're going to 30+ (I'd level with RMM's Reconstruct SLA). Also some overall build stats (since you have a builder file). Like if you have 60 Str I'm gonna question it immediately, but if you have 100 Str I'm probably not going to. You "want to showcase realistic numbers" which is a very good goal but only showcase a few of them in the help section XD Are ya cruising around with 500 HP? What Fort Bypass do you have? Etc etc.

I agree. This is why I fully acknowledged I was likely forgetting things. Added both an ED section and "THE NUMBERS".
Thanks!
80 Str, but that's with +9 from Primal Scream and Divine Purpose

Not scrolling Tenser's is good enough QoL for me lol. If ya need to you can still scroll it before a boss fight or something if there's a cutscene. I don't think the AC/Damage/crit damage are significant enough to push you either way, personally.

Alright. Good to know I'm not crazy. I felt like that QoL would be enough (and 10% movespeed as well).

A lot of stats come from gearsets (and M/R/curse on them) but also from PL's. There's 36 PRR and 15% Doublestrike available, as easy examples. You can get another 5% DS via VKF for ~9 more racial AP as well on your current split.

I understand this which is why I wanted to get a gauge for what my expectations should be with some of these builds. Optimus Wide was the closest I've seen to numbers in-line with my expectations, but that's one build on a class I don't play (but hope to get around to soon).

For PRR, if you can fit a 2nd Winter piece you'll get +30 Artifact (IoD is profane). Also at an eyeball I don't recognize an item with Ins Sheltering, so that would be another 16ish. Not to say this would be a good option, but Direbear Belt technically covers both.

That's a great point. Using this build, if I bumped the Bone Warhammer to an Attuned Bone Warmahher, than I could swap one of the IoD augments for +14 con, take Direbear Belt, and get that +47/+17 PRR/MRR.

For MRR, if you're ~100 I'd actually consider running Light armor; it costs you ~15 PRR but you can get +10% Dodge, which is a great tradeoff IMO. Otherwise same sorta stuff, Enhancement/Artifact/Insightful are the main three.

I was thinking about that, but my thought process was, "RMM tree needs Med/Heavy armor." Looking back now, I lose Magic Missile Immunity, and that's pretty much it.

For DS, aiming for 70% is a reasonable backup - this puts you at 100% when Reaper boosting; but yeah it's not always easy esp without lots of PL's. So baseline 3% DL, 5% BE, 5% DS Destiny feat = 13%. Devil's w/Duelist (and presuming a Swordcrossed or some other enh) is 37% DS from gear; Fury + Machro + third tree can get ya 15-20% (depending on EDP) and that's ~65-70%?

This is a good point. I mentioned being okay including Augs, and this is a great example of that. Swordcrossed slipped my mind, but it gives an extra 15% putting me at 73% which looks much better.

For MP, filigree are huge. But I think you don't have Enh MP? So maybe you can chuck on a Topaz of +10 MP for almost free. Purchasable Augments, my most-visited Wiki page...

Yep, +12 MP. I don't know if +10 is easier or more consistent to come by, but that's an easy +10/12 for 208/210.

Do you have an Artifact? At an eyeball I'm not seeing one. Easiest is probably Dino Bone Ring, swap out probs the Hunter's Signet; this frees up a set slot (for eg Winter). Kind of a pain to fill, but can be pretty helpful (free +1 Str by moving the scale from your Gloves over tho). Either way, 3-4 slots for 3-6k feed is a great ROI, and if you do your weapon as well 3-4 slots for 6-10k you can run eg Dreadbringer 4-5 and Treachery 2 (for MP, tactics, bypass, and MP/threat reduction split as needed). That's part of why I wanted to see more stats, Dreadbringer 5 is one of the best sets when your Fort Bypass is mediocre, but it's a bit less impressive if you have 107% before filigree (my usual aim is 100% Fort Bypass, minus any consistent/fast debuffs if I mostly plan on raiding).

I don't. A big part of this was trying to avoid any filigrees whatsoever. But for someone willing to invest a bit more, I think these are great suggestions.

Your tactics definitely feel low to me as well; consider swapping your DL aura to Thraxata's Instinct for like +4 (also morale +Attack is a lot more common in groups FWIW). See if you can pick up +3 or +6 via LD/GMoF? Otherwise gearing more stun/tactics, or more Str is often the easiest method.

I like this suggestion. I just don't know what the Hit bonus thresholds are for the game. Granted, I don't think 154 vs 150 is going to make a big difference whereas for tactical DCs, 92 vs 96 might feel a lot more substantial.
The build does currently have: Stunning, Insightful Stunning (Trance), +3 LD Tactics, +2 Fallen Bond Tactics, +5 DLord Tactics, +1 Fighter PL

Hit ya builder, hit the breakdowns, see what you're missing. Try DDOGearPlanner (link) if you haven't yet for a fast eyeball - it's not perfect but it's very fast.

Great recommendation, and I've tried it, but certain things on it just break (like Crafting on a Gem of Many Facets), so I usually spotcheck once I'm in a happier place with the build.

Getting a set-bonus weapon also helps a bunch, but can def be down the line a bit; but it can save you a lot of gear pain (and they're often pretty good lol). Dino Bone runearm (or Demon Engine, etc etc) for exactly the same reason.

Yeah, Pestle + Demon Engine giving 2pc of 5pc Forbidden Knowledge would make life a lot easier, but I'm actively trying to avoid Raid stuff.

 

[CrimsonCaiman]

Hi @CrimsonCaiman

I am a Melee Arti player from my heart. Playing and improving my own Melee Arti build since 2020. ( click here for the build or check this other caster/melee hybryd arti Yuriku's Titan Artificer Build).

I have a very detailed build guide (feats, enhancement and ED trees, leveling gearsets, cap gear set, and much more) from lvl 1 till cap. Check it for ideas and inspiration for your own build. I pretty much tried everything and tested what is working and what isn't for this playstyle.

• I prefer Vistani tree and kukries over any other wepon because VKF gives you bunch of Melee Power, Utility, boosts which complements the Renegade Mastermake tree and Machrotechnic ED tree as well.

I have seen your Vistani Mach Robot, and it was actually the build that got me through my Artificer PL that I was dreading. Since it was for the Heroic PL, I ran it as Deep Gnome, started at 15, and had a great time with it. I've just seen so many builds super reliant on VKF and wanted something that wasn't.

I'd like to share with you my experience in these topics:

• Leveling
  • As an artificer you heroic level your melee arti as ranged (no ranged feats needed Repeaters are powerful enough without those)
  • I saw you took Construct and Improved Construct Essence feats. That means you will have bad self-heals till you get ICE feat. I normally take CE at lvl 9 and ICE at lvl 13. So that means meleeing under lvl 13 is risky and you can die a lot.
  • If you level up as range with repeater X-bow you dont need heals at all or very seldom. Repeater is very strong at low heroics and from lvl 6-8 depending how you spend your Enhancement points, you have Endless Fusilade which will clear any room, boss etc.
  • So you level up from 1 till lvl 14 as a melee toon but using Repeater X-bow and Battle Enginier tree.

My goal for this is to essentially level AS a Dragonlord with the added perk of trapping self-healing. If I do ranged, then I'm going to commit to some type of Inquisitive Build. I do have self-healing with Second Wind, and I'm not adverse to grabbing a hireling when soloing. I can't take ICE earlier because it needs 12 Arti, and I'm not getting 12 Arti until level 19.

• Reconstruction spell (not the SLA) + Mending Burst from Machrotechnic ED tree are your main source of selfheals. Dont need more.
• DPS: 4 cleave attacks: Rapid Slash/Quick Cutter/WWA/Blessed Blades + if needed Kinetic Discharge with a nice slow eefect + Mighty slam for the mini AOE stun
• Hope this helps you a bit. If you have more questins I am happy to answer if I can

Mending Burst is a good point. I have it, but I didn't want to rely on it too much because of Quick Cutter. That still doesn't address all the other goodies from Scion of Mechanus. It feels like 20 MP vs Repair Spell Power, Crit Damage, Repair AMP, and Fort Bypass. It's clearly better DPS, but I don't know if it's better all-around. Currently, I'm not getting DCs high enough for Dragon's Roar, so I don't think I'll be able to get Mighty Slam high enough to be relevant.

 

[Ying]

Scrolling Tenser's Transformation regularly is a terrible quality of life and should be avoided if you enjoy your sanity. It's for kobold times, a quest end boss, or high skull DOV during the head beatdown phase.

Barbarian splash for sure since you're primarily focusing on leveling.

The difference in AC is negligible. Just play what you prefer. You can perform fine with just about any STR-based THF build doing R1 if you have gear farmed out for it already.

The only gear recommendation I'll make is having a rune arm with explosive shot so you can get breakables easily. Isle of Dread has Ol' Ironsides with that.

 

[CrimsonCaiman]

But the honest question is why artificer? It seems pointless to use artificer as a base on a multiclass MELEE build. Something like dark hunter or even rogue 1 (so 18/1/1) or the 12/6/2 with 2 rogue can give you trapping without taking away from your build or mess your base attack bonus.

Durability is the big reason. There's a lot of Con and RAMP that I get from RMM.
On top of the durability, Dark Hunter or Rogue with 18/1/1 wouldn't have enough trees to invest in and would default to using VKF which is something I was trying to avoid.

 

[Bobbryan2]

Scrolling Tenser's Transformation regularly is a terrible quality of life and should be avoided if you enjoy your sanity. It's for kobold times, a quest end boss, or high skull DOV during the head beatdown phase.

Barbarian splash for sure since you're primarily focusing on leveling.

The difference in AC is negligible. Just play what you prefer. You can perform fine with just about any STR-based THF build doing R1 if you have gear farmed out for it already.

Agree with this, but also... the damage difference isn't even that great as Velah doesn't stack with good hope. I think barbarian is just far and away superior as a core chassis here, but especially for QOL.

 

[Zvdegor]

Scrolling Tenser's Transformation regularly is a terrible quality of life and should be avoided if you enjoy your sanity. It's for kobold times, a quest end boss, or high skull DOV during the head beatdown phase.

Barbarian splash for sure since you're primarily focusing on leveling.

The difference in AC is negligible. Just play what you prefer. You can perform fine with just about any STR-based THF build doing R1 if you have gear farmed out for it already.

The only gear recommendation I'll make is having a rune arm with explosive shot so you can get breakables easily. Isle of Dread has Ol' Ironsides with that.

FYI Spell: Lightning Sphere is perfect for breaking breakables. I prefer that one and not beeing rely on different runearms at different levels. I know runearms dont cost mana but I never had issues with mana management.

 

[kmoustakas]

Durability is the big reason. There's a lot of Con and RAMP that I get from RMM.
On top of the durability, Dark Hunter or Rogue with 18/1/1 wouldn't have enough trees to invest in and would default to using VKF which is something I was trying to avoid.

I had a huge text wall post but I think you're just trying to improve a fun build idea you have and I'm the biggest flowersniffer and filthy casual in the entire game. But it's hard to get pointers for fun builds. You'll get pointers for actual good builds and lots of negativity because fun isn't optimal. Fun builds are fun though! You are not going to be doing any damage in melee with dragonlord splash on artificer because it's counter intuitive and pointless. You'll spend 40% of your ap (31+) on renegade for survivability and that's 40% that contributes 0% to damage so you're already -40%

What I'm trying to bring to life is a dark apostate/dark hunter melee build, possibly with a splash of warlock. Will it be good? No but I have so many past lives and racial AP I'll make it acceptable

 

[Zvdegor]

I had a huge text wall post but I think you're just trying to improve a fun build idea you have and I'm the biggest flowersniffer and filthy casual in the entire game. But it's hard to get pointers for fun builds. You'll get pointers for actual good builds and lots of negativity because fun isn't optimal. Fun builds are fun though! You are not going to be doing any damage in melee with dragonlord splash on artificer because it's counter intuitive and pointless. You'll spend 40% of your ap (31+) on renegade for survivability and that's 40% that contributes 0% to damage so you're already -40%

What I'm trying to bring to life is a dark apostate/dark hunter melee build, possibly with a splash of warlock. Will it be good? No but I have so many past lives and racial AP I'll make it acceptable

That is the power of PLs and Universal trees. It can bring to life any weird and unconventional flavor build.

 

[SpartanKiller13]

I agree. This is why I fully acknowledged I was likely forgetting things. Added both an ED section and "THE NUMBERS".
Thanks!
80 Str, but that's with +9 from Primal Scream and Divine Purpose

At an eyeball this seems low, but you're not raging, using a bunch of clickies, and have no filigree so it's a lot more reasonable. Still, I can't help but feel that more Str would help a bunch.

Alright. Good to know I'm not crazy. I felt like that QoL would be enough (and 10% movespeed as well).

I understand this which is why I wanted to get a gauge for what my expectations should be with some of these builds. Optimus Wide was the closest I've seen to numbers in-line with my expectations, but that's one build on a class I don't play (but hope to get around to soon).

That's a great point. Using this build, if I bumped the Bone Warhammer to an Attuned Bone Warhammer, than I could swap one of the IoD augments for +14 con, take Direbear Belt, and get that +47/+17 PRR/MRR.

I was thinking about that, but my thought process was, "RMM tree needs Med/Heavy armor." Looking back now, I lose Magic Missile Immunity, and that's pretty much it.

QoL is huge for leveling, and worth more than a few percent in most cases IMO (push raids aside, basically).

Yeah, I didn't mention Attuned weaps on the principle that you didn't want raid gear.

I would recommend considering using longswords instead; with KT the crit profile comes out equivalent and they're not as cool, but for a leveling build there are vastly better named longswords (Avenger's Blade > Oathblade > Fellblade). Getting +threat range on a DL build feels incredible, and missing out on that feels bad IMO.

MM immunity is mandatory, however shield/nightshield clickies are fairly available and can have long durations (Sapphire-Studded Buckles has 3x20mins of Shield lol).

This is a good point. I mentioned being okay including Augs, and this is a great example of that. Swordcrossed slipped my mind, but it gives an extra 15% putting me at 73% which looks much better.

Yep, +12 MP. I don't know if +10 is easier or more consistent to come by, but that's an easy +10/12 for 208/210.

Yeah, +10's are purchasable via Sharn mats vs +12's which are drop only (and weren't dropping for a while, might be fixed now).

Can also get +2% DS or Dodge in T3 of LD, which I would absolutely take over +10 HP from T1 (also feels criminal to not get the scream upgrade, but with 36 HAmp I get it; but with a +50 Sapphire etc...)

Wiki Purchasable Augment page

I don't. A big part of this was trying to avoid any filigrees whatsoever. But for someone willing to invest a bit more, I think these are great suggestions.

I like this suggestion. I just don't know what the Hit bonus thresholds are for the game. Granted, I don't think 154 vs 150 is going to make a big difference whereas for tactical DCs, 92 vs 96 might feel a lot more substantial.
The build does currently have: Stunning, Insightful Stunning (Trance), +3 LD Tactics, +2 Fallen Bond Tactics, +5 DLord Tactics, +1 Fighter PL

Sure, and esp for leveling builds can be hard; but putting 3k SXP into an artifact is easily doable just from the named trash you pull trying to farm this gearset, and even a handful of slots adds up fast. Same with a weapon, just leveling 20-30 you can feed an Oathblade a few k SXP and just grab it at 20 (with an EVoM) for a nice lil' boost.

A 3-slot artifact and 3-slot weapon can be 45 MP easily, assuming you load them with MP rare doubles. Still 33 with just MP common pairs lol.

Great recommendation, and I've tried it, but certain things on it just break (like Crafting on a Gem of Many Facets), so I usually spotcheck once I'm in a happier place with the build.

Yeah, Pestle + Demon Engine giving 2pc of 5pc Forbidden Knowledge would make life a lot easier, but I'm actively trying to avoid Raid stuff.

Yeah, has some flaws but helps a ton for looking at eg MRR and being like "oh yeah I only get +32 MRR from gear, no wonder mine is trash" instead of trying to parse out which bonus you're missing by looking at the builder

Attuned Bone + Bone Runearm same idea, but also raid stuff.

I had a huge text wall post but I think you're just trying to improve a fun build idea you have and I'm the biggest flowersniffer and filthy casual in the entire game. But it's hard to get pointers for fun builds. You'll get pointers for actual good builds and lots of negativity because fun isn't optimal. Fun builds are fun though! You are not going to be doing any damage in melee with dragonlord splash on artificer because it's counter intuitive and pointless. You'll spend 40% of your ap (31+) on renegade for survivability and that's 40% that contributes 0% to damage so you're already -40%

What I'm trying to bring to life is a dark apostate/dark hunter melee build, possibly with a splash of warlock. Will it be good? No but I have so many past lives and racial AP I'll make it acceptable

Easiest way to give pointers there IMO is to just suggest small changes - take this instead of that, move WWA earlier so you can kill packs, don't take Power Critical, etc

Also to clearly state your goals like "I want a mostly Dark Apostate/Dark Hunter melee build, and I really want to TWF with sickles" to get past everyone suggesting "41 VKF + 26 Falconry Wis-max and just don't use your class at all" sorta vibe lol.

 

[kmoustakas]

At an eyeball this seems low, but you're not raging, using a bunch of clickies, and have no filigree so it's a lot more reasonable. Still, I can't help but feel that more Str would help a bunch.

QoL is huge for leveling, and worth more than a few percent in most cases IMO (push raids aside, basically).

Yeah, I didn't mention Attuned weaps on the principle that you didn't want raid gear.

I would recommend considering using longswords instead; with KT the crit profile comes out equivalent and they're not as cool, but for a leveling build there are vastly better named longswords (Avenger's Blade > Oathblade > Fellblade). Getting +threat range on a DL build feels incredible, and missing out on that feels bad IMO.

MM immunity is mandatory, however shield/nightshield clickies are fairly available and can have long durations (Sapphire-Studded Buckles has 3x20mins of Shield lol).

Yeah, +10's are purchasable via Sharn mats vs +12's which are drop only (and weren't dropping for a while, might be fixed now).

Can also get +2% DS or Dodge in T3 of LD, which I would absolutely take over +10 HP from T1 (also feels criminal to not get the scream upgrade, but with 36 HAmp I get it; but with a +50 Sapphire etc...)

Wiki Purchasable Augment page

Sure, and esp for leveling builds can be hard; but putting 3k SXP into an artifact is easily doable just from the named trash you pull trying to farm this gearset, and even a handful of slots adds up fast. Same with a weapon, just leveling 20-30 you can feed an Oathblade a few k SXP and just grab it at 20 (with an EVoM) for a nice lil' boost.

A 3-slot artifact and 3-slot weapon can be 45 MP easily, assuming you load them with MP rare doubles. Still 33 with just MP common pairs lol.

Yeah, has some flaws but helps a ton for looking at eg MRR and being like "oh yeah I only get +32 MRR from gear, no wonder mine is trash" instead of trying to parse out which bonus you're missing by looking at the builder

Attuned Bone + Bone Runearm same idea, but also raid stuff.

Easiest way to give pointers there IMO is to just suggest small changes - take this instead of that, move WWA earlier so you can kill packs, don't take Power Critical, etc

Also to clearly state your goals like "I want a mostly Dark Apostate/Dark Hunter melee build, and I really want to TWF with sickles" to get past everyone suggesting "41 VKF + 26 Falconry Wis-max and just don't use your class at all" sorta vibe lol.

We're gonna end up nerfing vistani and Z will kill us

 

[Zvdegor]

We're gonna end up nerfing vistani and Z will kill us

How can I confirm this without beeing banned???

 

[CrimsonCaiman]

I had a huge text wall post but I think you're just trying to improve a fun build idea you have and I'm the biggest flowersniffer and filthy casual in the entire game. But it's hard to get pointers for fun builds. You'll get pointers for actual good builds and lots of negativity because fun isn't optimal. Fun builds are fun though! You are not going to be doing any damage in melee with dragonlord splash on artificer because it's counter intuitive and pointless. You'll spend 40% of your ap (31+) on renegade for survivability and that's 40% that contributes 0% to damage so you're already -40%

I mean, I don't need the entire spiel about, "Max DPS is always 41 APs in Vistani... so just make sure you take Vistani capstone first, then figure everything else out," but if there are suggestions that accomplish some of the goals I set forth, I'd love to hear them.

I was heading out the door when I responded to your comment earlier, so it wasn't fully fleshed out. I was also just wrong from strictly a durability perspective. From a damage/tactics/durability perspective, I completely understand doing an 18/1/1. I'd get Melee Power Aura (7 Melee Power if I'm reading everything correctly), +2 Tactics DCs, +1 Aura Bonus, +2 Imbue Dice, and +10 Melee Power. Assuming I spend the extra APs in Stalwart (which gets risky if I ever join raids because of threat gen), I'm +6 STR, -2 CON, +25 PRR/MRR, and have 2 Stats left over (pump to +8 STR or make the tradeoff -0 CON).

A big part of the build I lose out on is Self-Heals (ish... because Aasimar, but that's limited). That's fine if I'm always grouping, and I'd probably be all over a build like that if I'm running with friends/family, but not having that capability for soloing without hirelings can be problematic in certain quests (or in raids). For most of the leveling process, it's not too big a deal, but hitting epics, it feels miserable IMO.

Now that I've listed everything out, is losing self-healing worth all that... maybe. It's a lot. Again, my big concern would be stepping into L VoD or E Zawabi's and not being able to finish it.

 

[CrimsonCaiman]

Yeah, I didn't mention Attuned weaps on the principle that you didn't want raid gear.

An interesting option that I forgot is that the Ol' Reliable exists and gives set bonus without being a raid weapon. So, at the cost of having just a much worse weapon, we could fit in those set bonuses. Is it worth having a much worse weapon? I'm not sure, but it is an option.

I would recommend considering using longswords instead; with KT the crit profile comes out equivalent and they're not as cool, but for a leveling build there are vastly better named longswords (Avenger's Blade > Oathblade > Fellblade). Getting +threat range on a DL build feels incredible, and missing out on that feels bad IMO.

Does it come out equivalent? I'm looking at Nightforge Avenger Blade vs Nightforge Hammer

• Base: 17-20 x2 | 20 x4
• Dlord: 17-20 x4 | 20 x6
• Knight's Training: 17-20 x5 | 18-20 x6
• Avg Multiplier: 1.8 vs 1.75

Maybe once you add imp. crit...

• Improved Crit + Dlord: 13-20 x4 | 19-20 x6
• Knight's Training: 13-20 x5 | 17-20 x6
• Avg. Mult: 2.6 vs 2

... Alright, point taken. Warhammers are so much worse even though I thought I was maximizing range bonus and mult bonus

MM immunity is mandatory, however shield/nightshield clickies are fairly available and can have long durations (Sapphire-Studded Buckles has 3x20mins of Shield lol).

Shhh, fewer clickies/swaps. Let me enjoy playing instead of having an entire to-do list every 5 minutes.

Can also get +2% DS or Dodge in T3 of LD, which I would absolutely take over +10 HP from T1 (also feels criminal to not get the scream upgrade, but with 36 HAmp I get it; but with a +50 Sapphire etc...)

The T3 in LD over the 10 HP is a great suggestion. Personally, I'm leaning towards the Dodge (currently at 17 capped from 21, so bumping that would be nice). I even shifted 2% DS over from Fury to get an extra point in there to make it 21/21 dodge.

Honestly, I was considering that. Even still, +57 Sapphire has me at 96 HAMP. Granted, at that point, I shouldn't be taking the passive heal from Embrace the Pain either and should just take something like Fury of the Wild Sense Weakness for 6% Fort Bypass or something.

Sure, and esp for leveling builds can be hard; but putting 3k SXP into an artifact is easily doable just from the named trash you pull trying to farm this gearset, and even a handful of slots adds up fast. Same with a weapon, just leveling 20-30 you can feed an Oathblade a few k SXP and just grab it at 20 (with an EVoM) for a nice lil' boost.

That's a good point. If I'm ever doing more than one life that uses a Longsword (for example), then investing in the Oathblade I have lying around isn't a bad idea. When I run the build, I'll likely do this and use your subsequent suggestions about filigrees to pump things a little bit without FULLY investing into it.

Easiest way to give pointers there IMO is to just suggest small changes - take this instead of that, move WWA earlier so you can kill packs, don't take Power Critical, etc

WWA ASAP all day e'rry day.

 

[CrimsonCaiman]

How can I confirm this without beeing banned???

Vistani Knife Fighting is SO bad that people don't even take the COMBAT style when dual-wielding.
I gotchu.

 

[SpartanKiller13]

I mean, I don't need the entire spiel about, "Max DPS is always 41 APs in Vistani... so just make sure you take Vistani capstone first, then figure everything else out," but if there are suggestions that accomplish some of the goals I set forth, I'd love to hear them.

I don't think this is true very often much anymore, many of the previous niches have better options now (like even Barb which was one of the worst offenders got FB capstone fixed so I think it's better than VKF capstone now?).

An interesting option that I forgot is that the Ol' Reliable exists and gives set bonus without being a raid weapon. So, at the cost of having just a much worse weapon, we could fit in those set bonuses. Is it worth having a much worse weapon? I'm not sure, but it is an option.

Oh wow, yeah you're right that is technically an option. I would recommend never doing that unless you have some flavor reason TBH. Dino bone sticks are pretty nuts, LGS procs are huge even ignoring Meltfang etc.

Does it come out equivalent? I'm looking at Nightforge Avenger Blade vs Nightforge Hammer

For base weapons, once you have ICrit + KT:

• Longsword 17-20/x3 (19-20 doubled, x2 +1 KT)
• Battleaxe 17-20/x3 (20 doubled +2 KT/IC, x3)
• Warhammer 17-20/x3 (20 doubled +2 KT, x3)
• Morningstar/Heavy Mace 17-20/x2 (20 doubled +2 KT, x2) - these are trash without Scourge for +1 multi (17-20/x3 then)

Then you add on your Competence bonus (and Patience at endgame), in this case +2 multi (+3 w/P), making them all 17-20/x5, x6 w/P.

The difference is longswords have Nightforge/Oathblade/Fellblade all w/+2 range, vs Nightforge Hammer with +1 Multi... If it was +2 Multi it'd be equivalent, however I recommend +Range for leveling so you overkill less - however +Multi is better with most crit-boosting active attacks like QC (which has +4 range) so there'd be an argument if Nightforge Hammer was your endgame XD.

There's Drow X as well, but longswords have the whole progression (and DoJ is a very soloable raid even if you hate grouping).

... Alright, point taken. Warhammers are so much worse even though I thought I was maximizing range bonus and mult bonus

Endgame Fellblade is the highest level KT weapon with a full crit bonus, and I don't think it competes with like Dino etc ([w] drop is huge, let alone debuffs). Pestle having +1 on 19-20 comes out ahead purely on crit profile, but with the significant drawback of no debuffs lol.

Shhh, fewer clickies/swaps. Let me enjoy playing instead of having an entire to-do list every 5 minutes.

Yeah, just use once at start of quest and forget lol.

The T3 in LD over the 10 HP is a great suggestion. Personally, I'm leaning towards the Dodge (currently at 17 capped from 21, so bumping that would be nice). I even shifted 2% DS over from Fury to get an extra point in there to make it 21/21 dodge.

Dodge is really really good, but many things are better than +10 HP (although HP is good too XD).

Honestly, I was considering that. Even still, +57 Sapphire has me at 96 HAMP. Granted, at that point, I shouldn't be taking the passive heal from Embrace the Pain either and should just take something like Fury of the Wild Sense Weakness for 6% Fort Bypass or something.

That's a good point. If I'm ever doing more than one life that uses a Longsword (for example), then investing in the Oathblade I have lying around isn't a bad idea. When I run the build, I'll likely do this and use your subsequent suggestions about filigrees to pump things a little bit without FULLY investing into it.

Free sentient gem every life from RL, trash commons & some sentience destroyers mean you can maintain set bonus on EVoM etc as well, doesn't have to be a 10-slot to get +10% DPS or something lol (starting with ~200 MP, that's ~30 MP).

 

[Kmn]

Lowest hanging fruit: Debuffs.

Swap that Icehorn augment for Melthorn. -35 enemy PRR buffs your damage by 53%, which is more than the 50% you get from helpless. It has a much higher proc rate and it works on bosses.

Adding the 4-piece Shattered Device filigree set makes it -45 PRR / +80% damage