Make Monks Better

[Torm]

The premise is to make the monk class worthy of all specs and play styles right now it is significantly lacking for tanking. My suggestion is to remove the Magical Resistance Rating Cap completely. In order to balance such a great buff, monk movement speed should be changed to an enhancement bonus.

 

[Balegdah]

asking for monk buffs in the big 26 is wild

 

[Uska]

Magic comes from a fundamental force woven into reality called the Weave. What is Ki? "It's just energy bro" The entire concept of the Monk fighting style is quite silly and feels out of place in D&D. The other fighting styles are based on realistic and deadly combat, not theatrics.

less silly than magic

 

[Uska]

Magic comes from a fundamental force woven into reality called the Weave. What is Ki? "It's just energy bro" The entire concept of the Monk fighting style is quite silly and feels out of place in D&D. The other fighting styles are based on realistic and deadly combat, not theatrics.

less silly than maguc

I feel like the acronym is too close to a political one. Not comfortable at all seeing it, since the other post was locked, it would be without saying this one should be too

I think you're a bit too serious and seeing something political where it isn't

 

[f1b041b3]

Even as is though, standing on the airship (i.e. non-reaper and minimal self-buffs), she has 232 PRR, 108 MRR, 40% or better dodge depending on the stance - water stance pushes it to 50+ in reaper with active bonuses running, and 36% unbuffed elemental absorption in the off-stance elements and 52% in the stance element without swapping in any absorption gear.

Now break down the sources of your mrr cap bonuses so we can see what was sacrificed, and then show me how to get similar numbers on a cloth user that isn't a monk (without losing a lot of dps).

The rare legendary solar augment is probably the least punishing route for cloth to approaching 100 mrr at cap, if you can get one, and even then you'll still have to give up something significant just to use a fraction of the mrr you've already earned.

 

[Kimbere]

Now break down the sources of your mrr cap bonuses so we can see what was sacrificed, and then show me how to get similar numbers on a cloth user that isn't a monk (without losing a lot of dps).

The rare legendary solar augment is probably the least punishing route for cloth to approaching 100 mrr at cap, if you can get one, and even then you'll still have to give up something significant just to use a fraction of the mrr you've already earned.

How to tell me you didn’t read my post without telling me you didn’t read my post.

Secondly, this is a monk thread. Non-monk whataboutism threads are that’s way —>

 

[KirThalos Ravencrest]

less silly than maguc

I think you're a bit too serious and seeing something political where it isn't

Why did the title then? Moving the goal posts

 

[f1b041b3]

How to tell me you didn’t read my post without telling me you didn’t read my post.

Secondly, this is a monk thread. Non-monk whataboutism threads are that’s way —>

Yeah, I did read your post. If you don't want to break down the sources of your cap bonuses so we can see what you gave up to get to 108mrr, which is still low for recent endgame content at high reaper, then just say so. With the stats you posted, it looks like you're at least 50 melee power short of where a first lifer can be with a reasonable gearset. Your standing elemental absorption is easily obtainable for any class. Your dodge is fine but, nevertheless, this is an mrr cap thread. Non-mrr cap whataboutism threads are that way —>.

 

[Kimbere]

Yeah, I did read your post. If you don't want to break down the sources of your cap bonuses so we can see what you gave up to get to 108mrr, which is still low for recent endgame content at high reaper, then just say so. With the stats you posted, it looks like you're at least 50 melee power short of where a first lifer can be with a reasonable gearset. Your standing elemental absorption is easily obtainable for any class. Your dodge is fine but, nevertheless, this is an mrr cap thread. Non-mrr cap whataboutism threads are that way —>.

Nope. You didn't read it and now you're moving the goalposts.

 

[Misadventure]

Originally the point of monk in d&d is the higher the level of the monk, the more "god like" he/she becomes.
By cap they are suppose to be demigod like.

Note this was before Prr/Mrr was a thing.

Thus the higher the level of the monk, the more Ac, spell resistance and all sort of resistance he gets naturally. Cap level monk can laugh at a mind flayer trying to get in his brain, have a staring contest with a beholder.

So to put it in a current context, monk should get Prr and Mrr naturally outside the Prr/Mrr cap.

A cap monk should be able to tank better then a barbarian, hit a good as a fighter, have skills that seem to rival wizards, have skills that seem druid like, dance with traps as well as a rogue, heal almost as well as clerics.

 

[f1b041b3]

Nope. You didn't read it and now you're moving the goalposts.

The op stated he believes monks shouldn't be subject to the mrr cap, and I argued that the cap shouldn't exist at all which I feel is still on topic. If you wish to keep the topic purely to just the cap as it relates to monks, then my argument remains unchanged. Showing me a first life monk that's achieved what's still less than mediocre mrr at the cost of also having mediocre dps is not a particularly compelling argument. Also considering that monks have a number of abilities better suited for tanking and have historically been used as tanks in some situations, I don't see the problem in dropping the cap so that people like the op can do some light tanking. At the very least, a pure monk should get a feat at 20 allowing them to "transcend" the cap. They shouldn't have to go deep into Grandmaster just to raise their mrr to something not entirely laughable.

 

[f1b041b3]

A cap monk should be able to tank better then a barbarian, hit a good as a fighter, have skills that seem to rival wizards, have skills that seem druid like, dance with traps as well as a rogue, heal almost as well as clerics.

They can't be equal to or better than everything - there has to be some balance. Also, everything's better than a wizard.

 

[Uska]

Why did you change the title then? Moving the goal posts, so classic of that party to do <3

I didn't change any title what are you babbling about

 

[Misadventure]

They can't be equal to or better than everything - there has to be some balance. Also, everything's better than a wizard.

Well in d&d a monk at cap is almost a transended being. They almost like demigods.

 

[Bravgji]

Monks make no sense in this game, they should be removed. Go punch a bear and see what happens, go throw a dagger at a bear and see what happens.

You can say this about any other martial, though. You can't take down a grilzzy with a sword either. Have you thought about this for more than 2 seconds?

 

[Misadventure]

You can say this about any other martial, though. You can't take down a grilzzy with a sword either. Have you thought about this for more than 2 seconds?

 

[Kimbere]

Originally the point of monk in d&d is the higher the level of the monk, the more "god like" he/she becomes.
By cap they are suppose to be demigod like.

Note this was before Prr/Mrr was a thing.

Thus the higher the level of the monk, the more Ac, spell resistance and all sort of resistance he gets naturally. Cap level monk can laugh at a mind flayer trying to get in his brain, have a staring contest with a beholder.

So to put it in a current context, monk should get Prr and Mrr naturally outside the Prr/Mrr cap.

A cap monk should be able to tank better then a barbarian, hit a good as a fighter, have skills that seem to rival wizards, have skills that seem druid like, dance with traps as well as a rogue, heal almost as well as clerics.

You left out, "And get complained about on the forums for beating pugs on kill counts more than Inquisitives."

 

[Bravgji]

I think Monk is pretty good as it is. But not all of the "concepts" of Monk are good.

In one of these threads, I think Earth Stance was mentioned. Why does this exist? Sure, it's meant to be a tanking stance, but I don't think Monk has enough threat generation to be a good tank. Or PRR. Or AC (so the AC bonus is useless). Or HP.

I think the concept of a Monk tank wielding a QStaff is pretty cool, using Ki to activate defensives and Ki Shouts. I'm not sure if it's possible to tank as Monk with that, but there is a justified lack of incentives stopping people from trying.

I also find it interesting that some abilities are Wisdom exclusive, and others can use STR/DEX/WIS. Why is that? Currently, there is no reason to do STR or a DEX melee monk. Meme builds excluded.

All that said... casters are in a worse state that any other class. So I wouldn't mind if SSG pushed the idea of "perfecting" monk (as if that'd ever happen, anyway) for later.

 

[Bravgji]

Sorry, Earth Stance was mentioned here a couple of times. But yeah. It needs a reason to exist.

 

[Misadventure]

I think Monk is pretty good as it is. But not all of the "concepts" of Monk are good.

In one of these threads, I think Earth Stance was mentioned. Why does this exist? Sure, it's meant to be a tanking stance, but I don't think Monk has enough threat generation to be a good tank. Or PRR. Or AC (so the AC bonus is useless). Or HP.

I think the concept of a Monk tank wielding a QStaff is pretty cool, using Ki to activate defensives and Ki Shouts. I'm not sure if it's possible to tank as Monk with that, but there is a justified lack of incentives stopping people from trying.

I also find it interesting that some abilities are Wisdom exclusive, and others can use STR/DEX/WIS. Why is that? Currently, there is no reason to do STR or a DEX melee monk. Meme builds excluded.

All that said... casters are in a worse state that any other class. So I wouldn't mind if SSG pushed the idea of "perfecting" monk (as if that'd ever happen, anyway) for later.

Monks are whats called evasion tanks, they not suppose to take hits but avoid hits while holding aggro.

Obviously in our game this is not happening. The point of being a glass cannon is not to take hits while dishing out big hits.

But can this happen on 30ish raid R10? No way in hell.

 

[Bravgji]

Monks are whats called evasion tanks, they not suppose to take hits but avoid hits while holding aggro.

Obviously in our game this is not happening. The point of being a glass cannon is not to take hits while dishing out big hits.

But can this happen on 30ish raid R10? No way in hell.

Yeah, currently Earth has very little reason to exist, other than being a meme stance.