Concavenator
Well-known member
i might try 41 van and 31 SD. i been playing monk for too long cant live without some speed and leap/shield charge
Mechgraber's Endgame Paladin
- Thread starter Mechgraber
- Start date
Sehenry033
Well-known member
I know this is a bit to ask, but would you change much if you were going hardcore first life 32pt build with a focus on surviving hits more then dps?
I will be doing most content on elite, only a little on R1 or R2, but champ casters hit hard as do reapers. Would you keep the same race? I was thinking of giving this a try but just lvling with 1h/shield for safety reasons, was even thinking of going dwarf for extra health and dwarven axe.
Thoughts?
I will be doing most content on elite, only a little on R1 or R2, but champ casters hit hard as do reapers. Would you keep the same race? I was thinking of giving this a try but just lvling with 1h/shield for safety reasons, was even thinking of going dwarf for extra health and dwarven axe.
Thoughts?
Sehenry033
Well-known member
I just thought of something, can I even get dwarven axes as favored weapons for pally? If not then scratch dwarf I guess
unbongwah
Well-known member
Dwarf racial tree, costs 12 APs. Also gives +15% Strikethrough.
Sehenry033
Well-known member
Thanks, now would I have enough points to spend 12 in dwarf and also get the KnotC and Vanguard stuff. I could live without Vistani if needed.
unbongwah
Well-known member
Not on a first-life build without compromise. E.g. 41 KotC / 12 dwarf / 8 Vistani / 21 Vanguard is doable with +2 AP's worth of tomes.
Mechgraber
Well-known member
Yea I think Unbongwah nailed it, that AP split looks good. That being said, if you have to drop Vistani haste boost for KoTC melee power boost because you don't want to drop a tome on the project...eh, not the end of the world IMO.
That or going Sacred Defender instead of Vanguard, +15AC/PRR on an action boost isn't bad at low levels either, especially on top of the stance. Plus better saves, extra LOH and AC....good amount of survivability there. So 41 KoTC 21 SD 14 Dwarf (grabbing the Radiant forcefield 25% damage reduction) then last 4 wherever (probably tier 4 SD movement speed or more str/con) would work, too.
That or going Sacred Defender instead of Vanguard, +15AC/PRR on an action boost isn't bad at low levels either, especially on top of the stance. Plus better saves, extra LOH and AC....good amount of survivability there. So 41 KoTC 21 SD 14 Dwarf (grabbing the Radiant forcefield 25% damage reduction) then last 4 wherever (probably tier 4 SD movement speed or more str/con) would work, too.
unbongwah
Well-known member
BTW if you're not wedded to S&B, have a look at Hammatimes' dwarf paladin. SWF is higher DPS than S&B; and not needing to go heavy into Vanguard gives you more flexibility with APs after spending 41 KotC / 14 dwarf. The only tricky thing on a first life might be the stat split, since it needs DEX 13 for Precision, STR & CHA for melee DPS, enough INT for skill points, and then some CON for not dying.
you briefly mentioned a fighter version. I wonder what split would be good 36 DL for the crit profile\roar \haste boost\trance\ 41 stalwalt\ 6 vistani for deflect)(no Vg for obvious reasons) your thoughts @Mechgraber
Mechgraber
Well-known member
Looks pretty reasonable. DL tier 5s are very strong, but the cores of stalwart are probably better. And taking 41 points but no tier 5s in stalwart isn't that painful like in some trees, there are lots of good stuff in there.
Ultimately I went with paladin for more self healing, better saves, energy drain immunity and great restos, that kind of stuff. Just a lot of little things that added up.
Ultimately I went with paladin for more self healing, better saves, energy drain immunity and great restos, that kind of stuff. Just a lot of little things that added up.
Have you considered Palisade large shield for boss fights, instead of fallen tower, as another debuff can be crafted?
Mechgraber
Well-known member
Yes, but personally I run with a few accounts typically, so have just about all of them covered, short of some more niche warlock/monk/shadowdancer ones. But if soloing then yea that could take the place of the fallen tower, putting ooze on it for -10 PRR on top of the -35 PRR from dust. Fallen tower gets you a bit more AC and profane HP, but Palisade gets you more dodge so might be better in some circumstances.
Against trash, guardbreaking is still superior IMO, and you don't want a buckler or small shield, so Golden age it is, as the Lamordia one doesn't have 15% HP.
Just found this thread. Thanks for the very detailed write-up and discussion for this build.
I wonder for a 1st lifer or anyone without the points in racial tree, how bad is it to go with Longsword & Shield? I supposed dps goes down the gutter without Two-handed Specialty, or is it still viable?
Edit: for context, i already hv a dwarf pally sitting at lvl 20 on an Alt account, 1st life so no racial points to make dwarven axe as favoured weapon. I could burn a feat to take Bastardsword proficiency then make it favoured through Divine Crusader (guess Human is better then Dwarf here, but toon is alrdy Dwarf). So i wonder, just how bad if Longsword & Board... since Strikethrough is essentially a non-issue as we have enough AoE attacks, but single target wise, Longsword with Knight's Training (free granted in KoTC) have a much better crit profile. Of-cos we're only scaling our ability mod by 10% and missing another 50% without Two-handed Specialty.
So putting aside the CC effects of Ingition (this alt don't hv any runes yet), and comparing the Dino weapon for boss beatdown, how much worst you reckon is Longsword (much better crit profile) vs Bastard sword (+50% scaling with Two-Handed Specialty)?
I wonder for a 1st lifer or anyone without the points in racial tree, how bad is it to go with Longsword & Shield? I supposed dps goes down the gutter without Two-handed Specialty, or is it still viable?
Edit: for context, i already hv a dwarf pally sitting at lvl 20 on an Alt account, 1st life so no racial points to make dwarven axe as favoured weapon. I could burn a feat to take Bastardsword proficiency then make it favoured through Divine Crusader (guess Human is better then Dwarf here, but toon is alrdy Dwarf). So i wonder, just how bad if Longsword & Board... since Strikethrough is essentially a non-issue as we have enough AoE attacks, but single target wise, Longsword with Knight's Training (free granted in KoTC) have a much better crit profile. Of-cos we're only scaling our ability mod by 10% and missing another 50% without Two-handed Specialty.
So putting aside the CC effects of Ingition (this alt don't hv any runes yet), and comparing the Dino weapon for boss beatdown, how much worst you reckon is Longsword (much better crit profile) vs Bastard sword (+50% scaling with Two-Handed Specialty)?
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Also, since you mentioned that Shield Bash is limited by the animation CD, and forms only a tiny fraction of overall dps, is it better if we skip Impv ShieldBash (not sure how much it really affect dps), freeing the feat to take Precision in heroic, thus gaining an Epic Feat?
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Mechgraber
Well-known member
Glad you liked the write-up! I haven't tried longsword on this particular build, but my gut instinct is that it would be noticeably inferior. You do get AOE from the cleaves and whatnot, but strikethrough is still handy. And ignition is worth raiding for, FOM is ran often and is about as fast as raids get, if you use bypass timers you can reasonably expect to get it in a day or two. With 2 para procs when upgraded and salt, it's probably the best CC weapon in the game, and you don't really get much CC otherwise. Against bosses, longsword would hold up very well though.
Shield bash does get diminishing returns, so going from 0-20% is actually a decent chunk of DPS, 20-40% is still a pretty good investment, 40-60% it starts to fall off, and beyond 60% it's probably not worth the investment. I'd probably drop quicken instead, it's less needed than I originally thought, occasionally might get your raises disrupted which sucks but not the end of the world, as that's not typically your job in combat, and you can often just time things around taking damage.
Unfortunately you do need 11 APs (I think) in the dwarf tree to get favored weapon. If you had a couple of RP you can dump vistani for it, but overall probably best to burn a feat on bastard swords and keep haste boost. Your clan might be disappointed, but just tell the elders they should have granted favored weapon status for free.
Shield bash does get diminishing returns, so going from 0-20% is actually a decent chunk of DPS, 20-40% is still a pretty good investment, 40-60% it starts to fall off, and beyond 60% it's probably not worth the investment. I'd probably drop quicken instead, it's less needed than I originally thought, occasionally might get your raises disrupted which sucks but not the end of the world, as that's not typically your job in combat, and you can often just time things around taking damage.
Unfortunately you do need 11 APs (I think) in the dwarf tree to get favored weapon. If you had a couple of RP you can dump vistani for it, but overall probably best to burn a feat on bastard swords and keep haste boost. Your clan might be disappointed, but just tell the elders they should have granted favored weapon status for free.
Thanks Mechgraber for ur comments. Reason why im a little skeptical with Shield Bash is because when i tried it previously (albeit briefly), the hitbox was EXTREMELY small. Like i can be standing right there swinging my sword to break crates and boxes, and the sword will connect and break crates as normal, but the auto Shield Bash will swing but will not even hit the crates. It is very annoying because i was alrdy standing very close. It was the main reason i gave up any hope on shield bashing being useful. But since you still highly recommend it, i might give it another go, but not sure if there's something im missing that resulted in such a small hitbox that it almost not connect with anything at all.
As for the Longsword vs Bastardsword, think I'll just go with Bastard. I may try to convinced myself that Longsword have a better criit profile, but deep down, I know im just gimping myself, lolz. So just gonna burn feats for it.
Thanks again for giving ur advice on this
As for the Longsword vs Bastardsword, think I'll just go with Bastard. I may try to convinced myself that Longsword have a better criit profile, but deep down, I know im just gimping myself, lolz. So just gonna burn feats for it.
Thanks again for giving ur advice on this
Sarlona Raiding
Well-known member
I tr'd my vanguard to an arcane trickster a few months, but with the new legendary strength of arms feat I am looking to swap back to vanguard soon.
I am thinking shifter for the temp hp to synergize with legendary stength of arms, but am still noodling on it.
If I recall my shifter could use slas and lay on hands when raged, but not spells like cure serious sounds.
Anyhow, I am thinking legendary strength of arms is a big buff for vanguard, but maybe I am wearing rose-colored glasses.
I am thinking shifter for the temp hp to synergize with legendary stength of arms, but am still noodling on it.
If I recall my shifter could use slas and lay on hands when raged, but not spells like cure serious sounds.
Anyhow, I am thinking legendary strength of arms is a big buff for vanguard, but maybe I am wearing rose-colored glasses.
Mechgraber
Well-known member
Updates with, well, the update. Bit of a gear rework, and snagging a couple of feats.
Level 36 feat is legendary strength of arms, with a previous feat swapped out for epic strength of arms. I picked overwhelming critical, but quicken, patience or epic damage reduction could all realistically be on the chopping block as well. With 3 procs getting up over 2k temp hp for just slapping someone...is just too good to pass up.
I put a bit of a premium on fortification, putting points into Bulk Up in DC and Brace for Impact in US. Situationally (relentless, solo hunt, etc), sitting in the mid 400s is better than low 300s.
A few very nice items in the xpac drove a bit of a reworking. The Legendary Abyssal Compass with insightful AND quality sheltering (both MRR and PRR) along with legendary demonic shield (seems to stack with a demonheart emerald, btw) is looking quite alluring, so the katra trinket is OUT. The Katra set is still pretty darn good though...so the Katra helm is IN! Goodbye Sun's Wrath Helm, your crown of summer isn't quite cutting it anymore.
The Legendary Six-Blade Belt with doublestrike, insightful doublestrike and quality doublestrike is in, that extra 14% doublestrike is better than ram's might from Legendary Agarta's Belt.
Ring, thought about getting the The Band of Binding, but I heard fairly disappointing things about the proc rate so made a deal with a devil and slipped on Baphomet's Reign. Not bringing a ton to the table as the 15% hp and quality sheltering are already accounted for, but it'll do. MD ring might be a decent option here now that Sterling has made them actually attainable. Yeenoghu's Reign looks pretty good, too, especially if going the rage healing route.
Necklace, storna's is out as it was really only providing +3 profane well-rounded, so in goes the Legendary Glabrezu Claw Pendant.
Also slotted in Dusk Raider and replaced the melee power gem with solar healing amp, sitting at nearly 500% amp IS silly...but it's also cool. 10% Elemental Absorp isn't a bad shout either, just feels equally superfluous with the boots of season's warding still on and fairly high MRR.
Can season the gear to taste a bit, obviously. Large shields are definitely viable. If you don't have the armor/bracers from MD you can go with the Legendary Duergarcraft Plate or Lamordian Armor for the fort (can put con there to save an aug) and then Goristro-Hide Bracers or Bodysnatcher's Bracers.
Also reworked filigrees a bit (all rare except shattered device)
City's Bacon procs fairly often, so the new raid double filigree is a nice option. The big downside was that it just didn't have many good filigree options (Intelligence? Trip? really??) so being able to double up on raid filigrees then slap in a melee power for the +20 MRR/PRR procs is nice. They proc regularly, if you quick cutter a pack of mobs you're probably getting both buffs, and even against solo targets they're up probably half the time. Prowess is out, 50 melee power isn't what it used to be, and only for 10 seconds? Not good enough.
Could also go with The Blood Feast/Frozen Wanderer for a constant +12 PRR and +1 con, but I prefer the +4 str, +5 heal amp with a chance at the +20 PRR/MRR procs. The Nystul's Mystical Defense/Electrocution route for +20 MRR then slotting in 2 more electrocution filigrees for the sheath is also reasonable, but I use a second artifact with a full 4 filigree electrocution swap as it's a bit situational. Having 80%+ elec absorb and 300+ MRR does trivialize some otherwise potentially deadly situations (MA floors, Kor Kaza, RotS, etc)
Epic Destiny points didn't really change much. Filled in a bit more of Fury and DC. Have been Tier 5 US for a while now, the extra HP, AOE lay on hands and 10k temp boost is quite nice. They really need to add the ability to select a 4th tree. It's quite nice for lower past life builds though, can pick up more without feeling like you're sacrificing something major like primal scream heals or quick cutter damage.
Still plays well. Just shy of 500 PRR (well over with procs), over 300 MRR with nice absorbs, mid 300s melee power, +215 attack mod, ~100-120 saves, ~400 AC (not really a main focus, won't do much at endgame or against raid bosses), low 7000s hp, 468% amp, 100% doublestrike and 120% fort bypass. Primal roar heal can hit for almost 10k in town, over 10k if you've recently shown some demons a good time.
Happy Hunting!
Level 36 feat is legendary strength of arms, with a previous feat swapped out for epic strength of arms. I picked overwhelming critical, but quicken, patience or epic damage reduction could all realistically be on the chopping block as well. With 3 procs getting up over 2k temp hp for just slapping someone...is just too good to pass up.
I put a bit of a premium on fortification, putting points into Bulk Up in DC and Brace for Impact in US. Situationally (relentless, solo hunt, etc), sitting in the mid 400s is better than low 300s.
A few very nice items in the xpac drove a bit of a reworking. The Legendary Abyssal Compass with insightful AND quality sheltering (both MRR and PRR) along with legendary demonic shield (seems to stack with a demonheart emerald, btw) is looking quite alluring, so the katra trinket is OUT. The Katra set is still pretty darn good though...so the Katra helm is IN! Goodbye Sun's Wrath Helm, your crown of summer isn't quite cutting it anymore.
The Legendary Six-Blade Belt with doublestrike, insightful doublestrike and quality doublestrike is in, that extra 14% doublestrike is better than ram's might from Legendary Agarta's Belt.
Ring, thought about getting the The Band of Binding, but I heard fairly disappointing things about the proc rate so made a deal with a devil and slipped on Baphomet's Reign. Not bringing a ton to the table as the 15% hp and quality sheltering are already accounted for, but it'll do. MD ring might be a decent option here now that Sterling has made them actually attainable. Yeenoghu's Reign looks pretty good, too, especially if going the rage healing route.
Necklace, storna's is out as it was really only providing +3 profane well-rounded, so in goes the Legendary Glabrezu Claw Pendant.
Also slotted in Dusk Raider and replaced the melee power gem with solar healing amp, sitting at nearly 500% amp IS silly...but it's also cool. 10% Elemental Absorp isn't a bad shout either, just feels equally superfluous with the boots of season's warding still on and fairly high MRR.
| SLOT | Aug 1 | Aug 2 | Aug 3 | Solar/Lunar | |
| Belt: | Six-Blade /w qual str | Damage +11 | Ins cha +5 | Lunar PRR | |
| Boots: | Greaves of Seasons Warding | Dethek Essence | Paragon Guard | Lunar Heal Amp | |
| Gloves: | Maenya's Iron Fists | Festive str +2 | Con +14 | ||
| Bracers: | Battlerager | Melee Power | Dusk Raider | Lunar Melee Power | |
| Helmet: | Teraza's Perfect Sight | Litany Essence | Festive con +2 | ||
| Necklace: | Glabrezu Claw Pendant /w ins con | Accuracy +24 | Dusk Raider | Lunar MRR | |
| Trinket: | Legendary Abyssal Compass | Natural Armor +14 | Dusk Raider | Solar Doublestrike | |
| Goggles: | Goggles of the Berserker | Imbue Dice +1 | Paragon Guard | Solar MRR | |
| Cloak: | Warblade | False Life +60 | True Imp Blood | Solar Fort Bypass | |
| Armor: | Crownblade Heavy | Amp +57 | Paragon Guard | Solar Healing Amp | |
| Ring 1: | Katra's Razor Wit | Riposte +6 | Swiftness +15% | ||
| Ring 2: | Baphomet's Reign | Demonheart | Ravil's | Twins Essence | |
| Weapon: | Attuned Bone Bastard Sword | Deconstructor | Ruby of Acid | ||
| Shield: | Fallen Tower | Eye of Lamannia | Meridian Fragment |
Can season the gear to taste a bit, obviously. Large shields are definitely viable. If you don't have the armor/bracers from MD you can go with the Legendary Duergarcraft Plate or Lamordian Armor for the fort (can put con there to save an aug) and then Goristro-Hide Bracers or Bodysnatcher's Bracers.
Also reworked filigrees a bit (all rare except shattered device)
| Sword (10) | Ring (5) |
| Bravery/Shattered | Bravery/Shattered |
| Sucker/Many | Sucker/Many |
| Purity/Touch of Grace | Purity/Touch of Grace |
| Shattered MP | |
| Shattered Str | |
| Bacon/Step | Bacon/Step |
| Dread MP | Dread MP |
| Bacon Melee Power | |
| Dread PRR | |
| Dread Str |
City's Bacon procs fairly often, so the new raid double filigree is a nice option. The big downside was that it just didn't have many good filigree options (Intelligence? Trip? really??) so being able to double up on raid filigrees then slap in a melee power for the +20 MRR/PRR procs is nice. They proc regularly, if you quick cutter a pack of mobs you're probably getting both buffs, and even against solo targets they're up probably half the time. Prowess is out, 50 melee power isn't what it used to be, and only for 10 seconds? Not good enough.
Could also go with The Blood Feast/Frozen Wanderer for a constant +12 PRR and +1 con, but I prefer the +4 str, +5 heal amp with a chance at the +20 PRR/MRR procs. The Nystul's Mystical Defense/Electrocution route for +20 MRR then slotting in 2 more electrocution filigrees for the sheath is also reasonable, but I use a second artifact with a full 4 filigree electrocution swap as it's a bit situational. Having 80%+ elec absorb and 300+ MRR does trivialize some otherwise potentially deadly situations (MA floors, Kor Kaza, RotS, etc)
Epic Destiny points didn't really change much. Filled in a bit more of Fury and DC. Have been Tier 5 US for a while now, the extra HP, AOE lay on hands and 10k temp boost is quite nice. They really need to add the ability to select a 4th tree. It's quite nice for lower past life builds though, can pick up more without feeling like you're sacrificing something major like primal scream heals or quick cutter damage.
Still plays well. Just shy of 500 PRR (well over with procs), over 300 MRR with nice absorbs, mid 300s melee power, +215 attack mod, ~100-120 saves, ~400 AC (not really a main focus, won't do much at endgame or against raid bosses), low 7000s hp, 468% amp, 100% doublestrike and 120% fort bypass. Primal roar heal can hit for almost 10k in town, over 10k if you've recently shown some demons a good time.
Happy Hunting!
Mechgraber
Well-known member
You aren't, it's good! And yea layering on temp hp procs is one of the better high skull survival strategies, most stack quite nicely.