Melee vs. Caster Single-target DPS Test

[Rockcrusher]

I'd like to see a real-world example of the single-target DPS (melee vs caster) disparity that everyone is yelling about. Here's the test:

1) Go to the Lamordia warehouse (solo so HP is consistent) where Experiment Y lives.
2) Buff, etc. and note the starting time upon your first attack.
3) When Experiment Y is dead, mark the time completed in seconds
4) Reply to this post with your level, class split, and time.

The results assume a relatively lag-free experience and yes, this is just one specific monster type.
I mainly run casters so I'd be curious what well-geared melees can do. My own results on two caster classes are similar:

Level 34 Fire Sorc: 65-70 seconds with an average of about 80 seconds.
Level 34 Druid: 65-70 seconds with an average of about 80 seconds

 

[magaiti]

I like how your mean is outside the range of measured values

 

[rabidfox]

It's HP likely varies like any mob, so times will be different. Really have to do math based off initial hp too.

 

[Frieling Slyhand]

I would think this experiment would be better either way a purple name rare from MD or IOD as it takes longer and be a better measure.

 

[DBZ]

I'm sure the wise one they call jing has all the numbers you need just look at the purple times

 

[Smokewolf]

I'd like to see a real-world example of the single-target DPS (melee vs caster) disparity that everyone is yelling about. Here's the test:

1) Go to the Lamordia warehouse (solo so HP is consistent) where Experiment Y lives.
2) Buff, etc. and note the starting time upon your first attack.
3) When Experiment Y is dead, mark the time completed in seconds
4) Reply to this post with your level, class split, and time.

The results assume a relatively lag-free experience and yes, this is just one specific monster type.
I mainly run casters so I'd be curious what well-geared melees can do. My own results on two caster classes are similar:

Level 34 Fire Sorc: 65-70 seconds with an average of about 80 seconds.
Level 34 Druid: 65-70 seconds with an average of about 80 seconds

I wont even attempt this with a well geared DC Wizard, as It will take 2+ minutes to kill it, while dodging attacks. Now if this were a construct, I'd have ZERO chance of killing it before going OOM.

Note: Unbuffed in Reaper, my Finger DC is 127, but can be boosted to 136 as needed. While this isn't super high, it reliable for R10's. Unless dealing with massive amounts of constructs (or constructs that look like undead), in which case I'll chain CC'n them till the party can finish them off. This is far from ideal, but consider that the "other" spells I could use are all capped Heroics ones. That are 100% going to be ignored by R10's mobs. Which kinda kills the main advantage Wizards have in DDO, spell diversity as generalists.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

Hp is far to low for this to be an accurate dps test. Caster dps takes a while to fully ramp up whereas melee and especially ranged is front loaded.
I just did ~40 seconds on my sorc, but any good ranged build is going to delete in <20. Yegora in Myth dranor is a much better target.

 

[Raedier]

This is an interesting idea however there are several key factors to consider.

- What are we even testing for? Burst damage or sustained dps?

- Can the casters in question use wellspring/revelers/timestop? Results may vary wildly and these are limited abilities.

- Any times tested on Legendary Normal would take 33% longer in r10.

- How many debuffs are we using?

- How many weapon swaps and BiS gear are we using?

- What is the skill of the player behind the keyboard?

- Any caster dps tests done with DoV raid weapons or magma will be likely be irrelevant due to the way that DoT stacking works.

Also it's hardly caster vs melee, it's repeater/xbow/shuri and a few melee splits vs the rest.

 

[Raedier]

I don't think there's much values to be had out of testing without discussing the abovementioned pointers first but here i go.

Tested on experiment Y as i don't have the teleport for Yeghora unlocked yet.

Pure barbarian lvl 34
1.6mil hp in 23 seconds (no epic moment)
1.7mil hp in 17 seconds (dreadnought epic moment)
Tests were both done without scrolls or pots.

 

[Rockcrusher]

Yes, this is just a simple, generalized test. For those that want more, look elsewhere.

 

[EinarMal]

I am back at cap on my Stormsinger, gave it a go. This is all buffs, so Turn the Tide, Night Revels cloak, and Wellspring. I forgot to write down the exact hit points.

Chaosmancer Stormsinger 20 (Level 34)
~35s

This will show how ridiculous the R7+ penalty is on spells. Casters do about half the DPS (at best) of melee/ranged BEFORE the high reaper penalty on spells.

 

[Raedier]

I am back at cap on my Stormsinger, gave it a go. This is all buffs, so Turn the Tide, Night Revels cloak, and Wellspring. I forgot to write down the exact hit points.

Chaosmancer Stormsinger 20 (Level 34)
~35s

This will show how ridiculous the R7+ penalty is on spells. Casters do about half the DPS (at best) of melee/ranged BEFORE the high reaper penalty on spells.

My barb build doesnt even do 70% of a top ranged build so there's that.

 

[Rockcrusher]

I am back at cap on my Stormsinger, gave it a go. This is all buffs, so Turn the Tide, Night Revels cloak, and Wellspring. I forgot to write down the exact hit points.

Chaosmancer Stormsinger 20 (Level 34)
~35s

This will show how ridiculous the R7+ penalty is on spells. Casters do about half the DPS (at best) of melee/ranged BEFORE the high reaper penalty on spells.

I'm curious since I haven't played a chaosmancer, but I've played a Stormsinger. Did the chaosmancer portion give you better DPS or was it all stormsinger abilities, debuffs, vulnerability, etc.?

 

[minamber]

That's not a great test imo, I for one haven't bought Lamordia yet in protest at SSG's inaction on lag, rare loot and balance issues.

Much better to find a target in a more widely available pack, preferably with high hp and little variance. I'm not familiar enough with endgame raids to make a recommendation but it should be possible to find a red-named isolated mob at the start in one of those.

 

[Raedier]

That's not a great test imo, I for one haven't bought Lamordia yet in protest at SSG's inaction on lag, rare loot and balance issues.

Much better to find a target in a more widely available pack, preferably with high hp and little variance. I'm not familiar enough with endgame raids to make a recommendation but it should be possible to find a red-named isolated mob at the start in one of those.

Instead of regurgitating what has been said already, why don't you hop over to said isolated mob and give us your findings?

 

[EinarMal]

I'm curious since I haven't played a chaosmancer, but I've played a Stormsinger. Did the chaosmancer portion give you better DPS or was it all stormsinger abilities, debuffs, vulnerability, etc.?

Mostly for the stip of lightning immunity, which is a big part of the DPS with mantle, lightning procs, and thunderstroke. You get a boost to spell power when you use your leap (limited to 8 charges if you have all the PL).

Stormsinger is a lot better than people think if you actually build it out properly. The main issue is with the current state of casters, it's a king of **** mountain problem.

 

[DBZ]

I'm curious since I haven't played a chaosmancer, but I've played a Stormsinger. Did the chaosmancer portion give you better DPS or was it all stormsinger abilities, debuffs, vulnerability, etc.?

Its insanely expensive with trade offs

 

[Rockcrusher]

Mostly for the stip of lightning immunity, which is a big part of the DPS with mantle, lightning procs, and thunderstroke. You get a boost to spell power when you use your leap (limited to 8 charges if you have all the PL).

Stormsinger is a lot better than people think if you actually build it out properly. The main issue is with the current state of casters, it's a king of **** mountain problem.

Thanks. I've played stormsinger and liked it quite a bit. A well-geared stormsinger in our guild was not able to break 60s on the challenge so was surprised on the ~35s. Nice.

 

[Gruben]

my first life monk thrower kills him in about 90 seconds but he has lower hp once youre on ransack so cant really test rn

 

[Drachmor]

“Yes, this is just a simple, generalized test. For those that want more, look elsewhere.”

level, class split and time being the only data points here is a bit *too* general to be useful. I could say Barb, 34, x, and I could say Barb, 34, 10x, and both would make sense depending on very different barbs you could build (and gearsets, past lives, boosts, skill of the player, etc.)

Also, while I have zero issue with a test like this on its own (as long as it’s done with more consistency), I would caution anyone who attempts to use this data to derive meaningful conclusions about the actual state of balance between melee and casters (which, as someone pointed out - why isn’t ranged a part of this equation?)

Because dps - on this one target -could only give a very, very narrow view on the actual effectiveness of a build