Memoirs of an Illusory Larcener Content Permanently Removed

Tanis

Tanis

Well-known member
Cordovan said:
The quest was built in a way to experiment with placing rooms into your location rather than sending you to other places, so a lot of the "teleporting" that takes place isn't you teleporting elsewhere in a space but rather the space building itself around your location. It was an interesting idea that was done by a designer at the time for a free quest with the idea that it could present interesting storytelling design opportunities in the future, but in practice it ended up being somewhat of a technical mess as players are well aware.
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Yes it was bad
 
Mornyngstar

Mornyngstar

Well-known member
Fae said:
Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it. How many times have we been told "this will fix the lag issues" when in fact it did not? How many times have we been told "this will fix the lag issues" and it did in fact fix it? Going with historical facts and history that cannot be re-written a reasonable person would conclude that this will in fact not fix the lag. Time will tell. I hope I am wrong.
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The sources of lag is many and varied which equates it to "Death by a thousand cuts". Cormyr (as stated in Fridays at Four with Tolero")
@4:24 Tolero “So I finally found out a good way to talk about this since it is the Night Revels season. The best way to think about lag on the server is if you think about it like a jar of candy, right, and I’ll see if I can get this up close enough for you to see here. Imagine that all these different colors represent all the different kinds of lag that you can have in the server, right. There can be Server lag. There can be Network lag. There can be Client Side lag and each of these things can be caused by lots of different circumstances.

Now imagine that the yellow and the oranges ones in here are lag that’s caused by, a server, the server itself being non-performant or just being overwhelmed and let’s say that the lag that’s caused on the client side like let’s say there’s something wrong in a dungeon for example is the green ones and if I want to try to fix the green ones I got to try to dig through the reports of all the yellow and the orange ones first. Right. So with the 64-bit server now do I not only have fewer candies to dig through. The green ones stand out a lot easier and so now when I’m like hey I get a lag report, what used to happen is the server, the sort of ambient lag we would get would make it really hard to focus fire on what the problem was because the player would give us their location, they give us their character build. We’d go right to that spot and we’d look around and it wouldn’t be happening for us anymore but it was happening for the person at the time they were reporting it.

Um and so. Step one for us was developing a lot of tooling to try to see it better and we sort of had a sense of okay (we) think there’s this ambient layer of problems we need to get rid of. Well once that was gone, what was exciting was during the stress test, when people would say oh I always it’s still laggy for me. I mean even though it’s really good now in many places I’m still getting lag in Best Laid Plans or I’m still getting lag at the end of part one of the shroud or I’m still getting lag when I play this type of build and we could see it. So we could actually go there and be like yep here it is, right here 100% repro and then go to that spot or go to that build and actually see in the logging because we don’t have the sort of noise of all the other stuff because all that’s been cleaned up and go OH.

For example, my Shroud example, there is the fact that there was an invisible volume that was placed in a certain spot that each time a person would pass through it, turns out it was triggering the game to update a whole bunch of data points about Quest givers and quest locations that it really doesn’t need to do but that volume was there and a player would never know it’s there. All they know is every time they go to this one area it’s like man every time you walk up to this spot during this moment after part 1 it always does this big hang and now we’re like YES it’s this, it’s this right here, we’re gonna work on that fix.

So, we have a whole bunch of stuff like that flowing in from the stress test where we’re just going down the list or oh look this one room in Whiteplume Mountain for some reason when you try to go and fight the crayfish in the big multi-layer water room, just, frame rate just crashes. Yeah it turns out there’s too many key lights in there. So all this stuff just got a lot of the noise type lag out of our way so that we can get down to the things that have to be hand fixed because as a hand, you know we really pride ourselves in handmade dungeons. When you make stuff by hand it means you have to go and find some problems by hand too. So getting rid of as much of the systemic things as we can lets us do that so we’re really excited."
(Added paragraphing on the fly so it wasn't a wall of text this time so more people would actually read it.)

IMO for those who say that "They don't care about fixing the Crayfish room in WPM ect, what about fixing lag", it is a process where step by step they are improving the overall environment of the game. Yes, each person has their own view of what needs to be fixed but they are "chewing" thru each candy piece by piece.
 
C

ChaoticDrivel

Well-known member
Should be a lesson in developing a well-thought out, well-tested dungeon, before releasing it.

It had potential. Would prefer if it was redesigned, rather than scrapped altogether. But I understand their perspective.

Add this to the long list of things removed/amended in the name of improving game performance...If it actually made a difference - that is something.

Perhaps they should also remove:

Crystal Cove, Night Revels, the Auction House, Auction sniping, Wheloon, mailboxes, Cannith Crafting, airships, dungeons(!), players, the DDO store, Jacoby Drexelhand, dragons(!!), Cellimas' VA, Shen's robe, Mummy rot, air, Nibbles, ampersands(!!!), talking to Mari Mosshand to get your bags, Coyle, kobolds, the Shamwow guy, ladders, Muck and all its cousins, cousins in general, the launcher, the Ruins of Thunderholme, Sig & Anne Trent as former DDOcast hosts, copper pieces, Grease, Grease clickies, John Travolta, mimics, mimics, spell inscription materials, MyDDO, new Tumble, old Tumble, Keith Baker's influence, Vecna, Velcro, LOTRO, Pluto, Admiral Ackbar, kale, TikTok, eyelashes falling into your eyes, and the Venerated.

Somehow, I bet it will still lag...
 
Mornyngstar

Mornyngstar

Well-known member
Gram said:
Would you consider adding the three Threnal giant cave quests to the quest tracker and assigning them 2/4/6 Free Agent favor each to make up for the permanent loss of the 6/12/18 from Memoirs?
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I disagree. The quests, as is, are a nice quaint surprise and different from other quests. At most, because of length of quest I would think 1,2,3 favor would be justified, and I would like it to be a different faction altogether. I started a thread called A Potential Update detailing my reasons why. (This is just my opinion for a possible improvement to the game.)

It is my hope to add a little more of the "side questing" found in Pen and Paper (PnP) D&D. I do know there are a lot of people that do not like side quests, but I hope that the game is large enough to accommodate more than one playstyle, (said with a grin). As an example, I play a lot of "support style" toons mostly focused on Healing and Buffing, to the point that I keep saying that I should start a guild called "Hero Support". (Well while writing this, I decided to bite the bullet and made the guild on Cormyr.)
 
G

GrizzlyOso

Well-known member
Nerosothe said:
The duality and sheer short sighted nature of this community is baffling. The past two months has seen some of the worst lag spikes in the game's history. While we haven't suffered a near 3 week shutdown of servers like a certain server transfer caused, the lag spikes have brought an unparalleled level of hate towards the devs and their "ability to do their job" unlike anything I've seen in this community.

So here we are, almost a month into cormyr launch, the data gathered by the devs have found a source of absolutely game breaking lag. The devs conclude that the quest is bricking things from the roots up and need to axe it and will move anything of value to another quest. Yet somehow in a game which needs lag fixes asap, the community has the gall to call this as their walk out moment. Holy buddy go outside and take a break for your own health.
Memoirs has only 60% of the xp of a quest of its level and length, super outclassed in terms of loot esp since MD came out, and is already known to be super buggy and can soft lock itself. All in all, the quest is a terrible thing to run; bad xp, below subpar loot, can't even enjoy the story experience cause it hitches on itself.
I absolutely call bull on anyone who has this even in their top 30 ddo quests to run, let alone top 5. There is no way you ran this quest more than once every 3 lives. I'd even wager you didn't even know its been disabled for a week already. If you really love the loot out of here, its still in the game.

All I see here is upset players looking for more to be upset about. Being salty is your right, but this is just not a good take. Devs had to choose between axing dead content or keeping a large source of lag in the game and somehow we are complaining that taking the quest out is a bad move?

in short,
"devs fix lag"
"okay we found a fix, one quest is just absolutely ruining server side performance, any items will be moved, no gear will be lost"
"what?! why would the devs remove this pseudo dead content ??!? they are bad at their job, First the lag now this ??!!!"

Posts like these make me wanna invest in a neck brace so I don't break anything reading such logical whiplash
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You do realize the quest USED to work, for years, right? (I mean, more or less). But it didn’t cripple the servers.

All of these changes, from the outside , seem like individual quest changes. It’s hard to tell how they are really impacting global lag, which seems to have other causes entirely.

So we’re not 2 months into anything , we’re years into things that have only made it all worse and now the “solution” is just axing things left and right and praying, it would seem to the community.

Which again , is because they never actually communicate anything.

My guess is this won’t change global lag at all but BECAUSE of global lag this quest breaks more often so they just axed it. Great work again .
 
Mornyngstar

Mornyngstar

Well-known member
GrizzlyOso said:
You do realize the quest USED to work, for years, right? (I mean, more or less). But it didn’t cripple the servers.

All of these changes, from the outside , seem like individual quest changes. It’s hard to tell how they are really impacting global lag, which seems to have other causes entirely.

So we’re not 2 months into anything , we’re years into things that have only made it all worse and now the “solution” is just axing things left and right and praying, it would seem to the community.

Which again , is because they never actually communicate anything.

My guess is this won’t change global lag at all but BECAUSE of global lag this quest breaks more often so they just axed it. Great work again .
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And for years they had not realized how much this quest has been affecting game performance overall, which came to light because of Cormyr.

Ryiah said:
Someone on Discord asked some questions and got these responses from Tolero:

Concerning performance:
"More like every. single. thing in it hits perf. Even every floor and wall."

Link

Concerning falling through the floor:
"Yeah the core design meant there was just no way to keep THAT issue from happening either. It just had so much wrong we'd literally have to rebuild the entire thing from full scratch. And for what it was trying to do it would end up being a big undertaking. For not a lotta pay off ultimately."

Link
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(Thank you Ryiah, I am still a noob at discord.)
 
Mobius

Mobius

I see what you did there
Lacci said:
Only problem I´ve ever had with this quest was odd hireling behaviour.
They always behaved in that quest like they behave now in every other quest...
Wasn´t the quest already deactivated with the last patch ? That had 0 impact on lag. Just like the changes to repeaters...
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This is true. Some hirelings already struggle with recognizing threat or damage from ranged mobs, but in the Memoirs environment, they absolutely had issues with the quest mechanics.
 
Balvix

Balvix

Well-known member
Nerosothe said:
The duality and sheer short sighted nature of this community is baffling. The past two months has seen some of the worst lag spikes in the game's history. While we haven't suffered a near 3 week shutdown of servers like a certain server transfer caused, the lag spikes have brought an unparalleled level of hate towards the devs and their "ability to do their job" unlike anything I've seen in this community.

So here we are, almost a month into cormyr launch, the data gathered by the devs have found a source of absolutely game breaking lag. The devs conclude that the quest is bricking things from the roots up and need to axe it and will move anything of value to another quest. Yet somehow in a game which needs lag fixes asap, the community has the gall to call this as their walk out moment. Holy buddy go outside and take a break for your own health.
Memoirs has only 60% of the xp of a quest of its level and length, super outclassed in terms of loot esp since MD came out, and is already known to be super buggy and can soft lock itself. All in all, the quest is a terrible thing to run; bad xp, below subpar loot, can't even enjoy the story experience cause it hitches on itself.
I absolutely call bull on anyone who has this even in their top 30 ddo quests to run, let alone top 5. There is no way you ran this quest more than once every 3 lives. I'd even wager you didn't even know its been disabled for a week already. If you really love the loot out of here, its still in the game.

All I see here is upset players looking for more to be upset about. Being salty is your right, but this is just not a good take. Devs had to choose between axing dead content or keeping a large source of lag in the game and somehow we are complaining that taking the quest out is a bad move?

in short,
"devs fix lag"
"okay we found a fix, one quest is just absolutely ruining server side performance, any items will be moved, no gear will be lost"
"what?! why would the devs remove this pseudo dead content ??!? they are bad at their job, First the lag now this ??!!!"

Posts like these make me wanna invest in a neck brace so I don't break anything reading such logical whiplash
Click to expand...
If nobody was running it, then it wouldnt be causing so much lag..................
 
Balvix

Balvix

Well-known member
FaceDancer said:
Glad to hear that items will find a home somewhere else since there were some neat ones in it (they'll probably get the Myth Drannor drop rate treatment though...) 🤭
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I'm not glad about this. Most likely they will be added to the loot tables of a quest that has an item ppl want to farm, further complicating the loot table making the item more difficult to obtain. Maybe they will be added to the Myth Drannor quests that people like to farm for augments.....
 
Balvix

Balvix

Well-known member
Aelonwy said:
Unpopular opinion: I have never liked this quest. Even the basic storyline of the quest wherein the quest giver is basically lying to us, putting us in danger repeatedly, treating us as stupid adventurers... "the most murderous elf that ever murdered"?! The awful, purposely awful graphics, lame storyline, obnoxious narrator, janky mechanics - all sums up to a thoroughly unpleasant quest for me.

I'm sincerely glad that it is being removed, I always felt it reflected poorly on the quality of which they are capable.
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Do you remember the adage, "First they came for (insert something you didn't care about)". While this may not be your favorite quest and you are happy to see it go, other people did enjoy it and ran it almost every day. It was never my favorite quest, but I did enjoy it well enough and ran it multiple times each life, so I am sad to see the loss of a quest due to the devs not wanting to put forth the effort it would take to fix the issues.
 
John3000

John3000

Well-known member
Sniff... The death of a quest is sad day indeed.

In memory of an Illusory Lagcener whose memoir will be forever lost in the portal to forgotten realms. Rightly or wrongly accused of lagceny ? Misunderstood ? Who knows ? All he wanted was a little adventure. Now all his secrets will be buried with him. 😢

RIP Callumnie...

41Oq+ZvalPL._SY466_.jpg
 
Balvix

Balvix

Well-known member
Cordovan said:
The quest was built in a way to experiment with placing rooms into your location rather than sending you to other places, so a lot of the "teleporting" that takes place isn't you teleporting elsewhere in a space but rather the space building itself around your location. It was an interesting idea that was done by a designer at the time for a free quest with the idea that it could present interesting storytelling design opportunities in the future, but in practice it ended up being somewhat of a technical mess as players are well aware.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the clarity here, it makes the loss much easier to absorb.
 
FaceDancer

FaceDancer

Olde Wurm
Balvix said:
I'm not glad about this. Most likely they will be added to the loot tables of a quest that has an item ppl want to farm, further complicating the loot table making the item more difficult to obtain. Maybe they will be added to the Myth Drannor quests that people like to farm for augments.....
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Most likely, maybe, too early to tell. You might be right, you might be wrong. There aren't many levels in that area, but Mired in Kolbolds comes to mind. With that being said, I wouldn't be surprised to see them pocket these items for something yet to be.
 
D

Drachmor

Well-known member
kmoustakas said:
When this quest first came out I really hated. Then it grew on me and it's one of my favourite dailies. I hate to see it go. I understand it has to go.
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Yeah there became something fun about the grouping up, the complete linearity of the story. It was a particularly regulated trial with some distinct moments, like surviving in the cramped space of the tavern, or keeping the group together in the archer setting. Def gonna miss it!
 
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