Monk thrower advice

[Tilomere]

This is Tilo, he has never been stopped by such little things.
And yes, the uncentered monk abomination in leather armor is still a monk. And as Inquisitor it clearly can have better damage output than centered shuri-monk in heroic. 8)

And epic and legendary...

Since you don't have the Ki to run shuriken and NiS abilities anyways, there's no real loss of "monk-ness" simply using cheap ki bolt and free Hand of Healing.

Plus there is a hard cap of 5 shurikens per throw afaik, and you are already there at 100^ doubleshot + 100dex shuriken expertise + 100 dex core 2 NiS + 100% 10k stars + base throw, so the doubleshot abilities in the tree don't do anything half the time anyways. So the abilities you can't afford to use also don't do anything much of the time.

 

[TeachrSyncletica]

IDK, I'd say just 'meditate' on it....

I think the OP's problem is he's concentrating -too- hard on destruction. Ninja's shouldn't aggro. Let your party do that.
And while the enemies are trying to kill your party, they're not aware of you, and Sneak Attack and Seeker bonuses will decimate targets, even if only 1 by 1 until you qualify for Improved Precise Shot at Level 15 and with 19 DEX.

But don't go IPS all the time. That's a good way to die. If you do need to go IPS, never forget your miss-chance defenses. Deflect Arrows (feat or enhancement) with high Dodge, Concealment (Blur, Displacement) combined with your 25% Incorporeality from Shadow Veil makes you pretty hard to hit.

 

[TeachrSyncletica]

No, it's clearly not enough. You need T5 for IAF (+10 passive RP +50 for 10 additional stacks)/Self-defence (+25% HP, +5 MRR/MRR Cap), Deadly Striker for +2 Crit range/+1 Crit multiplier, Shadow Double for +50% DS and +5 Assassinate DS.
And if you run pure monk, C5 add +5SA and +5 Assassinate DC boost and +5 RP/MP, and capstone permanent 5SA more and +15 RP/MP.
Sting of the Ninja is DoA and totally useless without strip poison immunity with 75% mobs in game have resist/immune to poison. 100% scaling is just nail in the coffin. Elemental Soul imbues toggles much more viable and deal much more damage.
And you need at least 13 AP in HM for WIS trance and C3 for 3 more ID.

IPS is pure trap after U45 nerfing, nobody in sane mind don't take it last... four year? Five?
"Seems you meditate in the Void stasis too long, Master..."

You have good points, but it all depends on your playstyle.
I find +3 passive ki more than enough.
But, most importantly, a higher WIS, wearing items with Concentration bonuses ("Focused") such as goggles increase your standing total pool. It's a lot to juggle but never impossible.
My playstyle is more of total effect per average enemy. And you're right with Poison, although fewer enemies are immune to it than, say, fire. I like to add as much damage to the starthrower's stars through quivers and a off-hand. The Snowpeaks Ice Dragon Sword stays effective to encase things in ice even in Epic.
The more aggressive you are, or how the quest must be, the fewer your options in ki replenishment.
Long ago, Vampirism wasn't available on ranged attacks, but now it is. So adding something for ki on ranged attacks should be possible.
I'm not dismissing IPS--a starthrower in Shiradi after mass-blinding a mob, combined with TTS can clear a room well with a strong star--but sustained aggressive play with a starthrower, because of ki and limited action boosts, isn't sustainable.

 

[TeachrSyncletica]

I rely on sneaking and passive ki gen for my 10k stars....... can get passive ki from henshin as well as ninja when sneaking and from using ocean stance when the stance starts granting passive ki regen and max out your CON and concentration

Yes.
All passive ki regeneration effects from any source stack (save one)

Here's all the ki regeneration effects from DDO Wiki's Ki article (I've updated quite a few of these pages over the years). Keep U72's changes in mind as the wiki isn't updated fully and some things might've changed. For a Drow Ninja starthrower, you'll likely to get +4 off this list.

• Stealthy: A Tier 1 Ninja Spy ability. Gain +1 to passive ki regeneration when trained to rank 3 and only when using Sneak.
• Contemplation: A Tier 2 Henshin Mystic ability or Tier 2 Kensei "Ascetic Training". Gain +1 passive ki regeneration when trained to rank 3. (Kensei and Mystic versions are anti-requisites and cannot be stacked.)
• Master or Grand Master Ocean Stance Monk feats: Gain +1 passive ki regeneration.
• Serenity: The last core enhancement at level 20 for Henshin Mystics. Gain +1 passive ki regeneration.
• Way of the Tenacious Badger: A Tier 1 Henshin Mystic animal form. Gain +1 passive ki regeneration when your hit points drop to 50% or less.
• Enlightenment: A Tier 1 Grandmaster of Flowers ability; Gain +1 passive ki regeneration at rank 3.
• Attune: A Tier 3 Tabaxi Trailblazer ability. Gain +1 ki on melee attack and +1 passive ki regeneration.

 

[Leesun]

I think the OP's problem is he's concentrating -too- hard on destruction. Ninja's shouldn't aggro. Let your party do that.

This is an interesting assumption given I never mentioned how I was playing. As stated in the OP I had rolled a 1st life monk to try twf kamas. To add clarity to this matter I would use the shadow veil to turn invisible and slowly walk up to a pack. Once they began rushing towards my hirelings I would wait for the casters/ranged in the pack to begin attacking, then use spring attack to rush past the melee enemies, leaving them for my hirelings, and take out the casters -> ranged. Once dead I would reapply shadow veil and start attacking the melee enemies from the back. Depending on the enemy type this could take a bit, but I never ran into an issue until An Invitation to Dinner. It was at this point I used my lesser heart to reroll into a shuriken-based monk. I thought it prudent to ask advice. The only pure ranged monk I have ever tried was my main with Zen Archery a little over a decade ago, but that was so painful I decided to never do a pure ranged monk again until now, but with shuriken instead of bow.

 

[Rogue]

I do not think stopping in the middle of a fight to sit down is a good idea

I was being punny...

 

[Leesun]

I was being punny...

I apologize for the misunderstanding. I sometimes have trouble discerning such things.

 

[Tilomere]

combined with your 25% Incorporeality from Shadow Veil makes you pretty hard to hit.

I don't think this does anything in reaper mode though due to reduction and due to reapers bypassing it.

At first glance, the NiS tree looks too expensive for a thrower, but once you eliminate all the abilities as not working in reaper/not working at capped DS anyways it falls into picture as affordable ... at cap once you accumulate all the PLs racial points and can sit at cap on a tabaxi trailblazer.

 

[Ying]

I think the OP's problem is he's concentrating -too- hard on destruction. Ninja's shouldn't aggro. Let your party do that.

OP is soloing.

I rolled a 1st life drow for kama twf ninja spy, but found myself hardstuck on An Invitation to Dinner. I used my lh to reroll into a shuri thrower

What everyone so far has failed to tell you: Throwers are the most difficult archetype to level in DDO, especially shuriken. They are severely underpowered in heroic levels. Shuri's power comes from many past lives, epic destinies, and end-game gear. And you're finding out that the devs refuse to support the shuri playstyle by addressing it's ki generation even though we just had a monk revamp.

 

[Tilomere]

The new archtype should make leveling a thrower a breeze. AoE nuke to cap. You just won't have any AoE attacks at cap.

Could go 6 DWS for Head Shot 6 kensai crit multiplier, halfling crit range, and 8 monk. Then you don't need ki for NiS abilities because you don't have them, and it seems like even less of a monk than my inquisitor.

 

[nix]

OP is soloing.


What everyone so far has failed to tell you: Throwers are the most difficult archetype to level in DDO, especially shuriken. They are severely underpowered in heroic levels. Shuri's power comes from many past lives, epic destinies, and end-game gear. And you're finding out that the devs refuse to support the shuri playstyle by addressing it's ki generation even though we just had a monk revamp.

Tricky but fun to play; especially if (like me) you want to trap too. I get by, but then i had a very good teacher to guide me.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

What everyone so far has failed to tell you: Throwers are the most difficult archetype to level in DDO, especially shuriken. They are severely underpowered in heroic levels.

And main advice - never leveling shuri-monk in heroic (leave it for true masochists like myself ), take some nice quarterstaff and go-go-go until Epic. 8)

Reading is hard, i know...

 

[Vox]

I leveled a monk thrower on an alt last year when the attack speed was bugged. It was still rubbish.

 

[Arcalite]

OP is soloing.


What everyone so far has failed to tell you: Throwers are the most difficult archetype to level in DDO, especially shuriken. They are severely underpowered in heroic levels. Shuri's power comes from many past lives, epic destinies, and end-game gear. And you're finding out that the devs refuse to support the shuri playstyle by addressing it's ki generation even though we just had a monk revamp.

Do you have an up to date shuri build my man?

 

[Ying]

I haven't played shuri since Dread was current. You're also gimping yourself playing ranged that isn't Inquis.

 

[Arcalite]

I haven't played shuri since Dread was current. You're also gimping yourself playing ranged that isn't Inquis.

I got a nice +4 mythic raid shuri from threats that I'm dying to use :(

 

[TeachrSyncletica]

I don't think this does anything in reaper mode though due to reduction and due to reapers bypassing it.

At first glance, the NiS tree looks too expensive for a thrower, but once you eliminate all the abilities as not working in reaper/not working at capped DS anyways it falls into picture as affordable ... at cap once you accumulate all the PLs racial points and can sit at cap on a tabaxi trailblazer.

As my starthrowers were based on Firewall's original Shuricannon, no, you need only take a few bits from Ninja Spy, and then use another ranged-amenable tree for more. He didn't have Falconry when he made that build, and it was remarkable back then. Falconry works, maybe Harper Agent a little. People who mix in a bit of Ranger can open up other stuff that might work with any thrown weapon. Shiradi's a given.

 

[Tilomere]

As my starthrowers were based on Firewall's original Shuricannon, no, you need only take a few bits from Ninja Spy, and then use another ranged-amenable tree for more. He didn't have Falconry when he made that build, and it was remarkable back then. Falconry works, maybe Harper Agent a little. People who mix in a bit of Ranger can open up other stuff that might work with any thrown weapon. Shiradi's a given.

Hmm
8 monk 6 ranger DWS 6 Fighter kensai crit multiplier halfling crit range
Uses 10k stars as only ki ability once per minute

16 monk 3 arti 1 fvs inquisitor
Uses ki bolt 10x per minute, and healing ki 5x

Inquisitor seems far more "monk" than stars, even if it isn't centered.

 

[Fisto Mk I]

Inquisitor seems far more "monk" than stars, even if it isn't centered.

It is. But but but... we like stars, not uzi!

 

[Leesun]

Inquisitor seems far more "monk" than stars, even if it isn't centered.

This isn't a John Woo gangster film, we throwing stars not doing gun fu!