Myth Drannor Drop Rates

[Epicsoul]

First off, I want to say that I've really enjoyed the Myth Drannor expansion. The environment is stunning, the cosmetics are fantastic, and the new augment system shows a lot of promise. Most of the quests have been fun, and I appreciate the effort by the developers to put together an overall enjoyable experience.

That said, I have some concerns about the drop rates for rare loot. On elite difficulty, there's a 33% chance to get named loot, followed by a small chance to roll into the rare loot table. However, there are simply too many items in the rare loot table: Golden Age Weapons, Crownblade, Artblade, and Warblade sets, Golden Age shields, and rare augments.

I understand the design philosophy for some items to be incredibly rare—chasing after rare stuff can be exciting (especially if its cosmetics, and I'm one of the rare few that look cool). The Crownblade, Artblade, and Warblade sets, in particular, would make for great rare items that are fun to chase. However, the rest of the items in the rare loot table don’t need to be this difficult to obtain.

To make matters worse, the drop rates from Wilderness raid bosses are extremely low. With only a 10% chance to drop named loot and then another small chance to hit the rare loot table and then another chance to get the item you want, it feels pointless and cruel.

This level of difficulty in acquiring this much rare loot is too much. The fun I had originally is beginning to feel more like apathy. Please, at least consider making all augments from the wilderness raid bosses a regular drop.

 

[TANUKING]

I also think that there should be some kind of remedy for dropping unique items from Wilderness raid bosses.

 

[Mesmerin]

chasing after rare stuff can be exciting (especially if its cosmetics, and I'm one of the rare few that look cool).

I must admit when I get a drop nowadays my first thoughts are usually "does it look good?" before I worry about the stats.
It's not about how hard you hit that Doom. It's how FABULOUS you look while doing so....

 

[Alternative]

When I was hit with the realization that devs put the best items either in "rare" loot tables, or in purple named explo bosses with abyssmal drop rates, I started having major buyers remorse and wanted a refund.

So I put "ddo refunds" into google and the first thing on the list says "No Refunds". So I guess that's that.

 

[Spook]

This is what I would do with the loot:

1) Move the non rare augments to Randall lyric
2) Make the rare augments normal drops
3) Purple named (wilderness) 100% drop rate for non rare item
4) Artifacts to Saga reward list as well as other rare drops (they wont have mythic/reaper so there will still be enough desire to pull from chests)

 

[nenetteblackmoor]

The Crownblade, Artblade, and Warblade sets, in particular, would make for great rare items that are fun to chase. However, the rest of the items in the rare loot table don’t need to be this difficult to obtain.

I've already opened the chest around 200 times,
but I haven't obtained a single piece of gear from that table.

 

[l_remmie]

The chance for the rare loot table is about 5% from gathered data by forumites.
The chance of getting the rare you want from the dragon or wurm is therefor : 0.1 x 0.05 x 0.33 = 0.00165. That is 0.165%, which is 1/600.
Without rerolling the chest that will cost you 85 weeks of ransacking for the basic chance of that 1 item.

Rare drops in most other quests are 0.33 x 0.05 x 0.33 = 0.005445. That is 0.05445% which is roughly 1/185. That is a solid 26 weeks of ransacking.

Most likely you're not going to need just 1 piece for your gear tetris. In fact all the really good gear and augments are all on the rare table. In order to not get just basic odds but good odds to acquire a functioning set you can most likely double, triple or quadruple this time.

This loot system is by far the most predatory and disgusting thing SSG has done. It's an obvious scheme to sell astral shards for rerolls and is absolutely contemptuous to consumers.

It is also in fact illegal in Europe and many other places due to gambling laws and odds that are not public.

This is not just general internet rage at change. This is very specific rage at predatory business practices that are overwhelming and destroying gaming communities everywhere. Whether it is EA, Hasbro/Wotc, Games Workshop or SSG. It is a loathsome trend that needs to stop. We are not "under-monetized" walking wallets the CEO's are entitled too.

 

[Teh_Troll]

I believe our biggest issue is we don't have enough threads complaining about how bad the drop rates are in MD.

 

[Positive thinking]

I believe our biggest issue is we don't have enough threads complaining about how bad the drop rates are in MD.

But some of us are happy that drop rates have been pushed to the rarest of marks so it will keep end gamers busy working and grinding away and spending up their mountain of astral shards and reaources so they can buy more and help the game keep the lights on. As put in another thread the end gamers are trapped in their already existing commitment to the game and the words stockholm syndrome exists, except this drop rate has made them feel like they are upset by their captors. It is all too funny when you look at it from the outside, but this is the new way for MD and probably for more in the future.

 

[Spook]

But some of us are happy that drop rates have been pushed to the rarest of marks so it will keep end gamers busy working and grinding away and spending up their mountain of astral shards and reaources so they can buy more and help the game keep the lights on. As put in another thread the end gamers are trapped in their already existing commitment to the game and the words stockholm syndrome exists, except this drop rate has made them feel like they are upset by their captors. It is all too funny when you look at it from the outside, but this is the new way for MD and probably for more in the future.

Yet some of us "end gamers" dont have stockholm syndrome and havent even bought MD

 

[Teh_Troll]

But some of us are happy that drop rates have been pushed to the rarest of marks so it will keep end gamers busy working and grinding away and spending up their mountain of astral shards and reaources so they can buy more and help the game keep the lights on. As put in another thread the end gamers are trapped in their already existing commitment to the game and the words stockholm syndrome exists, except this drop rate has made them feel like they are upset by their captors. It is all too funny when you look at it from the outside, but this is the new way for MD and probably for more in the future.

Jokes aside . . . this game has been losing me for a while. This may be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

No, you can't have my stuff. I can't pull any loot anyway.

 

[Dandonk]

I believe our biggest issue is we don't have enough threads complaining about how bad the drop rates are in MD.

This is true. Moar threads, pls.

 

[Rusty_helmet]

They don’t care. If they did they’d actually address this. Instead they ignore it mostly because they can’t handle criticism.

 

[rabidfox]

But some of us are happy that drop rates have been pushed to the rarest of marks so it will keep end gamers busy working and grinding away and spending up their mountain of astral shards and reaources so they can buy more and help the game keep the lights on

You're committed to playing permadeath; so SSG should charge 5000 AS every time you die (before you can continue playing on a different character) to keep the lights on. What I just said there is a bad idea, should never be done, and is just to make the point that targeting a playstyle one doesn't do or care about isn't a good thing. You keep stating that "end gamers" should eat this cost and pay more to get the loot they want so SSG can keep their lights on. We're all just playing a game with whatever resources (time, money, AS, etc.) we have available, when the rules change (by lots of gear being made extra rare) for what resources it takes to play the way we have fun people get upset.

I understand the design philosophy for some items to be incredibly rare—chasing after rare stuff can be exciting (especially if its cosmetics, and I'm one of the rare few that look cool). The Crownblade, Artblade, and Warblade sets, in particular, would make for great rare items that are fun to chase. However, the rest of the items in the rare loot table don’t need to be this difficult to obtain.

100% those items (crownblade/etc.) are chase type things to me. While the augments and other stuff are just equivalent to what I'm already getting off Vecna/Dread/Sharn/Fey/etc. sets are not chase items to me; they're basic gear tetris requirements.

 

[Mindos]

Mathematically, drop rates look good... if you want people to be busy for 1 year until the next mini expansion.

 

[Positive thinking]

You're committed to playing permadeath; so SSG should charge 5000 AS every time you die (before you can continue playing on a different character) to keep the lights on. What I just said there is a bad idea, should never be done, and is just to make the point that targeting a playstyle one doesn't do or care about isn't a good thing. You keep stating that "end gamers" should eat this cost and pay more to get the loot they want so SSG can keep their lights on. We're all just playing a game with whatever resources (time, money, AS, etc.) we have available, when the rules change (by lots of gear being made extra rare) for what resources it takes to play the way we have fun people get upset.


100% those items (crownblade/etc.) are chase type things to me. While the augments and other stuff are just equivalent to what I'm already getting off Vecna/Dread/Sharn/Fey/etc. sets are not chase items to me; they're basic gear tetris requirements.

That is a humorous approach at best. Your suggestion would mean all new players to ever play the game would start have their first death and then spend money to even continue to play the game, taking that suggestion and comparing it to the top end game players who have committed thousands of hours playing the game to prep their uber powerful toon with the too end of gear is laughable.

New players have no skin in the game, end game players are being fed intravenously with new potential power and chase it hard to remain at the pinnacle of the game. It is obvious and smart business to know which one of those two spots have money to be made.

As an aside, you play first life toons so you are aware that gear isnt mandatory, so end gamers have the choice simply not to chase the gear but we all know that there are folks that focus on success in this game being their pinnacle moment in life so they will chase it regardless, everyone complained about the cards and SSG folded to put them in Saga’s, I hope SSG doesnt fold here.

And yes i hope this new mechanic eats up the entirety of all the astral shards in the game, good riddens. (Especially the ones on players buying them to buy duped card cleansers, once that source dries up so will the astral shard economy and it will hurt the dupers since SSG cant seem to get rid of them, unless of course it is intentionally created with things like card cleansers so SSG can encourage astral shard purchase). An interesting tin hat concept at the very least, but i believe it would make DDO a more positive experience for many to be rid of the shard exchange.

 

[FVSHasBeenEvenMoreGutted]

remember, if you dont like it dont play it and reasonable drop rates are fiscally irresponsible

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

I am just really glad I purchased a month of vip to get the permanent 15% discovery potions for new characters on 3 accounts. Even with some characters at 25% instead of 10% it still isn't easy to get items in the wilderness.

 

[MrWindupBird]

I believe our biggest issue is we don't have enough threads complaining about how bad the drop rates are in MD.

Genuinely this.

The drop system is clearly working as intended- I'd like to think that this is a consequence of misunderstanding probability rather than greed or malevolence.

Gating gear (especially the building blocks of gearsets like minor artifacts) behind massive lottery RNG is an awful feeling. Do you remember how much the Nebula grind was hated? It was a cool upgrade system that felt awful in practice due to fruitlessly opening literally thousands of chests and being no closer than where you started? A lot of people left DDO at that time. This is demonstrably worse. At least with the Nebula frag you could run the entire chain/expansion- what you were looking for could drop anywhere. Here, if you want something rare, you can expect to run the same single chest, in the same single quest, literally hundreds of times.

That isn't bad luck, that's simple expected value. As mentioned above, the actual drop-rates have been datamined; they're not hypothetical. 33% item drop on elite, 5% chance of that converting to 3-item rare table, 33% chance for specific rare item. Only 50% of people will have gotten the item at 126 runs (that is 4 months of ransacking a single quest- the mind-numbing monotony!), while 10% will still have not gotten it within 420 runs- thats 1 year of constant ransack. For perspective, if all of those runs were r10, it would be 50% drop within 98 runs, and 10% still not having within 324- not that different. And the purple wilderness rares are much worse, due to a lower base drop rate. That is not reasonable, and more importantly in no way is it FUN. Further since there are no safety-nets (raid runes, ingred systems, turn-ins, anything at all), it is always all-or-nothing every time a chest is opened; there is no incremental progression or backstop. This isnt totally true for the rare solar augments since those are tradeable, but is accurate for all the artifacts, and all the crownblade/warblade/artblade items.

I'm not arguing that people are entitled to perfect gear or that everything should be instantly attainable. But this is clearly insanity. Further, we ALREADY HAVE an infinite treadmill for those who need perfect gear- the layered RNG of mythic/reaper/curse bonuses on items exists independently of this (and multiplicatively with this problem in fact). People 100% will leave in frustration due to inability to get foundational items like minor artifacts, myself included.

Now that math is covered, here's some anecdote. I've run the MD chain with guild r10 3 times and r5-8 another 2-3 times. Plus ransacking specific quests r4-8, probably a total of 4 quests ransacked across multiple toons. Most of these have been 3-4 man groups. I have also spent 2500 shards (and will not be spending any more, full stop). I have yet to see a minor artifact for myself, or any of my guildies. That is obscene. It makes me not want to play anymore. And this is coming from someone who has multiple 156+rp toons.

And all this is even more of a shame given that A. it is not a bug, it is a conscious design decision, and B. theres a lot to like about Myth Drannor- the quests are fun, the wilderness is huge and beautiful (albeit a bit empty), the new enemies are great (fang dragons and hook horrors look fantastic), and the Sun/Moon augment system is a good one. But I'm not going to grind it this hard for base items, I'll just find a different game. DDO's strength has always been its community, its active combat system, and its build flexibility and TR system. Turning it into a grindfest means it isn't for me anymore.

Suggestions:
Rare drop table should be 25-35%, not 5%.
Purple tables need to be reworked entirely
Minor artifacts should also have a chance to drop in saga reward, a la Sharn and Fey.

Please don't make this game work- I've played as much as I have because I enjoy it and I don't regret that time, but I'll leave before it becomes a job.

 

[Positive thinking]

Drop rates should be adjusted but in about six months after the top gamers jockey for position and spend many of their astral shard stores and spend more money to get more to be on top. I dont understand why this is such a hard concept to understand, patience change will come after the spending has happened.