Myth Drannor Drop Rates

[Teh_Troll]

It's not bad luck, it's bad game design.

The odds are so bad that the only sane choice is to not bother.

 

[Dandonk]

Yes. The only winning move is not to play.

 

[rabidfox]

Drop rates should be adjusted but in about six months after the top gamers jockey for position and spend many of their astral shard stores and spend more money to get more to be on top. I dont understand why this is such a hard concept to understand, patience change will come after the spending has happened.

And now you've completely lost me. Your view that I should spend extra money to be on top is a bad take that saddens me. I play on the top end because I'm solid player that understands how to play the game well. I don't have unlimited money to toss into sitting at the top; I do have game knowledge and skills (that I share details willing about with others) that lets me play on the high end. I'd appreciate it if you'd stop trying to trying to treat end gamers this way, I'm here to play a game and have fun, not be told I shouldn't play the way I enjoy because you think I should be a cash cow.

 

[Teh_Troll]

Yes. The only winning move is not to play.

I believe we have the new DDO motto . . .

 

[Bowserkoopa]

And now you've completely lost me. Your view that I should spend extra money to be on top is a bad take that saddens me. I play on the top end because I'm solid player that understands how to play the game well. I don't have unlimited money to toss into sitting at the top; I do have game knowledge and skills (that I share details willing about with others) that lets me play on the high end. I'd appreciate it if you'd stop trying to trying to treat end gamers this way, I'm here to play a game and have fun, not be told I shouldn't play the way I enjoy because you think I should be a cash cow.

Don't worry you should also have to pay in Lag to be on a server with more players (aka content) so why not apply it to getting loot, or not getting loot or having a working monster manual too.

 

[Teh_Troll]

And now you've completely lost me. Your view that I should spend extra money to be on top is a bad take that saddens me. I play on the top end because I'm solid player that understands how to play the game well. I don't have unlimited money to toss into sitting at the top; I do have game knowledge and skills (that I share details willing about with others) that lets me play on the high end. I'd appreciate it if you'd stop trying to trying to treat end gamers this way, I'm here to play a game and have fun, not be told I shouldn't play the way I enjoy because you think I should be a cash cow.

I'm an older person with a decent career and low expenses. I've got more disposable income than the average player.

I'm not buying points to continue this madness. I will instead be spending my money on something more useful

 

[Rusty_helmet]

Genuinely this.

The drop system is clearly working as intended- I'd like to think that this is a consequence of misunderstanding probability rather than greed or malevolence.

Gating gear (especially the building blocks of gearsets like minor artifacts) behind massive lottery RNG is an awful feeling. Do you remember how much the Nebula grind was hated? It was a cool upgrade system that felt awful in practice due to fruitlessly opening literally thousands of chests and being no closer than where you started? A lot of people left DDO at that time. This is demonstrably worse. At least with the Nebula frag you could run the entire chain/expansion- what you were looking for could drop anywhere. Here, if you want something rare, you can expect to run the same single chest, in the same single quest, literally hundreds of times.

That isn't bad luck, that's simple expected value. As mentioned above, the actual drop-rates have been datamined; they're not hypothetical. 33% item drop on elite, 5% chance of that converting to 3-item rare table, 33% chance for specific rare item. Only 50% of people will have gotten the item at 126 runs (that is 4 months of ransacking a single quest- the mind-numbing monotony!), while 10% will still have not gotten it within 420 runs- thats 1 year of constant ransack. For perspective, if all of those runs were r10, it would be 50% drop within 98 runs, and 10% still not having within 324- not that different. And the purple wilderness rares are much worse, due to a lower base drop rate. That is not reasonable, and more importantly in no way is it FUN. Further since there are no safety-nets (raid runes, ingred systems, turn-ins, anything at all), it is always all-or-nothing every time a chest is opened; there is no incremental progression or backstop. This isnt totally true for the rare solar augments since those are tradeable, but is accurate for all the artifacts, and all the crownblade/warblade/artblade items.

I'm not arguing that people are entitled to perfect gear or that everything should be instantly attainable. But this is clearly insanity. Further, we ALREADY HAVE an infinite treadmill for those who need perfect gear- the layered RNG of mythic/reaper/curse bonuses on items exists independently of this (and multiplicatively with this problem in fact). People 100% will leave in frustration due to inability to get foundational items like minor artifacts, myself included.

Now that math is covered, here's some anecdote. I've run the MD chain with guild r10 3 times and r5-8 another 2-3 times. Plus ransacking specific quests r4-8, probably a total of 4 quests ransacked across multiple toons. Most of these have been 3-4 man groups. I have also spent 2500 shards (and will not be spending any more, full stop). I have yet to see a minor artifact for myself, or any of my guildies. That is obscene. It makes me not want to play anymore. And this is coming from someone who has multiple 156+rp toons.

And all this is even more of a shame given that A. it is not a bug, it is a conscious design decision, and B. theres a lot to like about Myth Drannor- the quests are fun, the wilderness is huge and beautiful (albeit a bit empty), the new enemies are great (fang dragons and hook horrors look fantastic), and the Sun/Moon augment system is a good one. But I'm not going to grind it this hard for base items, I'll just find a different game. DDO's strength has always been its community, its active combat system, and its build flexibility and TR system. Turning it into a grindfest means it isn't for me anymore.

Suggestions:
Rare drop table should be 25-35%, not 5%.
Purple tables need to be reworked entirely
Minor artifacts should also have a chance to drop in saga reward, a la Sharn and Fey.

Please don't make this game work- I've played as much as I have because I enjoy it and I don't regret that time, but I'll leave before it becomes a job.

Artifacts seem to have the same drop rate as nebula. Stupid.

 

[Positive thinking]

And now you've completely lost me. Your view that I should spend extra money to be on top is a bad take that saddens me. I play on the top end because I'm solid player that understands how to play the game well. I don't have unlimited money to toss into sitting at the top; I do have game knowledge and skills (that I share details willing about with others) that lets me play on the high end. I'd appreciate it if you'd stop trying to trying to treat end gamers this way, I'm here to play a game and have fun, not be told I shouldn't play the way I enjoy because you think I should be a cash cow.

I am an not treating end gamers in any way, i am an simply agreeing with the way SSG has released MD so that end gamers that have all the bells and whistles and nothing left to chase and are stock piling resources to use on every new content released can be put into a position where the must use up the stock piled resources and spend money to stay at the very front end of the game. In my view if you were playing the game for fun you would not care so much for ever piece of gear being within your grasp as quickly as possible and you would play the content and get the gear whenever it happens to drop, of course thats just my view, it is in no way telling you how to play.

Play the game however you want, but i will continue to believe that those that are pushing the very limit of the game and need the gear power to do such should be the best place for the game to make money.

Of course for me, they get me with cosmetics and they could definitely get me to spend there.

 

[PraetorPlato]

I am an not treating end gamers in any way, i am an simply agreeing with the way SSG has released MD so that end gamers that have all the bells and whistles and nothing left to chase and are stock piling resources to use on every new content released can be put into a position where the must use up the stock piled resources and spend money to stay at the very front end of the game. In my view if you were playing the game for fun you would not care so much for ever piece of gear being within your grasp as quickly as possible and you would play the content and get the gear whenever it happens to drop, of course thats just my view, it is in no way telling you how to play.

Play the game however you want, but i will continue to believe that those that are pushing the very limit of the game and need the gear power to do such should be the best place for the game to make money.

Of course for me, they get me with cosmetics and they could definitely get me to spend there.

I think if they were to do this, they should do it on boosted gear, not base gear. It's really annoying when you can't pass the gear set you're using to someone else looking to play a similar build because some of the items are incredibly rare to get (and makes it much harder for newer players to make effective endgame gearsets, because they can’t copy the endgame gearsets established players are using)

 

[Kritikal]

If they're not going to increase the drop rate (which they won't), they should, at least, make us want to run optionals and put their abysmal drop rates onto those chests as well (which they won't).

Oh well...

 

[Rusty_helmet]

I am an not treating end gamers in any way, i am an simply agreeing with the way SSG has released MD so that end gamers that have all the bells and whistles and nothing left to chase and are stock piling resources to use on every new content released can be put into a position where the must use up the stock piled resources and spend money to stay at the very front end of the game. In my view if you were playing the game for fun you would not care so much for ever piece of gear being within your grasp as quickly as possible and you would play the content and get the gear whenever it happens to drop, of course thats just my view, it is in no way telling you how to play.

Play the game however you want, but i will continue to believe that those that are pushing the very limit of the game and need the gear power to do such should be the best place for the game to make money.

Of course for me, they get me with cosmetics and they could definitely get me to spend there.

Thanks for mansplaining it to all if us end game players. I now know how I’m supposed to think in all of this. I appreciate it because I could not figure out my own thoughts and you were so good to do it for me.

 

[Teh_Troll]

As a non-mammal I'm offended my the term "mansplaining."

 

[Mesmerin]

Drop rates should be adjusted but in about six months after the top gamers jockey for position and spend many of their astral shard stores and spend more money to get more to be on top. I dont understand why this is such a hard concept to understand, patience change will come after the spending has happened.

You really are quite something. Is everyone else in SUPERMEGAPERMADEATHCAPSLOCK guild this charming or is it just your special brand of sunshine?

 

[Oliphant]

I feel like we already have a bunch of high functioning gear sets so there's no big crisis if the rares are rare. Loot is part of why people will show up to your lfms, if all of it is easy to get fewer people will be playing. Consider specifically not urgently chasing the rares.

p.s If they up the chances I'm fine with it.

 

[Positive thinking]

You really are quite something. Is everyone else in SUPERMEGAPERMADEATHCAPSLOCK guild this charming or is it just your special brand of sunshine?

Thank you, I am charming and a special ray of sunshine, so yes feel free to come join in on the permadeath fun.

 

[Rusty_helmet]

Thank you, I am charming and a special ray of sunshine, so yes feel free to come join in on the permadeath fun.

Glad to see that the expansion has the stamp of approval from the .1% of the playerbase that can’t live long enough to ever actually run it. Considering you could play your style using only free this play quests it is not surprising that you have no clue how the game remains operating.

 

[AMess]

But some of us are happy that drop rates have been pushed to the rarest of marks so it will keep end gamers busy working and grinding away and spending up their mountain of astral shards and reaources so they can buy more and help the game keep the lights on. As put in another thread the end gamers are trapped in their already existing commitment to the game and the words stockholm syndrome exists, except this drop rate has made them feel like they are upset by their captors. It is all too funny when you look at it from the outside

You've posited a theory that end gamers are trapped, while addiction may be true in some cases, addicts will move on when the drugs they have access to don't get them high.

And oi vey, the supposition that we as a community are benefiting off of folks with psychological issues is rough.

 

[Positive thinking]

Glad to see that the expansion has the stamp of approval from the .1% of the playerbase that can’t live long enough to ever actually run it. Considering you could play your style using only free this play quests it is not surprising that you have no clue how the game remains operating.

Yes it has my stamp of approval, and yes i have already played Myth Drannor. There is no need to get emotional about it or over compensate with attempted attacks. I understand we have different positions on the new content, you are welcome to yours.

 

[Positive thinking]

You've posited a theory that end gamers are trapped, while addiction may be true in some cases, addicts will move on when the drugs they have access to don't get them high.

And oi vey, the supposition that we as a community are benefiting off of folks with psychological issues is rough.

Addiction is a very strong word and not one that I used.

 

[Teh_Troll]

I feel like we already have a bunch of high functioning gear sets so there's no big crisis if the rares are rare. Loot is part of why people will show up to your lfms, if all of it is easy to get fewer people will be playing. Consider specifically not urgently chasing the rares.

Wrong. If the chance of pulling loot is so low it's not worth the bother people won't bother.

You're on Orien, right? How my MD LFMs do you see? We're one week old and the MD LFMs are dryer than what my sex life was in high school.