New Bug - horrid/unplayable lag sets in (seemingly out of nowhere)

[Ethril]

The problem is timers though. There are too many timers on DDO. Elixirs have a timer, raids have a timer, chest ransack have timers, character buffs have timers, summons have timers, even quests have timers.

That's a good point and tracking those things as well as firing off events, I suspect, would use a considerable amount of resources (even if it is a small overall percentage).

I've played a number of other games where, instead of potions that gave extra xp over time, the potion just granted a set amount. This is similar to how the saga rewards and dice rolls work. I realize that would only increase the "pay to win" feel, but it would potentially cut down on system resources as well as alleviating the feeling of wasting money on a potion that is counting down while lagging or running to a quest in a wilderness.

 

[Ryiah]

That's a good point and tracking those things as well as firing off events, I suspect, would use a considerable amount of resources (even if it is a small overall percentage).

Maybe if you were running on a Commodore 64. A few hundred timers multiplied by a few thousand users is completely insignificant. They're spending more resources just running a single dungeon with enemies running around calculating physics than all of the timers across every server.

 

[Ethril]

Maybe if you were running on a Commodore 64. A few hundred timers multiplied by a few thousand users is completely insignificant.

It wouldn't be completely insignificant. All sources of resource creep magnify each other. So, reducing any of them would yield an improvement.

 

[Ryiah]

It wouldn't be completely insignificant. All sources of resource creep magnify each other. So, reducing any of them would yield an improvement.

Timers would have to be written in a completely asinine way for them to have a meaningful impact, and having encountered some of the developers from Turbine who built the framework these games are running on I'm confident it's not written that way.

 

[Ethril]

Unless they implemented it in an incredibly bad way it's completely insignificant.

As a software engineer of over 25 years, I disagree. It would definitely compound matters if free resource limits are already being reached.

 

[Ryiah]

As a software engineer of over 25 years, I disagree. It would definitely compound matters if free resource limits are already being reached.

As a software engineer of over 29 years, I'm going to stand by what I said. It's dependent on how they implemented it.

 

[Tyrande]

Maybe if you were running on a Commodore 64. A few hundred timers multiplied by a few thousand users is completely insignificant. They're spending more resources just running a single dungeon with enemies running around calculating physics than all of the timers across every server.

Isn't that computed on the client though? I thought the client handles all the graphics work calculations. The server tells it where the character is at.

 

[Ryiah]

Isn't that computed on the client though? I thought the client handles all the graphics work calculations. The server tells it where the character is at.

To be honest I'm not positive of everything they're computing on the client versus the server. For example arrows can sometimes appear to be out of sync with the bow animations, and sometimes spells become out of sync with the visual of the timer on the client.

Movement is definitely client-side prediction (ie client says "I'm moving here" and server pings back with corrections on an as needed basis which can cause a rubber-banding effect). I don't know how much that extends to the rest of the game. I have to imagine the actions would be the same but I no longer have a slow connection to verify how those behave. I'm currently sitting at around 15ms latency to the server.

 

[Ethril]

Isn't that computed on the client though? I thought the client handles all the graphics work calculations. The server tells it where the character is at.

Without seeing the code, or a dev weighing in, it would be speculation to say either way. I suspect that a lot of things that could be handled in the client are probably done at the server level for some reason (such as keeping the client requirements lower).

However, a more important reason to do that on the server would be to avoid exploits. For instance, if XP potion timers were figured in client-side, it would be possible to patch the code to make them never expire. Granted that would be a massive TOS violation, but would - from a technical standpoint - be possible since the server wouldn't know how much time was remaining.

 

[Ryiah]

However, a more important reason to do that on the server would be to avoid exploits.

Cordovan made a comment (I believe it was one of the latest livestreams) that they recently closed an exploit (he didn't use that term but he suggested that's what it was) in one of the patches. It's possible that might have had unintended consequences.

 

[DDO Gaming]

They're preparing to launch a new server not transition the existing servers to new hardware. The existing servers won't be getting upgraded or be moved to the new data center. The idea is that they will eventually enable full character transfers off of them for free to the new servers.

I have no idea what that means. I was refering to: transitioning the various software systems onto the new hardware servers. hence the comment about leasing hardware servers to replace existing dead hardware servers as an inbetween solution

 

[WSC53]

I have no idea what that means. I was refering to: transitioning the various software systems onto the new hardware servers. hence the comment about leasing hardware servers to replace existing dead hardware servers as an inbetween solution

It is my understanding the current servers are virtual and all exist on 1 machine? Given this, I would assume the new server hardware would also be 1. Anyway, I wonder if this transitioning will ultimately result in what amounts to a significant server merge, even moreso than the player driven migration to Orien last year. I know if there is less lag, I'm there; I care little about things like names compared to the lag.

 

[Ryiah]

It is my understanding the current servers are virtual and all exist on 1 machine?

I've never heard anything from the developers that would suggest that. It's very difficult to have a single machine handling everything even with very high end specs. Note that the 32-bit is a server instance limit not a limit for the entire server. Every server has a lot of individual instances that you can get the IDs for with the /loc command. For example I'm in House D on Khyber at the moment and it says I'm on "server 57".

 

[Mindos]

I think they accidentally removed all throttle limits from all servers when testing their new 64 bit server.

 

[Smokewolf]

Maybe if you were running on a Commodore 64. A few hundred timers multiplied by a few thousand users is completely insignificant. They're spending more resources just running a single dungeon with enemies running around calculating physics than all of the timers across every server.

Hey the C64 with tape drive was AWESOME fot it's time. I miss it dearly !

 

[dur]

I think they accidentally removed all throttle limits from all servers when testing their new 64 bit server.

Hmm.. hence my other comment about hiring morons.. not that I know what "throttle limits" means.. so they should not hire me.

I really wish they would work harder at retaining talent or sell to someone who gives a *****.

@Smokewolf remember Defender?

 

[iheardthat2]

I used a spirit cake,

bought another spirit cake

DBG plan to sell more spirit cakes confirmed.

 

[DDO Gaming]

It is my understanding the current servers are virtual and all exist on 1 machine? Given this, I would assume the new server hardware would also be 1. Anyway, I wonder if this transitioning will ultimately result in what amounts to a significant server merge, even moreso than the player driven migration to Orien last year. I know if there is less lag, I'm there; I care little about things like names compared to the lag.

the hardware servers I am referring to are the actual physical blah that contains the software eg IBM Mainframe Z // https://www.ibm.com/z //
The server worlds you are referring to are software. Virtual servers are often created to partition users into different system configurations. the SSG virtual servers are actually a strange deployment because its the same gaming environment duplicated several times for no obvious reason.

Back in 2006 there may have been a core reason for duplicating the same gaming world multiple times however more recent demands to fuse all the duplicates into one gaming world suggests the 2006 decisions no longer apply

 

[Xaerxiessia]

Yeah, that too. Or we add the ship buffs number to our character sheet. The problem is timers though. There are too many timers on DDO. Elixirs have a timer, raids have a timer, chest ransack have timers, character buffs have timers, summons have timers, even quests have timers. On expiration launch this expiration_event_handler(...)

you 're missing each items in the Auction Hostels. (when everybody refresh the display of all items sorted in an order or another).

 

[Xaerxiessia]

Isn't that computed on the client though? I thought the client handles all the graphics work calculations. The server tells it where the character is at.

the client side render graphically the actions received , processed and validated by the server side.