Smokewolf
Frequently banned member.
Nerf-Core
Next hardcore league.
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Sure. Just spew whatever you feel like. The problem was a fast dwindling population for a niche game that didn't have much of a population to begin with. The was no store, there were no whales spending gobs of money, and the only revenue they got was through monthly subscriptions. The game was on life support. Tell yourself whatever you feel like, what you have to say doesn't mean a damn thing to me.
Justfungus
Well-known member
All animals here are equal, just some are more equal than others.
The raid folks (who spends a lot of money) cried and cried ... HCL is hurting my fun !
Nobody will raid with me ! Raids are all I do !
and SSG responded by moving the 'event' back to the servers so raid players can pester
everyone into filling their raid groups.
But the hard core part had to die so the Raider's would not lose warm bodies to fill the roster.
It was Raid folks vs HCL folks and the raid folks won.
I am kind of bitter though.
MY main fun was killed off to please a group that plays the part of the game
I could care less about.
We lost.
Will I EVER willingly participate in a raid?
No, never.
That part of the game is dead to me.
The raid folks (who spends a lot of money) cried and cried ... HCL is hurting my fun !
Nobody will raid with me ! Raids are all I do !
and SSG responded by moving the 'event' back to the servers so raid players can pester
everyone into filling their raid groups.
But the hard core part had to die so the Raider's would not lose warm bodies to fill the roster.
It was Raid folks vs HCL folks and the raid folks won.
I am kind of bitter though.
MY main fun was killed off to please a group that plays the part of the game
I could care less about.
We lost.
Will I EVER willingly participate in a raid?
No, never.
That part of the game is dead to me.
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I think you have narrowed it down too much, raiders doesnt really grab the demographic you are speaking of, its end game grinders and they produce the most money for the game which is why it is still here to play.
but…
what you need to realize is that the choices SSG has made to cater to those people has decimated the other population(not way to rekindle that would be a real hardcor eof old), and because of that dwindle all income must be generated from end game grinders, that is why you hear them whining about predatory this and predatory that, its because they know the target is on them. So enjoy the game and support SSG in milk the lifers of every last oenny they can suck out of them in whatever fashion that they do it. Remember support support support, write positively for SSG about all the changes that generate revenue from that demographic.
I too hope the real hardcore comes back and it will be even better with their induction time interruptable teleport, keep em spending!!
Buddha5440
"There are some who call me...Tim"
But without running raids how can you become Uber??? You won't even be able to complain about not having enough bank space because you have too many BtC items.
-Obviously sarcasm but, yeah...Hardcore is a one and done, no ifs, ands, or buts. If you die, you are deleted.
TedSandyman
Well-known member
The problem with hardcore league was that it was so much better than standard DDO. I know, some of you don't think so, all games are not for everyone. My proof is the sheer number of players who dropped out of their home servers and flocked to hardcore. The fact that every time it opened ALL of the other servers dropped players to the point that they couldn't really function proves my point.
I would put the hardcore server DDO individually as one of the most fun games I have ever played for sheer emotional connection. I would rank hardcore ddo above even Baldurs Gate for excitement. Why? Because I have never played a game before where I was dreading going into a room. My heart would pound when I would get stunned or tripped. Was this it? Am I dead? The adrenaline rush was incredible.
I have never played a game where I was afraid of the consequences. The emotional highs and lows of DDO Hardcore were more than any game I have ever played anywhere else. And I have played a LOT of games over the years.
When my character died, I was depressed for days afterward. Have you ever been depressed because your character died in a game? It is amazing to create a game that hooks you so completely. Most game developers would LOVE to make a game like that, but it is nearly impossible.
SSG did it with hardcore, and are now throwing it away, because it is killing their old moneymaker.
Everything they have done since is to try to recreate that feel but without taking people away from the standard servers. It just wont work. It just doesn't have the same feel. I have read on the forums, just delete your character if you die, it is the same. But it isn't emotionally, not even close. If I choose death, the death is in my hands, not the games. I might choose not to come back, but that takes all of the sting out of the death. It is my choice. That isn't how death works and it wont have the same emotional effect.
Loss that you cant control is the emotional kicker. I want that person back so bad I would do anything is the feeling that haunts you. If you could bring them back, but you didn't, that is very different. You weren't really invested in the first place. If you can just pop right back up and continue where you left off, it isn't emotional. It is just inconvenience. Yeah, you lose some access to items. But that isn't the same as permanent death. And yeah, in hardcore, you could resurrect in a different world, but you were dead and done on this world and that is what made it great.
I would put the hardcore server DDO individually as one of the most fun games I have ever played for sheer emotional connection. I would rank hardcore ddo above even Baldurs Gate for excitement. Why? Because I have never played a game before where I was dreading going into a room. My heart would pound when I would get stunned or tripped. Was this it? Am I dead? The adrenaline rush was incredible.
I have never played a game where I was afraid of the consequences. The emotional highs and lows of DDO Hardcore were more than any game I have ever played anywhere else. And I have played a LOT of games over the years.
When my character died, I was depressed for days afterward. Have you ever been depressed because your character died in a game? It is amazing to create a game that hooks you so completely. Most game developers would LOVE to make a game like that, but it is nearly impossible.
SSG did it with hardcore, and are now throwing it away, because it is killing their old moneymaker.
Everything they have done since is to try to recreate that feel but without taking people away from the standard servers. It just wont work. It just doesn't have the same feel. I have read on the forums, just delete your character if you die, it is the same. But it isn't emotionally, not even close. If I choose death, the death is in my hands, not the games. I might choose not to come back, but that takes all of the sting out of the death. It is my choice. That isn't how death works and it wont have the same emotional effect.
Loss that you cant control is the emotional kicker. I want that person back so bad I would do anything is the feeling that haunts you. If you could bring them back, but you didn't, that is very different. You weren't really invested in the first place. If you can just pop right back up and continue where you left off, it isn't emotional. It is just inconvenience. Yeah, you lose some access to items. But that isn't the same as permanent death. And yeah, in hardcore, you could resurrect in a different world, but you were dead and done on this world and that is what made it great.
Mechabambi
New member
I also liked how hardcore brought people together from all servers so it shook up the grouping meta. It was really cool to run with new people and make friends you'd look forward to seeing again next season.
Forum hyperbole proves your point? Maybe 40% of the active population played hardcore every time it opened. I played a couple times but I didn't find it all that appealing. And I know plenty of others that didn't play or strictly wanted some items so they did it. Not everything is done out of how much people love something. Now, I have no issue with it and I'm fine if they open a server every few months for all of you that enjoy it, but if dying having consequences was so desired, they never would have removed it from the main game. Don't confuse temporary enjoyment with something it isn't.
Tyrande
Well-known member
Hardcore is cool when there is no lag, or software bugs.
But in a non-perfect world we live in, there are lag, software bugs and people/grouping issues.
In essence, hardcore is a good concept, but difficult to implement. With the new expansion out, people want to try the new expansion, not hardcore on the new expansion. One careless strike by a monster could kill a hardcore character very easily when the hardcore character lags not responding, and of course SSG won't refund any resources spent on that dead character or bring that dead character back.
Hardcore also needs the utmost attention and of course with the adrenaline and dopamine, it feels good for the player. However, that can have a huge emotional drawback like a few days that you mentioned. It's like having a pet cat or dog died.
Reglad
Well-known member
I could not have write it better. (Ok, my bad school english is not helping too, and I dont want to use a translator
)But what you wrote is excactly what I was feeling during these seasons too. And I know many people who dont come back to the game because there is no „HC Server“ in the future. These ppl played while HC was off, learning new quests, better tactics and so on. But with this „new HC“ farming mode they wont come back at all. Yes, there is a point for server decay in the past during HC seasons, but after the merges (and how Cormyr went) there are only 3 Servers left…there must be enough players left for the raids (because the standard TRing farm can be done blind and solo anyway). But the chance to get more „non-active“ players back to game AND players who never experianced the beginning of this game (malus XP, strong debuffs that lasts, groups that group etc) is worth the effort imho.
To each there own, I for myself only play now when new races and classes are added. And not so much for fun I have to admitt but for my main char who is there from a time to long ago..
Greetings from Germany
Owlbear
Well-known member
Made your post shorter for the quote, but to be honest. I think Hardcore was actually one of the big things making them money. A lot of players bought tomes, consumables and shards to get stuff from the auction. Also big ivenstments for Guild ships were done several times. A lot of content creators made DDO content. The first years of HC events were probably some of the biggest profitable years DDO had in a long time.
But I don't think HC was actually better. The later seasons showed a lot of player decline. There were also a lot of things not working that great with HC. Too many redux seasons. Get's boring in the long run and most fun during the first few weeks. The ranking and leaderboards actually meant nothing and didn't add much because it was very basic.
I'd love to see a Hardcore server again in the future. It's true the Hardcore-like events have a totally different feel to it. But HC does need improvements to keep it fun.
I played dungeon hack with character death real option on the hardest settings. It was so cool to be afraid to rest because you had no food. The excitement of finding a coin machine!
Unfortunately, I was not playing DDO when the real HC seasons happened.
The last one though, I personally didn't enjoy it much. I love the HC concept but I strongly believe that HC toons should only group with HC toons, something that was not happening last season.
Also the search for lutes didn't excite me, but okay that was secondary.
I don't think we need a separate server, but we do need to restrict grouping to HC parties.
A HC toon could join a non HC party, but not the reverse.
HC toons at a non HC party do not progress in the event or leader board.
They still progress in level etc.
Cheers
Darkwolfer2002
Well-known member
And one of the biggest reason they don't want to go back to the old HC style. It would disenfranchise those who didn't want to play HC when the HC servers were up because said servers were a ghost town. The whole HC thing feels like a can worms that got opened and now they regret it. I think the new kinda HC style is a good compromise.
I mean other things to consider.
1. They don't have a 64 bit server
2 Haven't even figured out 64 to 64 transfers yet
3. They don't have to give away tons of loot drops from new server or 1st time DDO points
On the flipside tons of people bought guild airships and maybe bought tomes? Not sure if this even comes close to offsetting the costs though?
erethizon1
Well-known member
I too experienced this when my one and only character died. I left DDO for a year afterwards. It wasn't a good experience for me or for the longevity of the game. Depression for days is not what a good game does to you. I greatly wished season 5 had been the one with 3 lives so I could have continued.
It was a little fun while it lasted, but I wasn't playing it because it was fun. I was playing it to get bloody footprints. I would much, much rather had had any way at all to earn bloody footprints while playing my main character (instead of wasting all that time leveling a bank alt). The new system is so much better. I can get nearly the same reward while playing my normal character. The only improvement would be to be able to use the lutes that disappear when you die on my main character instead of a new character, but their compromise is good enough for me. I don't have to waste time leveling a new bank mule and hardcore people get unique consmetics that only they have.
Most agree with your reasoning including SSG. But the new system has a fundamental problem allowing HC toons to be carried. Clearly how the new system works for existing toons is perfect and should remain as such.
There is only a gap in calling it HC when you can have a completionist that plays with no risk to carry HC toons. <- that is what needs to change in my opinion and then we can have an excellent fun system for all!
erethizon1
Well-known member
Being carried has always been a thing even on the original hardcore servers so I would say just go all the way and let any character carry the hardcore lute, even competionists. The hardcore lute means you didn't die once during the time you had the lute equipped. That is all hardcore needs to mean. That is basically all it ever was anyway.
This sounds like an easy fix: Just don't allow hardcore players to queue with, bank with, guild with, or trade with, softcore players, make reaper 1 the lowest difficulty, make all accounts legend start with flat favor.
Hardcore games, in general, are basically a ladder, where every mission you survive is supposed to matter. Anything you do to allow people to skip game mechanics or make things easier makes hardcore a worse experience. So you just remove the interaction with softcore while still being on the same server , although eachothers queues would be greyed out.
Hardcore games, in general, are basically a ladder, where every mission you survive is supposed to matter. Anything you do to allow people to skip game mechanics or make things easier makes hardcore a worse experience. So you just remove the interaction with softcore while still being on the same server , although eachothers queues would be greyed out.
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