Not a suggestion or complaint, but rather a post about what I like and not.

[Winterburn]

Hi all.

I wanted to make a post about what I like (both with this game but also from other games like this one) and see what other think and have a discussion about certain features and limitations etc.

So I should probably start with that I have played several MMORPG's over the years and all of them have some similar features and in some they've made a different approach to certain things.

The things that I like in the game ESO for instance is that you don't have traps in the same way as in DDO (there are some bear traps but there isn't a trap skill where you need a rogue, everyone can disarm those). The so called rogue class is instead made for dps and stealth.

Another thing from ESO that I like is that all classes are better balanced so no specific class is way way way better then any other (when we talk in what they can be in terms of tanks, dps, heals or hybrid builds). It comes down more to how you build your character, you want to be tankier you loose some damage, want to do more damage you loose a bit defence but not in the same way as in DDO. In DDO certain classes becomes way squichier and/or loose damage if you have aggro (rogues and sneak attack damage as an example).

Another game that I played a lot is SWTOR and the thing I liked in that game (except that it was Star Wars) was the way they made the story telling part with voiced cutscenes and things like that. Also both ESO and SWTOR had more ingame obtainable stuff like mounts, skins while in DDO most of these thing are pay with cash to get (don't get me wrong ESO and SWTOR has a lot of those things you have to buy with real money too, way more then DDO i think but they also have more you can earn in game then DDO).

Now it's a bit unfair to compare these three games as this game was intended to be played in balanced groups where you had specific rolls where I'm uncertain if ESO ever were made like that (wasn't around at the start or as early of ESO as I was with DDO). I know that in the beginning of SWTOR there were quests that were harder and you needed to group up to be able to complete them, the base story however was made to be done solo with your companions.

One of the things I love from DDO that these other games lacked is cross-class building which is something I do like with DDO because it opens up so many possibilities and ways to make flavor builds.

I also like that you can TR a character once you are bored with it (and keep your stuff you have gotten during past lives). The one thing I'm not the biggest fan of is the PL feats. The PL feats and benefits imo makes the game uneven, even if the benefits aren't massive every little edge counts and helps and this makes it uneven between a long time player and a new player.

Now there will always be uneveness between new and old players, especially with a TR system even if you eliminated the PL feats and stuff the old player would have their already farmed gear from previous lives that a new player wouldn't have etc. Also if you didn't have the grind of PL's in this game I'm not sure if it would have lasted as long as it has honestly.

There is also lore and other things to consider like what the games are based from and such. Also what the intent behind the game was and how the devs envisioned it to be.

Now I don't want all games to be precisely the same only with different worlds and stories. Also considering that I always come back to this game should indicate that I am a fan (even though there athings I would like to change and stuff).

One also have to take into account that of these three games DDO is the oldest so it stand to reason that with hardware and software beeing developed the others could do/add things that DDO can't unless they redo it from the ground up (like adding voice acting and cutscenes as an example).

Let me know what part of certain games you enjoyed and what things specifically you liked and also if there is things that DDO did better in your opinions.

I do have to say that for beeing as old as it is I think it has held up really nicely. Are there better graphichs in other MMORPG's? Sure, but it also comes with a cost usually like needing better hardware to run as an example.

 

[Dude]

Seems like a good candidate for the "Off Topic" forum.

 

[Drunken.dx]

What i like at DDO compared to ESO is that classes are distinct, you won't find rogue tank in DDO (unless it's flavor build), while in ESO each class could fill each role, some had advantages but in core those advantages were minor.
And I like how DDO is DIFFERENT than generic "balanced classes" MMO

 

[Winterburn]

Seems like a good candidate for the "Off Topic" forum.

You're not wrong. Is there a way to move the post?

 

[Dude]

You're not wrong. Is there a way to move the post?

You can probably send a message to Cordovan. If anyone can do it, I'm sure he can.

 

[Winterburn]

What i like at DDO compared to ESO is that classes are distinct, you won't find rogue tank in DDO (unless it's flavor build), while in ESO each class could fill each role, some had advantages but in core those advantages were minor.
And I like how DDO is DIFFERENT than generic "balanced classes" MMO

Well thanks to the multiclass option in DDO you could make pretty much anything. You want to tank and do traps, well you can make a build that could do that. Would it be optimized, probably no or you would have to give something somewhere like damage for instance and trap avoidance too.

However it wouldn't be balanced as it is in a game as ESO between the classes. However if you goal was to play normal - elite you would probably get away with it and maybe even for R1 in some cases. Mid reapers could probably also be doable if you played in groups.

Offcourse then there are those that are just really really good that might even be able to get away with such a build in higher reapers too, especially if they had nice ppl to play with.

I just remembered why I started this post and I forgot to add that in my opening post.

One of the things I don't like in DDO is that you can't do everything in quests with every build/class. To do traps you must have either taken 1 or more levels in a class that can do traps and put some statpoints into intelligence to get enough skill points for those skills that are needed. Same with locked chests.

Now with the traps gold hirelings added you can use them for this (there will be certain level intervals where you would either have to forgo traps or get a hire from DDO store if you want this though) but there are some trapboxes that hires can't do because of their position (there is one in the quest Kind of a big deal that comes to mind that are annoying). Same with some chests that are under water that the heirelings won't unlock.

There are also some mobs where you have to use ranged damage on them if you want them gone (and yes I usually have a throwing weapon on all my chars that don't have any way to do ranged damage otherwise and even on casters for levers and stuff). Now using a ranged weapon on a char that isn't built for it will make it take very very long to kill said monsters and that is annoying to me, especially if they have some way to heal themselves.

Now I get that for zergers this is not an issue most of the time (unless there is a monster like this that has to be dealth with) and most often then not I do have the time once I play to deal with them, it's just as I said annoying.

Now do I have to be able to do everything and open every chest? No, but I would like to.

I would suggest that every locked chest in the game had a key somewhere in said quest that unlocked it. That way you could choose if you want to backtrack to get the loot. I do realize that most of those chests only have generic crap loot in them but since they added the curse stuff and curse cleansers can drop form any chest I like to get every chest. Also I think there are at least 1 chest like that in IoD that gives mats, maybe there are more I don't remember right now.

 

[Drunken.dx]

Well thanks to the multiclass option in DDO you could make pretty much anything. You want to tank and do traps, well you can make a build that could do that. Would it be optimized, probably no or you would have to give something somewhere like damage for instance and trap avoidance too.

However it wouldn't be balanced as it is in a game as ESO between the classes. However if you goal was to play normal - elite you would probably get away with it and maybe even for R1 in some cases. Mid reapers could probably also be doable if you played in groups

Tell me you never played trapper in legendary content without telling me you never played trapper in legendary content

I just remembered why I started this post and I forgot to add that in my opening post.

One of the things I don't like in DDO is that you can't do everything in quests with every build/class.

BEST PART OF DDO

Now do I have to be able to do everything and open every chest? No, but I would like to.

I would suggest that every locked chest in the game had a key somewhere in said quest that unlocked it. That way you could choose if you want to backtrack to get the loot. I do realize that most of those chests only have generic crap loot in them but since they added the curse stuff and curse cleansers can drop form any chest I like to get every chest. Also I think there are at least 1 chest like that in IoD that gives mats, maybe there are more I don't remember right now.

Bells of opening are your friend

 

[Winterburn]

Tell me you never played trapper in legendary content without telling me you never played trapper in legendary content

BEST PART OF DDO

Bells of opening are your friend

I actually have played a trapper in legendary content. Not sure what you were implying here but I use switchable gear to get boosts to disable and unlock as well as search with a spot item on regularly. although I havn't played a trapper at high skulls, not sure if that is somehow more difficult and that is what was implyed with this statement.

Well agree to disagree.

True, forgot about those. Although the cheap part in me would rather have a key in the quests and backtrack. ?

Edit: Might be time to dust off my Bells of opening, I have 20+ somewhere on an alt I don't currently use. Although I'm cheap when it comes to those and usually end up not using them because what if I need it. ?

 

[Sophie The Cat Burglar]

Star Wars was a really fun game. It was fairly easy to build a good character for group and solo play. The main story was okay. The outfit system was excellent. The companion system was excellent. Housing was pretty good. The role play community was really nice on the server where I played.

 

[Winterburn]

Star Wars was a really fun game. It was fairly easy to build a good character for group and solo play. The main story was okay. The outfit system was excellent. The companion system was excellent. Housing was pretty good. The role play community was really nice on the server where I played.

I agree with everything you mentioned here.

The one thing that stops me from ever going back is that my account is linked to a key code app and when I have been away for too long they don't sync up anymore. To fix this I have to call the customer service and try to fix it that way and I live in Sweden and the customer service is USA based so too much hassle for me.

Also I have played through it on all classes and done most of it and aren't really feeling SW right now. I want more fantasy and DDO is my main fantasy game no questions about it.

I do like ESO too a lot but I'm not ready to switch over as this game is still a lot of fun for me to play. I have gotten a little DDO fatigue but not enough to take a break yet.

 

[Sophie The Cat Burglar]

The one thing that stops me from ever going back is that my account is linked to a key code app and when I have been away for too long they don't sync up anymore. To fix this I have to call the customer service and try to fix it that way and I live in Sweden and the customer service is USA based so too much hassle for me.

I only played Star Wars for, like, two months. My account was deleted after a server merge. That was really crummy so I never went back.

Never played Elder Scrolls Online. Is that the one where the soul of your character is stolen in the introduction? Whatever game that was, I refused to play it. A really offensive story will cause me to leave a game almost immediately.

I much prefer science fiction to fantasy. Like, a million times to one. Unfortunately, almost all multi-player science fiction games are built around player versus player garbage.

 

[Winterburn]

I only played Star Wars for, like, two months. My account was deleted after a server merge. That was really crummy so I never went back.

Never played Elder Scrolls Online. Is that the one where the soul of your character is stolen in the introduction? Whatever game that was, I refused to play it. A really offensive story will cause me to leave a game almost immediately.

I much prefer science fiction to fantasy. Like, a million times to one. Unfortunately, almost all multi-player science fiction games are built around player versus player garbage.

Yeah that's the one. Not your whole sould though if I remember correctly but a piece of it. Not sure why that is offensive but if it is to you then I respect your view.

Yeah I like SF stuff a lot too and agree with that most of the ones I have come across have been too much PvP and less story and single experience.

Sad to hear your account got deleted like that btw, that's never fun and is truly a thing that can make one lose ones desire to play a game.

As for the PvP aspect of games, I don't mind there beeing PvP option as longa as it's not mandatory. In ESO if you really want your character to have all the best stuff you need to do some PvP to get a few abilities that you get from PvP experience only. That part I dislike a lot since the PvP is so difficult.

Yes if you play it more you get better at it but with there beeing so many players that are experts in PvP it makes it hard to learn how to really get better. Plus there are some ppl that just knows hoe to make builds that are superior to anything you can come up with that it almost feels like they're cheating and it makes you not even want to try it out.

Once or maybe twice a year they have a PvP event that gives increased xp and that is when you should just go in and do it for the xp and then you can skip it ofr the rest of the time if you happen to play that game. Also once you get full amount of xp in the PvPskill line you can buy/unlock it from their in game store on any alts which is nice if you truly can't stand PvP although it does cost a bit of real money.

 

[Sophie The Cat Burglar]

I have yet to find a really good social game. Fantasy. Science fiction. Anything. They all fail for the same reason. There is some activity that requires a lot of warm bodies. Most people want nothing to do with it. The game is built to coerce people to do the unpleasant activity. In most games, it is player versus player stuff. In some games, it is the hard mode stuff. Game developers will never let people bibity bob along and build a good character just doing fun, happy things. They always need to screw over one group of people to make another group of people happy. Always.

There are good solo games but there is no one to talk to. No one to role play with. Modern stories in solo games usually suck.

Social groups have different problems. It seems like everyone is unhappy now but maybe that is me looking at the world through Glasses of Unrelenting Unhappiness.

 

[Winterburn]

I have yet to find a really good social game. Fantasy. Science fiction. Anything. They all fail for the same reason. There is some activity that requires a lot of warm bodies. Most people want nothing to do with it. The game is built to coerce people to do the unpleasant activity. In most games, it is player versus player stuff. In some games, it is the hard mode stuff. Game developers will never let people bibity bob along and build a good character just doing fun, happy things. They always need to screw over one group of people to make another group of people happy. Always.

There are good solo games but there is no one to talk to. No one to role play with. Modern stories in solo games usually suck.

Social groups have different problems. It seems like everyone is unhappy now but maybe that is me looking at the world through Glasses of Unrelenting Unhappiness.

I'm not sure I would call it unhappy really, it's more lethargy and stress. None seems to have or want to take the time to talk to eachother and also do the quests in a calm way where everyone feels like they contribute.

It's zerg with no care if you are cought up and have really done anything other then watch the really fast players kill everything. I mean they usually don't even wait to start next quest when everyone has gathered and are ready. I have joined in on a few parties where I might have joined late and the others finish before I have even reached the half way point, recall out and start the next one and so on.

I do miss the times when you could actually make a friend or two to play with every so often. Now I don't mind playing solo, I just wished the game was made better for solo play (hirelings that could tank so you didn't have to get aggro on a squishy char and so you could actually get full damage on like a rogue that are supposed to hit on flank or behind to get sneak attack damage. Also having to kite around as a ranged or caster is less fun too.

There are ways to actually promote group play and non-zerg play if they wanted to implement it but I suppose that they might lose a few of the oldies if they did.

The way I see how you could slow things down a bit in terms of zerg would be to make optionals worth more xp and same for conquest etc and the actual quest xp lower. that way if you want to max xp you would actually have to do all stuff in quests.

As for group play I would make it so that the quests scale with how many actual players are in the party. If you solo there are a certain number of enemies you face in the quest, if there are more players then that number increases a little for each extra player and maybe even become a bit harder to kill so that you need to adjust your playstyle if you party up and work together and even so everyone has to contibute.

Although I think that that ship has sailed for this game as it probably would be a massive job to implement and also too many would be apposed to such changes.

Anyway I'm happy as long as PvP isn't "forced" upon us and there is a way to play both solo and in group.

I can say this though for rogues and rogue like characters I would love for there to be an active skill you could use to stealth away and be able to hit enemies with sneak attack like there are in ESO. I know there are some stuff that envelopse enemies in darkness that gives you maybe a aneak attack hit or two but for the most part once stealth has been broken with you attacking there are no other way for you to kind of draw shadows around you and become stealthed again or if there is such abilities they usually have long cooldowns which makes them less useful and fun.

 

[Drunken.dx]

Social groups have different problems. It seems like everyone is unhappy now but maybe that is me looking at the world through Glasses of Unrelenting Unhappiness.

You need more baby elephants in your life.

 

[Sophie The Cat Burglar]

I'm not gonna beat on DDO. There is no perfect game because every person wants something different.

Was kinda mentioning my problem in the hope someone would recommend a game. A few years back, when it became obvious DDO had gone full on hard mode, I asked for game recommendations. A few people praised Morrowwind. It was too primitive for me. Did not like the story.

You need more baby elephants in your life.

Baby animals are cute. There is a wildlife rescue center not far from where I live. I went there to volunteer but the whole experience was very depressing. Human beings are unbelievably cruel. On one occassion I rode an elephant. I came away feeling very sorry for her. All these stupid monkeys on her back. I want to set them all free on a planet without humans and predators.

 

[Winterburn]

I'm not gonna beat on DDO. There is no perfect game because every person wants something different.

Was kinda mentioning my problem in the hope someone would recommend a game. A few years back, when it became obvious DDO had gone full on hard mode, I asked for game recommendations. A few people praised Morrowwind. It was too primitive for me. Did not like the story.




Baby animals are cute. There is a wildlife rescue center not far from where I live. I went there to volunteer but the whole experience was very depressing. Human beings are unbelievably cruel. On one occassion I rode an elephant. I came away feeling very sorry for her. All these stupid monkeys on her back. I want to set them all free on a planet without humans and predators.

Unfortunately I would think that most games suffers from the same problems.

Maybe some new game when it comes out and are "all the hype" there will be some that are happy and "just having fun" but as time goes on ppl tend to become less and less social (and what I mean here isn't that there isn't ppl in DDO or other games that will help new players and such, what I mean is that there are less and less that will initiate talks in general chats and community stuff. It's like when the guilds were smaller and not as developed in level there were more talk and ppl joined up and nowadays you see either fully levelled guilds or very small guilds that are probably like mine - a 1 person guild).

I can also see that there were a lot more talking going on abck then in the guilds then it is today (I would assume, except for when you have a few ppl that are around the same level and they want to quest together) but that is the way things go. Some person takes a longer break and when he/she comes back some of the old friends might be on break or have quit and the wibe that was isn't there anymore and slowly the whole thing dies out.

So as for suggesting games, I'm sorry but I can't. There used to be a lot of social stuff done by a few streamers and youtube ppl in SWTOR where they had self made "events" and gave out prices (usually store items like cosmetics, mounts and such). Some did this in ESO too and those are the only other games that I have ever played enough to be able to recommend and I'm not sure that I would today because they have maybe other issues then DDO but they have their own issues too.

 

[Uska]

what I like about this game is it isn't ESO didn't like that game I like there are distinctive classes and I like the traps it feels closer to pnp it felt closer when the game was new but it still does sometimes

 

[Positive thinking]

I'm not gonna beat on DDO. There is no perfect game because every person wants something different.

Was kinda mentioning my problem in the hope someone would recommend a game. A few years back, when it became obvious DDO had gone full on hard mode, I asked for game recommendations. A few people praised Morrowwind. It was too primitive for me. Did not like the story.




Baby animals are cute. There is a wildlife rescue center not far from where I live. I went there to volunteer but the whole experience was very depressing. Human beings are unbelievably cruel. On one occassion I rode an elephant. I came away feeling very sorry for her. All these stupid monkeys on her back. I want to set them all free on a planet without humans and predators.

Sophie and for that matter Winterburn, you guys want a better teamwork and group play fun experience, you should consider trying out playing in EXTREME Mortal Voyage Permadeath on Argo, we bring back the feeling of team like it was before all the population was in endgame grinding. PM me if you are interested and we can connect online.

Sophie i have a game suggestion for you that might fit what you are looking for when you decide to leave DDO, my boyfriend plays it and says the combat is too notch and interactive. The game is called Warframe(sci-fi ish), and to boot he is super excited for the upcoming release of the newer fantasy based version called Soulframe. Best part the game is completely free it has pay to advance stuff but everything is available in game with no need to make any purchases.

All the best wishes!

 

[edsandarkbane]

What a refreshing post. Genuine, inviting, constructive, worthy of praise. Your motive is plain, and free of judgment, and venom. I am inspired to respond in kind.

I read the first post carefully, and kind of speed read the rest of this thread. I am going to respond only to the original post.
But I am glad to sit among you all.

I recently joined eso. In 3 months I went from brand new to having 9 capped toons and over 1100 champion points. Almost all 9 traits researched in all categories. Ran all raids multiple times, placed 13, in a weekend pvp tournament, and I tested their build system thoroughly.

My journey was fun, and immersion was well handled.
Eso however does not have any build variety. And it doesn't matter the class. The game is balanced around the armor and weapon sets. And each role, dps, heals, tank, are subject to these sets.

The highest stat for damage update helped in making more class skills relevant, but fails to offer build variety as one will still need the set for the intended role. Making the choice of build aesthetic. This revelation was astonishing to me, certainly reaffirmed the place ddo really needs to be aiming for.

I for one, was thrilled when I learned that no new sets would be introduced to ddo. They are fun and can add to the game, but eso has proven that if it becomes the main progression marker, it makes player choice non existent.

Swtor. I agree that their dungeon story system is more dnd than any out there, and none have even attempted to copy it. Unfortunately, mismanagement, heavy handed balance updates, created a toxic game environment and forced swtor on life support since 2013.

That being said the first 8 months or so the game was amazing. Build variety, pvp, dungeons and raids. But the game had a long level process, it wasn't easy to hit cap. The build freedom at cap confused alot of players unfamiliar with real choice. But now I have gone full circle. It was sad to see that game betrayed by its own creators, and the politics of EA. I bet the people who sold the game out for a corporate promotion don't even work anywhere near swtor or ea.

Excellent post, my friend. I wish I could see you in game. All the posters in here seem like worthy allies.