Only 8 level 20 quests, none of them original

[Owlbear]

As far as I know the only saga for level 20 is actually heroic elite with Vecna. Borderlands is just a quest chain. The xp reward for playing legendary sagas at casual or normal difficulties isn't nearly
as much as you make out to be.

I'm not saying you need to run Saga's on 20. I'm saying there is no reason to limit yourself to run quests on the level you are when you get to Epic. Limiting yourself to run level 20 quests when you are level 20 or level 21 quests when you are level 21 really doesn't seem that XP efficient to me if you want to maximize xp earnings.
More Epic quests would be nice. But I don't think more level 20 quests is that needed.

 

[SecretPhiarlanMan]

I think some clearer direction other than a random ding in the Harbor to talk to the priest and talking to the epic destiny trainer would be nice.

Not saying there should be a full onboarding, but something a little more than currently? Sure.

And I think 25-30 needs the most love, imo. You can get to 23-24 pretty easily from keep and other stuff. And newbies aren't going to know keep has an epic range when korthos doesn't...

A lot of people don't even know the adventure journal exists.

 

[Bjond]

Maybe could lead on to a series of relatively short quests involving some sewer traversal, a previously flooded part of the waterworks, A deeper section of the steam tunnels etc.

While I'm always up for killing Kobolds in the Sewers, I don't want to see quests in the L20~L23 range at all. We already have KOB at L21 and I don't run them. Instead, I step directly into doing L24 quests when I hit L20. The L21 don't give enough XP by comparison.

However, compared to Heroic levels, the Epics levels are an XP desert. There's so much XP in heroics that at best you might do 20% of the available quests. In Epics, it feels more like 80%.

 

[kmoustakas]

Given the amount of quests in this game and the landmark that is getting to 20 and heading into Epic, its a real let down there are no original quests at epic lvl 20. Ok, there's one Heroic and as far as I am aware, its the only heroic level 20 quest in the game. Probably could do with retuning it to 19th or making it Epic there SSG. (The Dreaming Dark)

You get Sentinels of Stormreach quests - a rehash of level 7 quests and the Phiarlan Carnival - a rehash of level 5 quests. Zero actual level 20 quests that are not rehashes.

I have a suggestion. A one-off level 20 quest where your at a ceremony marking your new status as a heroic figure in Stormreach when blow me down with a feather, there's an assassination attempt or there's a plot afoot to assassinate you by the Blood Tide (leading into Sentinels). The ghosts of the 18,000 humans you killed on the way to 20 flood into the marketplace during the ceremony and you have to save the day as the residents run in terror. Optionals include going into some of the houses that are normally just unclickable doors and rescuing people. Something along those lines

Maybe could lead on to a series of relatively short quests involving some sewer traversal, a previously flooded part of the waterworks, A deeper section of the steam tunnels etc. Maybe make the final reward an Eveningstar teleport item to lead you into the lvl 21 Eveningstar questline.

I totally agree because it's gotten so tiring for quests to be level 3 - 33. We need an expansion pack to be level 20. Not 19, not 21, 20!

 

[l_remmie]

I'd love more epic content. Variety is the spice of life after all.

 

[Striga]

Here's what I run at 20:

* I have a group of characters that usually run together (multibox). Those go for 5000 favor. And level 20 is a great spot to wrap up level 16, 17, 18 quests on R4.

* I have other characters that usually pug. With those, I run whatever groups I can join. If it's a legendary r4 where I get dragged through, good for me.

 

[Fizzix]

Kings Forest Slayers used to take care of 20-22. Then they nerfed Grim.

sigh

 

[Oliphant]

Lot of talking around in the thread the fact there are barely any level 20 quests in the game and most are not original, the key fact.

 

[mikarddo]

Lot of talking around in the thread the fact there are barely any level 20 quests in the game and most are not original, the key fact.

That is obviously true. What is debateable is if this is a problem or not. Debating a simple fact makes no sense - debating the consequences does.

 

[paddymaxson]

You could run all the 19s on reaper though, Shavarath and cannith manufactury quests are surprisingly good XP and they're pretty easy when you're 20 with your first batch of destiny points spent.

 

[Igognito]

Some definitions
Heroic: 1-20
Epic: 21-30
Divine: 20hd +30 lvl or something vague in that lines, rank 0..21+
In other words lvl 20 is still heroic.
Legendary is something DDO introduced.

Now that we clarified this let's talk quests.
Level 20 quests should have been heroic. Like the old ones and P. Carnival and sentinels should become lvl 21.

Lvl 20 quests should though give XP to lvl 20 toons like if epic quests. In simple terms: lvl 20quests should give more XP.

Level 18 quests played in elite become 20, what are these quests? This is where the problem lies... How you reward modified quests.
Personally I'm against the current level scaling for quests but I won't go to that discussion.

Lvl 20 quests should been the end game of heroics.
Now DDO has chosen that toons lvl 20 are epic, which doesn't really work out.

Similar treatment for level 30 quest and toons.
In practice max heroic XP reached should be 1xp less than level 21. And similar for epic XP.
And assuming legendary will reach up to 40, the same treatment.

Then they can do 41-50 for divine but let's be frank PL are the divine ranks already .

Okay enough with ideas that will never be implemented.

Based on the current situation:
Step 1:
A) Level 20 quests should be marked heroic
Or b) be if epic should become level 21.
Step 2:
Improve the XP of lvl 20 quests.
Step 3:
Use level 20 heroic together with lvl 30+ for some new adventure pack. Maybe a 4+1 chain pack.

 

[Igognito]

Quest scaling idea
A quest level X remains level X regardless the difficulty.
Heroic quests (1..20) apply epic+legendary toon XP penalty.
Casual difficulty allows only X-1 or less level toon to earn full XP.
Normal difficulty allows X or less level toons to earn full XP.
Hard difficulty X+1 or less level toons to earn full XP.
Elite difficulty x+2 or less level toons to earn full XP.
Reaper difficulty x+3 or less....
Epic quests (21..30) apply legendary toon XP penalty
You can't enter unless you are level 20+
Casual X or less, normal X+2 or less
Hard X+4 or less elite X+6 or less and finally X+8 or less for reaper.

Legendary quests (31...40) increase by +1 normal and rest difficulties.

 

[SecretPhiarlanMan]

I like the idea behind your post. I still think there should be more epic range quests.

 

[norriskwondo]

While I'm always up for killing Kobolds in the Sewers, I don't want to see quests in the L20~L23 range at all. We already have KOB at L21 and I don't run them. Instead, I step directly into doing L24 quests when I hit L20. The L21 don't give enough XP by comparison.

However, compared to Heroic levels, the Epics levels are an XP desert. There's so much XP in heroics that at best you might do 20% of the available quests. In Epics, it feels more like 80%.

Not to mention, lengendary has almost as representation as heroic. And with the rising level cap, the legendary representation is having more significance than it did a couple years ago. Especially as we approach level 36 and higher cap.

 

[Justfungus]

couple things at work here.
The biggest is .... Level 1-5 quests are easier to make.
The other thing is by level 20, most of the endgame players are demanding another 'Raid' over stand alone dungeons.
It is what it is.
Like the book says ....
All animals are equal, it is just that some of them are more equal than others.

 

[Sarlona Raiding]

I thought they did a great job of addressing low epic leveling by allowing us to run heroic quests at reaper as long as it was in the appropriate level range. The level 18-19 quests are hard to fit in at heroic levels so I definitely appreciate being able to run these at 20, even though the xp is much lower than epic quests. Still I often want to fit many of these quests in so it works great for me.

 

[Indyanna]

I'm not saying you need to run Saga's on 20. I'm saying there is no reason to limit yourself to run quests on the level you are when you get to Epic. Limiting yourself to run level 20 quests when you are level 20 or level 21 quests when you are level 21 really doesn't seem that XP efficient to me if you want to maximize xp earnings.
More Epic quests would be nice. But I don't think more level 20 quests is that needed.

The issue here really becomes if you are trying to do more than one ETR per full TR.

You have to be mindful of the quests you run and when or you’ll make your life miserable on the second or third ETR.

Also when you’re a new player and you first hit epics, it’s a massive change. Do I think we need more level 20 quests though? No.

 

[Bjond]

Do I think we need more level 20 quests though? No.

I'd love to see more sagas in the 24~28 range, though. That would permit multiple ETR runs per life while banking a different set each pass; ie. FTB on the way up each time.

It would also give epic leveling a LOT more variety.

'Course, heroic leveling has it's own soft lock-ins that preclude running variety. I'll typically do coin & bank favor when leveling non-iconics, which pretty much locks-in L1~6 and L9~12.

IMHO, this would be the biggest benefit of making coin+bank favor rewards sticky across TR: now I'm free to choose newer content -- KOB, Salt, Fey, Dread, and Chill -- during Heroics.

 

[mikarddo]

I'd love to see more sagas in the 24~28 range, though. That would permit multiple ETR runs per life while banking a different set each pass; ie. FTB on the way up each time.

It would also give epic leveling a LOT more variety.

'Course, heroic leveling has it's own soft lock-ins that preclude running variety. I'll typically do coin & bank favor when leveling non-iconics, which pretty much locks-in L1~6 and L9~12.

IMHO, this would be the biggest benefit of making coin+bank favor rewards sticky across TR: now I'm free to choose newer content -- KOB, Salt, Fey, Dread, and Chill -- during Heroics.

Running Coin Lords and House K favor still is a matter of choice and possibly habit though.

I stopped doing that when they gave us a lot of extra shared space and havent looked back.

 

[Igognito]

The issue here really becomes if you are trying to do more than one ETR per full TR.

You have to be mindful of the quests you run and when or you’ll make your life miserable on the second or third ETR.

Also when you’re a new player and you first hit epics, it’s a massive change. Do I think we need more level 20 quests though? No.

I did 2 ETRs this life. First round was: kob, sentinels, FR quests (also some FR wilderness)
Second run was: p. Carnival, spies, 3bc, rest of FR, necro4 (also some wilderness).
I currently have banked all heroic and all epic sagas and I will be starting soon with the legendaries as I finished also the epic raids.
(Capped on XP but I like to play stuff to relatively close their level and not to just smash them for favor).

2 ETRs don't need much planning just move fw when you don't need the lower level and come back in the second run.

I thought they did a great job of addressing low epic leveling by allowing us to run heroic quests at reaper as long as it was in the appropriate level range. The level 18-19 quests are hard to fit in at heroic levels so I definitely appreciate being able to run these at 20, even though the xp is much lower than epic quests. Still I often want to fit many of these quests in so it works great for me.

Yes, these odd level quests, I usually also play as level 20 until I become 21.
The could push some of them as lvl 20 heroic tbh.