Overall difficulty rework

[Sol]

This was inspired by the Reaper Thread but I felt like it needed it's own discussion.

I feel like difficulty in DDO needs an overall rework. I've recently been playing a lot of first life characters just because I enjoy the idea of that sort of build limitation more, but I've noticed a few things.

• Casual is completely defunct. There is literally no point to even include this in the game anymore. It was pointless before the slow process of power creep effectively turned normal into Casual.
• Normal is extremely easy, even for new players. Traps, admittedly, you can make an argument for being fine on normal as they catch new players by surprise, but the difficulty of combat for most of the game on normal is pitiful. It basically doesn't exist once you have a solid AoE of some sort.
• Hard feels like where Normal should be. I can imagine brand new players struggling just a pinch if they're not taking it slow, but that's where a good normal difficulty should be imo. Just challenging enough to grip you without being extremely hard.
• Elite feels fun on a first life when you know what you're doing and have played the game for a while, know what build you're doing and enhancements you're taking. Honestly, a genuinely solid 'hard' mode if you're not playing a strong build, or your just getting good at the game. I think Elite and has always been a fun experience, but unfortunately...
• Reaper 1-3 is literally easier than Elite once you get, like, a handful of Reaper points. I'm talking, like, 3-5 reaper points in the tree of your choice. Couple that with just better rewards and reaper progress, it warps balance a bit.

I think if reworking reaper is on the table, you should start with the base difficulty DDO provides and catch it up with the modern game, then rework reaper with that as a new baseline.

My suggestions.

1. First and foremost with these suggestions, tweak EXP and rewards accordingly if Elite/Reaper is suddenly inaccessible to a chunk of the playerbase. I'm not trying to suggest ways to kill the current speed at which people can grind TRs/ect, I'm just suggesting ways to make the game more fun and challenging.
2. Remove the idea of casual, make 'Normal' the current 'Hard' difficulty.
3. Make 'Hard' the current 'Elite' Difficulty
4. Make Elite a new and unique difficulty that possesses a proper challenge to modernly designed enhancement trees and builds. Maybe Expert?
5. Make a new Elite that is a step above current Elite.
6. Whatever you do to reaper, make sure Reaper 1 is always more challenging than Elite. Maybe cap the strength of Reaper Trees to the level of Reaper you're attempting... for example, Reaper 1-3 only allows you to use Reaper Cores and the first tier of enhancements, Reaper 4-6 allows up to tier 2 enhancements, ect.

tl;dr, new difficulties are Normal, Hard, Expert, Elite, Reaper (1-10), Normal is the current hard, Hard is the current Expert, Expert is a new difficulty between Hard and Elite, Elite is a step above that, Reaper uses the new Elite as a baseline.

Lastly, if I had a single wish for DDO's difficulty it would be more variance on what difficulties actually influence and not just raw numbers. Maybe Path of Exile has left this idea in my brain but rogue/evil adventurers occasionally popping up in mob packs in higher difficulties would be sick.

If we can get hired by the good guys to solve problems, surely the enemies can hire some under the table mercenaries employing some of our own tactics against us, eh?

Rogue Paladins could put a debuff on players forcing players to kill them first or suffer massively reduced damage as a form of tanking, while also casting lay on hands and providing an aura to the pack.

Rogue... Rogues could require massive spot or listen skills to see before they're unstealthed, and specifically have AI to set up an attack on a squishy or heal-centric player. Maybe not an immediate attack, but maybe they do Sap for their first attack, and then will sneak attack if they are not interrupted or killed quickly.

Rogue Warlocks? Those chain eldritch blasts are pretty strong against normal monsters... how will players fair?

Ect, ect, ect...

My point being, Reapers are a great concept, but boil down to if they can surprise you or not most of the time. Adding variance that directly requires different answers each run that isn't some sneak attack and instead a 'oh that pack has a paladin/fighter merc in it' sometimes can be fun and challenging, too. This can also be a different system compared to reapers... introduce it in the new hard mode and make it more common in the new elite and reaper modes.

 

[Darkwolfer2002]

The reason reaper is less challenging than elite I feel is mostly because of Lost Souls. I can do a 1st lifer on reapers with no reaper points simply because unlike Elite I can get my mana back.

I disagree that only a few points make a difference. I find higher level content in general is just easier. You have more skills/spells which simply make dealing with reapers and mobs easier. At low level you're like I got my one single target spell/attack and just swing my weapon.

Of course being in a group makes all content much easier.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

I like the idea of a non-reaper difficulty above elite, but I don't think the reshuffle is necessary. Just add 'Expert' or whatever you want to call it and leave the others alone.

Reaper needs either a complete overhaul, expanded to r20, or a completely new system to make it obsolete. Current r10 is easier than r4 was on release. Its time for something new.

 

[Lagin3]

I made this suggestion a few years back. I think we sould be able to toggle champions on/off AND pick (like reaper) what lvel of difficulty. Notice I left out elite, only because I made the template shown here too small.

 

[DBZ]

Elite is still hard for new players

 

[Bogrot]

Eventhough I have many past lives, I still run some quests on normal, especially if I don't like them and need them for a saga. I always run heroic "The Spinner in Shadows" on normal and even run it on casual - I hate the combat mechanics for the last half. I also tend to run epic "What Goes Up" on normal.

 

[RangerOne]

Just make every quest a sliding scale like challenges. 1-40, you choose whatever you want.

 

[Enoach]

One of the arguments against the Reaper Trees was that it had the potential of making the higher reaper difficulties easier than the non-reaper difficulties. In some cases, even requiring the reaper points to even be successful.

It appears that concern was well founded.

If I was to make a suggestion it would be to make Reaper Difficulty achievements more cosmetic, giving more breakdowns in unlocking the cosmetic items.

 

[EdFactor]

Elite is almost always easier then R1. The damage mod and especially the self healing mod are significant. You may think its easier on R1 but every time i thought that and went in on Elite instead, Elite was always easier and considerably faster.

I do generally agree with your assessment that the game could use a good rebalancing.
But I think that would best be done by altering the existing difficulty levels.
Making a New Casual to equal the current Normal etc.

 

[Speed]

Too easy normal is your perspective and may not be valid for complete new players who have zero or very low knowledge about dnd system and quests, equip random trash items they found on their way and possibly play solo on such difficulty.
Elite and R1 is not a problem for first lifer, but experience and knowledge makes that huge difference.

You may always decide to not use reaper tree if it is easier than elite, skip all that ship buffs and your backup heal bots.

You do not have to pick up lost souls, so again it is all your decision.
Others say that casters are in sorry state or they run out of sp if they want fully focus on just casting on more hp bloated enemies when using higher difficulties.

If you play elite or R1 in groups, then it does not seem that they are looking for challenge, but more for easy quick completion.

Players have various preferences and experiences with current difficulty modes.
You can always decide how to make things harder for yourself and there are more options to do so than just difficulty setting.

 

[Phoenicis]

Too easy normal is your perspective and may not be valid for complete new players who have zero or very low knowledge about dnd system and quests, equip random trash items they found on their way and possibly play solo on such difficulty.
Elite and R1 is not a problem for first lifer, but experience and knowledge makes that huge difference.

You may always decide to not use reaper tree if it is easier than elite, skip all that ship buffs and your backup heal bots.

You do not have to pick up lost souls, so again it is all your decision.
Others say that casters are in sorry state or they run out of sp if they want fully focus on just casting on more hp bloated enemies when using higher difficulties.

If you play elite or R1 in groups, then it does not seem that they are looking for challenge, but more for easy quick completion.

Players have various preferences and experiences with current difficulty modes.
You can always decide how to make things harder for yourself and there are more options to do so than just difficulty setting.

Suggesting self imposed difficulty? Oh you sweet summer child.

*hands you a flameproof suit*

*RUNS*

 

[Sophie The Cat Burglar]

Please do not implement terrible suggestions based on incorrect information such as that in the original post. Stay in your own sandbox. Stay out of mine.

 

[Sol]

Too easy normal is your perspective and may not be valid for complete new players who have zero or very low knowledge about dnd system and quests, equip random trash items they found on their way and possibly play solo on such difficulty.
Elite and R1 is not a problem for first lifer, but experience and knowledge makes that huge difference.

You may always decide to not use reaper tree if it is easier than elite, skip all that ship buffs and your backup heal bots.

You do not have to pick up lost souls, so again it is all your decision.
Others say that casters are in sorry state or they run out of sp if they want fully focus on just casting on more hp bloated enemies when using higher difficulties.

If you play elite or R1 in groups, then it does not seem that they are looking for challenge, but more for easy quick completion.

Players have various preferences and experiences with current difficulty modes.
You can always decide how to make things harder for yourself and there are more options to do so than just difficulty setting.

This is fair, honestly. My perspective is probably biased.

Most of this idea came from the fact that I made a few first life characters with no racial points, exp boosts, twink gear, or even VIP. Playing without VIP, and thus the inability to open on Hard/Elite, was sorta the prime motivation.

I do have a few thousand hours in the game, but I've tried to bring friends in. Helped them with basic builds to achieve what they wanted and played with them (typically hanging back and not just blowing everything up and going in without guides so we can experience quests relatively blind). The feedback was universally a resounding 'normal is way too easy, I wish I could play on hard' from all of them (and, to keep it honest, this was only like 5 people and 3 of them don't play MMOs and none made it up past level 6~ because of the costs of quests and whatnot in the game, on top of boredom).

I love self restriction in games once they've become too easy, don't get me wrong, but circling back around I just think that the difficulty system is is inherently flawed and outdated to the modern balance of the game and trying to build on top of a outdated foundation typically causes more issues than it solves.

 

[Abax11]

I agree with the idea of a revamp in difficulty and just deleting casual, normal is pretty ok for a new player with crappy gear and no knowledge to learn the game. But don't agree with the idea of R1 easier than elite, or at least not in general because Reaper points don't affect everybuild the same.

For caster a couple of points + lost souls make a huge buff getting some HP, DCs and universal spell power. for melee a little extra melee power or defenses don't help a lot considering R1 mobs have more HP, damage and you deal less damage than elite,without taking into account reapers, and champions.

TBH i don't think all player base even play reaper or elite. And players who also play r10s are far less, maybe most of the people who post on forums do it but in game you found lot of people without doing it, at least on Orien.

 

[Oliphant]

Easiest and friendliest fix so new players have some challenge:

• New toons can open Hard
• 2nd Life's can open Elite
• 3rd Life's can open Reaper

 

[Shear-buckler]

Just letting all players open quests at any difficulty would go a long way.

 

[PersonMan]

Game too easy -> Enemies get more HP and do more damage -> Game too hard -> Players get more HP and do more damage -> repeat

 

[Speed]

Suggesting self imposed difficulty?

Thats what some players already do.
Possibly niche (I do not have reliable stats).

I do have a few thousand hours in the game, but I've tried to bring friends in. Helped them with basic builds to achieve what they wanted and played with them (typically hanging back and not just blowing everything up and going in without guides so we can experience quests relatively blind). The feedback was universally a resounding 'normal is way too easy, I wish I could play on hard' from all of them (and, to keep it honest, this was only like 5 people and 3 of them don't play MMOs and none made it up past level 6~ because of the costs of quests and whatnot in the game, on top of boredom).

There were two of you.
Even if you did not engage in combat, then you still helped with build and possibly understanding of some important basics plus good tips.
Most first few levels are indeed noticeably easier than later ones, so they play more like introduction.
You can always open quests with higher level than character or try lfm for "opener".

I would like to see possibility to open any difficulty by any character, but I guess it is VIP feature for first lifers.

I would like to see difficulty settings for wildernesses (even with limited benefits, just for some more challenge), because currently I personally have no fun to run them even on first lifers.

 

[Frieling Slyhand]

For new players who don’t know the game or have gear, casual and normal have a place. Just don’t play those difficulties if you find it too easy. It would be cool to add some new Reaper types and add a few more reaper difficulties.

I also would like too see more packs like the Ilithid with extreme challenge design.

 

[Br4d]

I'm so tired of hearing about the need for additional "challenge" when all people are really asking for is additional grind and loot.

Please don't do this again.

There is a simple solution to Reaper is too easy. Don't allocate your Reaper points and do not wear any gear with specific Reaper bonuses.

That would challenge most of the power gamers and the ones it wouldn't you cannot actually challenge with anything you do.