Paladin Inquisitive 14/4/2

[Krythan]

Sharing it here for feedback!

Inspired by Ljasonl's u73 Paladin Inquisitive (Youtube), I'm working on a version of the 14/4/2 Inquisitive build.

I wanted to share it here for feedback, ahead of our next life!

Differences:

Compared to Ljasonl's build, there are a few differences:

• Rapid Shot - We're adding in Rapid Shot earlier in the levels.
• Human - Since we don't yet have access to Eladrin, swapped in Human for the extra feat/skills.
• Rogue - Experimenting with the idea of swapping out Monk in favor for Rogue, for some additional Sneak Attack.
• Tomes - With limited + tomes, we had to adjust the base stats to compensive.
• Skills - Dropped a number of the trap-monkey skills in favor of general movement.
• Enhancements - With limited AP, we're adjusting the Enhancements and Destinies to account for a few less past lives... trying to make trade-offs where we can...

Edit: I've since made edits to the originally shared build, make sure to find the latest version in the comments of this thread.

Spoiler: See the version that was originally shared!

Summary:

Classes: 14 Paladin, 4 Artificer, 2 Rogue
Race: Human
Alignment: Lawful Good

Abilities (36 pt):

STR: 8
DEX: 16 + 3 Tome = 19 for Improved Precise Shot
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 18 + All Ability Score Increases

Note: You can increase/decrease DEX to account for which DEX tome you have, since you need 19 DEX for Improved Precise Shot.

Levels:

Level 1: Rogue
Level 2: Artificer
Level 3: Rogue
Levels 4-6: Artificer
Levels 7-20: Paladin

Why? Start as a Rogue for the bonus skill points. Second level as Artificer provides access to repeaters for early leveling. Third level as Rogue for Evasion. Next, get to the 4th level of Artificer for Tier 4 Battle Enginneer, then finish with all levels of Paladin.

Feats:

Level 1: Dodge (Human), Point Blank Shot
Level 3: Mobility
Level 6: Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run (Artificer)
Level 7: Follower of the Sovereign Host (Paladin)
Level 9: Precise Shot
Level 12: Improved Critical Ranged, Unyielding Sovereignty (Paladin)
Level 15: Precision
Level 18: Improved Precise Shot
Level 21: Combat Archery
Level 22: Holy Strike
Level 24: Overwhelming Critical
Level 25: Doubleshot
Level 27: Nimble Fingers
Level 28: Embodiment of Law
Level 30: Patience, Scion of Arborea
Level 31: Toughness
Level 33: Trick Shot
Level 34: Titan's Blood

Skills:

UMD, and Tumble. The remaining points can be spent in Jump, Balance, etc.

Enhancements

41 Inquisitive - For all of the usuals that Inquisitive has to offer!
23 Battle Engineer - Agility Engine for Doubleshot.
8 Knights of the Chalice - Divine Might for CHA Trance.
7 Feydark Illusionist - Familiar's Flourish II allows for CHA for to-hit and damage.

Note: If I had access to more AP at the moment, there's also some good damage to be found splashing into the Harper (Core 1), Human (Action Boost), and Assassin (Venomed Blades, Sneak Attack Training II) trees!

Destinies

Still working on these, but following Ljasonl's general suggestions of...

Sharadi - Stay Loud (for Harmonic)
Fatesinger - Harmonic, Pluck the String
Shadowdancer - Cover of Darkness, etc.

More on these Enhancements and Destines soon... still working on them...

What do you think? Without access to Eladrin (yet), any changes we can make to improve this build before we TR into it? Do we get enough value from Rogue's Sneak Attack that it's worth loosing the 2 feats that Monk has to offer?

 

[Defunct]

Consider Half Elf w/rogue dilettante, and take undying court for the religion.

I'd take patience at 21, nimble fingers closer to 20 (so you benefit straight from 20), take trick shot earlier. IMO CA & OC can wait.

Swap rogue levels for dragonlord to pick up cheap action boosts via ravager - even dropping DM to 1st tier to get it as another NHB is a net DPS increase, and you'll never run out of spell points.

Destinies are pretty set in stone for ranged DPS. Shiradi mantle & t5, FS for harmonic resonance & pluck the string & SD for all the good stuff.

Make an LGS INT & DEX skills swap. You can dump INT and get every trap & lock in the game with buffs & item swaps. There's no excuse

 

[unbongwah]

Abilities (36 pt):

STR: 8
DEX: 16 + 3 Tome = 19 for Improved Precise Shot
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 18 + All Ability Score Increases

This is 34 points, you actually have two more you can put into INT for more skill points if you want.

Human

Stats
. . . . . . . .34pt . . 36pt
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----
Strength. . . . .8. . . . 8
Dexterity . . . 16. . . .16
Constitution. . 14. . . .14
Intelligence. . 10. . . .12
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . . 8
Charisma. . . . 18. . . .18

Level 1: Rogue
Level 2: Artificer
Level 3: Rogue
Levels 4-6: Artificer
Levels 7-20: Paladin

I'd prefer to delay rogue 2 so I can stretch out the skill points more. Also so you get Shatter Defenses a level sooner.

Feats:

Level 1: Dodge (Human), Point Blank Shot
Level 3: Mobility
Level 6: Rapid Shot, Shot on the Run (Artificer)
Level 7: Follower of the Sovereign Host (Paladin)
Level 9: Precise Shot
Level 12: Improved Critical Ranged, Unyielding Sovereignty (Paladin)
Level 15: Precision
Level 18: Improved Precise Shot

IMO Shot on the Run is a weak feat considering the three-feat tax; Precise Shot and Precision are more important to take ASAP. Delay SotR or just skip it for the heroic feats you took in epics.

Level 21: Combat Archery
Level 22: Holy Strike
Level 24: Overwhelming Critical
Level 25: Doubleshot
Level 27: Nimble Fingers
Level 28: Embodiment of Law
Level 30: Patience, Scion of Arborea
Level 31: Toughness
Level 33: Trick Shot
Level 34: Titan's Blood

Ideally you take Nimble Fingers and Toughness as heroic feats - which is probably why that other build splashes monk instead of rogue - so you can move up your actual epic feats. Take Watchful Eye at 27 for the bonus Doubleshot from Shiradi.

8 Knights of the Chalice - Divine Might for CHA Trance.

You'll also want Exalted Shot.

 

[Kyrr]

You'll also want Exalted Shot.

No, no you don't. At cap 10% damage aoe shot doesn't do anything. The AP is already heavily tight with this split.

 

[Hobgoblin]

No, no you don't. At cap 10% damage aoe shot doesn't do anything. The AP is already heavily tight with this split.

it is an aoe shot no? does that help?

 

[Kyrr]

it is an aoe shot no? does that help?

It is an AoE shot but it's 10% damage and doesn't do much when it costs 2AP in a build that's already 80AP tight.

 

[Krythan]

I'd take patience at 21, nimble fingers closer to 20 (so you benefit straight from 20), take trick shot earlier

Good call! Let me make an updated version to share.

Make an LGS INT & DEX skills swap. You can dump INT and get every trap & lock in the game with buffs & item swaps. There's no excuse

Is this true even if you don't have the base points in the skills? As in, even if I don't have the INT for maxing the trap skills, should I get a few points into Open Lock, Disable Device, and Search?

This is 34 points, you actually have two more you can put into INT for more skill points if you want.

Whoops, thank you!

Ideally you take Nimble Fingers and Toughness as heroic feats - which is probably why that other build splashes monk instead of rogue - so you can move up your actual epic feats.

Good call. I'm seeing the merit why other builds have taken two levels of Monk (or Dragon Lord) instead.

I think I'll make an updated version with Monk, I don't get the sense that this build is currently getting a lot from the Rogue Sneak Attack.

...Take Watchful Eye at 27 for the bonus Doubleshot from Shiradi.

Good call about Watchful Eye! I didn't see the synergy there with Shiradi. That makes a lot more sense.

...thoughts on race? Since I don't have Eladrin, there are a few other second-best options, but this build doesn't have enough Enhancement Points to go deep enough into any Racial tree to truly take advantage of the race. I guess the feat/skills from Human is nice if you're not going to go too deep into any Enhancement trees...?

 

[Kyrr]

..thoughts on race? Since I don't have Eladrin, there are a few other second-best options, but this build doesn't have enough Enhancement Points to go deep enough into any Racial tree to truly take advantage of the race. I guess the feat/skills from Human is nice if you're not going to go too deep into any Enhancement trees...?

Depends on the content you play, if you don't have any racials to back up the character then it won't really matter. If you have a racial tome then any elf for +2% accuracy.

 

[Defunct]

Is this true even if you don't have the base points in the skills? As in, even if I don't have the INT for maxing the trap skills, should I get a few points into Open Lock, Disable Device, and Search?

You'd still need to level up the skills - some of the stuff in Lamordia has very high DC's.

What else would you spend your points in? You're CHA based so your UMD would be fine even with just one point in creation.

TBF, you might need an INT tome.. let's see.

Pally is 2 skill points per level and both search & disable are cross classed, so you'd need a +6 tome or better with 8 starting INT to be able to level up both.

It's honestly just for bonus points, and it is useful for looting crafting ingredients from packs like Lamordia & IoD. For open lock you can get away with just 4 points at creation & swap in DEX stats & DEX skills items (I use etheral gaze with a diamond of open lock for this. Boots from book burning are good too).

You can also cast prayer, scroll UMD, and hit skills boost - these add quite a bit

 

[Krythan]

Thanks for all the feedback! Here's the updated build:

This build is now even closer to Ljasonl's original u73 Paladin Inquisitive (Youtube)!

Changes:

1. Replaced the 2 Rogue levels for 2 Monk levels. Gives us more feats.
2. Add Deflect Arrows and Embodiment of Law Feats.
3. Adjusted the order of Feats, to gain Precision, and Precise Shot earlier.
4. Adjusted the order of Epic Feats, to gain Trick Shot earlier.
5. Drop Jump and Balance for more points in Search, Open Lock, and Disable Device.

Summary:

Classes: 14 Paladin, 4 Artificer, 2 Monk
Race: Human
Alignment: Lawful Good

Abilities (36 pt):

STR: 8
DEX: 16 + 3 Tome = 19 for Improved Precise Shot
CON: 14
INT: 10
WIS: 8
CHA: 18 + All Ability Score Increases

Note: Adjust DEX to account for which DEX tome is on the character, since 19 DEX is needed for Improved Precise Shot.

Skills:

UMD, Tumble > Search, Open Lock, Disable Device

Levels:

Level 1: Artificer
Level 2-3: Monk
Level 4-6: Artificer
Levels 7-20: Paladin

Feats:

Level 1: Dodge (Human), Point Blank Shot
Level 2: Deflect Arrows (Monk)
Level 3: Mobility, Precision (Monk)
Level 6: Precise Shot, Rapid Shot (Artificer)
Level 7: Follower of the Sovereign Host (Paladin)
Level 9: Shot on the Run
Level 12: Improved Critical Ranged, Unyielding Sovereignty (Paladin)
Level 15: Improved Precise Shot
Level 18: Nimble Fingers - For Shadowdancer bonus.
Level 21: Trick Shot
Level 22: Holy Strike
Level 24: Combat Archery
Level 25: Doubleshot
Level 27: Overwhelming Critical
Level 28: Embodiment of Law
Level 30: Patience, Scion of Arborea
Level 31: Toughness
Level 33: Watchful Eye - For Shiradi bonus.
Level 34: Titan's Blood


How's this look, thoughts!?

 

[unbongwah]

Level 31: Toughness

Is this supposed to be Legendary Toughness? If so, you'll need CON 21. If it's regular Toughness, I'd replace it with Legendary Aim, especially since you skipped Eerie Aim.

 

[Krythan]

Is this supposed to be Legendary Toughness? If so, you'll need CON 21. If it's regular Toughness, I'd replace it with Legendary Aim, especially since you skipped Eerie Aim.

Good call. I might need a better +X Tome for CON in order to quality for Legendary Toughness. For Legendary Toughness, could swap Deflect Arrows for Toughness (the pre-requisite), then use a CON Tome to meet the CON 21 requirement for Legendary Toughness.

In the meantime, I might swap Level 31's Toughness for Legendary Aim (good idea) or something like Defensive Tumble!

Additionally, the Child of Faith and Beloved of the Divine are an interesting choice for a combined +5 to-hit and +5 to damage, thanks to light crossbows being a simple weapon. They might not fit in the current build, but the fact that we get the full bonus due to using a simple weapon is at least interesting.

Same with Defensive Tumble, could be fun but doesn't quite fit.

 

[Krythan]

Additionally, Khysiria via Discord also provided some suggestions for this build:

1. Max DPS would take Harbinger at 31, and maybe Enhanced Elemental Dice or something at 34. But clearly there's some tradeoffs for most gameplay

2. Noted that Epic Toughness has normal Toughness as a pre-requisite but Legendary Toughness does not.

3. Consider using the Sacred Defender enhancement tree for 25 PRR/MRR and extra Lay of Hands.

4. Consider taking 4 combat style feats and a Toughness instead of Dodge/Mobility/Shot-on-the-Run, Nimble Fingers, and Holy Strike. Quote: "294 HP pre-scaling (323 at cap) vs 6 RP, 1d6 SA, and 0.5d6 against evil enemies? And 5% Fort Bypass post-23? Especially if you don't have a lot of PL's, Reaper Points, and Con stuff (given the build) it'll probably be like +20% HP or something... TWF [feats] is easiest for you since you have Dex for ranged feats. SWF is commonly good as well since it has no stat requirements (just a few Balance ranks)."

I think Khysiria had some good questions. I think we'll try the above build as the initial level up through a first pass of epics... and once we get to epic/legendary/higher reaper content we can re-evaluate the value of additional HP, and adjust the build as we do another Epic Reincarnation or two for Epic Past Lives.

 

[Vertigo]

Thanks for all the feedback! Here's the updated build:

How's this look, thoughts!?

no idea since you didn't posted EDs and enhancements layout. Only thing I wouldnt pick from what I saw, is trick shot. thats a dps-loss unless you found some secret sauce. edit.. also build like these area pain 'in the you know what' to play compared to similar options; so many buffs to keep up everytime you step inside a quest, 0% run speed. BUT... if you plan on some solo stuff and maybe raiding only the 14-4-2 variants could prove top contender. also would pick rogue instead of monk.

 

[Defunct]

Additionally, Khysiria via Discord also provided some suggestions for this build:

1. Max DPS would take Harbinger at 31, and maybe Enhanced Elemental Dice or something at 34. But clearly there's some tradeoffs for most gameplay

2. Noted that Epic Toughness has normal Toughness as a pre-requisite but Legendary Toughness does not.

3. Consider using the Sacred Defender enhancement tree for 25 PRR/MRR and extra Lay of Hands.

4. Consider taking 4 combat style feats and a Toughness instead of Dodge/Mobility/Shot-on-the-Run, Nimble Fingers, and Holy Strike. Quote: "294 HP pre-scaling (323 at cap) vs 6 RP, 1d6 SA, and 0.5d6 against evil enemies? And 5% Fort Bypass post-23? Especially if you don't have a lot of PL's, Reaper Points, and Con stuff (given the build) it'll probably be like +20% HP or something... TWF [feats] is easiest for you since you have Dex for ranged feats. SWF is commonly good as well since it has no stat requirements (just a few Balance ranks)."

I think Khysiria had some good questions. I think we'll try the above build as the initial level up through a first pass of epics... and once we get to epic/legendary/higher reaper content we can re-evaluate the value of additional HP, and adjust the build as we do another Epic Reincarnation or two for Epic Past Lives.

Defensively, these are good ideas, but they're all DPS losses and make the build worse.
Sure it's only 1d6 SA loss, except for the 150% scaling, or only 6 RP loss except for the 200% scaling imbue or 200% active attacks etc.

Where is OP going to find the AP for defender stance? Can't loose FI/KotC/Inq, so the points have to come out of BE. 25 sheltering for a build that is the easiest to keep out of danger ends up costing 10 DS & 3 imbue dice at minimum.

 

[Krythan]

Defensively, these are good ideas, but they're all DPS losses and make the build worse.

Thanks for the feedback! I think we'll know after some higher reaper quests whether or not we need to focus on DPS or increased defense/HP. TR'd last night, so I'll try the dodge/mobility/etc feats on the first build, then adjust as need be upon our next ER based on how it plays in the reality of reaper.

For Defender Stance? Not sure where the AP would come from. I think it'd be something temporary just for a few levels during the Heroic leveling process... but I haven't looked at when or how. It might be something I try out just for fun during Heroic, then reset all the Enhancements back to the original plan sometime in the high-teens of levels.

 

[unbongwah]

Your baseline AP spread will probably be 41 Inquisitive / 13 Battle Engineer / 7 Feydark / 6 KotC. That leaves 13-15 APs left to spread. Whether you go all-in on DPS or put some into survival bonuses is up to you.

 

[Krythan]

Your baseline AP spread will probably be 41 Inquisitive / 13 Battle Engineer / 7 Feydark / 6 KotC. That leaves 13-15 APs left to spread. Whether you go all-in on DPS or put some into survival bonuses is up to you.

Sounds like a plan. And, I'll play around with different allocations. The nice part is that Enhancements are easy to reset.

In Ljasonl's build, they were using:

41 Inquisitive
7 Feydark Illusionist.
17 Eladrin
23 Battle Engineer (Agility Engine)
9 Knights of the Chalice (Longer Divine Might)
1 Hensin Mystic
1 Harper

In my case, while I don't have as much Racial AP, I also don't have Eladrin - so won't need to go as far into the Racial tree - giving me a few points to play around with!

 

[Vertigo]

with the updated dex-etc and nerf to inq and arti, racial AP´s might not be as tight as before -- still not seen a dex arti/inq posted.... no idea why you think eladrin is the op race. but that is another discussion.. perhaps. Heaviest DPS in most straight up scenarios was arti with 41 in inq, 34 BE, rest in Aasimar as arti. broke 20 million mark on the scorp (2 min EE). (with the recent nerfs its down to 14-15 million on an inq... and I bet the same on artis and I would give arti a break despite that certain test as I´m not sure uptime on helpless and anorher think I wont mention due to wine consumption)

 

[Jeronimo]

Sounds like a plan. And, I'll play around with different allocations. The nice part is that Enhancements are easy to reset.

In Ljasonl's build, they were using:

41 Inquisitive
7 Feydark Illusionist.
17 Eladrin
23 Battle Engineer (Agility Engine)
9 Knights of the Chalice (Longer Divine Might)
1 Hensin Mystic
1 Harper

In my case, while I don't have as much Racial AP, I also don't have Eladrin - so won't need to go as far into the Racial tree - giving me a few points to play around with!

Would it be possible to use Dragonlord instead of Monk/Rogue? You'd get +1 feat and for 8 AP you'd get +3% double shot and +3 action boosts (for more NHB).