Please no "silver bullets" in DDO

[Chacka]

I know some players will like me even less than they already do when I bring up this topic, but I don't appreciate the inclusion of abilities like "Elemental Apotheosis" or "Weakening Mixture" that make certain creatures vulnerable to specific elements for a limited time. For example, iron golems suddenly being harmed by fire, despite normally being healed by it. This completely breaks the immersion of the game, as it disregards the concept of monsters having unique weaknesses and strengths. It equalizes all monsters when it comes to damage, even in cases where it doesn't make sense thematically (especially considering the current bugs with these mechanics). The same issue applies, albeit in a weaker form, to the Holy Power ability of clerics. It's disheartening to see a devil being killed by Unholy Blight as if it were an angel, or vice versa with Holy Smite.
While players should have means to defeat monsters, it's okay if it's occasionally difficult and challenging. In early versions of DDO, Iron Golems were practically immune to all magic, except for a few exceptions like Disintegrate and Comet Fall (physical and untyped damage, regardless of the source being divine or arcane magic).
I don't suggest returning to the extreme difficulty of the past, but the current plan of the DDO developers to provide every caster with a "silver bullet" feels misguided to me.
Allow me to provide an example of how I would improve the situation (I always aim to offer constructive suggestions rather than just criticism). For instance, I can envision sorcerers receiving a passive ability similar to the Pale Master tree for wizards. They would gain access to their elemental form much earlier (similar to how Pale Masters obtain their undead form at level 3). They could then switch between at least two elements, and upon changing their element, they would automatically learn certain sorcerer spells that are related to that element. I'm not particularly fond of Spell-Like Abilities (SLAs) in general, but they could be used in this case as well.
There's much more I could discuss, but I hope the general idea is clear.

 

[Buddha5440]

Agreed.

Difficulty should be in trying to figure out how to succeed in a difficult situation (and the answer is not Reaper Points/Past lives). That solution should require thought, not grind.

Simply copying/pasting a mob with 30k HP and calling it EPIC doesn't work. We need true EPIC monsters and actual challenges that are random enough that there won't be a solution on the wiki a day after they come out.

 

[AustrianDeathMachine]

If you don't like it, don't use it . That is the beauty of this game if there are aspects that you don't like, you don't have to use them.

Just don't call out for everyone else to be forced to your vision of how the game should be. Just because you don't like does not mean everyone else thinks like you do.

If they do, then they are also able to not use that aspect of the game.

You also don't have to group with people who want to use that aspect of the game. If it bothers you that much.

 

[Xgya]

I was okay when they added it to Druids.
It made Druids unique, and (normal) Druids are oddly bad at keeping to a single element, so not THAT overpowered. It also costs a precious 9th level spell slot.

Adding it to Sorcerers and (especially) Alchemists though? THAT was a bit much.

 

[Arkat]

I know some players will like me even less than they already do when I bring up this topic, but I don't appreciate the inclusion of abilities like "Elemental Apotheosis" or "Weakening Mixture" that make certain creatures vulnerable to specific elements for a limited time. For example, iron golems suddenly being harmed by fire, despite normally being healed by it. This completely breaks the immersion of the game, as it disregards the concept of monsters having unique weaknesses and strengths. It equalizes all monsters when it comes to damage, even in cases where it doesn't make sense thematically (especially considering the current bugs with these mechanics). The same issue applies, albeit in a weaker form, to the Holy Power ability of clerics. It's disheartening to see a devil being killed by Unholy Blight as if it were an angel, or vice versa with Holy Smite.
While players should have means to defeat monsters, it's okay if it's occasionally difficult and challenging. In early versions of DDO, Iron Golems were practically immune to all magic, except for a few exceptions like Disintegrate and Comet Fall (physical and untyped damage, regardless of the source being divine or arcane magic).
I don't suggest returning to the extreme difficulty of the past, but the current plan of the DDO developers to provide every caster with a "silver bullet" feels misguided to me.
Allow me to provide an example of how I would improve the situation (I always aim to offer constructive suggestions rather than just criticism). For instance, I can envision sorcerers receiving a passive ability similar to the Pale Master tree for wizards. They would gain access to their elemental form much earlier (similar to how Pale Masters obtain their undead form at level 3). They could then switch between at least two elements, and upon changing their element, they would automatically learn certain sorcerer spells that are related to that element. I'm not particularly fond of Spell-Like Abilities (SLAs) in general, but they could be used in this case as well.
There's much more I could discuss, but I hope the general idea is clear.

Yes

 

[Chacka]

If you don't like it, don't use it . That is the beauty of this game if there are aspects that you don't like, you don't have to use them.

Just don't call out for everyone else to be forced to your vision of how the game should be. Just because you don't like does not mean everyone else thinks like you do.

If they do, then they are also able to not use that aspect of the game.

You also don't have to group with people who want to use that aspect of the game. If it bothers you that much.

As I mentioned earlier, I know that expressing such ideas may not help me make friends.

However, I strongly disagree with this attitude. Players have the right to have their own vision for the game they play and to contribute ideas they believe will improve it. This applies even if those ideas make the game more difficult or less convenient for players. I also enjoy playing as a sorcerer class, which is more convenient and easier to play with a "silver bullet," but it just doesn't feel right to me.

Additionally, it seems like you are contradicting your own rule here. You have a "vision" that the current status quo is acceptable because you like having these "silver bullets." While this opinion is understandable, I believe that no one should have such advantages, and I have the same right as you to have a different opinion. If the developers were to agree with my opinion and make changes to the game, I believe it would become better.

In my view, a game should be challenging enough to be fun. However, if you increase the difficulty, it should only be done if it enhances the quality of the game. I believe this is one such case.

As a player, it is natural to come up with ideas that make the game less difficult and more convenient. However, I don't want to miss the opportunity to provide an idea that can make DDO more difficult while simultaneously improving it (in my humble opinion) when I have such an idea.

Regarding your argument that if I don't like it, I should simply choose not to use it while allowing others to use it if they want to, I believe it is flawed. It's similar to when a player reports a bug that gives an advantage, and other players who exploit the bug tell you not to use it if you don't like it and suggest not playing with those who do and not reporting that bug.

I think this "silver bullet" makes the game worse and too easy for everyone who makes use of it, just for example as it would if item duplication were possible. This issue should be addressed and fixed. However, I understand that this is only my opinion, and no one is obligated to agree with it, even though I consider it to be well-founded.

 

[The Narc]

I like the idea of making things more challenging and certainly anything that hampers AOE room clearing casters is signed by me.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

FWIW I agree with the OP. I get not everyone will. But that doesn't mean the OP or those who disagree with them, shouldn't be allowed to post their opinion, and have it debated.

The "don't force your playstyle on everyone else" is fair enough I guess - except afaict it isn't everyone else here. It's redressing something, I for one, think was a mistake to introduce.

On a purely practical level, filtering who you run with doesn't really work. I mean, we'd likely all end up soloing!

Anyway it"s nice to know I'm apparently not alone in my view on this. Even if it's just two of us!

 

[FaustianBargain]

I’m on the fence to an extent because I get that it seems to be an easy button. I do think it’s bad to go from a damage type healing to actually damaging as well like the golem example.

But… in tabletop there are/were ways to bypass immunity. Think the feat Energy Substitution which would change the damage from an element to a different element, so you could pick Fire spells and choose to make them Lightning or Acid or whatever situationally. Or there were other ways to change half the damage to untyped, negative, etc. So it’s not something wholly unprecedented that a caster specializing in <element> could bypass immunity or resistance. It just stands out in this particular game we play because casters have some noticeable advantages.

Having said that, implementing it that way in the context of this game would be a challenge, because most of the time you’d be using cold but somehow the game would need to know you’re now using acid in this circumstance and apply any spellpower modifiers for acid vs cold.

Maybe a compromise solution more in line with tabletop would be to go the untyped damage route - if there’s an immune enemy cut the damage in half and apply as untyped damage. Against trash that might not be a big deal, but against bosses it might drive you to pick your spell rotation and supporting enhancements & gear more thoughtfully so you don’t take that loss to damage output.

 

[Aragadi]

Sure, just as long as they remove fortification bypass, the ability to strip sneak attack immunity, and all those augments/feats that let you bypass damage reduction with your favorite weapons, remove it all or none of it.

 

[Palumtra]

Ok, folks will just Assasinate/Prismatic Spray/Frog/Hurl Trough Hell instead.

 

[Arcanaverse]

A design philosophy, that I personally feel was a mistake, for a long time, especially at the end of Turbine and early SSG seemed to be that they prefer us to do one thing and one thing only . So, you're not just a Sorcerer, but a Fire Sorcerer. My thinking towards why they want this because its how the planned to get people to group with each other.

At least for the folks looking to do high end content. This would get them to work together and group up to cover each other's weakness. Trouble is, that mentality trickles down to the more casual levels. When they ask, "what is good" they get the answer from those doing the hardest stuff.

Which leads to players getting stuck. Them needing an option to overcome hard stops. Which is why I imagine caved and gave the one trick pony's a way to continue.

Having a way around an immunity or having silver-bullets can be used in a positive manner. For example, unlike the Sorc and Alch who bypass immunity passively (only losing a spell or a portion of spell), Tieflings or Artificer offer some decent examples of a way to overcome their weaknesses with more interactive game play.

The adjustment I'd recommend though its to not grant full damage. In fact, this could be turned into a new stat. Something like Absorption Bypass.. This is to keep a balance with builds that don't take advantage of silver-bullet. So if you're all in on a one element build, you have an answer. If you're explore other options beyond your primary, those should be as, if not more, effective.

Of course the above is a very over-simplified explanation. A lot more thought goes into those types of decisions that I could possibly mention in a single post. At the end of the day, I agree immunity bypass is a problem but removing silver bullets as a whole doesn't feel like the answer either.

 

[EinarMal]

Sure as long as they remove DR bypass, fort bypass, sneak attack strip, and other "silver bullets". They should probably add about 30% of mobs that are immune to physical damage since at least 30% of mobs are immune to instant killing spells.

 

[Br4d]

It'd be nice if they added a server with no totally OP stuff at all. This would probably extend DDO's lifespan dramatically.

However, nobody has done this in any game because the paradigm has always been to sell OPeen to prop the players and get them to keep buying in. This is true in virtually every MMO at this point. The great games are non-existent because the great challenges are similarly non-existent.

 

[Roggen]

What's next? Maybe a giant laser I can hit at the start of a quest that will kill everything in the dungeon.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

Sure as long as they remove DR bypass, ...

This doesn't exist. There are 4 alignments, 6 metal types and 3 damage types for physical damage. Weapons generally come with 1-3, or up to ~6 if you count augments slots. In order to completely bypass DR you will need to swap weapons at some point (just like casters would need to swap spell types). Hence the main argument against casters having blanket immunitiy stripping...

 

[The Narc]

This doesn't exist. There are 4 alignments, 6 metal types and 3 damage types for physical damage. Weapons generally come with 1-3, or up to ~6 if you count augments slots. In order to completely bypass DR you will need to swap weapons at some point (just like casters would need to swap spell types). Hence the main argument against casters having blanket immunitiy stripping...

I Agree

 

[Aragadi]

I think you are missing the point, I am in the middle of leveling as a rouge at level 26, I just ran Wiz-King this morning on r4 solo, and murdered him in under a minute. I got a 6k base damage crit with over 1k sneak attack damage off of adrenaline on a monster that is supposed to be immune to crits and sneak attacks, an air or water savant would likely run out of spell points before killing him if not for immunity stripping. If you don't want spell casters to be able to do this fine, go ahead and remove it, as long as every other class is getting equal treatment. No bypassing any obstacles put in the way of any dps anywhere, if you run into something you just can't kill, you have to rely on someone else to do it for you.

 

[calouscaine]

Also consider that normal higher end mobs get random buffs that make no sense, so. . .in a way it makes perfect sense for players to have such abilities. Well, I run things on hard - reaper, so lots of mobs get random nonsense buffs. . .and lets not forget the rng with bows that give incite or amulets with protection from evil +0 . . .and so on and so forth.
My stance is simply let people play characters they want to play. Who really cares if they're the highest dps or can damage something. The game is to have fun, adventure, and beat monsters. Not constantly have to rotate gear and become a second job just to go through a dungeon.

 

[Tyrande]

This doesn't exist. There are 4 alignments, 6 metal types and 3 damage types for physical damage. Weapons generally come with 1-3, or up to ~6 if you count augments slots. In order to completely bypass DR you will need to swap weapons at some point (just like casters would need to swap spell types). Hence the main argument against casters having blanket immunitiy stripping...

It doth exist. What do you call Metaline of Aligned weapons. They will hit anything. Example: Thirteen and Legendary Thirteen from Morgrave U chain 2. There is your silver bullet weapon with 7 augment slots.