Please Remove ICD on Dark Imbuement

Rub-A-Dub-Dub

Well-known member
Just for the record, when DI was double dipping on u51, I and a few others all built pure monk throwers using DI. With 1k force power bursting. It took immense sacrifice to get that, mostly in terms of rp and raw damage, but it worked because it was more powerful back then, than it would be now by removing the ICD. Melee are harder to gear for than ranged due to having to slot more attributes, tactics, and defenses. And this thread has to suffer an archer telling people that he is going to wear a full nuker set up on his rogue or dark hunter. It will still be behind shifter anyway lmao. This is why people never improve. Please consider moving to Khyber or Argo. They will help you.
 

Rub-A-Dub-Dub

Well-known member
well could be worse Imagine he was from wayfinder
Ooph!

Just to show receipts : Thrower bane damage at around 1k force bursting on ship canon U51. I know first hand as do others just how much damage is lost to get a monk thrower to 1k force power. Because I actually built and played one, unlike some random bad archer

I6ZFDxG.png
 

I dont Like gimps

Well-known member
Ooph!

Just to show receipts : Thrower bane damage at around 1k force bursting on ship canon U51. I know first hand as do others just how much damage is lost to get a monk thrower to 1k force power. Because I actually built and played one, unlike some random bad archer

I6ZFDxG.png
gosh that was ridicilous on rogue before they fixed the double scale I remember dealing Like 1k a hit in r10s on my rogue (400 sp sucks lul didnt know about it at first and didnt even attempt to build for it hehe)
 

Monkey_Archer

Well-known member
Less than having to build a spell powered rogue. Build your doookie build. Give me the file. You copy pasted every spell power source and set thinking youre going to gear, ap, and feat your build like that. no wonder youre on thelanis
File? Why do you need a file? I posted the entire break down of melee power vs spell power. I posted the gear sets and the tetris considerations of using them. I did the math on the unboosted numbers, Teth did the math on the boosted numbers. If you don't understand that's fine... but all you've posted is gibberish about adrenaline queuing, random insults, and "my server is better that yours" :LOL:

This is why people never improve. Please consider moving to Khyber or Argo. They will help you.
Anyone from any server is welcome to criticize or correct anything I may have got wrong. You still haven't done that though... 🙄

Just to show receipts : Thrower bane damage at around 1k force bursting on ship canon U51. I know first hand as do others just how much damage is lost to get a monk thrower to 1k force power. Because I actually built and played one, unlike some random bad archer
Your information is outdated. Getting to 1k force in U51 is not the same as now....
 

I dont Like gimps

Well-known member
File? Why do you need a file? I posted the entire break down of melee power vs spell power. I posted the gear sets and the tetris considerations of using them. I did the math on the unboosted numbers, Teth did the math on the boosted numbers. If you don't understand that's fine... but all you've posted is gibberish about adrenaline queuing, random insults, and "my server is better that yours" :LOL:


Anyone from any server is welcome to criticize or correct anything I may have got wrong. You still haven't done that though... 🙄


Your information is outdated. Getting to 1k force in U51 is not the same as now....
are those gearsets u mentioned in this room Right now? Like idk where u posted em but not here xd
 

Monkey_Archer

Well-known member
Mans copy pasted the wiki page of spell power and thinks he made a gear set.
Sigh... here I go quoting my own post to someone who cant/wont read it anyway...
If you could read my post, you'd see that I'm not listing every source of spell power at all (that would be ~1500 and would indeed be a gimped build that's not worth mentioning) I only listed what is easily achievable with sora kell+dread+windlasher+ravens+3xSA augment.... which is pretty standard for impue/spell scaling dps builds now. If you understand endgame gear tetris for dps builds you would know the 3 options: either do the above (or similar) which includes literally every artifact bonus relevant to dps, or you have some m3/r3 gear that allows you to give up an artifact set bonus from the crafted items and come out ahead, or you fit in class specific gear like thorn boots which is not relevant to the rogue build in question.
 

Ahpuch

Well-known member
Something like 10d6 with 200% MP/RP scaling would be a fair adjustment. ie ~600 damage on hit or ~3k dps for TWF.

Just removing the ICD would allow for ~3k damage per swing or ~15k additional dps.... adrenaline doesn't even come close to this...
There are more variables to play with than # of dice. Leave it at = # SA dice and play with the 200% MP or the duration or the die size. Setting it flat 10d6 opens it up to be equivalent for all melee and boring and not terribly interesting for characters with SA.
 

Monkey_Archer

Well-known member
There are more variables to play with than # of dice. Leave it at = # SA dice and play with the 200% MP or the duration or the die size. Setting it flat 10d6 opens it up to be equivalent for all melee and boring and not terribly interesting for characters with SA.
Yeah the 10d6 was a lowball. Full SA scaling with 100% melee power and no ICD would be a good change. For the force scaling version I'd say lower the ICD to 0.5 so spell scaling throwers can use it as the OP requested.
 

Monkey_Archer

Well-known member
If you're just going to be mostly civil in your replies then that defeats me. I am in my element slinging mud, but I need a willing participant.
Rub-A-Dumb-Dumb? (I dunno, I'm bad at this :))
There are not that many open slots because of the 14 equipment slots available, 11 must be dedicated to sets for : sora 3 pc, lasher/raven 3pc, dread 5pc.

Where is exceptional spellpower coming from, because that is either trinkets ( which is locked for facets ), or clouded dreams ( which is locked with dual sora rings )? Doubt this one gets slotted.

I wouldn't give up goldfang in the dread armor slot because that is a higher return than spellpower ( 2d6 profane sneak ). Anytime 2 sets of numbers are being multiplied the higher return is always on increasing the smaller number of the set, which is the sneak dice versus the multiple hundreds of spell power. Which also means giving up filigree for magic power is not something I want to do, and getting sneak dice with damage and/or melee power from filigree is going to end up with the higher returns.

How are you slotting artifact force because that is only on 3 piece sets. Unless I am missing something, otherwise this also does not get slotted? Artifact universal is covered by sora set, profane by dread.
Sorry, I meant 3 open slots + 2 dread items that can be moved around.
I already conceded that artifact force is likely not possible without giving something up, and you may have stumped me on exceptional 15 as well. Clouded dreams does seem like the only option so its probably not worth it. Thinking more on this though, If you are building a spell power rogue you could easily put 1 point in feydark for 10 force and might consider primal mantle for another 30. Although I'd have to math out the melee power loss vs procs given that we wont have as much poison spell power. (and immunity concerns)
Speaking of dread, it's : necklace for insightful impulse, 2 daggers, raid light armor, and that leaves the final 5th slot. Which artifact is being used?

If wearing hunter cloak for quality deception and quality seeker ( + relentless fury ), then the gear set still needs to cover : Insightful sheltering, seeker, insightful seeker, quality deadly, insightful accuracy, insightful doublestrike, quality int, insightful assassinate, quality assassinate.

Raven gloves for seeker or the raven eyes? Lasher on boots for assassinate and alacrity?

No way to grab artifact prr here since it is slotting 3d6 sneak augment set.


Edit: Slotting Raven and Lasher on eyes + boots? Bracers for vambrace gets insightful seeker and insightful dstrike? Seeker into dino necklace. Insightful sheltering on stormreaver gauntlets? Deception on artifact. Insightful accuracy on trinket? That leaves out quality int, insightful assassinate, quality assassinate, quality deadly.
Given that arrangement you could drop the gauntlets for sora kell, which frees up a ring for band of insightful commands+insightful assassinate on gomf, or ring of the silver tongue. DCs vs dps is going to be a preference choice and/or situational swap. Still missing quality int/dex but a 1.5/0.75 damage loss is very minor at this point. I'm looking at a few variations that could keep the assassinate dcs up but they all seem to end up losing a quality stats, so dropping 3 int/dex seems like the best option dps wise.
So we're at basically every dps stat -3int, and 910-940+ spell power depending on how the primal mantle math works out? Not perfect, but there may be more improvements I'm missing, or an entirely different gear set that works better.
 

Rub-A-Dub-Dub

Well-known member
put 1 point in feydark for 10 force and might consider primal mantle for another 30.
For quests most builds can get away with doing almost anything, they can go wild and stack imbues and spellpower. I think for higher reaper raids that LD tier 5 + mantle is unbeatable due to regenerating haste boosts. Can't see myself giving up maximum use of the single best dps engine.

This has the planner on (in reaper) ; 41 dice, 101 dstrike (rapid slash), 75~ mrr :( , 97~ assassinate dc, 240~ prr (70%), 280 mp before anything is used like measure, boosts, potions, etc. 915 force power with eye of lamania, wellspring, reaper boost + 20 profane, and potions. Intelligence at 88 under action boost. 3.7k hit points. Tenser included for prr/hp stats.

lY3kjvr.png


Heroic AP probably looks like this : 43 in Assassin because while shaving down harper to 6 and assassin to 41 allows for vistani fortune and a higher ceiling, having measure the foe in 5 seconds versus 20 is much faster acceleration. Any deaths or reasons causing me to not be able to stealth makes that 15 second gap larger and larger. For raids I think it is forced to take vistani fortune and drink a store mrr potion to get to 95 (maybe another 5 from mythic/reaper gear gets it to 100mrr). Shadar for chains cuts into int score but it's chains, so.

8Vzyfte.png


Maybe slot fire and acid absorb on trinket prefix and suffix. Fire covers the latest 2 raids. Evil absorb would require giving up 3 dstrike on the dino armor for fragment of extraplanar alignment, dropping dstrike to 98. Going with your gloves, band, + insightful dc on trinket suggestion .

Gear and filigree :
5aind7Q.png



Feats :
925mIUJ.png


All in all it still doesnt beat the Boss Blender 9000.
 

Monkey_Archer

Well-known member
For quests most builds can get away with doing almost anything, they can go wild and stack imbues and spellpower. I think for higher reaper raids that LD tier 5 + mantle is unbeatable due to regenerating haste boosts. Can't see myself giving up maximum use of the single best dps engine.
Valid, but I would definitely take a few points out of SD for primal mantle anyway. Quick math has it at about ~4k dps total before debuffs whereas dread mantle +15 melee power is closer to 1k. Force proc doesn't multiply much but acid works on most things and you can bypass poison immunity. Then just swap to dread mantle when you start running out of boosts in longer raids.
For raids I think it is forced to take vistani fortune and drink a store mrr potion to get to 95 (maybe another 5 from mythic/reaper gear gets it to 100mrr). Shadar for chains cuts into int score but it's chains, so.
Insightful MRR on gomf is another option.
All in all it still doesnt beat the Boss Blender 9000.
Perhaps true, but its basically a decent semi-debuffer build on live already even without the ICD change. Give up adrenaline dps, but gain ~3k back in primal mantle, extra elemental absorption, shadowdancer debuffs for the party and LD t5 :)
 

Rub-A-Dub-Dub

Well-known member
Perhaps true, but its basically a decent semi-debuffer build on live already even without the ICD change. Give up adrenaline dps, but gain ~3k back in primal mantle, extra elemental absorption, shadowdancer debuffs for the party and LD t5
I'd be happy to try it. Also, it would give repeaters a real epic strike even without a ton of sneak dice. Hunt's has a problem on repeaters that only the first bolt to roll a hit gives the extra damage. Inquisitive gets both hands to proc it. And I dont think anyone is going to wow people with repeater dps. It would also give non-dws throwers (namely pure monk shuri) something to use since they cannot combo sniper + hunt.
 

Viamel

Well-known member
It would be nice to have any alternative to Hunts End on a thrower. That would be possible with a boost to Shadow strike in Shadow Dancer. I imagine it's the same with TWF builds and this ability. The ICD significantly reduces the damage of SD vs Shiradi.
I'm not gonna read the whole thread, forgive me if this has been said already.

The ICD on Dark Imbuement means that the epic strike is only good for the debuff. As someone who mostly plays TWF builds, I'd love it if the ability in the rogue tree worked effectively for the main fighting style of that class. Even if it had off-hand proccing it would be behind adren for most builds and only really competitive with Adren for builds that focus on stacking sneak dice, that's the perfect balance window right there.

To that end, I'd also love it if Dark Imbuement could include a multi-selector where it would scale off your imbuement dice instead of your SA dice, it would be perfectly on flavor and open up shadowdancer more for other builds.

Also please for the love of god just make Weird an SLA so I can use T5 Shadowdancer on an assassin and not hate my life.
 

Viamel

Well-known member
Edit: And Rub is wrong and misinformed, its only 2 adrenalines per 16 seconds not 3. Idk why he saying that.
Hit Adren, wait, run up to enemy whack it, hit adren, whack, wait 8s, hit adren, whack?
You can arguably enjoy 3 on a test Kobold or a mob chunky enough that your first 2 adrens didn't kill it already. It's not fair to include it in a comparative calculation for boss dps though.
 

rabidfox

The People's Champion
To that end, I'd also love it if Dark Imbuement could include a multi-selector where it would scale off your imbuement dice instead of your SA dice, it would be perfectly on flavor and open up shadowdancer more for other builds.
Imbue dice as an option instead of SA dice + no ICD (or at least very low ICD) so it would proc on all of my reapeter bolts. YES PLEASE! I still wouldn't be amazed by my arti's repeater damage, but any little bits I can eek out would be nice.
 
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