Please remove trances

[Kyloz]

This topic has been posted before but genuinely I do not understand why trances are still in the game.


-They are not fun to build your character around
-They do not have an animation or any visual effects
-Some of them straight up don't work every time last I checked. I remember the last time I played horizon walker they only activated sometimes and consumed a charge (not a problem for every trance)
-It is boring design
-Some builds require you to swap to a stat stick before activating a trance, this sucks! no one likes this.
-You cannot move around the UI so having to look every few minutes to see if my tiny trance buff icon is still active is annoying.
-They are required (especially in the newest expansion) for builds at endgame. This locks you into certain build paths and is completely a avoidable problem designed by SSG


Solution 1: Remove trances and bring down some of the stats of monsters to compensate.
Solution 2: Make them last much longer, 5 or 10m would be nice, it can have less charges.
Dark Solution: Give every class a trance and make it activate off whatever your highest stat is instead of a fixed stat.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Developer Response: Trances — We Have Heard Your Feedback

Thank you for the detailed feedback regarding trances. After extensive internal discussion, several spreadsheets, and one extremely concerning meeting that lasted 47 minutes, we have determined that the problem with trances is not that they are annoying, mandatory, poorly communicated, or occasionally unreliable.

The problem is that not enough systems depend on them yet.

Therefore, in Update 81.1.2, we are introducing the following changes:

Trances​

• Trances have been removed.
• We understand this may seem like a dramatic solution. Fortunately, we have compensated for the removal by adding their functionality to 17 new items, 6 enhancement trees, 3 legendary sets, and one hireling who refuses to explain himself.
• To activate any of these effects, you must first equip a stat stick, remove your weapon, jump twice, open your character sheet, and whisper the name of your primary attribute into your microphone.

We feel this is much cleaner.

Inquisitive​

Inquisitive has been buffed to compensate for the removal of trances.

• Since Inquisitive players will no longer have to spend valuable time looking for a tiny icon on their buff bar, we are giving them that time back in the form of additional doubleshot.
• In fact, ranged characters will now receive twice as much Doubleshot as before.
• We have carefully determined that ranged builds were not doing enough damage, primarily by observing ranged builds deleting bosses before the melee players could finish typing "LFM."

To address this discrepancy, we have increased ranged damage until the combat log becomes less of a log and more of a historical archive.

Vistani Knife Fighter​

Vistani Knife Fighter has also been buffed. We felt it was important that removing trances not disproportionately affect people who were already throwing approximately 900 knives per second at the screen. Vistani Knife Fighter now receives:

• +40% additional knife
• +25% bonus knife per knife
• A passive effect called Knife Again
• A new ability called More Knife
• An enhancement called We Have Considered This and Added Another Knife

The capstone now has a 10% chance to throw an additional knife every time you throw an additional knife.

We expect this to be very healthy for server performance.

Bows​

We have identified bows as a major source of lag. After extensive testing, we discovered that the problem was that arrows were traveling through the air too quickly.

• Therefore, bows are now slower.
• Significantly slower.
• An arrow fired from a longbow will now take approximately 14 seconds to reach its target, giving the server ample time to process the projectile.

This will also allow players to admire the arrow. As a further optimization, arrows will now occasionally stop in midair to think about what they're doing.

Kukris​

We recognize that slowing bows creates an obvious balance problem for ranged builds.

• To compensate, kukris now use a 1d10 damage die.

Oooh! You B....!

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

It would not.

All it would mean is even less choices for endgame builds and would thus just further distill the effective options down to a few specific classes.

Sure, certain universal trees need to be tweaked slightly, but nuking all of them won’t fix the problem. Doing that would just shift the existing the problems a few points to the left so to speak.

Less choice is bad, more choices is good. The choices simply need to have some semblance of balance across them.

Not when the choice is an illusion. Inq and VKF are just too powerful for many builds to choose anything else. I was being a bit tounge in cheek, and I don't seriously thinks the Devs will bin universal trees (or trances for that matter), but I do think there is a bit of a problem when universal trees outshine class trees. I'd definitely like to see them dialled back a bit.

 

[woq]

5min duration trance would go a long way to making them more enjoyable to use.

Removing them without adjusting to-hit requirements in end-game would be ill advised. IMO martial toons and especially melee characters - are almost unplayable in the new content without class trance sourced to-hit bonuses and a number of AC dropping effects. You graze a lot even after debuffing on some key beefy enemies, leading to crits being eaten and low damage in general. Losing that to-hit would really hurt especially people without giga raid filigreed up weapons.

It's already to the point where I see some people swing at a boss enemy and the HP bar just doesn't move cuz they're grazing on most of them.

 

[Smokewolf]

hey hey i want less trances not more...

I'm making the point that trances only benefit Martials. Thus either have a version for Casters too, or remove them from play entirely.

 

[seph1roth5]

Solution 4: Provide Spell Power and DC trances for Casters.

They did that, but unfortunately requires you to block for 3 sec. Yeah there's a trick to it but it's still super annoying and a giant pain in the ass to keep up.

 

[Smokewolf]

They did that, but unfortunately requires you to block for 3 sec. Yeah there's a trick to it but it's still super annoying and a giant pain in the ass to keep up.

That's NOT a trance but a feat tax with a blocking requirement to unlock a minor performance gain. Meanwhile, it does the worst thing physically possible to a Caster... Slows them down.

Please keep in mind that Casters already struggle to keep up with Martials through even basic content, much less Reaper. IMO this feat is a big middle-finger from SSG's, nothing more.

 

[Kimbere]

Not when the choice is an illusion. Inq and VKF are just too powerful for many builds to choose anything else. I was being a bit tounge in cheek, and I don't seriously thinks the Devs will bin universal trees (or trances for that matter), but I do think there is a bit of a problem when universal trees outshine class trees. I'd definitely like to see them dialled back a bit.

You obviously didn't fully read my post if that's your response. I literally said the trees need some semblance of balance, which implies that they currently do not have that.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

You obviously didn't fully read my post if that's your response. I literally said the trees need some semblance of balance, which implies that they currently do not have that.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt and re-read it. My post stands.

 

[Kimbere]

I gave you the benefit of the doubt and re-read it. My post stands.

Ok, sure whatever you say.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Ok, sure whatever you say.

Yeah you be you champ.

 

[Jaspar]

Developer Response: Trances — We Have Heard Your Feedback

Thank you for the detailed feedback regarding trances. After extensive internal discussion, several spreadsheets, and one extremely concerning meeting that lasted 47 minutes, we have determined that the problem with trances is not that they are annoying, mandatory, poorly communicated, or occasionally unreliable.

The problem is that not enough systems depend on them yet.

Therefore, in Update 81.1.2, we are introducing the following changes:

Trances​

• Trances have been removed.
• We understand this may seem like a dramatic solution. Fortunately, we have compensated for the removal by adding their functionality to 17 new items, 6 enhancement trees, 3 legendary sets, and one hireling who refuses to explain himself.
• To activate any of these effects, you must first equip a stat stick, remove your weapon, jump twice, open your character sheet, and whisper the name of your primary attribute into your microphone.

We feel this is much cleaner.

Inquisitive​

Inquisitive has been buffed to compensate for the removal of trances.

• Since Inquisitive players will no longer have to spend valuable time looking for a tiny icon on their buff bar, we are giving them that time back in the form of additional doubleshot.
• In fact, ranged characters will now receive twice as much Doubleshot as before.
• We have carefully determined that ranged builds were not doing enough damage, primarily by observing ranged builds deleting bosses before the melee players could finish typing "LFM."

To address this discrepancy, we have increased ranged damage until the combat log becomes less of a log and more of a historical archive.

Vistani Knife Fighter​

Vistani Knife Fighter has also been buffed. We felt it was important that removing trances not disproportionately affect people who were already throwing approximately 900 knives per second at the screen. Vistani Knife Fighter now receives:

• +40% additional knife
• +25% bonus knife per knife
• A passive effect called Knife Again
• A new ability called More Knife
• An enhancement called We Have Considered This and Added Another Knife

The capstone now has a 10% chance to throw an additional knife every time you throw an additional knife.

We expect this to be very healthy for server performance.

Bows​

We have identified bows as a major source of lag. After extensive testing, we discovered that the problem was that arrows were traveling through the air too quickly.

• Therefore, bows are now slower.
• Significantly slower.
• An arrow fired from a longbow will now take approximately 14 seconds to reach its target, giving the server ample time to process the projectile.

This will also allow players to admire the arrow. As a further optimization, arrows will now occasionally stop in midair to think about what they're doing.

Kukris​

We recognize that slowing bows creates an obvious balance problem for ranged builds.

• To compensate, kukris now use a 1d10 damage die.

Sadly they will read this and not realise it was dripping with mocking irony.

Because they dont understand how the game works. They just think they do. Which is a dangerous combo.

A review of all short term buffs is needed. Any where the cooldown is shorter than the duration should be removed and replaced with a permanent equivalent. Whether a toggle or just built in.

 

[Kimbere]

Yeah you be you champ.

Nah. I'm gonna be you for a bit.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

-You cannot move around the UI so having to look every few minutes to see if my tiny trance buff icon is still active is annoying.

Personally I have no issue with trances, they're currently being used as a balance lever, and removal/universalising trances would require more balancing on top of that.

The UI point is where I do fully agree. Trying to find anything specific there is next to impossible mid combat. It would be nice to be able to separate buffs onto different lines based on duration, ie. 4 lines for permanent, long term (5+ minute), mid term (1-5min) and short tern (<1min). Or a custom buff UI where you can drag and drop certain abilities you want to keep an eye on.

 

[woq]

Personally I have no issue with trances, they're currently being used as a balance lever, and removal/universalising trances would require more balancing on top of that.

The UI point is where I do fully agree. Trying to find anything specific there is next to impossible mid combat. It would be nice to be able to separate buffs onto different lines based on duration, ie. 4 lines for permanent, long term (5+ minute), mid term (1-5min) and short tern (<1min). Or a custom buff UI where you can drag and drop certain abilities you want to keep an eye on.

On top of buff bar viewing annoyances, sometimes you use a trance (or boost) and it goes on CD on the action bar, but the ability never goes off and if you press it again you'll actually get the trance/boost.

This has been happening to me more and more often - I didn't really notice how often it kept happening until I started having roars saved and re-watched some recorded gameplay t_t

 

[Kyrr]

On top of buff bar viewing annoyances, sometimes you use a trance (or boost) and it goes on CD on the action bar, but the ability never goes off and if you press it again you'll actually get the trance/boost.

This has been happening to me more and more often - I didn't really notice how often it kept happening until I started having roars saved and re-watched some recorded gameplay t_t

The best way to explain this. If you use it while your strength is at 80 and the trance is 2 minutes, then you get fatigue or weakness and it's 78 and try to use it before the 2 minutes is up, it just consumes the trance because your stats aren't greater than the trance that's currently active.

This goes for everyone that is confused. If you click trance and it didn't give the buff, the previous trance is still active with a higher stat. Most of the time, this shouldn't be an issue for anyone but a Dragon Lord or someone who uses a stat stick. A monk can have this issue if they use the Touch of the Void Dragon.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

The best way to explain this. If you use it while your strength is at 80 and the trance is 2 minutes, then you get fatigue or weakness and it's 78 and try to use it before the 2 minutes is up, it just consumes the trance because your stats aren't greater than the trance that's currently active.

This goes for everyone that is confused. If you click trance and it didn't give the buff, the previous trance is still active with a higher stat. Most of the time, this shouldn't be an issue for anyone but a Dragon Lord or someone who uses a stat stick. A monk can have this issue if they use the Touch of the Void Dragon.

This is definitely another issue, and I think trances should be changed to always override, even at a lesser value to avoid this problem.

The problem woq described also exists separately, and is a more a lag/engine busy bug that also occurs with boosts, where it appears to activate on hotbar, but doesn't actually trigger. The workaround is either hold the trance/boosts button, or spam click it until it actually activates.

 

[saekee]

What if they offered a feat that did the same thing? So you can do it with AP or as a feat.

I know it is not removing them, but I suspect they have balanced around them already. At least if we can get a trance as a feat, we could be more flexible with builds.

 

[Kyrr]

This is definitely another issue, and I think trances should be changed to always override, even at a lesser value to avoid this problem.

The problem woq described also exists separately, and is a more a lag/engine busy bug that also occurs with boosts, where it appears to activate on hotbar, but doesn't actually trigger. The workaround is either hold the trance/boosts button, or spam click it until it actually activates.

See, I assume it's the non overlapping bug because i've never had that issue outside of instances of lag.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Nah. I'm gonna be you for a bit.

Cool. That's a level up for you then.

 

[mikarddo]

Cap the value at level/3 and double the duration.
Make recasting always overwrite.