Please revamp or rework the Arcane Archer tree

[Eleron]

Please revamp or rework the Arcane Archer tree and the bow mechanics. Bow for leveling is difficult; the arcane archer is so obsolete by now, costing too many action points, and does not provide many useful slots for the action points spent. There are not many options for bow currently, Deepwood Sniper (DWS), but you need to have ranger levels, Arcane Archer (AA), and need to be an elf or half-elf to have access to the tree with a high cost of 4 points, and Horizon Walker (HW). People who play the bow know that basically, the problem is that you cannot play AA without mixing with another tree. First, for being an arcane archer, the intelligence stat is not taken into consideration. You can only choose between Dex and Wisdom scores. Second, the imbue element available to be used (force, fire, ice, electric, and acid) that you choose to use scales with spellpower, but wisdom does not increase spellpower for arcane or spellcraft. The DC for the abilities is calculated using wisdom and enchantment. No battle trance is available in the tree (I mean not every tree has a battle trance ofc). No action boost is helpful or useful at all. No range alacrity increase like other trees provides to repeaters or crossbows. If you decide to play paralyzing arrows or terror arrows with mobs, you give up damage and often don't work, or ofc bosses are immune. The tree does not provide a critical threat range; it only provides a critical multiplier. The new trees now provide both of them with threat range and critical multiplier.

Please take this into consideration. Maybe people will argue about power creep, but this is not about power creep; it's about having fun playing the game again. After the Inquisitive revamp, most people start playing only Inquis. That is fine, but why? Inquis can be built with different classes and offers many options for playing a crossbow build. Bow builds lack behind because you have the same options to make a build again and again. When any archetype or any new class comes out is very difficult to find or create a bow build because there are not many options. Many people will say that's ok, or "I don't care." I don't play ranged toons, but many people like to play only ranged or only casters, or only melee, or any 1 class like healer or barb.

If we take it into consideration, we can reorganize the tree into theme trees, like ok AA is helpful for imbue builds, DWS is helpful for sneak attack dice and range power builds, and Horizon for range power builds. Additionally, many people offer ideas for rework or updates. Many people want this to happen.

Please Devs think about this. It would be awesome to have fun with AA again. Now Arcane Trickster is available, maybe AA can have SLA too, like spells to add to the arrows, like buffs, or to increase the damage like enchant weapons, or other effects to add fun to the tree, versatility, and new options.

Thanks, I hope this wish comes true someday.

 

[Eleron]

Thanks.

 

[toaf]

or at least put each "many shot charge" on its own timer

 

[Elves United]

Time has not been kind for Arcane Archer. I remember mine.
13 Monk 6 Ranger 1 Favored

the hits just kept on coming.

DC creep took down paralyzing arrows.
Hunt's End changes so it was it's own attack and no longer synced with Death Arrow or sniper shot.
Thousand stars became shuriken only.

 

[Eleron]

Yeah. Eveything keep changing except the AA tree.

 

[Jasparius]

Its not just AA. Its bows.

20% faster firing rate and 20% more damage to all aoe would be quick and still leave bows way behind. But at least be something.

 

[Ying]

I'd love to see the bow playstyle make a comeback in DDO. It's pretty weird that it's so far behind shuriken and crossbows, given the ubiquity of bows in the fantasy genre.

Unless Precise Shot and IPS changes, DEX will be the defining attribute for bows. The damage benefit is just too great. Even with doubling up on DEX modifier damage, bows are underwhelming today.

The WIS-based saves for the effects in the AA tree need to be replaced with skill-based saves, similar to the Arcane Trickster. The same goes for Ranger crowd control spells (Entangle, Snare, Spike Growth).

Bows suck for burst damage. Manyshot in it's current form ain't it. Add an action boost in a similar vein to Endless Fusilade/No Holds Bar/Haste Boost in the AA tree that's specific to bows. I don't mean copy EF/NHB for bows, but something that matches the bow fantasy.

AA imbues need a selector to scale based on spellpower or ranged power, just like Arcane Trickster.

More analysis and detail here: bows are bad and how to fix them.

 

[Bjond]

IMHO, the first major balance or update effort needs to hit casters.

AA is absolutely absurdly obsolete, but it's also the last thing I'd balance because there are other ranged options that provide excellent DPS; ie. it's an effort with no upside other than a different weapon cosmetic.

 

[Jasparius]

IMHO, the first major balance or update effort needs to hit casters.

AA is absolutely absurdly obsolete, but it's also the last thing I'd balance because there are other ranged options that provide excellent DPS; ie. it's an effort with no upside other than a different weapon cosmetic.

Saying there are other options, meaning shuri and xbows?

Like saying all casters could just go sorc and be ok rather than poor like wizard ??

Or meaning there are other trees like DWS and HW which are not old and useless like AA ?

 

[Bjond]

Like saying all casters could just go sorc and be ok rather than poor like wizard

Yes, like that, but casters don't have that luxury. They're all in bad shape, even the "good" ones.

The reason I consider swapping weapons a solution for ranged is that ALL ranged are about 80% identical. Same gear with maybe different primary attribute. Same hunt & pluck. Same epic trees. They're so identical that I level Shuri as INQ and swap at cap with only one free feat change.

For DDO, if you played one ranged, you've played them all. Quibbling over the weapon is more about the art than the play.

Art is important. This is a fantasy game and it's essential to key into as many personal taste/tropes as possible, but even that argument pales because "bow" is a sliver compared to "magic".

 

[Jasparius]

Yes, like that, but casters don't have that luxury. They're all in bad shape, even the "good" ones.

The reason I consider swapping weapons a solution for ranged is that ALL ranged are about 80% identical. Same gear with maybe different primary attribute. Same hunt & pluck. Same epic trees. They're so identical that I level Shuri as INQ and swap at cap with only one free feat change.

For DDO, if you played one ranged, you've played them all. Quibbling over the weapon is more about the art than the play.

Art is important. This is a fantasy game and it's essential to key into as many personal taste/tropes as possible, but even that argument pales because "bow" is a sliver compared to "magic".

To be fair, all melee builds are Quick Cutter spams now too.

 

[Raedier]

Imagine if bow was buffed up to the point where u could run 17/3 fvs/ranger and do inquis type dps.

 

[Dulkhan]

Ppl are still stuck in the attack speed meta, thats what inqui and shuriken builds are for. Bow should be about aoe and high numbers, what bow need are better special attacks that are exclusive to bow. with a higer damage number 1d8 dont cut it for, but also we need a x2 stats multiplier and extra critical extension for legendary levels ( add it to legendary aim for example) bow should be about using your special attack rotation for aoe or single target damage with a new epic destiny tree that is also focus on this. ( we need a new range focus ED since Shirady is almost entirely focus on attack speed builds... also aoe of bow special attacks need to be larger..

 

[Abramax]

Tolero said that we should have some balance this year especially for casters, but for ranged and melee too.
We didn t have more informations.
With the Dragon Disciple and now the Arcane Trickster, there are some good work going to understand and help hybrid builds.
As AA is more like an hybrid build than a pure ranged physical DPS, let s hope that they ll do something good this year....

 

[Jasparius]

Tolero said that we should have some balance this year especially for casters, but for ranged and melee too.
We didn t have more informations.

Because throwaway lines generally dont contain a lot of detail.

 

[Abramax]

I am surprised that @Smokewolf didnt answer to this thread yet

 

[Eleron]

Additionally, the dry shots sometimes don't help; you need to hit like 10 times the same creature to be sure it's dead.

 

[Bravgji]

Do you guys think that something like the original PnP Imbue Arrows could be added to AA? And if SSG would even *try* to do that?

You unleash an area spell and shoot your arrow in the same action. Here, for example, it'd add the bow's damage to the targets affected by Lightning Bolt. Sure, this kind of already exists in game (Shocking Arrows + IPS in this example), but it doesn't look cool.

This assumes a better Ranger spell list. And if AA cores added spells to your spell list, similar to what Sacred Defender core 4 does.

Also, it'd need Skill to DCs (like what ATr does, as mentioned by Ying) and the ability to use the same Spell Power for all elemental damage.

Is this an interesting idea or unnecessary?

(Wizard also desperately needs that last one, but we're talking AA.)

 

[Smokewolf]

I am surprised that @Smokewolf didnt answer to this thread yet

(Feels ears burning, checks forums)

AA Revamp into Universal tree.

Core Abilities​

Arcane Archer (AP 1): Equipped bows gain +1 Ranged Power, +1% Doubleshot, and +1 Spell DC per Arcane Archer core taken. You can now conjure a stack of returning +1 arrows woven from pure magic. These arrows dissipate after an extended logout.


Imbue the Bow (AP 1): Gain access to four Imbue toggles that modify the damage of your bow attacks. (Acid, Cold, Electric, Fire) You also gain +1 bonus Imbue dice for every two Arcane Archer cores taken. Your Imbues scale with the highest of 75% Spell Power or 150% Ranged Power. (Activation Cost: 20 SP. Cooldown: 10 seconds)


Penetrating Arrows (AP 1): Gain access to three secondary toggles that enhance your arrows to bypass various forms of Damage Reduction:

• Aligned: Your arrows bypass alignment-based Damage Reduction (Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic).
• Metalline: Your arrows bypass all metallic-based Damage Reduction (Adamantine, Mithral, etc.).
• Morphic: Your arrows deal Bludgeoning, Piercing, and Slashing damage simultaneously.

(Activation Cost: 20 SP. Cooldown: 10 seconds.)


Unstable Imbues (AP 1): Your damage Imbues can now critically hit using your bows base Critical Multiplier.


Shadow Arrows (AP 1): Equipped bows gains a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier. On a successful critical, gain +1 Imbue dice for 12 seconds, which can stack up to 3 times.


Mystical Archer (AP 1): +2 to all stats, +20 Doubleshot, and your damage spells have an additional 1% chance to critically hit for every two Imbue dice.

Tier One​

Awareness (AP 1, Ranks 3): +1/+2/+3 Listen, Search, Spot, and to-hit. Rank 3: While holding a Shortbow, gain +5 Ranged Power.


Arcane Trance (AP 1 / Ranks 3): Your bow gains an Insight bonus to hit, damage and spell power equal to 1/2 of your highest stat modifier for 30/60/120 seconds. Cooldown: 20 seconds, 5 Charges per rest. Each spell or SLA cast has a 5% chance to restore one charge. (ICD of 12 seconds.)


Energy of the Wild (AP 1, Ranks 3): +30/+60/+100 maximum spell points. Rank 3: You gain the Magical Training feat. If you already have the Magical Training feat, you gain +5 Universal Spell Power.


One with the Bow (AP 1, Ranks 1) Bows are considered Spellcasting Implements in your hands, while reducing your chance of Arcane Spell Failure by 15%.


True strike (AP 1, Ranks 2) : Passive: After casting a spell or SLA, your bow gains (+5/10) bonus to hit, and +1 Critical Threat Range with for (15/30) seconds.

Tier Two​

Action Boost (AP 1, Ranks 3): Select Haste, Imbue or Ranged Power Boost.

• Haste: Activate to gain a 10%/20%/30% Action Boost bonus to attack speed for 20 seconds.
• Imbue: Activate to gain +2/+4/+6 Imbue dice for 20 seconds.
• Ranged Power: Activate to gain a +10/+20/+30 Action Boost bonus to Ranged Power for 20 seconds.

Dispelling Shot (AP 1, Ranks 1): Performs a ranged attack that dispels 3 beneficial effects from an enemy. Enemy is magically silenced and unable to cast spells for 6 seconds, Will save vs. DC 20 + Highest of Concentration or Spellcraft. (Activation Cost: 5 SP. Cooldown: 12 seconds)


Elemental Arrows I (AP 2, Ranks 1): Add +2 Imbue dice. Passive: +5 Universal Spell Power.


Explosive Shot (AP 2, Ranks 1): AOE Ranged Archery Attack: Fire a single shot with +20% Damage, affecting every enemy in an area around where the shot hits. Enemies hit in this manner are shaken. (Activation Cost: 5 SP. Cooldown: 12 seconds)


Force Arrows (AP 2, Ranks 1): Imbue Toggle: You Imbue your arrows with magical force. Your arrows gain On Hit: 1d8 force damage and the Ghost Touch ability. Passive: +5 Universal Spell Power (Activation Cost: 20 SP. Cooldown: 10 seconds)

Tier Three​

Arcane Ability I (AP 2, Ranks 1): Choose between +1 Charisma, Dexterity, Intelligence or Wisdom.


Elemental Arrows II (AP 2, Ranks 1): Add +2 Imbue dice and +5 Universal Spell Power.


Moonbow (AP 1, Ranks 1): While wielding a bow, gain a Base Attack Bonus equal to your Character Level. Once every 30 seconds you gain 20 temporary spell points for 10 seconds.


Shooting with Style (AP 2, Ranks 1): Choose one.

• While holding a Shortbow, you can run 1% faster for each of your heroic levels.​
• You can now Swashbuckle while wielding a Shortbow. (+1 Threat Range, Requires Bard Level 3)​

Terror Shot (AP 2, Ranks 1): Performs a ranged attack that attempts to kill a single target outright by turning their fears against them. (Will Save vs. DC 20 + Highest of Concentration or Spellcraft) Passive: Deals 1d8 Negative damage per Imbue dice. (Activation Cost: 5 SP. Cooldown: 12 seconds)

Tier Four​

Arcane Ability II (AP 2, Ranks 1): Choose between +1 Charisma, Dexterity, Intelligence or Wisdom.


Banishing Shot (AP 2, Ranks 1): Performs a ranged attack that attempts to banish a single extra-planar creature back to its home plane of existence. (Will Save vs. DC 20 + Highest of Concentration or Spellcraft) Passive: Deals 1d8 Bane damage vs extra-planar creature per Imbue dice. (Activation Cost: 5 SP. Cooldown: 12 seconds)


Elemental Arrows III (AP 2, Ranks 1): Add +2 Imbue dice and + 5 Universal Spell Power.


Paralyzing Shot (Tier Four, AP 2, Ranks 1): AOE attack that attempts to paralyze every enemy in an area around where the shot hits. (Will Save vs. DC 20 + Highest of Concentration or Spellcraft) Passive: -10% Movement and Attack speed. (Activation Cost: 5 SP. Cooldown: 12 seconds)


Smiting Shot (Tier Four, AP 2, Ranks 1): Performs a ranged attack that attempts to destroy a single construct outright. (Will Save vs. DC 20 + Highest of Concentration or Spellcraft) Passive: Deals 1d8 Bane damage vs constructs per Imbue dice. (Activation Cost: 5 SP. Cooldown: 12 seconds)

Tier Five​

Accumulation (AP 1, Ranks 3): Gain +(1/2/3) Spell power for each Imbue dice you possess. Rank 3: While holding a Shortbow, gain +1 Ranged Power for each Imbue dice.


Arrow of Slaying (AP 2, Ranks 1): Ranged Archery Attack: Performs a ranged AOE attack with +250% Damage and +25 flat damage. This damage can be multiplied by critical hits. (Activation Cost: 20 SP. Cooldown: 12 seconds.)


Focus Mastery (AP 2, Ranks 1): Your Archer's Focus Stance can now stack up to 25 times instead of 15. Passive: Casting an spell or SLA now grants you 5 stacks of Archer's Focus. (ICD Spells / SLA's, 12 seconds)


Lingering Enchantments (AP 2, Ranks 1): After casting an spell or SLA you gain a 5% bonus to attack speed for 12 seconds, which can stack up to 3 times. Passive: Your bow attacks gain +1 to their critical multiplier.


Runebow (AP 2, Ranks 1): Your damage Imbues now deal 1d10. On Vorpal hit gain one Manyshot charge. (ICD 12 seconds)

 

[seph1roth5]

I've played a few AA over the years and they've all been pretty disappointing. The only one I really enjoyed was a paralyzer in one of the HC seasons. Crap dps, slow, but with IPS it was massive CC in a time when everyone wanted to live lol.

I think the main problem is that bows suck. So anything the AA does is made even suckier by the fact that you shoot very slowly, and clunkily. Also, ranged aoes suck, and always have. Devs don't seem to understand that all the ranged aoes have such a horrible hitbox that it's hitting 2 mobs (out of like 10) at best. Same with IPS. It used to have giant drawbacks (think they cut down on those a bit, but still some?) because devs think it's super powerful and easy aoe?

I consider myself pretty good at lining up enemies, like lightning bolt. But whereas that's worth taking an extra sec or 2 to get everything in one big zap, it's not worth it for bows most of the time. Not only is it way more tedious because of the way projectiles shoot, so you need to manually aim to really make it work.

I think AA just needs a complete rework, after bows do lol. It has a lot of variety, but you have to choose. Should really let you swap elements like EK or monk does. And has an odd amount of the smiting/banishing type stuff, alllllllllll expensive. I never played one in tabletop, and only played pathfinder really. It looks like it's main thing was letting you attach spells to your arrows? I guess it would just kind of be like trickster where you get spells from other classes, but shoot them with your bow?