POLL: RNG Gambling & Pay2Win ?

[Shear-buckler]

You are absolutely right again. I posted quite a bit bavk in this s thread that there is no point in arguing with over-educated types, they are going to keep using words like subjective and objective and keep arguing from a 100% literal perspective, as I posted before these people struggle in real life with social circles and likely struggle to keep their personal relationships in a good place.

…but i do continue to say the best term is to use “pay for advantage“ so you can just avoid the semantics of the over-educated types.

They are many things, but not educates is not among them.

 

[PaleFox]

I pulled a diamond of swim 22. I won DDO. When do the credits roll?

Nah, you just volunteered to do the swims in the crucible.

 

[PaleFox]

Here is a hint for you that can put it into context for you.

Hint: Have you ever watched a nascar or formula 1 race?

even though i get you are trying to back the socially obtuse over-educated antagonist in the thread, i have to assume you are not also some nose in a bunch of books socially delusional stump as they are and that you can grasp a little what the full spectrum of winning defines.

let me know if you understand it from the very simple hint above.

The word winning can describe anything charming, successful, or profitable that brings joy, earns favor, or solves a problem, extending far beyond finishing first in a sports race.
So even buying glam stuff, pets and their tricks is pay to win, esp the coffers.

 

[Clumsyoof]

The worry is not about how other people spend their money, but rather how the game design gets warped to take my money.
We got rare loot to sell more chest-rolls.
We got teleport activation timer to sell more cosmetics.

What is next?

dude!!!! Who the F*!%& is your vocalist!! dude has some serious lungs!!, nice guitar work, drummer is outstanding..... and the production work is very nice, the mix levels are spot on!!.... please dont tell me you did the mix.... if you did I am going to be bugging you to mix some tunes for me . I haven't been in a band in years, these days I just get an idea, record a rough copy of it and toss it on my youtube channel so I dont forget it.

 

[Shear-buckler]

dude!!!! Who the F*!%& is your vocalist!! dude has some serious lungs!!, nice guitar work, drummer is outstanding..... and the production work is very nice, the mix levels are spot on!!.... please dont tell me you did the mix.... if you did I am going to be bugging you to mix some tunes for me . I haven't been in a band in years, these days I just get an idea, record a rough copy of it and toss it on my youtube channel so I dont forget it.

Those parts are all from the magic machine, SUNO. I write the lyrics, decide the structure and the style/sound and massage the prompts until it sounds just right.

 

[PaleFox]

edit note: your post is correct if someone is looking to achieve as many cosmetics as possible, with the exception of earnable cosmetics that cant be bought, that is subjectively not a competition but just a matter of making the purchases. Hardcore cosmetics are different and do have an objective value in the terms of winning and there is pay to win for those in particular because of tomes and such on the original hardcore servers, and now with the events on live servers the competition is simply dominated by those that have paid to have god like toons that will carry their hardcore multibox toon(hence why you see mnay posts in theeads about the new events being softcore).

Personally, I just like cosmetics because they look cool; I never really realized that for many, it’s actually a way of displaying social "winning." It's eye-opening to see how deeply people equate premium purchases with high status, for them winning is without competition. It’s like a digital version of having a trophy wife or bringing home the bacon; winning through display rather than skill.
This mindset actually exists all over the world:

• "Adding flowers to brocade" (Chinese): Piling on luxury. Buying flashy cosmetics for an already strong toon just to show off wealth.
• "Five fingers in the ghee" (Hindi): Living in pure luxury. This is the DDO equivalent of using heavy store-bought boosts or paying for god-like carries to breeze through content while sitting pretty.

If we look at the world through the four mature masculine/human archetypes (Moore & Gillette), "winning" takes on four completely different flavors.
- Being guild leader, completionist
- Hardcore server leaderboard, Solo R10
- Action House Baron, build guru, knowing fastest route to cap
- Collecting Fluff (or even designing cosmetics), helping new players, socializing on any channel possible

 

[Buddha5440]

Here is a hint for you that can put it into context for you.

Hint: Have you ever watched a nascar or formula 1 race?

even though i get you are trying to back the socially obtuse over-educated antagonist in the thread, i have to assume you are not also some nose in a bunch of books socially delusional stump as they are and that you can grasp a little what the full spectrum of winning defines.

let me know if you understand it from the very simple hint above.

What in the world do NASCAR and F-1 have to do with DDO? They actually have a finish line and have a way to WIN...You can't WIN DDO.

Also, your third "sentence?" was a horrible constructed bunch of nonsense.

 

[Shear-buckler]

And now we are back to arguing that Argentina did not win the semifinal because Spain won the final.

 

[Tumideon]

Again, if they wanted us to "win" and pay for it, they'd have cheaper Otto's or just the stones, Threads of Fate, all crafting materials, rare augs, filligrees, and even raid armor sets for sale in the store. There are other Japanese MMORPGs that have that, hell in OSRS you can just straight up buy money, Diablo 3 had that as well.

(Of course those latter two had a functioning cash/gold/plat economy)

And you know what? I wouldn't mind that at all lol. Go crazy.

 

[Buddha5440]

And now we are back to arguing that Argentina did not win the semifinal because Spain won the final.

That makes as much sense as the comparing DDO to NASCAR and F-1.

 

[DDO Gaming]

// In an MMORPG, "pay-to-win" (P2W) refers to a monetization model where spending real money gives players a meaningful gameplay advantage over those who don't pay.

The key idea is that money can directly improve your chances of winning, progressing faster, or outperforming other players.

Examples of pay-to-win features include:

• Buying weapons or armor that are stronger than what free players can realistically obtain.
• Purchasing permanent stat boosts (more health, damage, defense, etc.).
• Paying for powerful consumables that give a competitive edge.
• Unlocking high-level content or characters much faster than normal.
• Buying upgrades that are impractical or extremely time-consuming to earn through regular gameplay.

What isn't always considered pay-to-win?​

Many MMORPGs sell things that most players don't consider P2W, such as:

• Cosmetic skins and outfits.
• Mount appearances (if they don't affect gameplay).
• Emotes, pets, and decorations.
• Character renames or appearance changes.
• Extra inventory or bank space (though some players debate whether this provides an advantage).

Gray areas​

Some monetization falls between "fair" and "pay-to-win":

• Pay-for-convenience: Paying to level faster, reduce grinding, or get quality-of-life improvements. Some players accept this, while others view it as a form of P2W if the advantage is substantial.
• Battle passes: Often acceptable if they mainly provide cosmetics or modest rewards, but they can be seen as P2W if they contain powerful exclusive items.
• Boosters: Experience or resource boosts are controversial. If they only save time, many players call them "pay-for-convenience." If they lead to a significant competitive advantage, they may be viewed as P2W.

A simple rule of thumb​

Ask this question:

If two equally skilled players start at the same time, and one spends money while the other doesn't, does the paying player gain a significant gameplay advantage because they spent money?

• Yes → It's generally considered pay-to-win.
• No → It's more likely cosmetic, pay-for-convenience, or another monetization model rather than true P2W. //
  
  Yes DOD is Pay2Win

 

[Thad]

P2W or not P2W do not matter.
You can play the game both ways and enjoy it.
At the end of the day SSG consist's of people that have to be paid, and they have to keep the servers going.
I do not understand why people seem not to be able to understand this.

 

[The Narc2]

What in the world do NASCAR and F-1 have to do with DDO? They actually have a finish line and have a way to WIN...You can't WIN DDO.

Also, your third "sentence?" was a horrible constructed bunch of nonsense.

So you dont get it, that explains everything.

 

[PaleFox]

That makes as much sense as the comparing DDO to NASCAR and F-1.

What is considered winning isn't always measured by being first.

Just ask Charly...

 

[Vua]

What is considered winning isn't always measured by being first.

Just ask Charly...

Alternate ways of winning besides coming in first. Brought to you by those that lose.

 

[PaleFox]

Alternate ways of winning besides coming in first. Brought to you by those that lose.

 

[Buddha5440]

P2W or not P2W do not matter.
You can play the game both ways and enjoy it.
At the end of the day SSG consist's of people that have to be paid, and they have to keep the servers going.
I do not understand why people seem not to be able to understand this.

It's almost like they are a company and as such must make money to survive. What a crazy Capitalist concept... Obvious sarcasm.

 

[Buddha5440]

What is considered winning isn't always measured by being first.

Just ask Charly...

First off, It's Charlie., and I'm pretty certain he is doing better than you.

 

[Justfungus]

Here is the catch 22.
If having 10+ past lives and excellent Raid Equipment
didn't really matter as if you would be allowed to join a raid group.
Then having P2W would not matter. It would just be a personal choice
that has no effect on other players.
BUT IT DOES MATTER.
Most dedicated Raid Groups will not even touch a player that does not have
the same credentials as they expect to you arrive with
TO INCLUDE - past lives.
-----------------------
It is laughable because the same folks dictating every exact thing a new Raid member must have
to be in their raids and the same folks who post here on how bad it is that DDO can't get new players.
--------------------
Hate to be blunt but the Raid mentality and Raid culture drastically discourages new players to stick
around more than a week.
They ask, What will it take to be invited in the guild's raids?
They are told.
They leave the game in a week.