Preview 2 Dark Gifts

[Ebondevil]

They should be tempting, but not "the drawback is too bad to ever use" and definitely not "this is always worth taking because the risk/drawback is negligible".

Most of them aren't tempting, and most of them "the drawback is too bad to ever use"

I would rather pick Toughness over any of them, and I never pick Toughness

 

[Sylvanush]

 

[Solarpower]

Dark Bargainer Iconic will have a racial slot to select one.

Exactly. You can't skip those.

The most universal scenario : take Mist Walker, never use it.

 

[Phaaze]

Look at level 1 feats people take:

2 handed fighting, power attack maximize, 2 weapon fighting, single weapon fighting, point blank shot, improved shield bash, augment summoning (lol), etc.

None of these come close to being a better option than those even without a drawback.

They need A LOT more power to make them better than other level 1 feats before the drawbacks.

 

[Svirfneblin]

I'd like to know what the chances and small chances of the negative effects to occur.

 

[droid327]

Exactly. You can't skip those.

The most universal scenario : take Mist Walker, never use it.

Take Mist Walker, hope it comes with the Cosmetic stance for free

 

[droid327]

Look at level 1 feats people take:

2 handed fighting, power attack maximize, 2 weapon fighting, single weapon fighting, point blank shot, improved shield bash, augment summoning (lol), etc.

None of these come close to being a better option than those even without a drawback.

They need A LOT more power to make them better than other level 1 feats before the drawbacks.

It seems like there's going to be a Bonus Slot for Dark Bargains at L1 for the Iconic, and that's the only place and only way you can take these feats, and only these feats will be eligible. Kinda like choosing your Draconic Aura for Dlord.

 

[Hireling]

They've had these draw back feats forever.

Any of those +2 to a skill feats.

The Pro: "You get +2 to Diplomacy and Haggle"

The Con: "You just wasted a feat that could have been used for something actually useful"

Though oddly, they will introduce these feats, and oddly, one will synergize with something completely unrelated to it and create some sort of monster. (Think tree builds back when EDs were released).

Like some how I can see the Negative Amp and Positive Amp. Like an Undead Warforged Palemaster somehow goes way below zero and a Y2K thing happens and all of a sudden a Potion of Cure Light Wounds Heals you for a million HP.

 

[HeavyLobster]

I don't think many of these would be taken even with the drawback removed. The effects are very minor or have terrible uptime.

 

[gorocz]

Let's talk about the wild, homebrewed, shake-n-bake mashup of D&D rulesets in Dungeons & Dragons Online—3.0, 3.5, 4e, 5e, all blended like a dragon's smoothie. I dig the creativity, but let’s get real: Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft is a hot take used in Ravenloft campagins, not in general D&D, and I’m wonderin’ if its dark gifts and Strahd-style bargains make sense beyond the foggy dread of Barovia.

Like, does this gothic horror vibe work in the Forgotten Realms, where gods like Mystra are slingin’ spells, or in Eberron, where dragons are basically runnin’ the cosmic show?

In Barovia, the dark gifts and bargains with the Dark Powers, creepy, reality-warping entities that keep Strahd von Zarovich on his vampire throne, and there they make total sense. The Van Richten’s Guide lays it out: these powers are tied to the Domains of Dread, isolated pockets of misery where the Dark Powers play puppet master. You take a deal, you get some edgy boons, but you’re also cursed with a side of eternal torment. It’s flavorful, it’s thematic, it’s like hot sauce on a gothic taco. Strahd’s realm is built for this, Barovia is a prison plane, cut off from the multiverse, where the Dark Powers are the ultimate shot-callers.

But let’s teleport outta Barovia and into the Forgotten Realms. This is where things get shakier than a gelatinous cube on a trampoline. The Realms have their own cosmic order, Mystra’s Weave powers magic, gods like Bane and Cyric scheme, and events like the Spellplague and Mystra’s death shook the world harder than a tarrasque's fist.

The Dark Powers? They don’t have a foothold here. The lore of Van Richten’s says they’re tied to the Domains of Dread, not the broader multiverse. Trying to shove their bargains into all of DDO feels like trying to fit a lich’s phylactery into a paladin’s backpack. A Forgotten Realms or Eberron player making a deal with some shadowy entity would more likely be dealing with a devil like Asmodeus or a demon from Khyber, not some ambiguous Ravenloft force. The lore just doesn’t mesh.

Eberron is even more clear cut than Faerun, where the cosmic landscape of Eberron has its own power structure: the Draconic Prophecy, the dragons Above, Below, and Between, and the Progenitor Dragons Siberys, Eberron, and Khyber controlling the ENTIRE stage. Even the Demon Queen of Spiders, Lolth herself, can’t just waltz in and rewrite Draconic Prophecy. She had to use lackeys and was stuck schemin’ with dragonshards in Khyber’s depths. The Dark Powers of Ravenloft? They’d be as out of place as a beholder in House Cannith. Eberron’s lore is about the fallout, both physical and mental of the super destructive Last War where a doomsday weapon literally obliterated an entire section of the map. Now that is the cursed Mournlands where the Lord of Blades and rogue warforged live, unfettered as masters because any living being that goes into the Mournlands dies. Go back in time in Eberron a few thousand years and theres the sacrifice of the Giants that obliterated the 13th moon. We all know that story from playing DDO over the years.

A dark gift in Eberron would feel like a random plot device, diluting the weight of both Eberron and Faerun's setting, unique history, mythos, lore and etc - like the Day of Mourning or the fall of Xen’drik were events that actually shifted power in a big way. In Faerun, Mystra was killed - she was the god of all magic, and she doesn’t exist in Eberron, the Spellplague never happened in Eberron because spell power comes from the Dragons, not Mystra or the Weave. The Dark Powers have no cosmic jurisdiction out of Ravenloft. It’s a different multiversal zip code. You could retcon and homebrew a story where they do, but does that make DDO a better game? Does that make player characters more engaged or is it just a gimic? From what Ive seen of the bargains presented, they all are no better than the Guidance of Shar trinket and anyone who knows DDO knows that trinket is a hard skip. At best, i think these powers, rather than a class build point, should be on gear, perhaps all as trinkets or gear sets or a landscape curse for Ravenloft - basically once you enter ravenloft you accept or reject the dark bargain, but warping out to Eberron or FR should (really) negate it.

Van Richten’s Guide is awesome for Ravenloft campaigns. The dark gifts add that extra layer of “oh crap, I’m doomed” flavor that makes Barovia Barovia. But porting them game-wide, into settings with their own rich lore, is like trying to use a vorpal sword to cut a birthday cake, it’s overkill and messes up the existing vibe and lore of the game. Forgotten Realms has its own great backstory, the Time of Troubles, the Spellplague, and the mythals of Myth Drannor carryin’ the narrative weight. In Eberron, the Last War, the Draconic Prophecy, and the fallout of Xen’drik.

Slappin’ Ravenloft’s mechanics onto these settings dilutes their unique lore, like watering down a dwarf’s ale. And dwarves do not like watered down ale. The Dark Powers don’t “spill over” into other planes, they’re explicitly tied to the Domains of Dread, per the lore in Van Richten’s and older Ravenloft books like Domains of Dread (2e). So, while I respect the homebrew hustle in DDO, I’m sayin’ Van Richten’s Guide should stay in Ravenloft and vote for these dark gifts be only available in ravenloft content and instead of 'feats' be made into gear or some environmental effect that the player agrees to when they arrive, say after they complete the first quest in ravenloft like into the mists.

Anyway, my 2 cents as a writer. Maybe its a hot take, maybe not. That's it. See you.

You should probably look up the term "ludonarrative dissonance", because (and I hate to tell you this), this isn't even close to being a big deal as far as "dilluting settings with game mechanics" goes. Just to give you some food for thought, think on how is it possible that Eberron clerics and paladins can call upon the Sovereign Host or The Silver Flame in Forgotten Realms...

 

[Catholicon]

You should probably look up the term "ludonarrative dissonance", because (and I hate to tell you this), this isn't even close to being a big deal as far as "dilluting settings with game mechanics" goes. Just to give you some food for thought, think on how is it possible that Eberron clerics and paladins can call upon the Sovereign Host or The Silver Flame in Forgotten Realms...

Oh hey, I'm a Morninglord from Eveningstar and I've just leveled up. What's this new spell I have? "Word of Recall"? Huh. Let's cast it and... where in Khyber am I? What the heck *IS* Khyber? Who's "Eberron"? What's a Deneith and why is there a house of it? WHAT'S GOING ON?!

 

[woq]

As thematic parts of the iconic race these work very well. As generic feats, these are weird at best.

I think these are pretty cool tbh. The skill one? Play with a group on a low life ranged for easy access to max skills and don't get hit. Ditto for the webweaver - don't get hit and it's good. Soloist or melee worried about getting hit and dying to them? Don't take it, lol.

Tank REALLY likes the 20 prr/mrr one for very specific circumstances, and as a generic option it is very weak as MS pen is crippling. However, if it's for a purpose where you need to move little or can circumvent movement pens in other ways, it's a relatively accessible 20 prr/mrr.

The only one I truly dislike is the positive/negative one: people will take it, they will group, and they will cause frustration - but it's too good not to take for your solo undead activities. So basically it's always either a nobrainer ( solo ) or griefing (group) - it is both too good and too bad.

 

[Rincewind]

As something of a guideline for balance discussions:

Dark Gifts in Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft (our p&p base for this feature) grant power with a heavy drawback or significant risk.

The idea is the same here - they should be significantly stronger than the average ML 1 feat, but if you're using it for its benefit, you must not be able to completely negate the risk or drawback.

They should be tempting, but not "the drawback is too bad to ever use" and definitely not "this is always worth taking because the risk/drawback is negligible".

Steel, I think you should look at this from a different starting point, this should be either a scaler feat that will grow in power as we level and so will the drawback or a lvl 12 or 14 feat that can have more of change in the way we play with the dark gift. make it something core to the race and give a couple of less powerfull and less harmfull options too for the ones that dont want to deal with it. If you like the idea we can start exploring it deeper and give more feedback

 

[mikarddo]

The Misty Step is actually not entirely bad if rather situational.

There are quests / places in the game where having a "Wings" ability makes you bypass an annoying or longer route - so even if the slowdown occurs you come out ahead.

Just use it for that and nothing more if the slowdown happens too often to bother with it for pure movement.

Most likely never use it in combat though.

Thats definitely the one I would take.

 

[woq]

The Misty Step is actually not entirely bad if rather situational.

There are quests / places in the game where having a "Wings" ability makes you bypass an annoying or longer route - so even if the slowdown occurs you come out ahead.

Just use it for that and nothing more if the slowdown happens too often to bother with it for pure movement.

Most likely never use it in combat though.

Thats definitely the one I would take.

I can think of special circumstances for all of them, though the skill one is mostly for essentially characters that don't care much for combat. That one is the truly odd one out there.

Specifically, I think they're very interesting as parts of the iconic if they get one for free. I don't think they're quite as interesting as something that you'd spend a feat slot for.

 

[droid327]

The only one I truly dislike is the positive/negative one: people will take it, they will group, and they will cause frustration - but it's too good not to take for your solo undead activities. So basically it's always either a nobrainer ( solo ) or griefing (group) - it is both too good and too bad.

I wonder if they can make it a toggle that can only be changed in public areas? Obviously it defeats the purpose if you can just flip it on and off in a quest, but yeah it seems like you should be able to disable it when grouping so you aren't a liability to the group

 

[mikarddo]

I wonder if they can make it a toggle that can only be changed in public areas? Obviously it defeats the purpose if you can just flip it on and off in a quest, but yeah it seems like you should be able to disable it when grouping so you aren't a liability to the group

That would go against the core idea though so that is not a reasonable ask.

 

[Edrein]

I'm definitely finding this to be a bit of a weird design. Like I want to enjoy them, but this feels just as bad as the iconic Eladrin.

"Let's just slap a penalty on picking a race and playing it. Hope you enjoy 'our' version of fun." I genuinely like the changes to Dhampir and the iconic is looking good. But I'd rather not have to take ANY of these feats.

 

[woq]

I'm definitely finding this to be a bit of a weird design. Like I want to enjoy them, but this feels just as bad as the iconic Eladrin.

"Let's just slap a penalty on picking a race and playing it. Hope you enjoy 'our' version of fun." I genuinely like the changes to Dhampir and the iconic is looking good. But I'd rather not have to take ANY of these feats.

You can take one that has no effect on your character. There are several choices to do just that.

 

[Edrein]

You can take one that has no effect on your character. There are several choices to do just that.

Honestly, I guess I could have worded it better. Even if you can technically 'opt out' on the Dark Gifts compared to Wildmagic, it's the underlying design principle that I'm not a fan of. They shouldn't force players into a gimmick, even if it's an iconic.