Preview 2 Dark Gifts

[Putti]

That would go against the core of the idea though.

Perhaps. The choice of risk vs. reward is still there, though. It's just that in some content the risk might outweigh the reward while it others it won't. When that's the case I'd suspect most people won't pick the feats and they'll just be wasted content.
In general I think if the feats can't withstand being toggled on and off then they weren't well designed to begin as the risk/reward should be equal no matter the content.

 

[Ratatoskr_Mikew]

little weak, but also the downside is mild. i like this one

@The Blonde get in here with your SD melee range bug report

give evasion for 3 seconds after using the misty step so you can dash through traps

id rather see it 5 neg amp -3 pos amp as -170 pos amp in current endgame healing environment would make you impossible to heal with normal healers. alternatively, half current positive amp regardless what it is and keep the sp reduction (assuming you are in undead form)

add 1% barb damage reduction and 1% elemental absorb to this and its worth it. 20 prr/mrr is not

weakened slow? how much? and whats the chance to grab enemies? these numbers could make or break this choice

12 second uptime with 2 minute cooldown basically makes this a much worse wellspring of power (30 seconds 1.5 min cd before DI upgrade), meaning the downside will not make a 12 second buff worth it. the positive buff would have to be minimum as strong as wellspring of power in terms of uptime to make the penalty worth it. id like to see a 2 minute cooldown with 1 minute uptime or 45 second uptime 1.5 minute cooldown. the positive buff uptime should be more than the 30 second penalty (or reduce the penalty). TLDR: reduce cooldown, increase uptime of buff, decrease uptime of debuff

You came to the same conclusion I did!

 

[GramercyRiff]

There isn't a buff powerful enough to ever be slowed in this game. Moving slowly is worse than death. I'd rather just be dead.

These Dark Gifts are horrible. I can't even give any advice on how to make them something someone might choose because these are so far from ever being under and consideration. This stuff is so bad it seems like trolling.

 

[Qubert]

I have always liked a risk vs reward system in games and happy to see some new feats that lean into it. The way I review these is is the reward by itself worth a precious feat slot. If yes then I look to see if the risk is manageable or at least tolerable. I understand that this is just for the Iconic but it would really cool if there was a way for non Iconics to get access to these.

Echoing Soul:
From some testing (~500 hits) It seems to proc about 1% of the time. To me this is the most balanced of the bunch. Not to high in stats and not to low of impact. 20 to Heal and Spellcraft is nice for some casters. I'm sure the other skills could fill in some niche or more for a support style build but time will tell. I really like the warning effect you get before you suffer the bad stuff. The Blind is annoying but with a ~.3% of getting the blind I imagine this will be trivial. Overall I like this one.
BUGS:
Seems like the Immobilize is just a speed reduction and not a hard root. Not sure if this is intended.

Living Shadow:
Even if the below bugs are fixed and the negatives removed I still wouldn't take this feat. The reason people would want extra range on their melee attacks is to create space or be able to hit a key target sooner. Both can be solved by move speed or dashing abilities. The loss of using special attacks alone makes me not want to take this. After testing (500 crits) it seems to be around a 5% proc rate to get debuffed.
BUGS:

1. Standing still at max range (~8 meters) and attacking does nothing. I have to move into range to register an attack roll.
2. Move and not facing the NPC directly causes attack rolls not to register.
3. Slight delay in attack speed when getting into normal melee range of the NPC

Mist Walker:
I imagine players will take this one since it is an active they don't have to push. From testing it seemed about 4% proc rate to suffer the bad stuff. The dash is fine but there are some bugs.
BUGS:

1. Pushing the button you always suffer the -50% movespeed lasts 1 second.
2. When suffering the bad stuff you don't take the stat damage or movespeed penalty, but the bad stuff from Minion of the Eldritch

Touch of Death:
I like this one a lot, some fun ideas to make a build on it. It is up to the player to let the healer know they have less AMP.
BUGS:
Negative Spell Power and Negative amp are scaling by 5 instead of the 3 listed in the feat.

Form of Pain:
This one the rewards are fine and the negatives are easily dealt with. I'm not sure what I would change to spice it up but it is fine.
BUGS:
PRR is stacking at a rate of 3 instead of the listed 2

Webtouched Wretch:
I think this one is lowkey the best one for blasters. From testing 500 blasts of the different types this procs ~5% of the time on mobs. The AOE blasts seem to only CC one target at a time but with the lower sample size it is hard to tell. The on hit to players is about .5% of the time after 500 hits. The move speed penalty is only -25% per stack and with the low rate I think it is very manageable. This might need to be rebalanced.

Minion of the Eldritch:
This one was the hardest to test due to the 2 min CD on it. The effect on this is pretty fun to risk it from the limited testing I would say that the first proc rate sits around 2%. After 15 straight uses I noticed that I suffered the punishment every time. If I get some free time I might test out each one but that is a process. I like wild things like this so I will probably make a build with this one in mind.
BUGS:

1. Taverns do not reset the chances for the punishments.
2. The rewards are giving to much spell crit damage 170% at CL 34
3. The punishment is reducing spell crit damage by 170% at CL 34

 

[woq]

Ok considering these are meant to be pretty powerful feats with big drawbacks and are specifically for Dark Bargainers only, is there any consideration of giving immunity strips through these?
Say if Touch of Death stripped negative immunity so a bargainer abyss lock can actually feel good or negative energy spells in EDs would feel like good options for Dark pact?
Or perhaps a "Deeper pact" feat that'd let you strip immunity to your pact element but in exchange you lose some blast dice or something?

Temporary activate that strips immunity but at the cost of (a chunk) of your other spell powers? I.e you blast dark magics around you, but it makes you so negative that it dims some of your other spellcasting - strip in an aoe around you (or your target) at the cost of 30 every non-negative spell power for 10 seconds?

Something like that?

 

[seph1roth5]

P.S. This feedback reminds me of wild magic a bit and patience. I suggest people quickly try them out in client. Some of them are hard to evaluate from a forum post. We are shooting for a thematic feeling of you are getting a significant perk but every now and then you do feel like cursing the dark powers!

That's kind of a scary comparison, since my friends and I don't think wild magic is useful at all. We've all recently done our 3 chaosmancer lives, all with bad/very bad surged disabled, and amongst ALL 3 of us, we had a relevant surge come up between 0-1 time. Total, not each.

The bad surges (when I forgot to disable them and immediately reset after) were nearly always bad at the time, and even some of the neutral ones. My friend says noir black&white is distracting, but I don't even notice it.

The good/very good surges really need longer durations, and/or there needs to be less of them. Same with tea with the queen and scion of...limbo? None of the random buffs/drawbacks are good, and random doesn't have to mean useless 99.9999% of the time.

 

[Kitty2Meow]

As something of a guideline for balance discussions:

Dark Gifts in Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft (our p&p base for this feature) grant power with a heavy drawback or significant risk.

The idea is the same here - they should be significantly stronger than the average ML 1 feat, but if you're using it for its benefit, you must not be able to completely negate the risk or drawback.

They should be tempting, but not "the drawback is too bad to ever use" and definitely not "this is always worth taking because the risk/drawback is negligible".

But if 99.99% players do not want these feats, then what are the points of making them? These new feats are, IMHO, worse than those filler enhancements in some Enhancement Tree.

On the other hand, I would be happy to see if you give these feats to new mobs in the new contents. Give it a try.

 

[Synalon]

I like this idea a lot. The feats seem flavourful and could result in some interesting builds. A few of them I'd say the drawbacks need to be toned down a bit to make them tempting, like the chance to be cc'd randomly. But otherwise looking forward to trying them out.

 

[erethizon1]

Nope. The point is they are not skippable.

They are indeed entirely skippable. Just pick Minion of the Eldritch and never put the active ability on your hot key bar. The result is the same as if you picked none of these feats.

This is probably what I will do as they all appear to be garbage. If there is going to be a significant penalty there needs to be a magnificent benefit when things go correctly and these are all of minor benefit with a chance to cause your death when you get the bad option.

 

[erethizon1]

I understand the concept, but the thing is, not everyone likes it. I shy away from these types of numerical options in both PNP and video games. I think it's fine that they exist for those who like them, but I don't think you should force us to take them in the iconic.

The iconic has received many dark gifts from its patron (including the evil damage of the EB!), there's no need for this type of feat to be mandatory x_x

It is fine that they are mandatory since there are options that have no effect if you never use them (which is the same as not taking them). I am required to take create thrall on my GOO warlock at level 15 every life, but I never slot it on my hotkey bar, so it is the same as not taking the feat.

The bigger issue is that many of the drawbacks will get you killed occasionally (which is too high a penalty to make the relatively minor benefits they bring worth it), so many of these I'll never even consider using. I know the game isn't balanced for high reaper, but high reaper is a big part of the game. If you are going to slow or stun us, it means we will probably die. I suppose death could be a risk worth taking, but the benefit would have to be huge and none of these have huge benefits.

In fact, they all have tiny benefits. 20 prr/mrr? 10 stacks should be 100 prr/mrr at a minimum. 20 is barely anything. Why would we put up with an annoying slow effect for 20 prr/mrr? Being slower will cause us to take way more damage than the 20 prr prevents. There is not a single positive effect that any of these have that is anything more than mildly nice to have and mildly nice isn't worth the significant negatives that each have. Crank up the good part of these so that it is worth enduring the bad part.

 

[Frisson]

I really love what you're going for with these. It's a super neat idea, so kudos there. I wish more things existed in the game that were similar. For example: I had hoped cursed cards were legitimately powerful, but with very real drawbacks. In the end- they were just grindy and boring.

These feats are fun!...potentially.

That trouble is- DDO as it exists today is an unfriendly habitat for things that immobilize you for 6 seconds etc. But that's because higher difficulties are the norm (perhaps it shouldn't be so), mobs hit very hard on those difficulties, but also because: there is a feeling of entitlement from many people that remain playing DDO today, that they should be able to complete quests/raids with barely the hint of a hitch or disruption, in this endeavour. After all- XP/min is sacrosant (perhaps it shouldn't be so either). So of course it won't go down well.

I'm sorry if that comes across as harsh to my fellow players, but it is just what I've observed. The possibility of failure is much more palatable to people in other games, I've found. Often, that possibility is what makes those games thrilling and replayable.

Speaking of raids...People don't want to be blamed for causing them to fail due to something like immobilization or slows happening at inopportune moments. I don't mind the risk, as long as the chance is quite low. And I agree with the calls for letting us know the true % of it occuring.

The issue, to me, isn't these sort of bargain mechanics existing. I think they are interesting and creative. Definitely. It's more the state of the game, and the community therein, that is hostile to such concepts. It is the latter that needs realigning, in my humble opinion.

I think a good start would be to buff the feats. Go crazy with it! Make them actually tempting. Not every one will want to use them, no matter what. And that's okay.

But right now...there is not quite enough draw, to go with the drawback.

 

[Smokewolf]

Most would rather have constant negative effects over a random negative effect that functions unpredictably. For the obvious reason that this would be crippling if it occurred at a critical moment, and all what amounts to a minor ability gain... -Somehow I don't see this being something anyone would want or use once they realize that this doesn't balance out.

I'm of the opinion that even without the drawbacks, none of the new abilities are really worth a feat. Especially for builds / classes that are already feat starved.

So, I'll pass thanks.

 

[Phoenicis]

I'm of the opinion that even without the drawbacks, none of the new abilities are really worth a feat. Especially for builds / classes that are already feat starved.

The intention is they are a required free feat for dark bargainer only, they will not be available for general use on release, should things work properly. . .

 

[Tyran Thraxus]

Today we're taking a look at a new set of feats planned for release with the Lamordia Expansion Pack: Dark Gift Feats.

How can I get Dark Gift Feats?

• Currently anyone can take a Dark Gift as a trainable feat. This is set up this way for ease of testing, and is temporary for this preview.
• The eventual plan is the Dhampir Dark Bargainer Iconic gets a Racial Feat Slot to take a Dark Bargain feat for free. (In fact, they must take one, but that is not in this build)
• Dark Gift Feats are all ML1.
• A character may only have one Dark Gift feat. (but that limitation is not in this build)
• Fred will function with Dark Gifts though once their implemented on the Dark Bargainer correctly you will only be able to swap out a Dark Gift for another.

What ARE Dark Gift Feats?

• Dark Gift Feats represent a bargain you've made with the Dark Powers. They're based on the Dark Gifts in Van Richten's Guide to Ravenloft.
• They are intentionally stronger or more flexible than many standard feats.
• However, being a pact with the Dark Powers, each of them comes with a significant, relatively unavoidable, and never-negateable drawback.
  • It is very intentional that the drawbacks are harsh. While the details at this stage of design are somewhat flexible, we will not make a Dark Gift feat where the penalty can be easily avoided, easily negated/removed, or is non-applicable for the kinds of builds the feat would benefit. You are meant to contend with the penalty.
• That said, the balance we are looking for is having the power be strong enough and the drawback be significant enough where each feat CAN be worth taking, but isn't ALWAYS worth taking. The risk should be considerable and the payoff if you do take it significant.
• We'd like to end up with a list where most builds have at least one feat that could be applicable that build.
• To reiterate: These are meant to be risky, and are not intended to be for new players or those not looking to deal with this level of risk/reward.
• With all that said, let's take a look at our current planned list of Dark Gift Feats!
  
  
• Echoing Soul
  • Your soul is fractured, shifted, or connected to another in some way. Perhaps your past or future is affecting your present soul, or perhaps some other entity is inextricably linked with you. In any case, it manifests in knowledge and fears that aren't your own.
  • +3 to all Skills plus an additional 1 for every 2 Character Levels you have
  • +1 to all Saving Throws, plus an additional 1 for every 3 Character Levels you have
  • When you get hit with Melee or Ranged attacks, there is a very small chance your Echoing Soul will cause you to become Afraid, Blinded, or Immobilized for six seconds with no save. Immunities to these conditions do not apply to this effect.
• Living Shadow
  • Your Shadow extends your reach, acting out your dark impulses.
  • Your basic Melee attacks have extended range, hitting further in front of you.
  • Whenever you land a Critical Hit, there is a small chance your shadow exerts its will, causing your damage to be reduced by 15% for 6 seconds. This can only occur once every 30 seconds.
    • This is the same extension effect that Shadowdancer grants, and does not stack with that skill.
• Mist Walker
  • You have learned how to navigate the Mists with time and a little luck.
  • You gain Misty Step: As Abundant Step, but you disappear. +5 Reflex Save and 20% stacking incorporeality while Stepping. (Shares a cooldown with other abundant steps). 12 second cooldown.
  • When you use this Misty Step, there is a chance the Mists catch up with you and you gain Exhaustion for 6 seconds (-50% penalty to movement speed, -6 penalty to Strength and Dexterity, and cannot tumble). This exhaustion cannot be warded or removed by effects that remove Exhaustion.
• Touch of Death
  • Your every touch is pain, but you can use that to deliver death to enemies.
  • +3 Negative Spell Power per Character Level
  • +3 Negative Healing Amplification per Character Level
  • -5 Positive Spell Power per Character Level
  • -5 Positive Healing Amplification per Character Level
• Form of Pain
  • Your body is cursed to be prone to all manner of damage, but with the ability to withstand it.
  • When you take damage your body changes and you gain the Form of Pain effect which grants +2 PRR/MRR but also reduces movement speed and increases spell costs by 1% as the pain distracts you. This can stack 10 times, with one stack being removed every 5 seconds.
• Webtouched Wretch
  • You've become entwined with a great cosmic web, which occasionally becomes coterminous with reality.
  • Your offensive spells, mele and ranged attacks attacks occasionally cause strange spectral webs coat your enemies either slowing them or entangling them for up to six seconds with no save.
  • This does not work on bosses , raid bosses or oozes but will work on incorporable or fiery creatures which are normally immune to web include monsters or champs protected by freedom of movement.
  • When you get hit with Melee or Ranged attacks, there is a small chance the webs turn on you, applying a weakened slow effect which lasts 6 seconds but can stack 3 times. Spells/Immunities like Freedom of Movement do not prevent this.
• Minion of the Eldritch
  • Your soul has touched something beyond the planes, and a connection has formed there.
  • Activate: You gain +5 Spell Power per Character Level, and +1% Spell Critical Damage for every 2 Character Levels you have for 12 seconds. 2 minute cooldown.
  • When you use this ability, there is a chance the Eldritch Being you reach out to will grow tired of your petitions and decide to punish you instead. This chance increases each time you use this ability between rests.
    • Punishment: Activate: You lose 3 Spell Power per Character Level, and 1% Spell Critical Damage for every 2 Character Levels you have for 30 seconds.

Great work Torc. And thank you for not soiling your background image with personal politics.

 

[Epicsoul]

I'm not sure the balance is quite there for a couple of these. Below are my thoughts and ideas of what I'd like to see.

• Echoing Soul The beneficial power of this one is good.
  • Your soul is fractured, shifted, or connected to another in some way. Perhaps your past or future is affecting your present soul, or perhaps some other entity is inextricably linked with you. In any case, it manifests in knowledge and fears that aren't your own.
  • +3 to all Skills plus an additional 1 for every 2 Character Levels you have
  • +1 to all Saving Throws, plus an additional 1 for every 3 Character Levels you have
  • When you get hit with Melee or Ranged attacks, there is a very small chance your Echoing Soul will cause you to gain a -# penalty to all skills for six seconds with no save. Immunities to these conditions do not apply to this effect.
• Touch of Death The penalty should be equal in values.
  • Your every touch is pain, but you can use that to deliver death to enemies.
  • +3 Negative Spell Power per Character Level
  • +3 Negative Healing Amplification per Character Level
  • -3 Positive Spell Power per Character Level
  • -3 Positive Healing Amplification per Character Level

 

[Pineapple]

Living Shadow

• Your Shadow extends your reach, acting out your dark impulses.
• Your basic Melee attacks have extended range, hitting further in front of you.
• Whenever you land a Critical Hit, there is a small chance your shadow exerts its will, causing your damage to be reduced by 15% for 6 seconds. This can only occur once every 30 seconds.
  • This is the same extension effect that Shadowdancer grants, and does not stack with that skill.

Really like the idea of being able to get this while still having a good epic strike.

From some very brief testing on lamania,
I could not get this to work with hand wraps at all

Additionally, attacks with unique animations were inconsistent with if they got the effect. Trip, sunder, quick cutter, SDK chains did not.
En Pointe (bard swashbuckler t2) - the second swing of this did get the extra range.
Blow by blow (bard swashbuckler t1) did get the extended range. (Doesn't have a different animation)

 

[Epicsoul]

I'd like to suggest adding one:

Blood Rush

• A frenzied hunger quickens your stride and clouds your mind. So long as you feed, it sharpens your senses and drives you forward with unnatural speed.
• You gain a 10% action boost to movement speed.
• Your frenzy clouds your mind, distorting focus and control. While in combat, there is a small but growing chance each second that you will lose control, suffering a -20% movement speed penalty and a 20% arcane spell failure chance. These effects persist until you feed with Vampiric Bite or leave combat. This penalty cannot be avoided or dispelled.

 

[Frisson]

I'd like to suggest adding one:

Blood Rush

• A frenzied hunger quickens your stride and clouds your mind. So long as you feed, it sharpens your senses and drives you forward with unnatural speed.
• You gain a 10% action boost to movement speed.
• Your frenzy clouds your mind, distorting focus and control. While in combat, there is a small but growing chance each second that you will lose control, suffering a -20% movement speed penalty and a 20% arcane spell failure chance. These effects persist until you feed with Vampiric Bite of leave combat. This penalty cannot be avoided or dispelled.

Cool idea!

I would say, a stacking penalty to Con might be more appropriate and flavourful than the reduced move speed- as there already exists two Dark Gift feats with that drawback. In fact, it would be cool if the counterpoint to that stacking penalty, was a stacking increase to attack speed or damage- to simulate the desperation in trying to quench the thirst

 

[Smokewolf]

The intention is they are a required free feat for dark bargainer only, they will not be available for general use on release, should things work properly. . .

Even if the feat were free, who'd knowingly gimp their build with this?

 

[Phoenicis]

Even if the feat were free, who'd knowingly gimp their build with this?

There are two that are activated, simply take one of those and not put it on a hotbar.

It's likely intended to emulate the fickleness of the dark powers that granted the warlock his power. Some folks like the RP aspects of this, Others are simply looking for more power and won't be happy with these no matter what.