Preview 2 Dark Gifts

[Smokewolf]

There are two that are activated, simply take one of those and not put it on a hotbar.

It's likely intended to emulate the fickleness of the dark powers that granted the warlock his power. Some folks like the RP aspects of this, Others are simply looking for more power and won't be happy with these no matter what.

So its like dealing with my wife again, but on DDO... No thanks! I come to DDO to relax, not be aggravated by random mechanics.

 

[woq]

So its like dealing with my wife again, but on DDO... No thanks! I come to DDO to relax, not be aggravated by random mechanics.

Yes... The Completely non-random mechanics of DDO like the D20 system with autofails on 1 and auto crits on 20

That said, nobody is forcing you to deal with this system if you don't want to. But if you do, consider using some of the powers with less debilitating and/or less random negative effects.

 

[Smokewolf]

Yes... The Completely non-random mechanics of DDO like the D20 system with autofails on 1 and auto crits on 20

That said, nobody is forcing you to deal with this system if you don't want to. But if you do, consider using some of the powers with less debilitating and/or less random negative effects.

Big difference though.... Most D20 rolls can be managed and offset by bonuses. However the Dark Bargain has no such system and thus is random beyond the ability of players to manage it.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

So its like dealing with my wife again, but on DDO... No thanks! I come to DDO to relax, not be aggravated by random mechanics.

Your wife can fix cars?

Even sometimes is better than most..

 

[Tilomere]

Echoing is probably a fair bit OP on a visage build that would otherwise have the weakness of low saves of fighter/barb. +20 instakill DC, +12 all saves is a lot to give an already dominant archtype for the cost of a single feat...

 

[Rosze]

I feel these are not strong enough to really be a be a dark gift. Most seem mediocre with downsides that really dont make them worth it. Touch of death I would remove the healing amp and make the positive spell power even worse. Because its not really you who ends up paying for the dark gift there its the healer.

 

[Rosze]

Might be too powerful but would be with warlocks would be access to more spells. You make a pact and gain access to X classes spells. They have almost no good spells so would make sense to bargain for those.

 

[woq]

Echoing is probably a fair bit OP on a visage build that would otherwise have the weakness of low saves of fighter/barb. +20 instakill DC, +12 all saves is a lot to give an already dominant archtype for the cost of a single feat...

It's quite hard to have a dark bargainer warlock level and a visage in the same build

 

[norriskwondo]

With most of these bargains, I feel the real penalty is loosing the feat spot. That said, these, for the most part, seem more like abilities a true demon would give you, more like a cursed gun that only shoots your foot, but doesn't tell you for their pure enjoyment.
Now a bargain with a devil is more sell your soul at the crossroads to play guitar type of deal. There's a quality you give up (partially) that's permanent for this life, and you get the ability free to use without further suffering.
Touch of death bargain seemed to mostly have that concept, but the rest were just using cursed weapons with the joke on us. And that's the difference between the devil and a demon.

 

[Ratatoskr_Mikew]

Make the sacrifice equivalent to the gains.

Feats are suppose to make your stronger, making any of the losses in these feats greater than the gain makes no sense!

For example, instead of this:

• • Your every touch is pain, but you can use that to deliver death to enemies.
  • +3 Negative Spell Power per Character Level
  • +3 Negative Healing Amplification per Character Level
  • -5 Positive Spell Power per Character Level
  • -5 Positive Healing Amplification per Character Level
  • 
    Do this:

• • Your every touch is pain, but you can use that to deliver death to enemies.
  • +5 Negative Spell Power per Character Level
  • +5 Negative Healing Amplification per Character Level
  • -5 Positive Spell Power per Character Level
  • -5 Positive Healing Amplification per Character Level
    
    
    

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

Echoing is probably a fair bit OP on a visage build that would otherwise have the weakness of low saves of fighter/barb. +20 instakill DC, +12 all saves is a lot to give an already dominant archtype for the cost of a single feat...

TBH that was my first thought, but on reflection I'd probably look to take it more for the saves, even on my ravager at cap. In context it's not actually that OP...

Visage is more limited by it's application (no undead, no constructs, no spiders, etc.) and accessibility (requires pure class) than it's efficacy. The added DC doesn't make much difference in context when you can land it reliably in any case. It might lessen the opportunity cost of having to invest so much into CHA and Intimidate, but I'm not sure the downside (6s down in melee likely = a soul stone) makes it worthwhile, especially since it costs a feat. Even for the saves, I wouldn't, for example, want to give up Eerie Aim for it. Only way I'd even consider that is if they first FIX MAGIC FANG!

 

[Rosze]

Make the sacrifice equivalent to the gains.

Feats are suppose to make your stronger, making any of the losses in these feats greater than the gain makes no sense!

For example, instead of this:

• • Your every touch is pain, but you can use that to deliver death to enemies.
  • +3 Negative Spell Power per Character Level
  • +3 Negative Healing Amplification per Character Level
  • -5 Positive Spell Power per Character Level
  • -5 Positive Healing Amplification per Character Level
  • 
    Do this:

• • Your every touch is pain, but you can use that to deliver death to enemies.
  • +5 Negative Spell Power per Character Level
  • +5 Negative Healing Amplification per Character Level
  • -5 Positive Spell Power per Character Level
  • -5 Positive Healing Amplification per Character Level
    
    

I mean its better but as a someone that used to play lot of healers I feel I would hate this in my party. Basically if you run any reaper stuff as well you are basically not healable. If it also took away the self healing penalty from reaper or made it less maybe it could work.

 

[Solarpower]

since it costs a feat

It doesn't. You choose one of those as a Dark Bargainer similar to how Dragonborn chooses it's Draconic Ancestry.

 

[Jack Jarvis Esquire]

It doesn't. You choose one of those as a Dark Bargainer similar to how Dragonborn chooses it's Draconic Ancestry.

Oh, sorry if I've misunderstood, I thought it was free/mandatory to Dark Bargainers, but others could take it as a feat/optional?

If it's only open to Dark Bargainers, then the whole visage concern is redundant as you'll never be able to take that as an enhancement unless pure DL or Barb anyway.

No worries then, I probably wouldn't have taken it anyway.

 

[Tilomere]

Oh, if they are dark bargainer only then go fo

• The eventual plan is the Dhampir Dark Bargainer Iconic gets a Racial Feat Slot to take a Dark Bargain feat for free. (In fact, they must take one, but that is not in this build)

It is a racial feat tied to iconic race, which combined with another instakill (bite after visage-lord roar) will be too powerful.

Do visage-lords need +12 all saves, another instakill, and +20 DCs?

 

[Synalon]

I'm pretty sure it is a racial feat you get for free at level 1 regardless of class.

 

[justin credible]

Make the sacrifice equivalent to the gains.

Feats are suppose to make your stronger, making any of the losses in these feats greater than the gain makes no sense!

For example, instead of this:

• • Your every touch is pain, but you can use that to deliver death to enemies.
  • +3 Negative Spell Power per Character Level
  • +3 Negative Healing Amplification per Character Level
  • -5 Positive Spell Power per Character Level
  • -5 Positive Healing Amplification per Character Level
  • 
    Do this:

• • Your every touch is pain, but you can use that to deliver death to enemies.
  • +5 Negative Spell Power per Character Level
  • +5 Negative Healing Amplification per Character Level
  • -5 Positive Spell Power per Character Level
  • -5 Positive Healing Amplification per Character Level
    

the gain should be greater than the sacrifice, otherwise why did our character take the bargain in the first place

a dark spirit comes to you and makes an offer, "I'll give you $20, but you have to give me $100 first", no thanks.

 

[Tilomere]

The correct fix would be to allow the +20 all skills, and to convert visage to assassinate to bring monks, fighters, and barbs into alignment, adding +1/2/3 assassinate to T5 of the trees with Bully ranks.

And probably remove the greater spiked chain crit multiplier now that Patience applies it through the pair of chain attacks so SDK remains in balance with this.

 

[l_remmie]

If you have a bowl of 100 M&Ms and 1 is poisoned noone would ever eat any.

Reward needs to vastly outweigh risks. In addition to outweighing mindstrain and opportunity cost.
Drawback design is extremely hard and hated when not done right for a good reason.

In DDO (and some other games) there is also a binary threshold of win or loose. Winning MORE isnt a thing. If an ability could make you loose, it needs to be powerful enough to basically get you a difficulty tier higher. Otherwise you're succes rate at this difficulty wouldn't increase.

 

[Elisser]

Tested:
Minion of the Eldritch -- as lvl34 caster, 20Wlk.
If the punishment proc'd at all, didn't really notice -- as in was no icon or character aura or colour change to clearly indicate the penalty was in effect.
Yes, I did hotbar activate it several times running MD slayers.

Webtouched -- as lvl34 caster 20wlk.
Was a free web. Rarely got hit, so barely noticed drawback tbh.
Anectodally positive effect seemed to proc about as much as Double Rainbow.

Living Shadow -- as lvl34 swf melee build 15Wlk/5Dl in heroic elite VoD.
Kept stepping back to test my reach with Longsword (Fellblade). Seemed to work *shrugs plaintively*?
Probably not best way to test it in heroic raid, but with swf speed and average dps, didnt seem toooo bad with -15%dmg. Should've used a training dummy. Again didn't notice any visual cues of effect.

Caveat - weren't many folks on(gmt+8), and my gear was ish for Wlk to try High Reaper runs
as real play comparison.

Otherwise - interesting concept along lines of Patience epic feat.