Prioritize fixing reincarnation bank problems

[Ooblagato]

Reincarnation is integral to the core loop of the game. But if you have a lot of items it's a nightmare to do.

I personally have a hard time reorganizing things when people move my stuff around. To have that happen to me as part of an otherwise very fun video game just feels like a slap in the face. I probably spend about 5 to 10 hours per life reorganizing things and moving gear from reincarnation caches or alts to their appropriate spot. This is getting worse and worse as I accumulate more items, especially those with limitations on how they can be organized such as bound to character items.

Please please, prioritize making this experience better. Any improvements are welcome.

Some concrete ways to do this are:
- Stop adding items to the reincarnation cache and make the bank/inventory space from favor permanent (to prevent any problems related to lost storage space). This will remove the need to jumble up someone's organized inventory and bank storage. If there are issues around overflow space for equipped items, just make removing equipment a requirement for reincarnation.
* See this post later in this thread for a clear statement on why this feature is problematic in its current state (as opposed to my personal anecdote provided here in the initial post).
** This should also be paired with adding 40-200 free bank spots to make up for the lost deep storage space or a more robust solution like the one suggested here (Essentially being able to unlock the ability to reclaim a named item you've obtained once by sacrificing some amount of other named items.) As for why these extra inventory slots are necessary with this change, see this post later in this thread.


- Leave hotkey bars and UI alone. There's no reason to reset hotkey bars, one can remove abilities if they like, but a lot of things like potions, scrolls, past life abilities, etc, just have a spot on someone's bar permanently-- removing them all just adds an annoying chore.
* I made a separate thread focusing on the Hotkey bars issue here

 

[rabidfox]

You can make a pack mule toon. That should take care of most items, only bound to character items would stay, but there should not be many of those left in the game anyway.

The only items in my TR cache are BtC items. Which is enough to fill my character slots and a huge amount of my bank space. There's so many BtC items in the game.

 

[Mand O'Lin]

The only items in my TR cache are BtC items. Which is enough to fill my character slots and a huge amount of my bank space. There's so many BtC items in the game.

Far too many BtC items... especially for a packrat such as myself. It was very difficult getting rid of my full collection of ToD item sets. Well worth the extra space though.

 

[Arch-Necromancer]

The only items in my TR cache are BtC items. Which is enough to fill my character slots and a huge amount of my bank space. There's so many BtC items in the game.

Most BtC items aside from raid loot are trash and not worth keeping.

If you have too many old outdated BtC items you should just feed them to the sentients. Even if they update that old loot, they will not update your specimens, you will have to regrind the new ones.

 

[rabidfox]

Most BtC items aside from raid loot are trash and not worth keeping.

If you have too many old outdated BtC items you should just feed them to the sentients. Even if they update that old loot, they will not update your specimens, you will have to regrind the new ones.

I have a lot of raid items. Feeding them isn't on my to-do list; destroying items when I can put in them in my TR cache serves no point. Any system upgrade that would force me to destroy gear I've ground out would upset me.

 

[Dandonk]

Most BtC items aside from raid loot are trash and not worth keeping.

If you have too many old outdated BtC items you should just feed them to the sentients. Even if they update that old loot, they will not update your specimens, you will have to regrind the new ones.

Until they do a DoJ and suddenly they ARE useful again. So no, never throwing out items again. Burned on that once already.

 

[Monkey_Archer]

Technically speaking, there's no actual reason why the TR cache should need to be emptied when you TR. (besides the issue of size, which could just be arbitrarily limited at ~200)

I'm pretty sure in the time I've wasted clearing TR caches I could have re-coded the system to be permanent myself... Its a bit sad to think of the probably million+ hours off collective DDO player time wasted that could have been avoided with a crowd funded intern...

 

[h46av8r]

You can make a pack mule toon. That should take care of most items, only bound to character items would stay, but there should not be many of those left in the game anyway.

I may have a hoarding issue but.... I moved anything unbound or BtA to mules long ago and I still have 150+ BtC items. For example I like TWF so two morninglord scimitars with 8d8s slotted, similarly long swords, daggers, etc. Plus random other items - I have been playing one main toon for a long time...

 

[Ooblagato]

I have more than 200 items in my TR cache after a TR. I would LOVE to not have to remove them each TR, but I also do NOT want to have to delete items I've grinded hard for, or run with a full inventory at level 1.

I reincarnated this morning and had 370 items in my reincarnation cache. So far I have pulled 15 items out as part of my normal "starting at level 1" process. It took... maybe... an hour to pull everything out prior to reincarnating. That would be something like 340 items which were still in the cache after my last life.

It would be nice to have a single button which would empty the cache into the bank and character inventory. However, I suspect people would whine about that if the developers implemented it... they would want some sort of "intelligent" transfer of the items. You know - armor, shields, weapons (heavy stuff) prioritized going into the bank instead of character inventory.

The only items in my TR cache are BtC items. Which is enough to fill my character slots and a huge amount of my bank space. There's so many BtC items in the game.

Yeah, this is exactly why I'm saying we need to do away with the reincarnation cache. We shouldn't be punished for holding onto our hard-earned equipment. The ability to store those items shouldn't require significant effort on the player's end by working around a system that wasn't designed for proper storage.
So I'm asking for replacement of this painful deep storage method with something easy to work with. Even if they want to make it a pay-to-resolve issue to ensure they get their paycheck, I would be happier than doing nothing about it. That said, they should be careful about damaging the experience of less committed players, so going for 'we replaced reincarnation cache with an alternative storage solution' is the way to go.

 

[Arch-Necromancer]

They will not give you extra bank or inventory space as a replacement for TR cache.

TR cache was never meant to be used as storage, they made that clear on more than one occasion.

And they made special effort to disable the stacking items insertion into TR because of the above reason.

If they remove TR cache, there will be no extra bank or inventory space. Seems fair to me, considering their communication from the start.

If you lack space you can buy more bank or inventory space or bags.

If you played so much to grind all those items you should have an abundance of DDO points earned from favor to spend on more storage space. Just wait for a discount if it seems too much for you.

 

[Ooblagato]

They will not give you extra bank or inventory space as a replacement for TR cache.

TR cache was never meant to be used as storage, they made that clear on more than one occasion.

And they made special effort to disable the stacking items insertion into TR because of the above reason.

If they remove TR cache, there will be no extra bank or inventory space. Seems fair to me, considering their communication from the start.

If you lack space you can buy more bank or inventory space or bags.

If you played so much to grind all those items you should have an abundance of DDO points earned from favor to spend on more storage space. Just wait for a discount if it seems too much for you.

Actually, I can not buy more inventory space as I have it all. They, for some unfathomable reason, have not added more to the ddo store despite the bank overhaul updates seeming to be designed primarily for unlimited space upgrades.
That said, the replacement with more storage is more a, 'they should do this if they have a soul' kind of thing and not a requirement to the suggestion. They do however, need to stop putting new items into the reincarnation cache and make it possible to obtain enough storage to store the items that people do have in there currently.
Let's not forget the primary issue here, forced use of the reincarnation cache makes it where you cannot keep your items organized and takes an excessive amount of time to manage every single reincarnation.

 

[Silverfox]

Since TR cache was never intended for long term storage when a player reincarnates they should have had it auto empty back in a players inventory so the players would have never gotten used to it in the first place and this would have forced players to make choices. Managing the TR cache is all about choices. Choose what is most important to you.

Instead players stock up on Yugo pots, BTC loot, and in many cases unbound gear that they then complain disappeared.

Simple solution implement this change now and make players choose what is important to them and empty their TR Cache right back into their inventory.

I have been reincarnating for most of DDO's life and have never had a problem emptying my TR cache at level one. I made the decision long ago to not have to waste my time looking, hoping, managing BTC gear of any type. The items I have that are BTC are very limited to my next build or general purpose items that are BTC that I won't let go. Jibbers Blade, completed sigil for the Abbot Raid, and a couple of BTC storage bags come to mind immediately.

I think all raid loot should be able to be turned in for runes prior to a TR but of course these item(s) when runes are used to re-obtain the item would not have any of the previous bonuses, the augments would need to removed, sentient jewel and filigrees would need to be removed, for this turn in to work. I also feel like unbinding raid loot after a certain number of years or expansions would be a good way to enable players to keep the best pieces of raid loot and share them account wide.

The only other reasonable solution I have seen posted about was a chest like the Iconic Races have when you create them. Several Tiers available in the store that allow players to place items within the chest before reincarnating and only open it to make withdrawals when in a public area.

Anytime I see players complaining about TR Cache I just take a look at the items some players go out of their way to create problems for themselves. Bound and Attuned.

https://forums-old.ddo.com/forums/showthread.php/489892-What-s-in-your-TR-cache?highlight=tr+cache

Some of the items in these lists are no longer BTC but the same principle holds true for what players are hanging onto currently.

 

[Archaic]

VIP should come with unlimited bank space, you should have "priority" bank slots allocated however.

 

[Hellforged Wolf]

I'm with everyone here saying "no." This is not an acceptable solution. DO NOT DO THIS.

Now, let me explain why. Because I don't have bank toons. I *refuse* to have bank toons. Period. (I'll amend that slightly, I have two characters whose entire reason to exist is to hold my daily dice EXP gems, which I horde until I TR.) Everything in my TR cache is either stuff I use virtually every life. Or sentimental, most of which is bound to character. I trim my excess ******** all on my own. I have over THREE HUNDRED items in my TR cache when I TR. I don't need all of that in my bank my whole TR.

They added a search bar. That's the f- enough. I can find the **** I want, that's what they needed to do. Especially since, prior to that, your suggestion would have been worse than worthless, since before they added the search bar, your bank TABS had no search function.

 

[Ooblagato]

I'm with everyone here saying "no." This is not an acceptable solution. DO NOT DO THIS.

Now, let me explain why. Because I don't have bank toons. I *refuse* to have bank toons. Period. (I'll amend that slightly, I have two characters whose entire reason to exist is to hold my daily dice EXP gems, which I horde until I TR.) Everything in my TR cache is either stuff I use virtually every life. Or sentimental, most of which is bound to character. I trim my excess ******** all on my own. I have over THREE HUNDRED items in my TR cache when I TR. I don't need all of that in my bank my whole TR.

They added a search bar. That's the f- enough. I can find the **** I want, that's what they needed to do. Especially since, prior to that, your suggestion would have been worse than worthless, since before they added the search bar, your bank TABS had no search function.

Forgive my assertion, but those sound like points of why you should be in favor of doing away with the reincarnation cache, not opposed. Sure if they refused to add storage space on top of removing it, it would pose issues for me, you, and most of the player base; but the problem is lack of storage space there, not that the reincarnation cache is useful in any way.
The reincarnation cache itself is very very problematic and needs to be replaced.

 

[Ryofu Housen]

ESO had it great with housing and extra storage in houses, would love to see something similar in DDO

And before ESO, Runes of Magic did it well, too. Customizable house formats, furnishings, hired servants who could cook, brew potions, or train you for buffs (and also serve as dressable NPCs to hold your spare sets of gear), and even a few instanced dungeons that dropped storage chests. Best of all, the furnishings (and the aforementioned dropped chests) added xp/talent point bonuses. Log off in your house. Sleep for 8 hours. Log back on with 8 hours' worth of bonuses tacked on to your xp gains.

 

[Hellforged Wolf]

Forgive my assertion, but those sound like points of why you should be in favor of doing away with the reincarnation cache, not opposed. Sure if they refused to add storage space on top of removing it, it would pose issues for me, you, and most of the player base; but the problem is lack of storage space there, not that the reincarnation cache is useful in any way.
The reincarnation cache itself is very very problematic and needs to be replaced.

How, exactly, is the reincarnation cash, in and of itself, a problem? Like, I mean... It doesn't take up a significantly increased amount of data on the servers. It makes sure everyone's stuff can't glitch and stay equipped. It's convenient and handy, now that it has a search function. So I am legitimately curious what the inherent problem is.

 

[Ooblagato]

How, exactly, is the reincarnation cash, in and of itself, a problem? Like, I mean... It doesn't take up a significantly increased amount of data on the servers. It makes sure everyone's stuff can't glitch and stay equipped. It's convenient and handy, now that it has a search function. So I am legitimately curious what the inherent problem is.

It has two primary inherent problems.
1: When you reincarnate, all your items are pulled from your inventory and bank and thrown into the reincarnation cache haphazardly.
- This disorganizes your carefully arranged bank and inventory which takes away from time that could be used to play and causes a lot of stress for many players, especially neurodivergent people.

2: You are not allowed to reincarnate until it is cleared.
- At a minimum this forces players to monotonously click the bank and pull items they did not use that life into their inventory/bank.
- If you have little leeway in storage space remaining, you may have to transfer items you intend to use off your character before reincarnating. Only to have to transfer them back from a mule later.

Server storage-wise, it's probably no different from bank storage, except that it's accessed from a different table/object and if I'm not mistaken, is deleted when a character transfers servers.

 

[Ooblagato]

A good way to think about the extra storage the reincarnation cache has provided up to this point is that for every character/bank slot you have, you have been given an optional bonus extra inferior bank storage slot.

This inferior bank storage is problematic though and needs to be done away with. That said, just saying it wasn't intended for storage would be taking away a real benefit that it had and is why some people have an initial negative reaction to this idea.
That is why any character that has completed a reincarnation is entitled to up to 160 more bank spaces (default total storage with free to play upgrades). Similarly, for each bank/inventory upgrade they have traditionally gotten a bonus 20 of these inferior bank storage slots. So doubling the number of bank slots that current bank upgrades provide, and an additional 20 bank slots per current inventory slots owned would be appropriate.

I understand that that amount of free storage is going to cut into sales as not everyone is using 100% of their reincarnation cache. Seeing as how it's likely a big earner in the ddo store, so there is likely hesitation on making this decision. Most of us players are an understanding bunch when it comes to that sort of thing, so I think a middle ground amount of free storage paired with leaving the existing reincarnation cache intact (and not required to clear for a reincarnation) and simply offering more storage in the ddo store is viable option as well.

 

[Onyxia2016]

Two things that would help solve the TR cache issues.

• No BtC. If they want to monetize it have a reasonably priced method to change BtC to BtA.
• Make it so favor unlock storage is permanent. This way there is no need for a TR cache. Character bank and inventory just carry over to the new life. I would thing removing the TR cache would lessen the change of things going missing do to the shell game that is played when swapping things out. I also do not believe this would be difficult to implement. When you first TR and appear in game if you open you inventory you will see your stuff then it gets cleared and added to TR cache. Just terminate the script prior to that move.

But all of this has been suggested before, many times in fact. We point out things that make the game more user friendly and many offer a source of additional revenue without adding power creep and they are ignored.

You know the old saying, Wish in one hand and **** (crap) in the other, see which one fills up first.

 

[DBZ]

BTCOE