PSA: DO NOT USE KENSAI REED IN THE WIND

Br4d

Well-known member
If SSG really wanted to make the game challenging there are many ways they could do this.

Example: a Phase Shifter that is fully damageable when phased into reality and then does a timed phase out at the beginning of which any attack or spell that hits them is mirrored back on the attacker. When the mob phases back in it does the reactive attack thing until fully corporeal at which point it is fully damageable. You could have the phase outs trigger on a schedule or when the mob takes damage (probably not right solution given player damage levels) or just randomly based on who is in proximity.

Why?

Because players will have to stop mowing the lawn and actually think when they see this thing. It probably won't dramatically slow down combat but an instant death because you swung or shot or cast at the wrong time would be a teachable moment.

Example: Dire Tigers, a new magical beast with enhanced stealth capabilities. Stalk the party once activated, singling out a target and then pouncing on them from stealth. If the target is knocked down they are fully immobilized until the tiger is driven off them by other party members.

Why?

Because there's an answer for every current problem in the toolset. This would add a new wrinkle and would further incentivize grouping, which at the moment is completely disincentivized except at end game. Yes, this is a solo people eater and if it succeeds in knocking down the wrong person in a party maybe a party eater too. We need more of those in the game.

DDO is at it's absolute best for me right now when something goes wrong and half the dungeon shows up in the next minute. That's fun. I do not know what causes it but it takes DDO out of the routine for a few minutes and that's great.
 

Mobius

I see what you did there
I seem to have picked a cursed enhancement...

batman-and.gif
 
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droid327

Hardcore casual soloist
If SSG really wanted to make the game challenging there are many ways they could do this.

Example: a Phase Shifter that is fully damageable when phased into reality and then does a timed phase out at the beginning of which any attack or spell that hits them is mirrored back on the attacker. When the mob phases back in it does the reactive attack thing until fully corporeal at which point it is fully damageable. You could have the phase outs trigger on a schedule or when the mob takes damage (probably not right solution given player damage levels) or just randomly based on who is in proximity.

Why?

Because players will have to stop mowing the lawn and actually think when they see this thing. It probably won't dramatically slow down combat but an instant death because you swung or shot or cast at the wrong time would be a teachable moment.

Example: Dire Tigers, a new magical beast with enhanced stealth capabilities. Stalk the party once activated, singling out a target and then pouncing on them from stealth. If the target is knocked down they are fully immobilized until the tiger is driven off them by other party members.

Why?

Because there's an answer for every current problem in the toolset. This would add a new wrinkle and would further incentivize grouping, which at the moment is completely disincentivized except at end game. Yes, this is a solo people eater and if it succeeds in knocking down the wrong person in a party maybe a party eater too. We need more of those in the game.

DDO is at it's absolute best for me right now when something goes wrong and half the dungeon shows up in the next minute. That's fun. I do not know what causes it but it takes DDO out of the routine for a few minutes and that's great.

This works on paper but its had problems when its tried to be implemented in the past...

- Phasing mobs just turn into a timesink and no one liked that implementation. Any (non-boss) mob that has a "DONT ATTACK ME!" phase just ends up being frustrating for players waiting for it to end.

- RPS style challenges havent proven that challenging for players to adapt to before, and then it just becomes boring playing RPS with mobs

- Lag makes timed and telegraphed behavior really difficult. How many times would you be willing to die because the mob was in "DONT ATTACK ME" mode but the client didnt get the memo and you OHKOed yourself? Especially with Hardcoresque going on lol

- Mobs that *require* group play (outside of raids) are definitely going to be a no-go. Sorry that you cant fill your group fast enough to your liking, but forcing people who otherwise dont want to group into groups is not the solution. Those arent the kind of players you want in your group, anyway.


The most successful added-challenge implementation has been interacting mobs. Veng/Dooms and Card Challenges being the best examples there of ways you can force players to pay attention and not just blast moar dps, and reward skillful play

Though I'll add that the more of that you try to incorporate into the game, the more we need a far better targeting system, because that right now is a huge ceiling on fast, skillful, tactical combat
 

Frisson

Well-known member
If SSG really wanted to make the game challenging there are many ways they could do this.

Example: a Phase Shifter that is fully damageable when phased into reality and then does a timed phase out at the beginning of which any attack or spell that hits them is mirrored back on the attacker. When the mob phases back in it does the reactive attack thing until fully corporeal at which point it is fully damageable. You could have the phase outs trigger on a schedule or when the mob takes damage (probably not right solution given player damage levels) or just randomly based on who is in proximity.

Why?

Because players will have to stop mowing the lawn and actually think when they see this thing. It probably won't dramatically slow down combat but an instant death because you swung or shot or cast at the wrong time would be a teachable moment.

Example: Dire Tigers, a new magical beast with enhanced stealth capabilities. Stalk the party once activated, singling out a target and then pouncing on them from stealth. If the target is knocked down they are fully immobilized until the tiger is driven off them by other party members.

Why?

Because there's an answer for every current problem in the toolset. This would add a new wrinkle and would further incentivize grouping, which at the moment is completely disincentivized except at end game. Yes, this is a solo people eater and if it succeeds in knocking down the wrong person in a party maybe a party eater too. We need more of those in the game.

DDO is at it's absolute best for me right now when something goes wrong and half the dungeon shows up in the next minute. That's fun. I do not know what causes it but it takes DDO out of the routine for a few minutes and that's great.

I'm not sure these particular ideas are viable for SSG to implement (maybe for a raid). But I like the intention, and would love to see something along the same lines to shake up the game. Difficulty doesn't need to just need to come from inflated mob stats.
 

Br4d

Well-known member
I'm not sure these particular ideas are viable for SSG to implement (maybe for a raid). But I like the intention, and would love to see something along the same lines to shake up the game. Difficulty doesn't need to just need to come from inflated mob stats.

Yes, difficulty should not come from added hp's. That's just a lazy implementation that winks at power creep.

We have all the things we need in game to make mobs hard. Why are we just facing bloated bags of hp's as we progress?
 

Vox

Well-known member
If SSG really wanted to make the game challenging there are many ways they could do this.

Example: a Phase Shifter that is fully damageable when phased into reality and then does a timed phase out at the beginning of which any attack or spell that hits them is mirrored back on the attacker. When the mob phases back in it does the reactive attack thing until fully corporeal at which point it is fully damageable. You could have the phase outs trigger on a schedule or when the mob takes damage (probably not right solution given player damage levels) or just randomly based on who is in proximity.

Why?

Because players will have to stop mowing the lawn and actually think when they see this thing. It probably won't dramatically slow down combat but an instant death because you swung or shot or cast at the wrong time would be a teachable moment.

Example: Dire Tigers, a new magical beast with enhanced stealth capabilities. Stalk the party once activated, singling out a target and then pouncing on them from stealth. If the target is knocked down they are fully immobilized until the tiger is driven off them by other party members.

Why?

Because there's an answer for every current problem in the toolset. This would add a new wrinkle and would further incentivize grouping, which at the moment is completely disincentivized except at end game. Yes, this is a solo people eater and if it succeeds in knocking down the wrong person in a party maybe a party eater too. We need more of those in the game.

DDO is at it's absolute best for me right now when something goes wrong and half the dungeon shows up in the next minute. That's fun. I do not know what causes it but it takes DDO out of the routine for a few minutes and that's great.
Hang on, don't you play on non-reaper/low reaper only?

If you wanted it more difficult you could... raise the difficulty
 

Br4d

Well-known member
Hang on, don't you play on non-reaper/low reaper only?

If you wanted it more difficult you could... raise the difficulty

R3/R4 doesn't significantly raise the difficulty for me. It just takes longer to kill stuff. Higher than that I have zero interest in. I don't spend my reaper points, I don't use sentient weapons, I don't raid and I don't farm for gear. If they'd finally fix Cannith Crafting I'd do a zero named items moratorium to make things more interesting.

Anyway, all of that stuff aside, the R10 crowd says that they're mowing the lawn most of the time...
 

Shear-buckler

Master of reactions
R3/R4 doesn't significantly raise the difficulty for me. It just takes longer to kill stuff. Higher than that I have zero interest in. I don't spend my reaper points, I don't use sentient weapons, I don't raid and I don't farm for gear. If they'd finally fix Cannith Crafting I'd do a zero named items moratorium to make things more interesting.

Anyway, all of that stuff aside, the R10 crowd says that they're mowing the lawn most of the time...
So you have no idea what you are talking about and are just parroting what other have said?
 

Bjond

Well-known member
ignore this guy. TLDR they self impose restrictions and then complain about how hard the endgame is. their opinion is irrelevant
That's going a bit too far; it's not a mumbled wall-of-text. He's got interesting & cogent posts that are coming from a different style of play -- just need to filter it for divergence from what you're doing.

Ideas can come from anywhere, but the most surprising come from doing REALLY different stuff.
 

Coffey

Well-known member
R3/R4 doesn't significantly raise the difficulty for me. It just takes longer to kill stuff. Higher than that I have zero interest in. I don't spend my reaper points, I don't use sentient weapons, I don't raid and I don't farm for gear. If they'd finally fix Cannith Crafting I'd do a zero named items moratorium to make things more interesting.

Anyway, all of that stuff aside, the R10 crowd says that they're mowing the lawn most of the time...
It allows me to play DDO casually without getting caught up in all the time sinks so i like this style of play too.
 
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