Quest Feedback: The Cetus Special

Do you want a modifiable DPS test dummy instance on live (vote cannot be changed)?


  • Total voters
    61

Titus Ovid

Mover and Shaker
SSG, please correct me, if I am wrong - I do this from memory - but I think a few of the official arguments are/were:
- any form of dps meter would discriminate players with low dps and result in finger pointing and excluding players from content. This happened in the myddo days already with just equipment.
- players shall play the content and not just test in one room (the game is more than just high dps output).
- SSG doesn't need that data for improving the game. So there is no benefit from SSG side.

I agree to point one. It already happens in a very small capacity. It would be worse, if there is an easy way to measure dps.
I don't have an opinion on point 2. You should play the game however you like it. If testing out is your passion by all means go and beat on a dummy for 12 hours.
I wholly disagree to point 3. Knowing the boundaries is one of the most important things in a project.

Cheers,
Titus
 

Tilomere

Well-known member
I'm 100% in favor of having two random raid bosses of increasing stats by CR to beat on immediately upon entering a challenge in a small room.

As long as they fight back appropriate to the CR the challenge is set at.

Those who study mechanics already have enough of an advantage over casual players without having a precise testing laboratory, but fighting Lolth at the edge of the LoB arena while also fighting the LoB himself would be glorious.
 
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Cetus

Well-known member
I'm 100% in favor of having two random raid bosses of increasing stats by CR to beat on immediately upon entering a challenge in a small room.

As long as they fight back appropriate to the CR the challenge is set at.

Those who study mechanics already have enough of an advantage over casual players without having a precise testing laboratory, but fighting Lolth at the edge of the LoB arena while also fighting the LoB himself would be glorious.
This is not the suggestion.
 

popejubal

Avatar of Jell-O
This is a very, very, VERY complicated game. We have:
  1. Bugs
  2. Active abilities
  3. Passive abilities
  4. Stances
  5. Strikes
  6. Multiclass splits
  7. Racial trees
  8. Heroic trees
  9. Destiny trees
  10. Reaper trees
  11. Various point spending strategies in all of them
  12. Feats
  13. Skills
  14. Item augments
  15. Weapon filigrees
  16. Crafting + dino bone augments
  17. Gear sets
  18. Gear in general
  19. Weapons
  20. Swaps
  21. Trances
  22. Potions
  23. Racial past lives
  24. Archetype past lives
  25. Heroic past lives
  26. Epic past lives
  27. Iconic past lives
  28. Spells
  29. Debuffs on enemies
  30. Guild buffs
  31. Rare weapon procs and guards
  32. DC's
  33. To-hit
  34. Fortification
  35. Dodge
  36. Spell resistance
  37. Saves
  38. Hitpoints
  39. MRR
  40. PRR
  41. Ability stats
**It is RIDICULOUS that we don't have a way to test our build ideas in a controlled environment on the live servers**

These ideas cost insane amounts of time, effort, patience, in-game resources, and sometimes money to test (four different kinds of hearts of wood, obtaining character experience, Otto's boxes of three different flavors, emptying TR caches (still horrible time sink), RELOADING F****** HOTBARS (yes this is especially enraging - hotbars need to remember their contents on reincarnation for crying out loud - but this is a separate topic of aneurysm bursting proportions), changing item filigrees, augments, and dino bone augments (using up insanely rare and expensive bonepickers, sentient tool kits, and jewelers tool kits).

Once this is finally done, it now becomes very difficult to find a way to test the builds DPS in a controlled, comparative way. Here we start brainstorming, running to random quests, and sitting for hours on the wiki in search for a potential suitable target.

Life is short folks...

Recently, I was hopeful that I found one (don't derail the thread by asking about this please), only to find out it's not part of the monster manual. NO WAY of seeing their HP, since there is significant HP variance instance to instance. We also do not have an export combat log option for manual damage addition throughout the course of the test. Just dead in the water here from every damn angle.

SOLUTION:

NEW QUEST: The Cetus Special (ML: I don't care)


Access: Exclusive access to owners of the next Ultimate Expansion bundle (gotta get paid right?)

Location: Tiny door at the very end of Bring me the Head of Ghola Fan! on casual.

Difficulty: Normal, R1 - R10

I would gladly DM narrate it for you for free - I have been told countless times throughout my life that I have a radio voice (including by Neil deGrasse Tyson! (yes, I met and conversed with him briefly)).
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

You select R1. You enter the quest; the loading screen mentions some outdated fact about the game from 15 years ago...
...
...
...
...
Well...the loading bar is partly blue now.
...
...
...
On my 7th pass reading this damn fact.
...
...
...

You barely load in, lagging as usual, stuttering and floating mid-air (it's a Sunday evening, afterall). No, it's not lag - Uranus must be in retrograde. No lag in DDO...

After about 7 minutes, your character seems to respond to basic commands and to your amazement you see...

An enemy! It can be a giant, a mindflayer... maybe a beholder?

GASP! THE LORD OF BLADES!!!

No, it's...

LOLTH!

Whatever, I don't care what the target is. The important thing is:

1. You can modify its hitpoints. I want to be able to create a target with 500,000 HP or a target with 5 million HP.
2. You can modify its fortification.
3. You can modify its AC.
4. You have instantly resetting shrines
5. You have an "epic moment shrine" - resets cooldown after shrining. Maximize testing and minimize waiting.


That's basically it. A room with a target and two shrines. Is this so much to ask for? I have other bells and whistles in mind, but this basic scaffold would be good enough for me.

Thanks for reading. Please leave 5 stars.
I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I would love to have this for myself and I want the people who are good at trying out builds to be able to reliably test what the build actually does. On the other hand, I know that this will cause hurt feelings when people discover just how far behind the curve they really are and we already have an absurd amount of bitterly jealous demands for nerfs on the forums.

My opinion would be no on the request except for one item that tips the scales - DDO has bunches of bugs and incorrect ability descriptions that make actual testing necessary in order to find out what your build actually does.

And if a DPS test dummy is added in a back room of a quest, I have one additional request - could we please get two dummies? One with 0 fortification and one with 100% fortification.
 

popejubal

Avatar of Jell-O
I would rather take a DPS meter with fully showcasing every party member's (pathetic) DPS after quest/raid to let people know they need to improve. Right now people are failing LH KT or FOM and pinning the blame on lag/ssg/bard etc. Jesus Christ.
A DPS meter where you get to see other people’s DPS is going to cause lots of drama. A test dummy with a player-set number of HP is much less likely to cause problems.
 

Cetus

Well-known member
I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I would love to have this for myself and I want the people who are good at trying out builds to be able to reliably test what the build actually does. On the other hand, I know that this will cause hurt feelings when people discover just how far behind the curve they really are and we already have an absurd amount of bitterly jealous demands for nerfs on the forums.

My opinion would be no on the request except for one item that tips the scales - DDO has bunches of bugs and incorrect ability descriptions that make actual testing necessary in order to find out what your build actually does.

And if a DPS test dummy is added in a back room of a quest, I have one additional request - could we please get two dummies? One with 0 fortification and one with 100% fortification.
Carl Sagan is my hero, and he said:

"Better by far to embrace the hard truth than a reassuring fable".

I fail to understand how ignorance can be preferable to knowledge.

There are three perspectives here:

1. If my performance significantly deviates from perception, I would want to know. Then, I would improve if it's bad. Better diagnostics lead to better treatments, if an issue is discovered and effective treatment is desired.

2. If a person happens to not care one way or another, then they simply won't spend time in this quest. No diagnostics, since no treatments are desired.

3. If a person will pout, shout and cry because they are doing worse than they thought. Well, I would recommend better parenting, as this is likely a child.
 

Sheikra

Well-known member
I think this idea would increase the disparity between hardcore and casual players.

This would likely help the upper echelon of players and have minimal effect on the rest of us normies.

Hardcore gamers would further refine their already very powerful builds, and would continue to only circulate their builds/ideas/etc very privately.

If we were in a place where people largely were more willing to share their secret sauce, I would be in favor of this, but as it is I see little benefit for myself or for the game as a whole. I wouldn't mind moving over the Lama Kobold(s), but would be against the larger project of developing the Cetus dungeon with all the customizations and such.
 

Mickeymouse

Well-known member
I think this idea would increase the disparity between hardcore and casual players.

This would likely help the upper echelon of players and have minimal effect on the rest of us normies.

Hardcore gamers would further refine their already very powerful builds, and would continue to only circulate their builds/ideas/etc very privately.

If we were in a place where people largely were more willing to share their secret sauce, I would be in favor of this, but as it is I see little benefit for myself or for the game as a whole. I wouldn't mind moving over the Lama Kobold(s), but would be against the larger project of developing the Cetus dungeon with all the customizations and such.
Most people who are normies don´t aim to be anything other than just that, and there is nothing wrong about that.

Also, new meta builds trickles down fairly fast in DDO i.e. the increase in warlock 1 splits on melee, 18/1/1 split. If I see something that just seem to rock I ask the player what makes it tick.. and people love to help other people especially if it gives em the chance to stroke their egos: reciprocal. :cool:
 

Sheikra

Well-known member
Most people who are normies don´t aim to be anything other than just that, and there is nothing wrong about that.

Also, new meta builds trickles down fairly fast in DDO i.e. the increase in warlock 1 splits on melee, 18/1/1 split. If I see something that just seem to rock I ask the player what makes it tick.. and people love to help other people especially if it gives em the chance to stroke their egos: reciprocal. :cool:
I have not had this experience. Everytime (ok most times not EVERY) that I ask someone about their build they get real quiet. Maybe I look like a dev or a narc or something lol.
 

Cetus

Well-known member
I think this idea would increase the disparity between hardcore and casual players.

This would likely help the upper echelon of players and have minimal effect on the rest of us normies.

Hardcore gamers would further refine their already very powerful builds, and would continue to only circulate their builds/ideas/etc very privately.

If we were in a place where people largely were more willing to share their secret sauce, I would be in favor of this, but as it is I see little benefit for myself or for the game as a whole. I wouldn't mind moving over the Lama Kobold(s), but would be against the larger project of developing the Cetus dungeon with all the customizations and such.
Privately? I have the opposite opinion. Most people are more than happy to help share information. I've publicly posted build breakdowns for many years.
 

Cetus

Well-known member
One advantage of this in a quest vs just a ship dummy in Cargo is that there are many active abilities that one cannot use in public areas (and hence training dummies on ships).
It would also allow you to do your testing in private, without somebody competing with you or messing with your results (as it happens on lamannia).
 

Altra

Well-known member
I NEED to see my spells on a training dummy!

Is this plus this better or worse than this plus this plus this? Because sometimes tooltips lie.

I still don't understand WHY I can't do this.
 

Brac

New member
So it seems the general argument against this, is it that it will hurt people's feelings who do low DPS? That is where the bar is set?

It hurts my feelings that this is not in game. Every time I think about it I am triggered. I have big feelings about this and cannot believe SSG has not already added it. It shows a lack of respect for all groups of people and the environment. Based on synergy, blockchain, and AI, please get to work. Your corporate social responsibility is at stake.
 

Pineapple

Active member
This sounds like a great idea. I would also like to see options similar to the dps golems in GW2. With the option to add a pulsing damage field around the dps target, with the option to customise amount and type of incoming damage.
 

popejubal

Avatar of Jell-O
I totally get why there isn’t a DPS meter in quests or a total-damage-dealt number in the quest report. I think there is even a case to be made for removing the kill count in quests.

But it would be really hard for Cetus’s proposal to lead to any hurt feelings or abuse in quests because it’s only in that private instance and you only go there if you decide you want to go there in a party with people who you want to go in with. This isn’t like MYDDO where it’s info that gets posted publicly whether you want your info posted or not.
 
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