Quest Packs That Should Be Free

[Mechgraber]

So with the "free to play" model, there's basically a theoretical pipeline from free to play minnow to "don't tell the wife about my DDO spending this month" whale.

You can dip your toe in the water without a huge financial investment, followed by either buying packs or going VIP and eventually getting to the point of addiction where you're sort of split between paying for your weekly grocery bill...or some more shiny astral shards to do some rerolls for that ultra rare 1 in 1600 shot at a Myth Drannor artifact that you'll TOTALLY pull soon and will make your character an entire .5% better.

New players typically do not buy frivolous BS like cosmetics or fancy mounts that cost little to make and have huge margins. You need to convert new players into old hands so that they start spending and keep spending.

And to do that, they have to stick around.

Trouble is...the new player experience is pretty bad right now. That's probably why there are almost none of them.

It really feels like there's just not very much content to run, and the F2P content that does exist...is so bad in terms of loot and xp/min that most established players aren't going to want to run it. Skimming down the list of free to play quests, past about level 5 I run almost none of them. So what little content that you have available in that sea of red obnoxious chalices is going to be literally impossible to get a group for. That's not an exaggeration, because as a new player you'll likely be doing normal or maybe hard. You're not going to find a group for casual "In the Demon's Den" or normal "Acid Wit" or hard "Faithful Departed".

Gross.

No one joins your lfms as they're the wrong content and the wrong difficulty, and they can smell the fact that you don't know what you're doing without even joining. From level 14 to 20 there are on average 2.2 quests per level that are free to play, and none besides the "Lords of Dust" chain are commonly run because they're trash xp.

Most don't get that far anyway.

In epics (20-29), there are less than 1 quest per level that are free to play...and ironically 4 of those 8 quests are...the "Lords of Dust" chain...again. Hope you like killing cultists and drow. Their souls are cleansed. Keep in mind new players still need the same amount of xp from 20-cap, unlike those on the TR train.

That is not a new player experience, that is pathetic and embarrassing.

This feels like a pressure sales tactic to get people to go VIP, but you haven't given enough of a taste of the product to get people to care. It's like giving people a whiff of the free samples instead of a taste, then trying to get them to buy a huge box. People just leave.

Would I recommend this game right now? Honestly, no. The "but it's free to play" line is a very hollow one at the moment. You get access to tiny amounts of outdated content that no one runs.

My recommendation is to release the following packs as free to play:

• The Lost Gatekeepers (bugged to be able to get into anyway, apparently, this just stops people having to /death to get out)
• The Catacombs (much needed epic content)
• The Seal of Shan-To-Kor (I honestly thought these were already free to play)
• Tangleroot Gorge (no access to reaper anyway, but some nostalgic vets might join)
• The Sharn Syndicate (go to for many when TRing for coin lord favor)
• The Necropolis Part 1 (people shouldn't be paying for this, cmon)
• Delera's Tomb (a classic, and again some much needed epic XP)
• Sorrowdusk Isle (no, I still won't run it with you but some might)
• The Ruins of Threnal (still might have difficulty finding a group...this pack needs a legendary version and a makeover)
• The Restless Isles (bin juice)
• The Necropolis Part 3 (enjoy the rats)
• The Devil's Gambit (often ran content at a much needed place)
• The Vale of Twilight (these have been out for like 20 years, right?)
• The Path of Inspiration (could totally see some vet running an iconic doing these for coin lord favor taking a new player under their wing)
• The Dreaming Dark (enough to solidify their unlikely friendship and get the newb to think about sticking around)
• Haunted Halls of Eveningstar (so weird having to pay for ONE QUEST...this could definitely make some new players fall in love with the game)

That would be a good start.

I think that's pretty conservative, and I doubt VIPs are going to drop because of that...VIPs are dropping for other reasons, but they wouldn't because a few old packs were released as free to play. The freebie code once a year gives out far more, but most people are not sold on the "oh they have a code you can use for nearly full access...you just have to wait 10 more months". Most of this content is a decade old or more anyway.

For a pretty good portion of the day today on Cannith there were zero LFMs. Not at level....zero total, 1-34. I see it more and more. The game is dying, everyone with a pulse can feel it, and being tightfisted with old content isn't the way to grow the game.

Fix the lag first, so that things can scale and new players aren't a burden, but after that I think it's time to focus on how to get more new players into the game, rather than exploitative strategies to milk the whales. That is not a long term business strategy.

 

[woq]

I'd add Gianthold, or price Gianthold very low. It's an appealing one, it has good experience just when you need it and it's friendly to lower power level characters. It is additionally very often run by old timers, which means it is easy to join groups for both in heroics and epics.

 

[dejvid]

if giving away old content for free is not on the table per se, then how about luring new players into spending by giving away only one pack at a time via a "battlepass"-type of system?

in lotro, we have the "legendary item reward track", ie a simple progression system that simply uses the earned exp you get from playing as a means to progress said track in order to get currency/items for your legendary items, with a few cosmetics sprinkled here and there.

what if ddo implements a similar system, uses the exp the players earn as progress for that reward track type of thing, and at the end of it, ie the big reward, is a one time code for one older pack? you incite players to buy a pack if they want to progress quicker. the milestone rewards on that track should be just minor things like platinum, some potions or wands, maybe one or two smaller store-items. add a characterbound bag halfway trough the track so that you incentivise players using another char for the next "season" if they want to have one of those, nothing major, but a nice quality of life for newlings.

now a new player has a pretty good incentive to play for at least a "season", get one pack for "free" that he then can use for the next season to have more content to run. lfm could be filled as new players want to get the bonus exp that groups have, maybe even sub for a month or two for more exp?

 

[mbartol]

Since the Free Quest code has been available several times, the common advice given to new players that try DDO is to wait until the next code is available (of course there’s no guarantee).

Also, the explosion of expansions under SSG compared to 2 during the decade prior, clearly shows the revenue is no longer focused on small Adventure Packs like it was under Turbine.

Personally, I’d either make all non-expansion quests free to play, or drop the price of Adventure Packs to nearly free permanently.

 

[Yeet]

Attracting, on-boarding and retaining new players is one of DDOs critical weaknesses. It's a genuine opportunity for growth that would have an immediate, positive impact on revenue. Why this hasn't been done is beyond any comprehension.

My assumption is, they don't want to make money.

 

[Elves United]

pretty much everything that is in the free quest code should be made free or made so cheap in DDO points that it is effectively free.
I'm seeing new players in G-Land and it is frustrating how many quests that have been around for a long time that they can't do.

 

[festasha]

A thread about ddofreequest has been put up before and I still believe new players should have the option to acquire these quests on a permanent basis for free via a welcome email upon creating their account, a tutorial of how to apply free codes and where to see the weekly codes for freebies should also be included in the welcome e-mail so new players will visit the forums and homepage to get regular updates of what is going on.

I also think that some quest should be gated as a teaching mechanism such as completing quest X will unlock quest X for the first time through (not every life just a one time) and this will help them learn leveling paths and gain useful favor ie Coinlords and house K.

 

[saekee]

That or put them all together into a single premium purchase pack for $5 and include some shared bank space, a single +5 tome, and a stack of xp boosts.

 

[Yeet]

Stop it with the common sense already!! We are making their marketing and sales team look bad with these basic, simple and effective ideas!

They've had the opportunity to do these things for years. Their lack of action and marketing are showing up now as reduced revenue. So much potential just being squandered because of what ... ? I've read the word 'pride' mentioned repeatedly on these forms. Honestly, I have no clue to why.

Over a decade of ideas on this forum, player comments, skilled ideas, carefully crafted insights ... and whatever. Player apathy is at an all time high.

I honestly think this game will close its doors if the devs don't change their ways. What they are doing isn't working. And they have a decade + track record of not listening nor changing. Instead, they insult the playerbase, gaslight us, and rip people off.

It's like driving a wagon and there's a cliff 1,000 miles that a-way ... we can easily avoid it. Then it's 500 miles, and 300, and 100 , and it gets down to just a few thousand feet away and there is time to turn that wagon around ...

And the driver simply won't listen nor care about the cliff. They press on, insisting there is no cliff. That you are an idiot for thinking there is a cliff. That the wagon is slow because of you. The only thing for the passengers to do is jump off that wagon.

And we see VIP cancelling and people giving their 'departure' feedback in droves lately.

 

[svenofnein]

That or put them all together into a single premium purchase pack for $5 and include some shared bank space, a single +5 tome, and a stack of xp boosts.

If I remember correctly, Evony had something like a $5 for $25 worth of stuff for new players. Was good enough that you would recommend it to everyone starting out (Evony, Free For Ever). Was good enough you'd start Alts to buy it for your main.

I'd throw a sentient gem, some sentient XP, some cosmetics, mounts, XP pots, Slayer Pots, etc. A bit of everything into a cheapo one time item aimed at new players, but enticing enough that everyone would have to consider it any time they started a new account/server/character.

 

[mbartol]

Bundle the free quest code with Elleri for as a Starter Pack

 

[Rage]

I think all the expansions and packs except for the latest 2 should be made free as a default setting.

 

[Nocti]

As someone who played on a free account for a few months before picking up the free code and spending some money, I can concur with most of the OPs comments.

My overriding memory of that time was hitting level 17 and pretty much repeating the LoD chain to 20. At which point I would look at the Epic quests available and decide TRing would be best. And so... would go back to the LoD chain to farm the 20 tokens needed for a TR.

Needless to say I got a bit bored at this time. However, when I picked up the freecode along with Sharn and RL, my interest soon perked up and remains perky to this day.

 

[Nahual]

All lvl 4 Free To Play quests on elite nets you 380 favor = 175 DDO Points which you can buy no adventure packs with. You need 500 favor to get the first pack for "free". I wouldn't think new players would go to other servers at this time to fatm DDO points. However they might consider signing up for VIP.

Your first month of signing up for VIP should give you a one time 4K DDO points. This means they could get one of the latests expansion packs, a couple of the old ones or many of the adventure packs.

Let people decide what to spend their DDO points on.

 

[Mechgraber]

As someone who played on a free account for a few months before picking up the free code and spending some money, I can concur with most of the OPs comments.

My overriding memory of that time was hitting level 17 and pretty much repeating the LoD chain to 20. At which point I would look at the Epic quests available and decide TRing would be best. And so... would go back to the LoD chain to farm the 20 tokens needed for a TR.

Needless to say I got a bit bored at this time. However, when I picked up the freecode along with Sharn and RL, my interest soon perked up and remains perky to this day.

Yes I played a F2P account many years ago in maybe 2010, and it was rough then. While there is more overall F2P content now (but not by much) there are fewer players and most don't do the F2P quests at all so you're stuck mostly soloing or LODing.

Attracting, on-boarding and retaining new players is one of DDOs critical weaknesses. It's a genuine opportunity for growth that would have an immediate, positive impact on revenue. Why this hasn't been done is beyond any comprehension.

My assumption is, they don't want to make money.

It's extremely shortsighted in my opinion, squeezing the minnows so they never become whales is no way to build the game, and hence, it's shrinking.

Also, the explosion of expansions under SSG compared to 2 during the decade prior, clearly shows the revenue is no longer focused on small Adventure Packs like it was under Turbine.

Yes those were my thoughts exactly...it's mostly VIP and expansion packs...but they aren't really giving enough to new players to have them stick around.

I'd also like to suggest letting everyone open elite/reaper difficulty life one. It's silly forcing people to do N/H/E and if someone is willing to farm favor for points I think we need to encourage them sticking around as much as possible. Maybe they don't "convert" immediately but eventually down the road they might have less time and more money, becoming a profitable customer long term.

 

[Eoin-1]

Any that are more than like 2 to 4 years old should be free. Maybe excluding the ones with raids. LOTRO got a lot of their packs included for free not that long ago.

I would also go the extra mile and for VIPs unlock the all but the 2 most recent expansions.

 

[Mechgraber]

Any that are more than like 2 to 4 years old should be free. Maybe excluding the ones with raids. LOTRO got a lot of their packs included for free not that long ago.

I would also go the extra mile and for VIPs unlock the all but the 2 most recent expansions.

Agree. It seems that they are trying to make "access to all packs" as the main benefit of VIP, while still trying to squeeze VIPs for expansions. But making "access to all packs" valuable means that they can't open up most packs to non VIP, which means new players really feel screwed or ignored, particularly when most F2P content is outdated and not ran.

It's a fairly tightfisted business model that long term doesn't work because new players rarely stick around...because they're not the focus. And they can feel it. It's being so busy cutting down trees for firewood that you forget to plant any seeds for the future.

 

[Denis Iron]

Maybe you just let them fixed all bugs after update u69? We cannot play 50% of time not free, not paid quests.

 

[erethizon1]

Any pack more than 5 years old should be put in the store for 25 store points. Buying things from the store is fun. Having to buy all these packs will keep people going back to the store and enjoying the thrill of buying something. Having each pack cost 25 points means they can afford a new one every time they get another 100 favor, which makes them feel like playing the pack they just got came with the reward of a new pack. This will keep people playing at least until they have purchased all the 25 point packs which will be more than enough to get them to 20 so they can TR and experience what the game is really about.

 

[kmoustakas]

So with the "free to play" model, there's basically a theoretical pipeline from free to play minnow to "don't tell the wife about my DDO spending this month" whale.

You can dip your toe in the water without a huge financial investment, followed by either buying packs or going VIP and eventually getting to the point of addiction where you're sort of split between paying for your weekly grocery bill...or some more shiny astral shards to do some rerolls for that ultra rare 1 in 1600 shot at a Myth Drannor artifact that you'll TOTALLY pull soon and will make your character an entire .5% better.

New players typically do not buy frivolous BS like cosmetics or fancy mounts that cost little to make and have huge margins. You need to convert new players into old hands so that they start spending and keep spending.

And to do that, they have to stick around.

Trouble is...the new player experience is pretty bad right now. That's probably why there are almost none of them.

It really feels like there's just not very much content to run, and the F2P content that does exist...is so bad in terms of loot and xp/min that most established players aren't going to want to run it. Skimming down the list of free to play quests, past about level 5 I run almost none of them. So what little content that you have available in that sea of red obnoxious chalices is going to be literally impossible to get a group for. That's not an exaggeration, because as a new player you'll likely be doing normal or maybe hard. You're not going to find a group for casual "In the Demon's Den" or normal "Acid Wit" or hard "Faithful Departed".

Gross.

No one joins your lfms as they're the wrong content and the wrong difficulty, and they can smell the fact that you don't know what you're doing without even joining. From level 14 to 20 there are on average 2.2 quests per level that are free to play, and none besides the "Lords of Dust" chain are commonly run because they're trash xp.

Most don't get that far anyway.

In epics (20-29), there are less than 1 quest per level that are free to play...and ironically 4 of those 8 quests are...the "Lords of Dust" chain...again. Hope you like killing cultists and drow. Their souls are cleansed. Keep in mind new players still need the same amount of xp from 20-cap, unlike those on the TR train.

That is not a new player experience, that is pathetic and embarrassing.

This feels like a pressure sales tactic to get people to go VIP, but you haven't given enough of a taste of the product to get people to care. It's like giving people a whiff of the free samples instead of a taste, then trying to get them to buy a huge box. People just leave.

Would I recommend this game right now? Honestly, no. The "but it's free to play" line is a very hollow one at the moment. You get access to tiny amounts of outdated content that no one runs.

My recommendation is to release the following packs as free to play:

• The Lost Gatekeepers (bugged to be able to get into anyway, apparently, this just stops people having to /death to get out)
• The Catacombs (much needed epic content)
• The Seal of Shan-To-Kor (I honestly thought these were already free to play)
• Tangleroot Gorge (no access to reaper anyway, but some nostalgic vets might join)
• The Sharn Syndicate (go to for many when TRing for coin lord favor)
• The Necropolis Part 1 (people shouldn't be paying for this, cmon)
• Delera's Tomb (a classic, and again some much needed epic XP)
• Sorrowdusk Isle (no, I still won't run it with you but some might)
• The Ruins of Threnal (still might have difficulty finding a group...this pack needs a legendary version and a makeover)
• The Restless Isles (bin juice)
• The Necropolis Part 3 (enjoy the rats)
• The Devil's Gambit (often ran content at a much needed place)
• The Vale of Twilight (these have been out for like 20 years, right?)
• The Path of Inspiration (could totally see some vet running an iconic doing these for coin lord favor taking a new player under their wing)
• The Dreaming Dark (enough to solidify their unlikely friendship and get the newb to think about sticking around)
• Haunted Halls of Eveningstar (so weird having to pay for ONE QUEST...this could definitely make some new players fall in love with the game)

That would be a good start.

I think that's pretty conservative, and I doubt VIPs are going to drop because of that...VIPs are dropping for other reasons, but they wouldn't because a few old packs were released as free to play. The freebie code once a year gives out far more, but most people are not sold on the "oh they have a code you can use for nearly full access...you just have to wait 10 more months". Most of this content is a decade old or more anyway.

For a pretty good portion of the day today on Cannith there were zero LFMs. Not at level....zero total, 1-34. I see it more and more. The game is dying, everyone with a pulse can feel it, and being tightfisted with old content isn't the way to grow the game.

Fix the lag first, so that things can scale and new players aren't a burden, but after that I think it's time to focus on how to get more new players into the game, rather than exploitative strategies to milk the whales. That is not a long term business strategy.

I bet half the new players that decide to try this game get either the installation bug or the direct x bug and go nah